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prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
What is the job market like for junior web developers these days? Is it still hot? My wife makes good money in marketing but she works bullshit hours and spends way too much time in meetings and now that we're both WFH she's looking at my lifestyle as a software developer and thinking about making a change. I haven't been a newbie in a long time though so I have no idea what she could expect after re-training.

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prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

teen phone cutie posted:

~10 hour interview process.

jesus christ

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
"Nobody wants to work!"

I'm never leaving my job

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Vincent Valentine posted:

The HR rep at that particular company said they had six people reach final round interviews

That's so loving rude and entitled to string that many people along for that long.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I think if you change

code:
console.log(`Listening on port ${port}..`)
to

code:
console.log(`Listening on port`, port)


you'll be able to see if port is a number or a string. Not to throw another layer of difficulty at you but this is why Typescript rocks.


wilderthanmild posted:

I really hate that bit of javascript logic. Why do that when the null coalescing operator(??) exists?

Javascript has a null-ish coalescing operator (lol) but it's relatively new. Ruby treats || the same way Javascript does as well, maybe some other languages too.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

I will never understand people who prefer JS to Python or even Powershell for scripting, JS has the weirdest ways to do types and operators

It's just comfort. I know JavaScript is wildly flawed but I also write JavaScript all day, so if I need to quickly do anything it's the tool I reach for.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

That makes sense. I didn't touch even touch JS until I was already very fluent with Python and dabbled with Powershell, C and Go. A lot of people start with JS.

Yeah my two strongest languages are Typescript and Ruby, with Swift in probably a distant third. Never worked with Python, Powershell, C, or Go. I've had a long career but it's mostly doing a lot of the same stuff. I've been "meaning to learn Python" for like 12 years.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Python is still an embarrassingly primitive language compared to Ruby, but it has a couple of things going for it:

Python finally added match statements (switch/case/when/etc), which was (in my opinion) its last major lacking feature, so it's a bit more reasonable than it used to be.

The ecosystem around Python has really developed over the past couple decades. Some Python libraries rival core Python itself in terms of scope. Pandas, for example, even reimplements a lot of Python's built-in functions that operate on iterators to operate on Series and DataFrames, but does so in a sane way.

If you're familiar with Ruby, Python isn't difficult to pick up. Follow the tutorial to get like 80% of it. That said, I still prefer writing core Ruby to core Python when I have the option, but I can't really deny that the ecosystem around Python is invaluable.

Python has actually pretty much dropped off my to-learn list. Since picking up Typescript I really only want to work with languages that have a good typing system. I still work with Ruby because I have to but my love for that language is long gone. Swift is cool but I find its type system leaves a lot to be desired. I love Typescript's union types and type narrowing and all the utility types like Pick and Omit. It really turns JS into a great language. If I was going to learn another language I'd maybe pick Go?

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

JawnV6 posted:

That sounds backwards to me. How do you find problems that fit your languages feature set?

Python's great as a stepping stone up from cmd line grep/sed/awk lines into something slightly more formal. Are you ever looking at a text-munging problem and dreaming up the type signatures instead of just.. like.. bashing the letters around?

I didn't realize we were just talking about scripting. I mainly make real big web applications.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

keep punching joe posted:

Yeah, but it wasn't throwing up any errors (maybe I'm using the debugger incorrectly though).

There's going to be a lot of cases where your code doesn't throw errors, but it also doesn't do what you want it to. Those are times where you want to use the debugger to figure out what's going on. Like New Yorp said, it would be a good idea to inspect the query that's being generated, or inspect the values that are coming in from req.body to see if they're what you expect.

A huge part of coding is solving problems just like this and all you really have to do is break things down into pieces to see where something is going wrong. The thing you're trying to accomplish (send a PUT request to update the db) is made up of a bunch of tiny steps, so you just kinda have to verify that each step is working until you find the one that isn't.

1. Is the browser actually sending the request?
2. Is my app receiving the request where I expect it and firing the function?
3. Are the values I'm pulling from the request what I expect them to be?
4. Is the query that's being sent to the db correct?

In this case I'm not even sure if it's possible to inspect the query from within your node app so you might've needed to open up the MariaDB query log to see that your code was trying to update a record where the id was equal to the value you sent for subgenre.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
"Won't admit they don't know something" is a huge red flag. All the best programmers I've known are outspoken about how they don't know anything

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Only you can really tell how much that pay cut will actually affect your quality of life. I'd figure out what the after tax difference is, divide it by either 12 or 26 depending on how you do your budgeting, and figure out how having that much less would change your life and if it's worth it.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
If I was young and unattached I would absolutely do the crazy 1bd thing in a loud crazy city. I kind of regret not ever doing it. But I don't regret buying a house at 22 for under $200k since I'm now a paper millionaire thanks to exceptionally bad housing policy.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Hadlock posted:

There are pros and cons to both

Some important pre pandemic points for cities

Much larger, deeper, higher quality dating pool
Even in medium size cities you can mostly give up using a car for daily errands (keep the car for trips tho)
Number of social activities higher
Typically younger, more liberal population, more traveled
Typically much better educated. Since I moved out of the city the only person I've met with a PhD was an actual doctor at the hospital
Professional network easier to grow. You aren't going to go to a free beer and pizza tech talk after work and trade business cards at a rodeo or dirt track race

Can you "fix" some of these problems living in the country with starlink, WFH and technology? Probably, lot of work

Of all these I have to say my dating life changed a lot moving to the city. Like, zero to 100 a lot. Most every girl I talked to had a master's of something, or were running their own business start up. You're not going to see that very often in rural Iowa. They had stuff going on they weren't just looking to get their Mrs. Degree

As the other guy mentioned, it's a lot harder to move to the city when you're old and established. It's also really hard to go from 2 acres and 3000 sq ft mcmansion with garage to a 1200 sq ft 2/2 apartment and street parking

I'm in the suburbs now with a toddler, but I really miss living in the city, downtown especially, walking to get groceries. I can still walk to the corner store five blocks away and they have milk and bread and fruit (and beer) but still have to get in the car once a week to stock up on meat, tortillas, etc but it's not the same

Don't you guys have like 50 decent sized cities in the US though? It's not like you have a binary choice between living in SF/NYC or living in the boonies.

