|
-Sure hope this Brega rumor has some truth to it. -Mining in the known path of aid ships? I know some shipments of weapons came from Benghazi, but is he trying to be as cartoonishly evil as possible? -There does seem to be a momentum shift, what with the Misratans expanding into the outer city limits and the Nafusans cave-fighting all the way to Tunisia. If his forces can't even take Misrata (tactical retreat my rear end, he was aiming for Zawiyah 2.0) while it's surrounded and can't hold Tripoli's own mountain backyard, what chance of victory does Gaddafi have? -I count about seven suchlike momentum shifts, is that correct? 1) Unprecedented protests almost everywhere 2) State Forces shoot everything that moves 3) Protesters take many cities, all the east and some of the west, charge from Ajdabiya to Sidrah 4) Gaddafi goes medieval on nearby towns, counterattacks all the way to the gates of Benghazi 5) UN airpower wins the round, rebels on the road to Sirte 6) Pro-G forces go low-vis and scatter the rebels back to Ajdabiya 7) Misurata pushes back; the Mountains become a cat-and-mouse game -Who does Saleh think he is? Gaddafi? -Now that Rafah is opened, what will Hamas do? Will they try for more rockets or follow that shiny new accord with the PA? The Israelis are twitchy enough as it is.
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2011 23:09
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:30 |
|
|
Yeah sure, the Afghan govt is pretty nasty, violent and corrupt, but not yet Gaddafi-crazy-evil-grade. Contrast: -The Taliban want theocracy, stoning women and banning music. -The Free Libyans have women officials, guitarists on the frontline and asked the UN to help with municipal elections.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2011 06:59
|
|
|
Yeah, I'd be curious to learn about the material results of the Sea Battle of Misrata. Where does Q find people crazy enough to run a gauntlet of Western frigates? According to this, HMS Liverpool and HMCS Charlottetown  were joined by a French ship. Any ideas which one? Courbet?Naval support would be pretty cool for the Eastern rebels, I mean Brega is a seaport (and Ras Lanuf, Sidrah...) and the entire Daffy supply line is a coastal road. Just park the hulk of Ark Royal off the coast! EDIT: Les Français say they shot at stuff near Brega on the 2nd with Montcalm and near Misratah on the 7th with Courbet. 100 mm Naval Gun suckers! ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 07:50 on May 13, 2011 |
|
#
¿
May 13, 2011 07:14
|
|
|
Hasn't the NTC promised to honor existing (i.e. Gaddafi-negotiated) contracts?
|
|
#
¿
May 13, 2011 19:58
|
|
|
The rebels will accept no political solution that includes Gaddafi or family; the Qaddhafis will accept no political solution that excludes them. I just don't see it. What common ground can they find? [hypothetical_armchair-general-ism] I see three offensive options for the Misrata Mighty Men in their Magnificent MadMax Mechanicals: 1) West: Zliten -> Tripoli The "going for the kill" option, the one that would end Gadd quickly if successful, but it's very risky. Many cities and the thickest bunch of Q-men, all before sprawling Tripoli. Who knows what the population might do. 2) Southeast: Coastal road to Sirte The "logistic lifeline" option. It's a long, long, long way, but the coastal road is mostly featureless, Sirte is the only notable urban zone, and it has a bypass road. Threatening the logistics of the Brega front might cause stuff there (what the gently caress would a bunch of imams be doing in a refinery town/war frontline? Who writes this stuff? Baghdad Bob?). They don't even need to attack Sirte, just surround and link up with the east. It creates a huge frontline, though. 3) Southwest: Bani Walid -> Gharyan -> Nafusa The "overland campaign" option. Somewhat riskier, but there are fewer built-up areas, more open spaces for NATO strikes. I don't know about Bani Walid, but Gharyan revolted and was crushed first, even before Zawiya. Then it's the rebellious Mountains. This could cut Q from his southern manpower and supply routes, create a great siege of coastal Tripolitania and permit both rebel zones to relieve each other. The unified rebels would be at risk from two fronts. Or they could just wait and play meatgrinder. [/hypothetical_armchair-general-ism]
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2011 19:47
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Gaddafi vehicle captured by rebels in Misrata Oh dear they're seizing real armored vehicles now. Anybody knowledgeable can tell the model? I can't find anything quite like it on image search. pylb posted:Also a story about a trap the rebels in Al Giran devised to deal with Gaddafi forces when they only had access to small arms : they had found tank shells, useless by themselves, and stored them in a safe place. ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 15, 2011 |
|
#
¿
May 15, 2011 22:52
|
|
|
NATO posted:Strikes on Tripoli, Al-Khums and Sirte Welp. There goes the Libyan Navy. The TNC should send its captured ships to harass Brega or to interdict the road between it and El Agheila. Cutting off the supply line to Brega is the simplest way for the Rebels to win, and maybe the only one; I don't see them capable yet to take it by force.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2011 04:59
|
|
|
Yeah, after changing hands at least three (?) times, there might not be (m)any civilians in Brega or El Agheila. Besides, attacking a coastal desert road might not be counted as "endangering civilians", I would guess.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2011 05:40
