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VikingSkull posted:What I took from it is the US has these two specific horrible examples of abuse while Russia and China lay claim to the rest. Sure, the US support of South Africa and Israel was and is atrocious, but it kinda pales in comparison to the things Russia and China have vetoed. The genocide of the Palestinian people is pretty atrocious. We just vetoed the resolution on condemning the settlements in the West Bank. gently caress you Obama. http://www.undispatch.com/israel-security-council-bahrain http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/bahrain/8334771/Bahrain-royal-family-orders-army-to-turn-on-the-people.html It is no big surprise that Bahrain is ordering the soldiers to fire at civilians. It will be very interesting to see what happens there. A regime change could have major impacts on the 5th Fleet. That is a major foothold for the US on the region.
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Feb 18, 2011 22:31
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Apology posted:afaik there is no way to contribute financially, sorry. Donating to Amnesty or MSF/Doctors Without Borders is always a good thing. It might not go to this particular cause, but it will always go to a good cause. I don't think these protesters are short on medical treatment or food. They just need a government that doesn't shoot them.
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Feb 18, 2011 22:53
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I suppose you could donate to Amnesty International or something, or you could wait until the protests are over, when I'm sure a bunch of charities will begin to help with rebuilding what's been damaged or destroyed.
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Narmi posted:Reading this just made me angrier and angrier. The sheer hypocrisy and stupidity of that ambassador's statement sickens me. They reject the settlements in the strongest terms but won't call them illegal? They claim to have invested the most in Israeli-Palestinian peace, but have nothing to show for it and refuse to try anything new. Don't worry, we are still taking a hard stance against them in other aspects... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703321004575427272550050504.html Oh, wait. No, we are training for war with them. Well, maybe our Republican friends will be a bit harder on Israel with this whole small government and staying out of foreign affairs. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49750.html Welp, guess we are screwed.
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Feb 18, 2011 23:39
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Nonsense posted:To be frank, I don't even want military ground forces storming the shores of Tripoli or whatever, it just would have been nice to place a no fly zone, so the maniac can't send bombers and helicopters to buzz around and zap people expressing their displeasure with his existence. You know the Marines are itching to storm Tripoli again. It is in their official song even. It will be like good old times. Marines' Hymn posted:From the Halls of Montezuma,
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Feb 23, 2011 00:23
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wildmamboqueen posted:No, he was crazy. I watched the whole thing on AJE, and quite frankly, he was nuts. I was honestly amazed how they could seriously discuss his speech after the fact. I think my commentary would have been "He is loving crazy" and nothing more. He was rambling about all sorts of stuff, and clearly desperate at this point.
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Feb 23, 2011 00:46
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breaklaw posted:To be fair to the President, he has a good point. By events I assume he means the protests and overthrowing of dictators. The evil dictators... well those are actually the fault of the US and other foreign powers.
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Feb 23, 2011 23:25
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/inside-libya-banghazi-jubilation Great article from the Guardian from the first foreign journalist that made it into Benghazi. From the article, it sounds like the protesters are getting a lot of weapons from defecting military.
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Feb 24, 2011 00:28
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Apology posted:Don't count Iraq out of the protest business as of yet: I'm not gonna lie. I was thinking about how the revolutions in the region will change travel. I have always had a desire to visit the Middle East, and these changes will make it easier. I hope this opens the doors for more Americans to travel there as well. I think it will be good for American to see what the region is really like and gain a better understanding for their fellow human beings. From what I have heard, most of the population of the region is very happy to show an American their culture if the American(or any Western person) is willing to experience it. I do agree that it would probably be a good idea to let things settle down for a bit first.
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Feb 24, 2011 03:53
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Al-Saqr posted:Aljazeera reporting that anti-Qaddafi protesters are planning on trying to liberate Tripoli by force through Zawiya, it's not clear whether they will be using the weapons taken from the army. That is encouraging. It sounds like this might be over sooner that people expected. Hopefully with less bloodshed as well. edit: Just saw this on Twitter posted by Sherine Tadros of Al Jazeera quote:Al jazeera arabic; Officers in the Air Force base in Benghazi, announced they are joining the revolution #libya DevNull fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 24, 2011 |
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Feb 24, 2011 16:56
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:You know I really wanted to make a joke about blowing up a pile of previously murdered corpses but dang That is way too much effort. He would just round up a few living people and blow them up. It makes it more authentic that way too.
