Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Is the US supposed to be participating in the No-Fly Zone? Or are we just going to lob cruise missiles at Libya?

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 20:22

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 14:59

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Shageletic posted:

EDIT: Flamingliberal, check out the last few pages. American planes, and a carrier moving to Italy in support.

Thanks, I was out for awhile and just got back in now.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 20:24

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I still have no expectation that Obama will do anything concrete as far as putting pressure on Israel. I mean, the last time he tried to get Netanyahu to cease building settlements, 'Bibi' just said NO and that was basically the end of it. I don't expect any different here.

# ¿ May 25, 2011 23:55

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Brown Moses posted:

I always got the impression that with Libya a lot of Western countries threw their support behind the rebels to make up for their inaction with Egypt and Tunisia, thinking the rebels would win. When that didn't happen they had to throw their full support behind the rebels so they didn't end up with an angry dictator sat across the Med from Europe.

Pretty sure you're spot on. Remember that when things began in Egypt the White House and the State Department were both urging caution and taking the conservative approach.

Although that doesn't shock me, given how Mubarak was a key US ally in the region despite his myriad human rights abuses. Remember that a lot of terror suspects snatched from Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Europe, etc. were rendered down to Egypt for actual interrogation, since they could torture the hell out of those suspects without the US's hands getting dirty.

# ¿ May 26, 2011 20:31

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I get the feeling this is now entering the same phase that occurred in Libya and (to a different extent) Egypt. Now that the rebels have proven that they won't be crushed in a day or two by the regime, outside forces are beginning to take sides in the conflict. Although obviously lines are going to be drawn harder than in Libya, since it had little strategic value, but Syria is important to the US, Russia, and China for different reasons.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2012 08:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Brown Moses posted:

I thought this was interesting

Among the key findings

It seems Turkey will play a major role in Syria's future, whatever happens.

Wouldn't that situation be a terrible outcome for Turkey, since it might further ignite the problems they've been having in regards to the Kurds/Kurdistan? I would have to think that would be an issue if Iraq destabilized yet again.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2012 00:02

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

What a mess. RIP.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2012 15:35

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

VH4Ever posted:

OK so I'm into tolerance and all the but can someone tell me what in the gently caress is going on in the Middle East? How can some "film" which is really a glorified YouTube video cause all of this? Honest to God what the gently caress is going on? Because I don't understand.

It's not about the film. It's about general anger at the West for various reasons more than anything.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2012 17:01

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Sepherothic posted:

I think the article implied the drones were recon. I doubt the libyan government would be okay with us bombing benghazi.

Pakistan sure as hell isn't OK with us bombing towns within their sovereign territory, but we do it anyway. What are they realistically going to do about it? Libya has even less control right now. It really wouldn't shock me if we start using drones to blow up things there. We're doing it in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia already.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2012 18:54

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

New Division posted:

Joint Afghan-US operations are being almost completely suspended in Afghanistan due to the mounting problem of the insider attacks.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/17/13923373-us-afghan-military-operations-suspended-after-attacks

I'm sure someone in the Pentagon tomorrow will be downplaying this like crazy, despite the fact that according to them everything has been going great over there with the training. Plus I believe Obama is still claiming that we are sticking in there until sometime in 2014. The whole situation is stupid.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2012 03:58

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Cephalocidal posted:

We're sticking in there until after the November election in the US, then we're legitimizing the Taliban via peace talks and getting the gently caress out as soon as possible.

Would be great if this were true, but I would be surprised if things happened that fast.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2012 16:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Xandu posted:

This is almost assuredly nonsense (US would never give him that authority) and a really dumb thing to say. Not sure what the point was.

I think it's just him trying to subtly tell his people that he's in charge, and totally not a US puppet leader.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2012 07:50

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Brown Moses posted:

I'll make sure I always something like "there's SOMETHING AWFUL going on in Syria with all these children dying". They'll send me the topic of discussion beforehand, gives me chance to get my thoughts and opinions in order.

"Imagine three Libyas on the edge of a cliff. Syria works the same way."

# ¿ Oct 19, 2012 16:49

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Charlz Guybon posted:

Didn't wikileaks say the Sauds hate the Persians more than they do the Jews, and were willing to let them pass through their airspace?