|
|
|
If the Misratans can reach the crossroads of the highway to Sirte, they can not only threaten it and the supply line to Brega, they also block travel from Sabha to Sirte to Tripoli and they can push on Bani Walid from another direction. edit: this map is good and simple: http://www.libyana.org/maps/english/west.jpg http://www.libyana.org/maps/english/main.htm Thank you Austin for the motherlode, satisfying all Libya cartography needs, even a special 2011 page: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/libya.html ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 15:15 on May 31, 2011 |
|
#
¿
May 31, 2011 14:56
|
|
|
In particular, that general is a pig. In general, the whole drat "these filthy whores might accuse our brave men of being rapists!!!" mindset is a pigsty. That's institutionalized sexual assault, drat it!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2011 01:11
|
|
|
Ace Oliveira posted:Zintan is where the first Misrata rebels that went after they won the battle there, right? While a bit later, more Misrata rebels went south, right? I'm just trying to understand where the Misrata rebels got sent off to, and where the grunts that came from Benghazi are going to. The Misratans are fighting in the outskirts of Zliten on the western coast and Tawergha to the south, both only some distance out of Misrata. http://www.libyafeb17.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/misrata-map-june-1.jpg Zintan is in the Nafusa mountains pocket, still far from their fellow rebs. On Brown Moses' map, see Gharyan on the lower right? Less than 100km of southbound highway gets you to Mizdah. From there, driving about 100km to the northeast and you're in Bani Walid, and then it's the long road to Misrata. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/libya_pol93.jpg Also: Gaddafi and the Canadian far-right? The gently caress? 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2011 01:42
|
|
|
ChaosSamusX posted:As a Canadian, I have no words to describe the sheer weirdness of this. I know, right?Ace Oliveira posted:Wow, that's a very informative post, thanks.  Ace Oliveira posted:I presume the rebels captured all those towns from Naimah to Zintan's outskirts, right? On naval matters: The rebels have the naval bases of Benghazi, Dernah, Tobruk and Misrata. That leaves the Q-navy with Tripoli, Sirte and Al-Khums only. :wikipedia: The rebs seized at least 1 frigate (Al-Hani) and 1 corvette (Tariq-Ibn Ziyad), half of the 'heavy' fleet! Considering the shellacking NATO gave the remaining Q-ships, the NTC might actually have a bigger navy today! Here's a photo of Al-Hani with the tricolor flag. edit: Nice try, Muammar. Attacking NATO ships is such a good idea! ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 3, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2011 05:10
|
|
|
Lascivious Sloth posted:NATO launches helicopter strikes in Libya Now that's something to watch closely! If reports are true and the Brit Apaches are over Brega, an easier target environment than Misrata or Tripolitania, there might be stuff happening. If/when Brega falls, the best-supplied & most numerous & less-experienced rebel force could be in a good position to push through to El Agheila, Ras Lanuf, Sidrah, Nawfaliyah, Harawiyah and... Sirte? Interesting analysis: Foreign Policy posted:Libyan Limbo – Six reasons why it’s been so tough to get Gaddafi to quit About oil: Reuters posted:Libya rebels are not revising oil deals About money New York Times posted:Rebel Libya Finance Chief Hunts for Funds and Hope Qadhafi Ammo dump Royal Air Force posted:Goes BOOM, you bloody wanker ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jun 4, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2011 07:04
|
|
|
That attack on Misrata might not have been Kaddafi's brightest idea. I mean, he lost the first battle. Since then: -his forces have suffered quite a lot of NATO attrition; -the Misratans have gotten experienced and equipped; -the Benghazi-Misrata sealane has been bringing non-stop food, fuel, medicine, weapons, ammo and men; -NATO now has helicopters deployed; does he really expect to take the city? Maybe he knows it and is just stalling for time against his most dangerous opponents on the ground.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2011 22:51
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:I don't know if any of you missed this early, but I highly recommend watching it, some really good footage from the Gaddafi side of the conflict. That video is  defined. These doomed rebels...If Tunisia takes a stronger role, that's really big news. That would help the Nafusans a lot. Maybe, the rebels could then move toward the coastal border.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2011 22:04
|
|
|
Bombardment of Ghadames? If true, that would be an important event; the town is a border post with Algeria and close to a crucial crossroads between the Nafusa mtns and the south.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2011 04:36
|
|
|