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Feb 24, 2011 18:12
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http://www.cnbc.com/id/41754177 Interesting article about a cable leaked by wikileaks on Libya stashing money in US banks. $32 billion in cash hidden away from the people by a dictator. I can't imagine why they are sick of him.
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Feb 24, 2011 18:41
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breaklaw posted:drat, could it be over already? Someone probably read about Suleiman being shot at and the rumor just snowballed into Gaddafi being dead. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201122410395823677.html
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Feb 24, 2011 21:55
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Chade Johnson posted:Iran won't revolt. In fact, Iran stands to gain a lot from the recent upheavals, certainly more than the US. The Green protesters have even less support than they did in 2009. It's time to engage with Iran, not engage in wishful thinking that the regime will fall. I seem to remember you being one of the guys that was very pro-Israel and anti-Islamic/anti-Iran. edit: Oh you have a history of fear mongering over Iran Chade Johnson posted:Congrats protesters. They didn't protest for anything beyond outbursts against corruption and privation. Now there will be either a military dictatorship or Iranian satellite state. Either way the people of Egypt are screwed. DevNull fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Feb 24, 2011 |
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Feb 24, 2011 23:13
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Rkelly posted:I would bet Of course the CIA has agents in Libya. It is naive to assume that they would be helping the rebellion though.
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Feb 25, 2011 16:39
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the cia is shaping certain things to "cause" things like that.
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cioxx posted:What makes you say that? Why would CIA bet on a losing horse? They probably wouldn't support Gaddafi, but that wouldn't mean they would support anyone trying to topple him. The CIA has a history of doing all that it can to build governments that are in step with the US economy and government. There is nothing to suggest that the downfall of Gaddafi will bring in a government that is more sympathetic to the US. Chade Johnson posted:Those who have predicted the fall of the Islamic Republic have been proven wrong time and time again. Iran has gained a lot from the invasion of Iraq, and stands to gain even more with the fall of US client states throughout the region. A year ago, no one would have guess that the governments of Tunis or Egypt would fall. Just because a lot of people have incorrectly predicted the fall of the government in Iran, doesn't mean it can't happen now. I agree that Iran gained a lot though the invasion of Iraq. The biggest client state falling that would give power to Iran is actually Israel. The complete fall of Libya and Gaddafi will actually encourage the people of Iran to rise up against the leadership of Iran. The fall of Tunis and Egypt has already emboldened a lot of Iranians. Even though they are not Arabs, they are inspired by the courage of other Islamic nations.
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Feb 25, 2011 17:47
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Lareous posted:It's becoming my favorite news source right up there with the BBC. I have said it before, but over the past few years a lot of great journalists have been leaving BBC for AJE. BBC is still good, but AJE is amazing. Fault Lines is a really good show that is hosted by Josh Rushing, a prior Marine press officer.
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Feb 25, 2011 18:21
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http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/24/reflections_on_the_revolutions_in_tunisia_and_egypt I saw this article posted on twitter and though I would share it. It is a pretty good overview of the events in Tunis and Egypt and some of the impact. It also address obstacles that must still be overcome. It is written by Palestinian-American Rashid Khalidi. He is the Edward Said professor of Arab studies at Columbia University. Edward Said was a Palestinian-American author and professor at Columbia. Both are incredible authors, and I suggest any of their books if you are interested in learning about the Middle East. Be warned though, Edward Said's book Orientalism is a fairly difficult read.
