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ChaosSamusX posted:And yet it's happening multiple times in the span of a month. Just watching these events take place has been enough to completely restore my faith in humanity, and then some. The strangely beautiful thing in all of this carnage is that it didn't have far to go when it bubbled to the surface. This flies in the face of American Imperialism: real change is going on right now. And stuff is getting done. It's not always successful and it's very bloody and violent, but this is happening. To a cynical and pampered American like myself, it's quite touching to see people going through so much just to get a better life for themselves. I wish them all success, and I hope it turns out right for them. That said, if Bahrain manages to overthrow the Saudis, things will go into overdrive.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:43
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farraday posted:Our close personal allies are without question the entrepot of reactionary Sunni autocracy. Honestly, it just shows how utterly foolish and desperate the heads of these countries really are. They bought into the idea that the populace is a bunch of cowardly sheep that will be cowed by a show of force. They never get that when you have nothing to lose, there is nothing left to fear either. What would happen if the House of Saud fell? I imagine at this point that might be on the table if Saudi Arabia is getting into Bahrain's business.
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Feb 18, 2011 21:56
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Narmi posted:That was absolutely horrifying to watch. I hope when this is over the rulers of Bahrain find themselves thrown in jail for th rest of their miserable lives. Give them to the protesters for ten minutes. That would be more justice than what the army did to those protesters.
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Feb 19, 2011 00:42
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mdemone posted:Is the escalation point or the breaking point? For the regionwide uprising? I think it'll just be more fuel for the fire. The news narrative seems to think that Bahrain failing will result in other revolutions falling down, but I think it'll just make everybody even more angry. When I was asking about the House of Saud falling and its effects earlier, I was hoping to bring this up: a lot of people are encouraged and ready to fight. We're talking about a region that is very weary and angry. Shooting a few fellow revolutionaries isn't going to stop anything, it's going to turn this very nasty. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if the House of Saud has a few attempts made on their members because of this. They chose the wrong time to get involved. When you're dealing with people with nothing to lose, they have nothing to fear. Not even death. And the rewards they will get for trying far outweigh the risks. Bahrain's response is only going to turn this into a very nasty situation that can either be solved quickly with dictators giving up, or through years of violence that will never, ever end.
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Feb 19, 2011 00:51
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:I'm going to go on record right now to say "gently caress everyone who made the events in that video possible". This is an incredibly small point to make in light of the horrific events that I've seen, but this is one of the reasons why we need a free Internet. America's current view on media outlets is the recognition (and the exploitation) of biased reporting, but the Internet's role in that allows the public unfiltered access that simply cannot and should be restricted. The media can filter the news anyway they want (and they often do), but nothing is more informative than hearing the uncut and uncensored truth like the events on that video. Information likes to be free, and if anything (and I restate, this is a very small point to make) this proves that the Internet should not be tampered with at any costs.
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Feb 19, 2011 06:31
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:It's just so sad that a majority of our society doesn't want to see these things, regardless of their access. It's considered unpleasant, so it's better to just ignore it because maybe if we ignore it then problems should go away. Find someone in favor of [unpopular current event] and show them footage like this, and they'll give you the stock "eww I don't want to see that" response - yeah, but you're in favor of it, so don't you? Images like that guy's head pouring blood while being dragged away should be mimeographed onto our Starbucks cups with a little caption "This is happening somewhere in the world". Bizarrely enough, those who are the most unlikely to see it are the same ones who boast of 'revolution' simply because the president isn't of their exclusive choosing. But regardless, a free Internet benefits everybody. Especially in cases like this where several regimes attempt to deny access and still fall.
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Feb 19, 2011 06:42
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BIG HORNY COW posted:If full scale conventional warfare against an unarmed civilian populace doesn't unify the Libyan people, I don't think anything will. I'll give it more one country to topple before we go that far. But Saudi Arabia getting involved in everybody's affair is going to be very interesting. If anything, capitalism as a concept is getting a good beating here: these protests are basically going against the corruption inherent in the system that a lot of people globally can relate to.