The Ghadames rumor is very interesting not just because of the border link to Algeria that has been open to the regime but also because it's Tuareg territory and might mean estrangement from Grad-affi. I did not expect the Zawiyans to be able to mount a second insurrection after the first was crushed. If some fighting men managed to flee to the mountains, that would be great news; they weren't all killed or captured back then. An alliance from the mountains to the sea would be a good position. What happened to those troops that were bombing the Nafusas from the plains? If the Nafusans did truly reach the coastal rebels, they had to go through their enemies somewhere. If they hold the Bir Ayyad to (Zawiya and/or Surman) road(s), does that mean they've cut off those troops to the west? Or did they retreat? Eh, there is now a wikipedia page for the Battle of Zliten. If the Misratans can reach the denser areas, their city-fight experience could be applied and anything outside west of town can get NATOed.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2011 18:15
|
|
|
Ghost of Babyhead posted:So it seems some of the rebels are assembling armed remote-control robots Hillbilly remote weapon station! In the same fight that has molotovs and WWII guns. These rebels have gone from stones to cutting edge in a few months. If the Iraqi Kurds get involved, that's a big support base for the Syrian Kurds.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2011 14:18
|
|
|
Man, what a week. How quickly did it go from "Stalemate!" to "Downfall: The Gaddafi Take". Now that Tripoli has blown up, what next? 1) What about Brega? Will they keep resisting? Or will the Cyrenaicans finally break through? 2) The pocket on the western border is pretty hosed, and after that poo poo in Tunisia the other day, I can't see that country being very happy with fleeing G-fools 3) How will Sirte and Sabha and other strongholds react? Sirte is now between an Eastern anvil and a Misratan hammer. 4) How will the rebel unification go? Adding my stone to the Brown Moses monument. I tip my hat to you, good sir. ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Aug 21, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2011 23:14
|
|
|
Xandu posted:Even if he didn't draw it, this image is still pure  I didn't even know there could be independent cartoonists in Syria; this guy must have balls made of granite inkwells.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2011 02:50
|
|
|
Lascivious Sloth posted:Gaddafi in Algeria? Rebels in Ghadamis? I don't remember anything about rebels there before, is there more info? If true, that would be another border crossing in free libyan hands. Wiki tells me the locals are mostly Berbers, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Hope the UNESCO world heritage site is untouched.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2011 03:50
|
|
|
feb17.info posted:http://feb17.info/news/libya-live-unrest-august-27-2011-2/
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2011 05:46
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Confirmed, Gaddafi is NOT a woman: Such a Libyan patriot; truly the Father of his People!
|
|
#
¿
Sep 1, 2011 17:38
|
|
|
Found this photoshop of Captain Once Bani Walid falls, the rebels* will be able to take Mizdah in a pincer movement from there and Gharyan. Does anyone know about the frontline between Misrata and Sirte? I found the Cyrenaican Corps is near Wadi Harawah, but I couldn't find much on the Misratan advance. If they control the crossroads to the Misrata-Waddan highway, that could give a way to flank Sirte. The Gadd pocket on the Tunisian border, south of Zuwarah/north of the Nafusa, does it still exists? Last I heard about them, they were launching random rockets at the coastal roads. Journalists have said the road is now free from Tunisia to Tripoli, so I guess this pocket is withering. FInally, how is the situation south of the Nafusa? Is Ghadames NTC-held? Are they linked to the rest of liberated territory? *No longer really appropriate. How should we refer to them now? Free Libyans? NTCists? Republic Forces?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2011 02:59
|
|
|
I will admit to finding this map funny, in a way. Bani Walid is basically surrounded, and the NLAs have the numbers, resources and logistics (a field hospital? That's pretty wise); Sirte will be the tougher nut to crack, with lots of flat open ground to cover, entrenched artillery and a way south. That said, I've seen a report of rebellion activity in Waddan (allegedly bombed from Hun) and the Cyrenaicans are bringing the big guns to Sirte, so who knows.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 10, 2011 02:58
|
|
|
Yeah, the capture of Sabha and all those other Fezzan places (especially Jufra if true) makes the other battles look tragically futile. Gadd holdings checklist: Bani Walid and Sirte are no longer strategically useful (except for diverting NTC manpower and even that did not prevent the fall of crucial southern crossroads); these Qaddafists are basically stuck like the Germans at Stalingrad and condemned to irreversible if slow attrition. They are still well-supplied in ammo, entrenched, desperate and they know their artillery well; a tough nut to crack by untrained and poorly coordinated NTC forces whose main desert tactic is the Toyota truckrush. (They did own the Gaddafis in urban warfare, though.) Tiny desert villages in Fezzan: Mostly irrelevant now that the NTC took the main junctions (Sabha, Jufra, Zillah, Murzuq, Awbari...) and doesn't seem to have much trouble holding them. That CNN footage* of Sabha falling so easily is quite impressive for a supposedly Qadhafist stronghold. Ghat and surroundings: the last place where Khadhafy still has organized, mobile and supplied forces. Will they hold like BW/Sirte or crumble? *Wedeman's been doing great reports, there. Those bags of yellow powder marked *RADIOACTIV* are mediatic gold.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2011 20:42
