AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

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Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

wipeout posted:

Much more interested in K12 being a killer chip these days - at least they might stand a chance long term in the ARM market.

It also might be their future if any buyout happens (most likely from Samsung)

# ¿ Aug 15, 2015 14:44

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 22:32

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

This is pretty much the most important part of the equation. They have to at least put something out that squishes the low-TDP i3/i5 mobile chips in terms of features and performance at the same power envelope, and it's something the laptop market is in need of if we want actual build quality in the 600-700 dollar price range.

This has a slim chance of happening, of course, but it's pretty much their only clear shot at getting as much as they wish for out of Zen.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Aug 15, 2015

# ¿ Aug 15, 2015 20:01

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

HalloKitty posted:

But didn't they actually do that already with Carrizo? (An actual laptop with the second highest Carrizo in).

It even has hardware x265 decoding which can push out 3840�2160 60 FPS video.

But almost nobody is building laptops with them. There's probably no chance you'll see them in a decent laptop, either, because Intel has the higher end brand image.

It's still not quite the foot-in-the-door product which would be something significantly faster in either graphics or processing power at a much better cost or same power envelope, plus the inertia of lovely contract stipulations Intel had for several years is still in effect, as you said.

Part of the problem is with the OEMs themselves, as well. The ultrabook craze has made everyone throw build quality out the window in favor of using putty-plastic that bends at will for the sake of losing a quarter of an inch in thickness. Plus everyone wants an i3 or better and i3 mobile chips cost twice as much as i3 desktop chips :suicide:

and thus you have keyboards and trackpads that stop being operational and responsive at anything beyond the slightest touch at the SKU price people actually buy, aka 600-700 dollars. Something is wrong when Chromebooks are sturdier than those.

Tangential, but I'd like to be able to build ECC-equipped PCs again without paying the $150-200 Intel Xeon chipset and CPU premium. At least I finally built a $1500 computer without being ashamed of it.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Aug 15, 2015

# ¿ Aug 15, 2015 20:35

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

So what your saying is that for the same price, carrizzo laptops could have superior build quality?

That is correct. 100-150 dollars less could have them use actual sturdy lightweight plastic, an actual screen instead of 1366x768, and still maintain a profit margin.

Unfortunately they'd rather put them on 400 dollar SKUs with one channel RAM which effectively halves the graphics power on those things.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2015 22:10

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

fudzilla is in a constant race with wccftech in how many things wrong they can get

so not very

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 14:50

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3348051&pagenumber=204#post450385662

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 19:52

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

sauer kraut posted:

His work is already done, I guess he could have stuck around to collect paycheques for 5 years to do minor revisions if he didn't have anything better to do.

If you've seen his work history that seems like something he'd only do when he gets alzheimers

# ¿ Sep 18, 2015 19:56

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

It's apparently more than that. Rumor is, Jim Keller was brought in due to his expertise with ARM while at Apple, hence why K12 was called K12. It's possible AMD dropped K12 entirely, and Jim had no reason to stay. So AMD dropped what was likely going to be an extremely compelling ARM chip likely due to financial reasons, and it's unknown if they'll ever pick it back up because Lisa Su is way more interested in the HPC, custom and semi-custom environments than mobile, which is dumb because mobile is what matters. The only way it makes sense is if AMD believes Zen would be better for mobile solutions anyway.

This is contradicted by the fact that AMD still has several ARM design wins and still hasn't dropped embedded ARM servers, so if Keller just idles for 2016 and is suddenly an AMD employee again in a revived AMD for 2017 then I guess K12?

They could also have finished principal ARM design by 2014 but held off on producing that and taping it out due to limited funds and the fact that mobile chips are a really hard market to break into (having a good product and not being able to sell it just leads to Apple or Samsung buying you out when it didn't pan out, as what happened to another one of Jim Keller's old projects with ARM.)

Carrizo scales down to 12w not losing very much performance, I'm pretty sure AMD can pull off a single/dual core Zen part that uses about that much for mobile chips, possibly punting the i3 out of range.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 19, 2015

# ¿ Sep 19, 2015 16:20

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Popehoist posted:

I run a 9370 setup that I only went for because I got Motherboard/CPU for �200 total, as an upgrade to my i5 2500k.

quote:

upgrade to my i5 2500k.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2015 18:32

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

The only time you'd actually get an i5 to do that is if you try to bring any Haswell up to 5ghz and it's more likely you fry the CPU than the PSU in that case

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 14:25

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Seriously, I'd spring for :AMD:, but let's face it, there's always the chance that the company doesn't survive 2015.