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Feb 20, 2011 16:52
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BIG HORNY COW posted:Should clarify - I think its past the point of no return in LIBYA. Oh, I'll back you there. Libya will probably topple or become incredibly unstable.
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Feb 20, 2011 17:00
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Jut posted:Wait, so you're happy for these people to have a lovely quality of life, just so you can enjoy yours? And do all Americans enjoy this standard of living? It seems like a bad way to support a lovely foreign policy when most of the people in this country are barely surviving. It's in the boat as 'well, you're not as bad off as <insert African country name here>' to avoid actual discussion.
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Feb 20, 2011 22:10
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Petey posted:No. His point was that Americans do have interests in these nations. Just not interests we like to admit, or like to think of ourselves as having; the same way we have an interest in maintaining the terrible quality of life of people who make iPhones because we like cheap electronics, even if we will then go to Starbucks and buy fair trade coffee. Suddenly I look around my decimated state of Michigan, and realize that maybe we should bring things back home. I know there is some things that can't, but it seems spending tax money on a horrific foreign policy designed to make corporate lives easier while we all go jobless (and hence worthless without a social safety net) is counterproductive. Maybe we should start thinking about what really benefits Americans and stop listening to Republicans who have a vested interest in complete destruction.
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Feb 20, 2011 22:19
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ShortStack posted:This sounds like the death rattle of a regime way way past it's prime. I'm so excited for the people of Libya I'm glad they have the agency now to secure their freedom and determine their own fate. Eventually, this had to happen. It proves one thing about life that still surprises me: no matter how solid something looks, no matter how utterly 'inevitable' some rule is, it will always eventually fall.
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Feb 21, 2011 01:12
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the will get the freedom they so badly deserve, hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Nessus posted:So like, are they asking us to send in the Marines? Are they volunteering to be invaded by America? If I was Obama I'd laugh and send him back this: "Be sure to give our regards to Libya's new president on the way to the firing squad, rear end in a top hat."
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Feb 21, 2011 01:38
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Slantedfloors posted:The fact that Mubarak's personal fortune was almost a good third of Egypt's economy should tell you something about why they couldn't afford to improve their infrastructure. You ever get the feeling that we might see the end of capitalism in our lifetimes? Not to derail, but the real seed of this revolutionary spirit is the lack of upward mobility that capitalism provides. Most of the problems that the Middle East is having is not too far removed from what is going on in America: a lot of people are being subjugated by a short-sighted rich elite that wants feudalism back and has no real idea how upward mobility works for them. Egypt's need to recognize food and medical care as this important at the beginning of the process really marks how imperfect and enslaving free-market capitalism is and how badly it affects everybody involved. Earlier in either this thread or the Wisconsin Union Break one, there was a sign where someone in Bahrain held up a sign supporting Wisconsin workers from having their right to bargain with employers threatened. I've only been on this planet for 32 years, but I really get the feeling that something has snapped in all of us and that the Internet has allowed to flourish, something that really needed to be said. As an American I've been taught that capitalism is the best system we have, but right now with the changes that have been going on, I'm cautiously optimistic that things have reached a point where they have to change because it's gone too far already. I know someone is going to come in here with a needle for my balloon, but maybe things have gotten so bad, so rotten, so dire that this is our breaking point to enact change. After all, in the last two years we've gotten some helpful legislation here in America and now brutal dictatorships (funded by us, of course) are being taken down. It has to mean something, but I hope whatever is inspiring all of us to break our shackles keeps up because we need it to. Change seems to be the theme for this new decade, and I hope it works out for the Middle East and, by extension, all of us in the world as well.
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Feb 21, 2011 08:11
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Brown Moses posted:Some slightly weird news: Malta? Operation Go Ahead On It's Your Move, commences. (Sorry, I had to.) So what are all these failed dictators going to do in South America, play horseshoes?
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Feb 21, 2011 17:20
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've only been glancing at this thread and the news from time to time, but I can't understand why these governments aren't saying "but....but Israel!" to try and regain order. Isn't that what they normally do when faced with hard domestic problems? Would it not work somehow, or do they have some other plan? I get the feeling there is no plan, only horror and blood. Dictators are used to putting down uprisings, but not of this scale. Right now it's just a bloody civil war that will only end with Ghaddafi dead.