I think it was saying that the Saudi leaders are more concerned with Iran being a threat to them in the present than Israel. Which is of course true.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2012 16:57

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

CommieGIR posted:

Definently sounds like the regime...trying to get bartering chips?

Yeah. The group believed to be responsible was planning on exchanging the news crew for captured soldiers.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2012 18:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

So did we ever hear from Caro again after he disappeared somewhere in Syria? I'm still not sure how he didn't get himself killed in Libya, to be honest.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2012 18:54

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Even if the reports are true, I don't see Obama agreeing to do anything beyond maybe a Libya style bombing campaign. Nothing that would be on the scale of other conflicts.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2013 17:56

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I still think that sending actual American troops into Syria is the least likely result. More likely will be increased support for the rebels. I'm sure the CIA already has some people there, but I don't really count that.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2013 20:12

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Does this claim by the Turkish Prime Minister today really change anything? It seems like he's calling Obama out. I'm assuming it's ultimately meaningless though.

# ¿ May 9, 2013 20:21

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Things are not going well in Afghanistan when it comes to peace talks/relations with the Afghani government.

Basically the NYT is reporting that the White House is now seriously considering a complete withdrawal of all US military personnel by the end of 2014, something they had previously ruled out. This is happening for two reasons. One, the Afghani government, Karzai in particular, is basically using US plans for negotiations with the Taliban to force us to give them lots of money and sign a security guarantee of some kind. He is also refusing to discuss any plans for US troops remaining in the country after 2014 unless we play ball. The problem is that the things he wants includes blaming Pakistan for internal Afghani instability, which is a no-go. Karzai also effectively tried to block US plans to negotiate with the Taliban by making word of it public and basically being a thorn in the White House's side.

So as a result of worsening relations with the Afghani government, the timetable for US withdrawal may be moved up, much in the same way the troops in Iraq withdrew sooner than expected thanks to the Iraqi government refusing to sign off on a long-term US troop presence in the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/world/asia/frustrated-obama-considers-full-troop-withdrawal-from-afghanistan.html?_r=0

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:34

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

So I'm assuming any endgame here is going to be just as bloody as what we're seeing now?

# ¿ Aug 15, 2013 14:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

VikingSkull posted:

In the short run, Bush was absolutely worse. Kinda hard to argue against Iraq. In the long run? Obama might make the British post-WWI look like loving scholars in the region. At least Bush kept his fuckup more or less contained. Obama's bungling or inaction is fanning the flames across the whole region.

It's a scary proposition.

Actually Bush's Pentagon managed to resurrect a basically dead Al Qaeda branch in Somalia, and then again in Yemen by supporting brutal warlords/dictators in the name of fighting 'terrorism'.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2013 12:02

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Brown Moses posted:

I'm seeing reports that Mubarak is being released, anyone got a solid confirmation for that? Apparently he's been cleared of corruption, so will be released with in the week.

That's some bad timing right there...

# ¿ Aug 19, 2013 12:00

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Aurubin posted:

Man people are going apeshit over Al Jazeera America. Gotta love ingrained racism and the self-censorship of US media outlets in their universal condemnation of Al Jazeera.

It started with the Bush White House claiming that they were acting as a mouthpiece for Al Qaeda/opposition to the US invasion of Iraq, to the point where the US military bombed an Al Jazeera broadcasting center in Iraq 'accidentally', which killed a few people.

Sadly to the last two administrations, interviewing terrorists = supporting terrorists. There's a lot of evidence that the Obama WH forced the Yemeni government into keeping a journalist who conducted several interviews with members of Al Qaeda and also reported on a US cruise missile attack that killed something like 40 civilians (10 of which were children, and 7 or so pregnant mothers). Thankfully he was just freed.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2013 01:20

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Aurubin posted:

Yeah Abdulelah Haider Shaye, who first made it public that the US was bombing Yemen and not the Yemeni government. Jeremy Scahill went to bat for him. Hell Obama had the audacity to say he was disappointed by Shaye's release. Fucker. In other news, AJAM is okay so far in the brief bit I watched. A piece on Bangladeshi and Indian child labor. Hope they stick to the actual stories bit of news.

