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Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

fade5 posted:

You're welcome, glad to know people appreciate them.

Normally I can get a sense of how things are going to shake out, but right now I've just got no loving idea of what's gonna happen in the next couple weeks.

This is what makes me nervous as all gently caress, it looks like the Saudis really are gearing up to walk into the meatgrinder. Technically it hasn't happened yet, but it seems like there's been escalations every day, and as I said before Saudi Arabia has proven in Yemen that they will jump in headfirst into the dumbest loving fights.

Are there Saudi boots in Yemen or just air strikes?

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Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

What specific opposition group are the Kurds fighting here?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Assuming this is all really happening, it seems like the factions in this war are consolidating into SDF/Syria/Russia/Iran and Turkey/Arab States/FSA/Nusra? with ISIS continuing to be against all, but with the former alliance more opposed to it than the latter.

Where will the US/Europe go? Our main target is ISIS, but Turkey, which seems to care a lot more about killing Kurds than ISIS, is our NATO ally.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Charliegrs posted:

Holy crap get a load of this pic of the Assad family from before the war

Picture caption "Rare (& old) pic of the Assads. Bashar, Maher, Bushra, Anissa (now dead), Asef Shawkat (killed) & their kids. "

In an alternate universe, Bashar is still an opthamologist in the UK.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

fade5 posted:



https://twitter.com/QASIOUN_NEWS/status/700263825845719040

So at least 500 rebels, possibly as many as 2000. Either way, Turkey is helping the rebels to fortify and hold Azaz.

What flavor of rebels? If it's Nusra, I think we can expect this possible US/Turkey rift to grow.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Count Roland posted:

I don't like the whole WW3 bit, because it suggests Total War on a global scale. Since we have nuclear weapons, this seems to be the same thing as nuclear annihilation. Which I don't think (hopefully!) will happen.

I mean, WW1 and WW2 were basically Germany vs France, which snowballed. We can have another big war without calling it WW3, since its likely to be completely different from those. Yes I'm basically sperging out about the validity of the numbering system.

I do think this is the start (well, more like the end of the start) of a very big regional war, in which Iran plays a central role along with Arab states and now I guess Turkey too. By big I mean many millions killed, 10s of millions displaced, borders changes, ethnic cleansing, huge change in power and the like. I think Iraq will be the main battleground of this war, as its where Iranian influence meets that of the Arab world and other powers.

It certainly seems like things are coming to a head to create WW1-esque crisis that wraps up a whole lot of festering issues into one gigantic calamity - namely, the various Arab Winter civil wars, inclusive of Syria; Sunni/Shiite; Iran/Saudi; ISIS; "Radical Islamic Terrorism" in general; Iran/Israel; I/P; Turkey/Kurd; and now most ominously, NATO/Russia.

Then again, tensions could cool again for months or even years, and the situation calcifies into a stalemate before the next catalyst blows it up again. That's certainly been the I/P story for decades now.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

fade5 posted:

Welp, so much for that.:ughh: Can't ever have anything go right in the Middle East, that just doesn't happen.

New map of ISIL's assault on the SAA's Aleppo supply line.

ISIL really is like a stress/squeeze ball; they get pushed back on one front (Shaddadi in this case) and so they push forward on other (usually non-Kurdish) fronts instead. In this case they're pushing forward on the Aleppo supply road, we'll see how long it stays cut this time.


How much fighting do you think is going on between the Rebels and ISIS on that short little front they now have with each other? Would it be fair to say there's now something of a tacit alliance between Rebels/ISIS and SDF/SAA? Are there any moderate rebels left that are not now in the SDF?

Also, thanks for your great posts, fade5.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Any thoughts on how the attempted coup, purge, and likely creeping authoritarianism in Turkey is going to affect the Syrian Civil War? I'm guessing that none of this is going to exactly smooth things over with the Kurds.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003


Ash Carter is talking like he's personally in command of the YPG. Which doesn't make any sense, but I guess that explains why Erdogan is so bitchy. Speaking of which, how is Turkey going to react when the Kurds conquer the ISIS capital and thus, a whole lot more territory in Syria? (assuming success)

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201702101050525765-turkey-satisfied-russia-incident/

Russia and Turkey seem to be bound and determined to not gently caress up carving up Syria. Because that's what this is starting to look like. And it really makes a kind of surreal pall over the new nature of this war - Syria, the FSA, and the Kurds all kind of having a detente with each other while they jointly fight ISIS, while the radical rebels fight amongst themselves in their Idlib Bantuland.