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Feb 21, 2011 21:39
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Xandu posted:And when 1/5th of your country is willing to die to achieve that, as in Libya, then it's really time to kill yourself. When a fifth of the country is coming after you, you're going to end up impaled Cannibal Holocaust style.
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Feb 22, 2011 19:11
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Nenonen posted:His talks about drugs is funny, because Gaddafi looks and sounds like a person who's been doing sniffing glue and cocaine for years. Given his position of power I don't suppose it would be out of the question that he had some sort of addiction because even if others noticed, they couldn't intervene - Hitler's personal physician also gave him all kinds of dope poo poo during his last years. This poo poo makes me wish Charles Bronson was still alive. "The Quaddifi Story" would rock with Bronson dressed up like Dolemite, spouting nonsense, and talking about conspiracies. "Hey, you, punk! Al Qaeda is all up in my Libyan grill!"
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Feb 24, 2011 16:54
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cioxx posted:
That picture is making me laugh far, far too much. Charles Bronson IS Quaddafi in "Elizabeth: The Glided Age."
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Feb 24, 2011 17:45
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^^^ the whole family will probably be executed on general principles since their patriarch is madder than a March Hare.Steve Yun posted:Charles Bronson? I was going to cast Benicio Del Toro "We can't stop here! This is protester country!"
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Feb 24, 2011 18:52
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SauceNinja posted:CNBC just announced that there is some evidence that he's preparing to flee. I'm not sure what this evidence is. I imagine it's the stupid man running down the street wearing his curtains with a handful of papers screaming "gently caress THIS poo poo" in Arabic.
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Feb 24, 2011 19:07
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Ghetto Prince posted:Isn't it a little late for him to flee? And who would ever give him asylum? Given the assets are being frozen, they're probably scraping together some cash and begging people to take them in. Except Malta. They've burned their bridges there.
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Feb 24, 2011 19:55
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SauceNinja posted:If he is planning to flee, he has JUST come to terms with the idea that he is not likely to win when the vast majority of those of us following the events, have mostly been just He's finally figured out that nobody likes him and he's going to be buried under the remains of the rest of his family in short order. That, or he's going to tie Mussolini for 'most undignified exit from the mortal coil ever.' I don't mean to wish ill will on anyone, but at this point with what he's doing he's gagging for it.
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Feb 24, 2011 20:01
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"(insert foreign dictator) isn't returning my calls."
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It always amazes me how people can KEEP that many records. I mean is there seriously that much intelligence of value? Probably not much. I doubt every college kid really has that much to really go on outside of some wild conjecture. That's the problem with totalitarian states: they're paranoid to an extent that borders on insanity. The only thing that gives it an official air is how bureaucracy masks and confuses the issue. All those files represent one man's lust for power and the lengths he would go through to make it look like he's in power. It's pretty sad.
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Mar 6, 2011 05:21
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YOURFRIEND posted:Didn't oil speculation used to be illegal? They should do that again. This would be the perfect time for Obama to push energy policy reform so the fifty cent jumps would stop happening so much. Oddly enough, most of the people bitching about expensive gas were the same ones back in 2005 defending Bush from it. Some things never loving change. But right now, revisiting our energy policy is a very good idea.
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Mar 8, 2011 01:52
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The Cheshire Cat posted:"This" being Libya? Extremely doubtful. Gaddafi doesn't have a leg to stand on. All he's doing now is salting the earth to spite the revolutionaries. Plus Gaddafi has made a lot of enemies at this point and his lack of sanity doesn't help. At best he's an opportunist gently caress who is finally getting what is coming to his sad rear end, and at worst he's a lunatic loving with oil and people. None of these points to anybody coming to help him. If he's not being burned alive on a pile of the corpses of his children, he'll be considered lucky. There is nobody alive that's quite as hosed as Gaddafi.