Have you read Scahill's newest book? I'm about 4/5 of the way through it. It must have taken him years and years to write, as it's chock full of info.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2013 02:19

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Pieter posted:

If Obama doesn't put money where his mouth is we're going to see a lot more chemical attacks.

What exactly is his move here? Every option is terrible.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2013 15:47

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

SedanChair posted:

Obama can't really avoid looking like an impotent fool if he does nothing. He'll take a page from Clinton's book and order strikes.

Yeah I'm assuming that's what this is, although I wonder what Russia's reaction will be

# ¿ Aug 24, 2013 00:01

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Is anyone of consequence actually advocating for significant US involvement other than air strikes?

# ¿ Aug 24, 2013 01:17

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I'm partial to "I'm John Kerry, and I'm Reporting for Duty!"

# ¿ Aug 26, 2013 20:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I forget, did Caro disappear into Syria or something?

# ¿ Aug 28, 2013 18:13

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Chamale posted:

It is a lose-lose scenario, but it seems the U.S. should at least take action to try and keep chemical weapons an international taboo. I don't want to see the situation turn into another Rwanda, but it's already so full of sectarian hatred that I don't see a reasonable path to ending the civil war peacefully.

Haven't hundreds of thousands of people died in fighting there since this started like 3 years ago? I think we're well beyond that point now.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 12:00

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Hell, we didn't lift a finger a few weeks ago when Egypt gunned down more people in the streets than this supposed CW attack killed in Syria.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2013 12:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Xandu posted:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323893004579057271019210230.html

Seriously, Congress better refuse to authorize the strikes, otherwise we're looking at a major escalation from all sides in the region. Between this report and the other one about Shiite militias from Iraq prepared to support the Assad regime with manpower against the resistance, none of this can end well.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2013 03:06

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

computer parts posted:

You could probably categorize FDR's "a date which shall live in infamy" speech as selling WW2 to the public, it just didn't take much selling.

Yes, but in that case we were attacked first. In the cases of everything since WWII, we were the ones starting/escalating the conflict. Even with Afghanistan, since the Afghani government didn't attack us themselves, it was just a group that was receiving sanctuary within their borders.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2013 03:10

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Wasn't there some discussion that the removal would involve the UN or inspectors?

# ¿ Sep 9, 2013 20:49

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Dolash posted:

That chapter 7's a pretty impressive gain from talks. If Russia and America can agree to this, that's going to make Syria very lonely if they reject the deal. At the very least, it gives America a strong hand to say "we tried everything, the regime won't listen to reason, so we have to use force".

I have to think that Russia will make sure Syria gets in line with the agreement.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 16:29

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I'm surprised nobody's been discussing the visit of President Rouhani to the US. It certainly seems like Iran is attempting to cool things down between themselves and the US in some way. Meanwhile Netanyahu took his opportunity to take a dump all over the potential talks on nuclear arms, because why not.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2013 15:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I had no idea about half of what was going on in Somalia until I read Dirty Wars, since nobody in the US really covered all of the stuff we were doing in Somalia. Of course we took out a somewhat moderate government and that gave Al Shabab, the people we went in there to destroy, the power.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2013 21:56

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Bibi wasn't reelected to push for peace, that's abundantly clear

# ¿ Sep 24, 2013 20:08

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 14:59

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Muffiner posted:

This.
Let me give you another perspective. When the revolution started, protesters refused to call themselves 'opposition', as the Syrian opposition at the time was just basically three groups: a bunch of nobody academics who had lived for years abroad and were very out of touch with realities on the ground, regime defectors such as Khaddam and Rifat Al Assad who were the worst people in the regime when they were in power, and the Muslim Brotherhood, who were (and by many accounts still are) a bunch of opportunistic old toads who think like the Baath, but are more treacherous and untrustworthy.
The first (and second) SNC was to a certain degree these guys coming and saying to everybody 'ok, we represent the revolution' and the Muslim Brotherhood blocking any change that might make that statement true and dilute its power over an entity of nothing. They blocked the people on the ground from creating their own leaderahip structures, and basically ended up hijacking everything people in Syria tried to do, whether they meant to or not. That is why the Islamist declaration is not a surprise, and that is why it poses the greatest threat to the SNC since its inception.

This sounds a lot like Saddam era Iraq.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 23:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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