Well, at current fund usage they have until late 2017 to land a hit of some sort before getting unceremoniously bought out. I'm gonna peg on the LGA Opteron line not arriving until 2017, while we get a rampup of standard desktop Zen chips Q3-Q4 next year.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2015 23:36

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Carrizo chips have a few encryption and prosumer security features Intel refuses to put in their non-i7 non-ULV mobile lines (until the recent introduction of mobile Xeon) so there's that.

Not sure if your company is actually using those though!!!

# ¿ Sep 26, 2015 14:51

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

KinkyJohn posted:

I am all for AMD getting back in the game. Competition and choices are awesome!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 11:52

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Nystral posted:

He should be mildly hopeful this isn't a complete dumpster fire of a product?

That's much better.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 15:50

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

JawnV6 posted:

A return to their roots, cool.

full circle :byodood:

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 23:24

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

And then there's talk about how Intel is going to finally push people to eight full cores, instead of 4 with SMT.

Flagship Zen on AM4 is going to be 8 core parts.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 05:54

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

And that might be enough, it might not. But when Intel says they're going to push people to 8 cores, that probably means everything from i5 and up.

Is just flagship Zen being 8 cores enough? I don't know.

With how AMD bins things it is very likely that we get 2/4/6/8 core parts.

And Intel is pushing for 4/6/8 cores in their Cannonlake platform, which isn't until late 2017. It's probably a response to how AMD may be releasing actual 8-core processors for mainstream desktops with Zen, as well as how single core performance has basically plateaued since Sandy Bridge and the only real way to scale now is outwards, like ARM.

canyoneer posted:

I would be very surprised if they could sell them at that price and have enough margin left to keep the lights on.

I would peg the 4 core+HT Zen units at i5 prices ($200-240), really. That would be a good margin and a competitive feature set (if only for SMT since people who buy home desktop processors rarely care about the virtualization/encryption things AMD packs in everything) if it just trails slightly behind Intel's offerings in single thread speed.

Don Lapre posted:

The 9590 launched at a hilarious $800

It was originally going to be OEM only at that price, but then there was actual demand for such a thing.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 6, 2015

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 09:15

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Boiled Water posted:

They would also be super good for modelling if it wasn't for the power draw. It's essentially the difference between a workstation sounding like a hurricane and a whisper.

The Vishera-based LGA server parts were actually very efficient. Which makes sense, because the architecture was designed for servers.

A Bad King posted:

We need to change the tag line.

Carrizo is actually good, just OEM inertia means it wasn't purchased by anybody. :eng99:

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Oct 7, 2015

# ¿ Oct 7, 2015 14:02

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

WhyteRyce posted:

Jim Keller immediately gets picked up by Samsung. So either he is a ronin moving from company to company working on only things that interest him or he jumped off a sinking ship. Only one of these two things, there is no other explanation

The former, since there's only so much Samsung can squeeze out of Exynos right now and the solution surprisingly isn't packing even more cores.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2015 00:55

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

2018, Jim Keller leaves Samsung to join Qualcomm

# ¿ Oct 27, 2015 00:58

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Malcolm XML posted:

yeah more than likely he finished up whatever he needed to do at AMD and then samsung showed him a giant pile of cash and marketable securities along with leading edge process tech and a huge profitable company backing him

That didn't work when Intel tried that

# ¿ Oct 28, 2015 01:07

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Ragingsheep posted:

Someone is suing AMD over Bulldozer.

http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510646458-amd-faces-suit-over-alleged-misrepresentation-of-new-cpu

fishing for settlements

# ¿ Nov 5, 2015 22:28

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

So AMD might have some mixed 16nm and 14nm products? I thought both were effectively 20nm but FinFet so what's the design advantage for choosing one over the other?

Also Oh god the new default avatar is horrifying what the hell admins.

from the apple a9 chip comparisons, 16nm tsmc is more efficient, 14nm can afford to run hotter and uses less die size

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 02:02

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Twerk from Home posted:

Man, Carrizo looks like a legitimate i3 competitor, but it really seems like you can only get it in laptops that are enormous pieces of poo poo. Whens the last time that Thinkpad T / X had AMD options? Or anything like an XPS 13? A Carrizo laptop with good build quality would actually be a valid option, but none seem to exist.