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Mar 12, 2011 20:19
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skander posted:Many of his forced conscripts are pretty hosed. Ha ha! Patter Song posted:Not really. Over the course of his reign he pissed off many of the usual dictator havens (S. Arabia hates his guts, for example, and they were willing to take in people like Idi Amin). If he did flee, especially at this point (mass-murder in front of the world's cameras doesn't go over too well), he'd have to go to a real shithole like Burkina Faso. I think he's going to get thrown to the rebels and end up being tortured to death along with the rest of his family. At this point with his insanity and the way various countries are freezing his wealth and turning away his family, you can tell this is going to be one of those 'shame it happened (but don't expect us to do a drat thing for that motherfucker)' moments in world history. Mussolini is a good example, but we might need one for this new century.
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Mar 12, 2011 21:17
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Yaos posted:If the stories are true, they are capturing armored vehicle. I assume they knocking out wheels/treads or the driver decides to switch sides during retreats. They don't need to destroy armored vehicles if they attack, they just need to destroy it's ability to move and eventually it will run out of fuel or somebody can run up to it with a hand held explosive while it's shooting at something else. He's going to fail. If he's tying down his own men in their vehicles to prevent escape, then his 'support' does not exist. It would be fascinating to see how many people he has left, and how many of them are willing to die for this pathetic madman. Xandu posted:I guess this has been confirmed, big loving escalation. This is not a good idea. The House of Saud is a pretty big target. They probably have enough to slam down an uprising, but doing so shows a weakness that, at this point, is going to backfire immensely. Not to be too callous, but this would be a great time for Obama to put forth an energy policy to counter all of this. If Democracy comes to the Middle East with the House of Saud falling apart, we should probably start counting on skyrocketing gas and do everything besides interfere with any more nations very quickly.
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Mar 14, 2011 04:35
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Slantedfloors posted:It's possible that he could win militarily, but all he'd gain is a huge stretch of burned out towns he'd have to garrison with troops that could never go to sleep without getting their throats cut. What would he really win? His country is destroyed at his own hand and there's no way in hell he'll get back in the good graces of anybody due to the killing. For 'winning,' he's certainly poo poo where he ate. That said, I think the rebels will pull out a win here.
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Mar 15, 2011 06:58
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation? Two thoughts: 1) They have some really impressive people behind the scenes that is directing their movements and are exposing Ghaddafi's throat and ego, and/or... 2) They have some heavy financial backing that so far has remained hidden, possibly from someone sympathetic or in a liberated country. In either case, we discounted the rebels far, far too readily. These guys are not loving around.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:33
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Dr. Habibi posted:Welp, that answers that question. Sounded like a good strategy, before, you know, that last part. "Either tortured to death or gently caress YOU YOU CHARLES BRONSON-LOOKING MOTHERFU--" I wouldn't recommend it, but given how Gaddafi has treated 'prisoners' of war, gently caress it.
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Mar 15, 2011 23:33
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XK posted:I'd imagine Egypt doesn't want to risk having an angry crazy neighbor if things go bad somehow. They're taking a pass because they're sorting their own situation out. They've still got to elect a government, after all. Then their economy is still in shambles. This isn't the right time to be pressing a neighboring country with their issues since their ruler likes to kill people without a care. Not to mention they may have a refugee problem in a little bit if everything goes poorly.
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Mar 17, 2011 18:10
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Brown Moses posted:Nothing I've picked up on, there are rumours that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and UAE will be part of the no fly zone though. So what's the over/under on Ghaddafi and his family escaping to South America? At this point he's got to know it's up, even if he's loving insane.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:34
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gipskrampf posted:Statement from the deputy foreign minister of Libya: They are ready to enact a ceasefire and to protect civilians. Whatever that means, sounds like they are stalling. Odd, I'm reading that as 'we'll hand over the madman and his entire family, please don't kill us. A buck says Gaddafi dies in a few hours. It's either that or every single person in the Libyan government that hasn't defected is going to put a knife into his back to save their own.
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Mar 18, 2011 00:52
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Verizian posted:I like to think he's thinking to himself "Finally I can quit my job and write that buddy movie screenplay I've been putting off since college!" Then again at times like this I'm an optimist. Nah, it's like this: "Well, everything comes to an end. I'm going to go home, pack a bag, act like everything is cool, and catch the next floating raft to Italy as soon as loving possible. How long should I wait before I start writing the tell-all? Five weeks? poo poo, I'll figure it out when I'm in a cell claiming asylum."