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Feb 25, 2011 18:41
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SERPUS posted:I'm not trying to troll or derail, but in the past week or so I swear I've seen a dozen different spellings of "Qadhafi". Most amusing to me was "Khadafi", the /kh/ sound isn't even close. Obviously the best way to avoid this is simply spell it correctly. معمر القذافي
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Feb 25, 2011 20:20
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Talk about great timing and taking advantage of an opportunity. What better time than now to travel the Middle East and sell arms to oppressive regimes! http://english.aljazeera.net//news/europe/2011/02/201122518383717298.html
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Feb 25, 2011 20:41
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Sivias posted:I'm not saying the UN should intervene with boots on the ground, per say. I'm just trying to understand the definition. It doesn't actually even taking killing people to be considered genocide. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide posted:imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
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Feb 25, 2011 21:48
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Jut posted:Enough with the drama, his mustard gas reserves were destroyed years ago, now you're treading into the "BUT HE STILL HAS WMD!!!1" territory that bush used to justify going into iraq (whoops didn't find any!). You are just being a dick and not making any sense while doing so. You argument boils down to a mixture of "war is hell" and "deal with it" while exaggerating what he is saying. What is happening is not just civil war. Civil war can be militaries fighting each other without murdering the rest of the population. This actions taking place could easily fall into the category of crimes against humanity.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:24
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:Keep in mind the whole Rwanda thing went on with little to no UN involvement. If you want to really depress yourself watch Shake Hands with the Devil: The Journey of Roméo Dallaire to learn more about this. It eventually drove Roméo Dallaire into depression and alcoholism, as he was stuck watching it happen and couldn't get help from the rest of the UN.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:31
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:Thanks I'll have to check that out (and share it). I want to see this resolved with as little outside interference as possible. Outside interference is what put a lot of these countries in the position they are currently in. However, I did see this on twitter... evanchill posted:What I heard from activists today is that they're just waiting for a no-fly zone, then they can march on Tripoli. #libya #feb17 It appears that the protesters are expecting and possibly waiting on the rest of the world to step in a bit to help. That is from an AJE reported in Libya.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:46
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VikingSkull posted:Can someone explain to me how a group of people can be victims of genocide while capturing vast swaths of territory at the same time? They are not victims of genocide. Some of them could be considered victims of crimes against humanity. The UN states nothing about being uniformed combatants. That is part of the Geneva Conventions, which covers war between sovereign nations. quote:Sadly, they will likely receive none. They could possibly get a no-fly zone.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:50
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My feed froze! Worst loving timing!
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Mar 17, 2011 23:33
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err posted:Just saw this, can someone explain what this means? Is it just a no-fly zone pretty much? No, it authorizes strikes.
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Mar 17, 2011 23:41
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Patter Song posted:OK, we have the resolution. When can we see action, realistically? Tomorrow? I wouldn't be surprised if the US had aircraft in the air already, or at least very shortly.
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Mar 17, 2011 23:44
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Cartouche posted:You can only kill people if you are flying? Are we only going to prevent killing via aircraft? No and no. The no fly zone means nothing flies except for the UN aircraft that enforce the no-fly zone. That does not prevent all killing, hence the resolution includes other language to prevent the killing of civilians. Oh, and earlier you asked about all the Libyan soldiers being civilians. They are not. For one, they are uniformed soldiers and treated differently under international law. Second, a large part of them are not Libyan, they are mercenaries from other countries.
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Mar 18, 2011 15:49
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evilmiera posted:In all seriousness, what if anything has properly changed in the last few days to put this into effect? The rebels lost a lot of the ground they had taken. Qaddafi had his military on the move and was headed to Benghazi, where he probably would have killed lots of people. Cartouche posted:This is a really messy situation. The UN waited waaaaayyyyy too long to act. It is not so easy to get the international community to agree to use violence. This is not a decision to take lightly. The acted pretty quickly, if you compare it to other situations like this. Normally they wouldn't act until a few hundred thousand people were dead.
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Mar 18, 2011 15:55
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Nenonen posted:Armed rebels are not civilians either, so nothing bans killing them. It would be a very big stretch of the meaning of the Resolution 1973 to include the militant rebels in the protected civilians category. True. They are actually in a fairly bad situation legality wise. The Geneva Conventions protects uniformed combatants as well. For example, they can't be found guilty of murder if they kill another uniformed combatant. A rebel would not have that type of legal protection. Maybe the UN has adopted some measures for that, but the Geneva Conventions doesn't have anything that I am aware of.