|
|
|
A Hana Gaddafi biography is owed to the world, because either: 1) She's the only one of that name, and her death was a massive lie; 2) She bears the name of the truly bombed dead first, and her entire life was a daddy-enforced secret; and whichever of these has got to be one of the weirdest life stories ever. Also, Saadi's football "career" makes him look like a huge prick.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2011 02:00
|
|
|
On the solidarity between "rats" and "germs", pretty cool story of revolutionary spirit being shared: Syrians in Libya Sue Torton is reporting from the Eastern gate of Sirte, reached by the Cyrenaican fighters, about 20 km from town.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 24, 2011 01:44
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:If Libya360 is to be believed, he'll do it by pulling out a ninja sword and sprinting across the desert at mach speed, slicing up NATO special forces and African Mercenaries Matrix style. He'll occasionally do backflip kicks to deflect NATO missiles that rebound and blow up the planes and ships that fire them. When he reaches the border he'll shoryuken Charles Bouchard in the jaw while the masses of totally-not-rebelling Libya cheer him on. ...I'd watch that film. On Q and the Tuaregs, I'd partially counter that the NTC conquered the southern desert oases (basically the only worthwhile thing besides the derricks) with far greater ease and local support than mountain fortress Bani Walid or urban trap Sirte. They hold the better logistic position now. The desert is also inhospitable to Frizzhead and his money bag is no longer being replenished (if still large) and mercenary prices are kinda unsustainable in the long run. I do agree he could create a lot of trouble on the borders for some time, like that Ghadames raid that I'm waiting for the Algerians to explain.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2011 07:15
|
|
|
ChaosSamusX posted:Wh-what? Awesomest military garb on Earth since a long time. Or, LibyanLionMan. I'm always impressed by those photos taken just the moment the rocket leaves the tube.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2011 04:04
|
|
|
Yeah, the Kurds are basically hosed over by almost everybody. Turkey officially has no Kurds, only "mountain Turks". MPs were once sent to prison for speaking Kurdish in the Assembly. It's gotten a tad less worse these last few years (under EU pressure on Ankara) if still lovely. Iran is, well, mullahfucking Iran. Shia Kurds have it slightly better, but Sunni Kurds? Syrian Kurds were just like anybody not a cousin of Assad. The only Kurd-friendly place is Iraqi Kurdistan, where they have their own autonomous province and generally do their own thing, trying not to get involved in the mess down south. It's actually the safest place in Iraq. While the provincial authority tries to sweeten the Three States, it's become a safe heaven for militants against each of them. Turkey frequently violates the border to hunt the PKK. So Iraq is the better place!  (So yeah killing a Kurd leader is a quick way to worsen poo poo)
|
|
#
¿
Oct 8, 2011 04:10
|
|
|
One for the "Crazy Frenchmen" file: Almost unbelievable but true: a French Tiger helicopter lands on a Libyan beach to pick up a Free Libya flag I wonder at what rate Kaddafi is burning through his purse, there in the desert. EDIT: DAMNIT COPY/PASTE ISN'T THIS HARD. Fixed the link. Now I feel so derp. ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Oct 14, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2011 06:24
|
|
|
I am a moron who can't put up a correct link, ain't I? So derp I can't Copypaste for drat  I meant to link this: http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/tiger-beach/ A Corellian DP-20 gunship fan-made deckplan, actually. So nerdy. ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Oct 14, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2011 07:39
|
|
|
Reuters posted:http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LJ2O520111019?sp=true A complete article on the Libyan Land Raider. fakedit WITH PICTURES: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8836881/Libya-rebels-build-huge-armoured-battering-ram.html
|
|
#
¿
Oct 19, 2011 18:20
|
|
|
mathaba posted:A) On October 31, Canadian NATO Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard admitted journalists in Libya were NATO informants, Going from B to A? Reading comprehension just got murdered like a brother leader in a drainage ditch. Unless you take the words insanely literally, but... Also: If I read a book about a mentally ill dude who ended up in a foreign civil war only to return to accusations of mercenariness, I'd call the plot ridiculously daft. edit : Hell of a hobby, Schlamowitz ecureuilmatrix fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Nov 10, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2011 04:26
|
|
|
Wsobchak posted:Too bad he realized these issues only after they'd overthrown a stable government, Wsobchak posted:devastated the country And that's just the physical side. How about the utter lack of civil society? Political parties? The justice system? The actual level of destruction is remarkably tempered, witness the fast return of the oil production. Wsobchak posted:and invited NATO and al-qaeda right in. As for Al-Qaeda: NESCAFE DRUGSSSSSS. (Besides, the new cabinet was noted as having little Islamist presence and there was no uproar by them. Now what?)