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Mar 18, 2011 00:58
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Lascivious Sloth posted:Well I assume as soon as the jets get there. The question is: what are they going to target? Do they attack deployed forces they are tracking in the east, or do they wipe out as many known military installations and assets in the west/tripoli as soon as possible? Will they even target buildings and military sites? They would probably divide their time destroying the convoys intent on destroying the rebel holdings while taking out Libya's military installations.
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Mar 18, 2011 01:16
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Sinteres posted:4. Obama didn't make the case to the American people, or engage Congress in a meaningful way. This doesn't negate the good that could potentially come of a successful humanitarian intervention, but it's kind of ironic to support democracy abroad while avoiding democratic accountability at home. Plus this is coming across as a 'we're just helping our allies' mission. It's the EU's baby and America's just there to lend support. I think that's why we waited until some Arabic nations gave their approval. America has a bad history with wars over there recently, and it's pointless to go into another. If I were Obama, I'd just sign off on being helpful and let Europe take the fall. The good that comes out of it wouldn't really be worth the praise.
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Mar 18, 2011 02:06
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Xandu posted:I expect someone on Fox to attack Obama for letting France attack first. Remember when Fox was on the ball with their bullshit? By now we would already have two to three separate narratives that were full of racist/sexist underpinnings combined with mad conspiracies that nobody could decipher. Now, they're basically sitting around with a thumb up their rear end, letting the rural retards that fund the network do the heavy lifting. "Uh, he's not doing enough." "No, he's doing too little." "How dare he continue the wars he started!" "He's disgracing our heroes in the Iraqi War!" "FRANCE?!? ARE WE LESS THAN THOSE CHEESE-EATING HOMOS??" I got a new name for them: The Failed Narrative Network.
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Mar 19, 2011 21:29
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Stroh M.D. posted:It never existed in the first place. At the same time as Kadaffi held his speech about a cease-fire, his forces kept shelling Misrati and Benghazi. It was a ruse - and a bad one. Thank Twitter for that. Any legitimacy that the lunatic had went out the window when started slaughtering his own people. The man is certifiable. The blame for all of this lies on his zombie head.
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Mar 20, 2011 00:53
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Somehow, I want to think that Ghadaffi's death will be something really embarrassing. Like he'll be caught running in his Bea Arthur garb, revealing tiny genitals or something. And his last picture, this madman, will be showing the world he's hung like a cashew. I'm not sure why, but his mumblings combined with his past actions make me wonder if there will be some really hilarious karmic backlash that'll show up in the next few days that'll just tarnish this lunatic once and for all.
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Mar 20, 2011 01:57
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sweeptheleg posted:I hate the amount of money that gets spent on the military as much as the next guy, but this is the first thing since I've started paying taxes I could go along with so yea.. IMO its in bad taste to start making money spending arguments about Libya. No kidding. If he did nothing, he would get poo poo. When he does, suddenly it's his version of Iraq that everybody is happy to jump on. What exactly does everybody want him to do? I don't like some of the decisions this man has made, but he's done the best thing to do so far: act as backup for the French and British when the Libya Rebels requested said help. Seriously, I want to know what Obama can do here because it seems everybody is ready to jump into his poo poo. Cartouche posted:I have to think that things would have been a bit different, had Obarry made a move a week or so before they ultimately did. It doesn't help that he has been on a perceived roadtrip vacation, picking his sweet sixteen, etcetera while all of this and Japan are going on. He may be working his little obama off in reality, but he allowed himself to be perceived as a globe-trotting buffoon who was oblivious to happenings in the world. So his real crime was not doing it sooner? How is that an argument? It seems like your solution is to bash him for not being publicity-friendly with the argument and not dealing with the Fox News interpretation of his Latin American visit. He was trying to pimp our exports to South America and now he's being bashed for that? Why don't we argue the reality instead of what Fox News is boasting about. They just want Obama dead because he's a Democrat. Their opinion means nothing.
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Mar 24, 2011 01:50
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