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Mar 18, 2011 16:10
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Narmi posted:If the Transitional National Council gets recognition as a legitimate government, would that mean the Libyans fighting would fall under the army category instead of being labelled rebels? If the Transitional National Council was leading combat operations and they were wearing some kind of "uniform" such as The Cheshire Cat pointed out, they would be protected. My guess is that the TNC is legitimate enough as it is. It would come down to any type of trial that might happen though. Gaddafi has lost legitimacy as a good leader, but that does not magically take away the fact that he is a leader of a organization that would be given protection. His soldiers are still protected, if they are of Libyan nationality. However, mercenaries are illegal under the Geneva Conventions, so they are pretty screwed.
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Mar 18, 2011 16:32
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GORILLA BASTARD posted:Uncle Mo is also attacking his people from the sea. Expect US assets from Naples to come strolling in very, very soon. We always have ships in the area. According to the Guardian: quote:United States Ah, the Mobile Chernobyl. I hope she hasn't gotten crabs again.
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Mar 18, 2011 16:38
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http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/2011318124421218583.html Looks like Qaddafi lied. The attacks continue despite him calling the ceasefire. He broke his word. Color me surprised.
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Mar 18, 2011 17:16
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Lagtastic posted:The civilian population is armed with RPG's because of a despotic lunatic who has been bombing his own country because he doesn't want to lose the ability of being a despotic lunatic. It is a messy line between taking sides and protecting civilians. For the people to be a legitimate opposition force, they need to have an organization and be uniformed. At that point they are no longer civilians and we really should not take a side in an internal conflict like that.
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Mar 18, 2011 17:26
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Nonsense posted:U.S. Navy base presence in Bahrain also presents the same "constraints". Yeah, the 5th Fleet being there means the US will allow pretty much anything as long as they can keep their naval base. That is a major jumping off point for any military operation in the area.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:35
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Nonsense posted:I think he means, President Obama will give a pass to the Bahrain Monarchy to control the situation as they see fit. Of course, there is a possibility, that it's a "one country at a time" policy, where right now it's Libya, as it was Egypt and so on. Perhaps once Gaddafi is gone and the civil war can end, he will turn attention to the Gulf states, but I remain doubtful. That is what I am saying. I would even say it is more than giving them a pass. The Obama administration is probably encouraging the Bahrain Monarchy to put down the protests as quickly as possible to bring stability back to the country. If the protesters were successful in Bahrain, we would very likely not be able to keep the base there. That would mean losing a lot of our ability to have any power over the region at all.
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Mar 18, 2011 22:46
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The Reaganomicon posted:I don't mean to rain on your parade, but this is the same justification used for invading Iraq. Iraq was not the same, even if people try to say it was. It didn't have stuff like this happening From twitter: Blake Hounshell posted:Update on Zintan, current as of 17:00: the residents were given a 2-hour deadline to surrender or face total execution. They chose to fight.
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Mar 21, 2011 17:48
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Narmi posted:Are you just being deliberately obtuse just for the sake of being difficult? The Libyans can sort it out for themselves since they started their own opposition government, which is widely recognized as being a legitimate step towards self-governance. I think he was questioning your use of the term tyrant. Are you assuming that a tyrant will replace Qaddafi?
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Mar 21, 2011 17:50
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Narmi posted:I never said anything to him involving the term tyrant, that was someone else, unless you're referring to the post I made this morning about whether Gaddafi was a smart tyrant or not (which was a completely separate/different discussion.). Sorry, it was someone else that said "non-bloody tyrant" which I think was somewhat confusing. He edited his post to make it less confusing. I think a few of us were trying to figure out what he was trying to say.
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Mar 21, 2011 17:59
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http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/03/libya_un_airstrikes_aid_rebels.html Boston Globe put together a bunch of pictures from recent events in Libya. They always manage to capture the feeling of events with pictures really well.
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Mar 21, 2011 19:42
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