With the kind of people and organizations who buy laptops in bulk (read: Atom-based *Trail SKUs by the boatloads) I honestly think it's the fault of the OEMs for buying into their own myth that only Intel has performance better than potatoes at this point.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2015 19:34

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Phenom Z/Athlon Z branding please

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 20:14

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

if you're making an 8 core processor as your flagship part, it's much less hell to retailers and vendors to bin by twos instead of having 8 separate product stacks for odd numbers of cores eating poo poo.

Intel just doesn't sell the odd number of bum-cores out of the quad core chips in the first place (actually I think they stopped selling anything with bum cores since Ivy Bridge) and instead processes them for recycling, but AMD has to play fast and loose.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 4, 2015

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 01:41

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

Also, some iGPU less versions apparently, so looks like it might be the last hurrah of "Performance CMT" and with those power targets it wouldn't surprise me to see FX-9000 series performance under 150W. Still not great but at least not bugfuck insane if priced right.

i really hope they go with the "z" branding for athlon chips or else there'll be a similar clusterfuck to pentium/celeron mainline vs. atom-trail where there's a Zen Athlon 4300 and CMT Athlon 960k or something :ohdear:

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 02:13

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

GrizzlyCow posted:

It's a Carrizo-L, a continuation of the Puma+, processor. It's better than Intel's Atom-based poo poo in terms of performance. On the downside, it has twice the TDP. Notebookcheck did a little review of it. I wouldn't recommend it if you can get an ULV i-core notebook or tablet instead.

carrizo-l is actually configurable to 15w tdp, and every oem does that. you could unclamp it to the full 35w but you don't get a whole lot more out of doing so.

even at the 15w lock the performance in most things is comparable to an i3-u and is 33% cheaper per unit than the i3

intel's not always an unambiguous choice at the low end.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 03:29

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2457025

how is it that many people don't understand what the tapeout process means

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 05:02

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

imagine a room, full of fishmechs

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 05:08

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

pretty sweet opterons tho

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 24, 2015

# ¿ Dec 24, 2015 01:43

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Jago posted:

To evaluate the relative performance between chips.

The market of "enthusiast x86/64 processors" is not something we are going to make a difference in by buying inferior products.

yeah the stuff that sells in lots of millions are server chips and laptop chips

the implication here being that the CMT method also lost out to intel in high performance workspaces, and AMD's never had much of a foothold in laptops due to market inertia and probably never will unless they can outpace intel in both features and performance at the same price and power bracket

poo poo's fairly rough

# ¿ Dec 24, 2015 18:27

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

http://www.overclock3d.net/articles/cpu_mainboard/amd_have_revealed_their_new_wraith_cpu_stock_cooler/1

quote:

Let's hope that this change in CPU cooler design has not been prompted by how hot their new Zen CPU cores run as we certainly do not want another Volcano CPU from AMD, especially given how cool Intel CPUs run these days.

So, basically as hot as FX-E chips run, then.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 16:43

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

I'm not sure AMD is operating on the same consumer disregard tier as Intel though

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:22

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Don Lapre posted:

Amd doesn't have performance parts to not ship heatsinks with.

Opterons didn't come with heatsinks for a while

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:23

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Is there *any* reason why you would want to use a non-Zen product once they become available?

I can see Carrizo getting some attention when making $250 pcs the same way the G3258 and AM1 did 1.5 years ago.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 22:05

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

I like how there's three pictures of the Intel LGA version of that board in that article, including the one you're showing right now.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2016 14:21

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

read: new makes of A88/A970 chipsets

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 11:19

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

It's not like it's a particularly hard target to hit, performance ceiling has pretty much hit a slight incline the last 5 years.

The more interesting part is whether the architecture will scale to low power consumption per-core (and thus be competitive in servers and laptops), which AMD has already demonstrated they can do quite well with the loving construction core architecture in Vishera Opteron and Carrizo.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 19:23

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 22:32

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/01/15/windows-10-embracing-silicon-innovation/

Straight from the horse's mouth

If they really wanted people not to upgrade to new hardware they could have just said so :v:

# ¿ Jan 16, 2016 14:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

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