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2011 01:45
|
|
|
Jut posted:Sirte, Tawergha and Bin walid have been flattened, militias are running around doing whatever the gently caress they want with no end in sight to reigning them in and we are seeing CQera style detentions and torture. You call this tempered destruction? I didn't say the chaotic militia did not cause significant or unnecessary damage in parts; only that the regime did a huge lot more (again compare what little happened in Tripoli and what was in store for Benghazi) and that they are ultimately responsible for the lot of it for starting the civil war. The rebels postponed attack after attack on Sirte to allow escape and attempted negociations in Bani Walid many times; did the regime offer the same to Misrata/Zawiyah/Ajdabiya/Zintan/Gharyan/etc...? Of course, that "rape and pillage" order the Misratans intercepted does not give them the right to raze Tawergha and ideally local commanders should be held responsible for that cleansing. Might never happen realistically, though. On the matter of exactions, yes it should not be tolerated and the interim cabinet needs to stop it as best as they can manage. At least now the government has positive goals and tries to solve issues by negotiating between local militias, a huge improvement, no? I will admit my view of "tempered damage" is influenced by my current courses about WWII and might be somewhat skewed. Still, the two largest cities are mostly intact and so is most of the reliably-moneymaking industry that gives the new cabinet a lot of cash to soothe people.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2011 16:30
|
|
|
The power/economic balance between Cyrenaica and Tripolitania is the oldest and most enduring problem in Libya. It's never been managed before and it will be an uphill struggle for the new republic. I pity the NTC, really. They have to pacify the militias, satisfy the feuding towns and tribes, try to rebuild a state out of nothing... Patience really will be needed, not a revolution every few months. At least the country is somewhat intact and the oil brings easy money. I can understand the protesters in Benghazi when they go all Zero Tolerance, but any practically acceptable solution will have to include some Truth and Reconciliation, especially for low-level Gadd-peons and pro-regime tribes. DeBaathification, you know? And this whole "late-comers to the revolution" thing is really counter-productive. Purity dick-waving never goes well. On another note, this semester, I did one term paper on the "Transformations of Nationalism in Libya" and another on "The Fall of Mubarak seen through Marx and Locke". This thread gave me so many media sources, so big thanks everyone for the discussion, especially Brown Moses, you are the best blue-starred CIA plant ever.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 12, 2011 21:52
|
|
|
"Brown Moses" quoting media posted:Other regular contributors include Yvonne Ridley, the former Sunday Express journalist kidnapped by the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001, who subsequently converted to Islam. Wait, what? How does a woman go to Afghanistan (jail for being raped!) and decide "Hey, that's for me!" I mean, everyone has a right to choose his own beliefs, but what reasoning would lead to this in those circumstances?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2012 18:20
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:30 |
|
|
Fangz posted:Thanks for making crude generalisations about Islam!  I wasn't talking about Islam in general at all, I was wondering about specifically converting(1) after being abducted by the very worst representatives you could find(2) in a country where women were in fact put in jail for daring to be raped!(3) As far as I know, those three are facts? If they aren't, then please tell me where I went wrong? I simply find it hard to rationally process how [events] lead to [conversion]. If I could see a logical relation, then I wouldn't be asking this question.* I'd have the same reaction to someone converting to Christianity after being abducted by the LRA in Uganda. *(like, say, the choice of black Americans to become Black Muslims which I find perfectly understandable and comprehensible)
|
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2012 21:18
|
|