Your fixation on degrees is kinda weird. My wife only has her bachelors and I dropped out. We mostly communicate in grunts and shrieks while grooming the lice off one another.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Smugworth posted:

what's it like running a hot dog shack in reform, alabama?

God I wish. I live in Canada so my options are Toronto, Vancouver, or learning French.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
get that paper

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Recession-wise it's good if you don't work for bubble companies. If your company's main source of income is fleecing VCs while burning money you'll probably want to brush up your resume. That's not to say that real companies can't get hit with a recession too but the companies that are running on farts instead of an actual business model are usually the first ones to get hit.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
The only way I'd suggest a degree is if your aspirations are higher than making six figgies to write code for some company and if you don't have to go into debt to get it.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Plorkyeran posted:

A nontrivial portion of my "teaching junior coworkers things" time is spent on things which I learned in my CS program.

This is just an argument for not getting a degree since you paid to learn that stuff and they got paid to learn it :v:

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Plorkyeran posted:

Yes, that's what I said?

Oh yeah I totally misread your post, whoops

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

bigperm posted:

Finally heard back from this place. They don't have to money to hire me apparently so :smith:

Sounds like a poo poo show if they let the hiring process get that far before realizing "oh right we have to pay people"

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Being a lead front end person is fun because building interfaces is fun. Building api integrations is boring.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

redleader posted:

all the fiddly, mind numbing poo poo you have to do to make a smooth, polished interface? gently caress all that tbh

no it's fun actually

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I don't mind back-end programming but gently caress devops/infra stuff. Opening the AWS console makes me want to die.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Harriet Carker posted:

:cry:

I’m a front end dev on the AWS console home page haha.

I guess you mean more actually using AWS services than a specific problem with the console?

Yeah it's not that I hate the console in particular, I think it does the best it can with the job it has. I just hate messing with dev ops stuff and AWS is really complicated. Definitely can't blame the front end team for how Amazon structures its offering. It's more that when I open the console it means I'm about to spend an hour or two staring at poo poo that I don't understand and don't particularly want to understand.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Daviclond posted:

If you're manually maintaining infra on your cloud provider's console you're doing it wrong. Learn infra-as-code and use terraform, life will be better. You will still occasionally lose half a day to random bullshit, but it will be way better.

I also hate terraform. I just don't like doing devops but I always work at tiny companies and so I end up having to do it. I like wearing a lot of hats, just not that one.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Hadlock posted:

I'm glad you guys don't like doing devops, I'll keep cashing those paychecks

What's your consulting fee?

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Use supabase for your back-end and deploy on something like Render.com/Vercel/Fly.io/Railway

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Flea Bargain posted:

I'm mid-30s and I've just started my bachelors of Computer Science. My goal is basically to be a wfh computer toucher earning 6 figs, my question is basically whether I should invest 3 years into a Computer Science degree with all the costs involved (loans in Australia are only paid back once you're earning over a certain amount) but the time is obviously very valuable, or should I do a bootcamp and start applying for jobs right away. Would a CS degree open doors for me that experience wouldn't at say, 5 years into the bootcamp pathway vs the 3+2 of the CS path? I don't have a degree already. Is there a cap on income without a CS degree? I've asked this in the careers thread, and it was suggested I ask in yospos but I couldn't find an appropriate thread.

Can you find anything in between? I have a friend who's going through a two year program right now, I think it awards a diploma or a certificate at that end. The program is at a college (here in Canada what Americans call college we call university and then colleges are where you go to learn more applied skills.)

I've been tutoring my friend a fair bit to help him keep up with the material and overall it does seem like a good program. They're moving fast but they're covering lots of relevant technologies. They started with HTML and CSS, then programming basics in Javascript, then vanilla JS for DOM manipulation, then JS on the server with Node. Now they're getting into databases, front-end frameworks, object-oriented programming. I think next year they do some native app development with Swift and Java. There's been a couple of decisions I don't agree with, for example teaching MongoDB instead of a relational database system, but overall the curriculum seems really relevant and he'll be done after 2 years having laid out way less tuition than what a full degree would cost.

I don't have a CS degree and I haven't yet found it limiting in terms of jobs but I also haven't tried to work at the kind of places that might require it. I also started working in the industry when I was 19 or 20 freelancing for $20/hr so I have a lot of experience. I also do have some gaps in my knowledge when it comes to lower level things like data structures and algorithms, but I think that's something I can make up for with self-study if I ever want to land the kind of job that involves that type of coding interview.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I just want to add that as a non-degree holder I often feel like the dumbest guy in the SA programming threads. That said I still make six figgies so yknow, whatever.

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prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
You should learn scrum so that you can easily recognize and avoid it.

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