Who knows if it'll hold once ISIS is gone, of course.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Willie Tomg posted:

Whats Qatar's ultimate motivation to play ball with the Saudis here?

The Saudi line seems to be a lot.of braggadocio and posturing for a country that can't even meaningfully bully starving rebels in the Yemeni hinterlands without US support and latino mercenaries.

Like, calling in Egypt and Libya doesn't seem like strength, from the position of an observer. It looks like they're calling in favors only a couple years old, and showing their brittleness instead.

They've cut air and land connections. If Qatar wants to still hold the World Cup, and more importantly, to eat, they'll have no choice but to acquiesce.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

MrNemo posted:

This absolutely is a consequence of lack of US involvement in the region. Much like Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, it seems pretty likely this was triggered by a US suggestion they wouldn't get involved (totally speculation on my part based on the timing but I cannot imagine Trump being told KSA wanted to deal with Qatari funding of terrorists and went 'we're troubled by the rise of extremism in the region and would certainly encourage trilateral talks but the US will absolutely not tolerate an escalation of tensions in the Gulf region'. You know he went 'absolutely, we hate those guys too. You need to defend your country, we're with you!' without for a second considering what that might mean). This is because the administration doesn't give a poo poo, the State department is without direction and the IC is probably more concerned with Russia and Syria. Possibly no one is pushing reports that might have signalled this brewing and certainly no one was asking for or willing to read them. US diplomacy is troubling and poo poo like Iraq 2.0 was horrible but if you want a clear picture of the US just withdrawing from the world stage I think we're getting a glimpse of that future. Next up Iran sends troops into Syria to secure its border (actually the US might actually do poo poo about that since Iran is a 'bad guy'. Maybe Erdogan genocides some Kurds?)

That's definitely what this administration feels like - the beginning of a death spiral for US imperialism. Maybe one good thing to come out of it, though it portends chaos for the near term.

I'd say up next is the Saudi-Iran cold war goes hot. It really seems like only a matter of time now.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

My guess is that the Saudi endgame is to induce a coup. Does the current emir have any ambitious cousins?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Brother Friendship posted:

I don't think that the SDF clashes with the regime are anything out of the ordinary when you consider what happened with the TFSA west of Manbij, or any incident where one party struck another when provoked. Two non aligned armies are settling next to each other and establishing a new set of front lines and there's going to be jostling and pushing the limits, especially on the Assadian side due to their objectives and overall character. Assadians -always- pushes the limits and only back downs when dealt with by force.

They're starting to fight before ISIS has even been defeated, i.e. the SAA is attacking the SDF at a time when the SDF is still very useful to them. I think this is the beginning of the next phase in the war. These factions are the most powerful left in the conflict, and they'll fight over the vacuum left behind by ISIS.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

I wonder how the rest of the royal family is reacting to this, particularly the deposed crown prince? This was clearly not a careful negotiation, but a huge "gently caress you" - he was relieved of ALL positions. But IIRC, Mohammed bin Nayef is no slouch...he was Minister of the Interior which in Saudi I think is similar to being head of the FBI.

I've got a feeling things could get interesting. MBN was made crown prince to appease his side of the family, since his father had been crown prince but died before the king did. Other al-Saud branches could see this as a craven power grab (which it probably is) and conservative elements are not likely to be too pleased with a 30 something upstart with wild plans for the future suddenly seizing power in a country traditionally ruled by geriatric kings. Should MBN try to respond in some way, it won't be too hard for him to find allies.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

SickZip posted:

Its a final looting of their country on the way out. Sell everything possible to suckers, move to london/new york/berlin and let it collapse.

Oil is declining, its getting hotter, the population is swelling with an unsustainable number of young unemployed fanatics. The country is living on borrowed time and theres a need to get all their money possible to places where their wealth will keep their head attached to necks


That's the most cynical view possible of Saudi Arabia's future, and probably also the most insightful and predictive.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Elyv posted:

Last I heard, there would be "unspecified consequences".

I think Qatar will call their bluff and SA will eat poo poo. Christ, they're not going invade ala Saddam. They're hoping that the blockade is enough of a stick, and it appears so far that Qatar is getting by ok regardless, and in fact is quite defiant in the face of this aggression.

I wonder if the inevitable failure of this ploy will cause the Allegiance Council to reconsider the status of the new crown prince.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Here's the catch: The US will never determine that Islamic State is "truly" defeated :smuggo:

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

How is Zero Hedge viewed around here? My guess is, "not great". Regardless, this is something I've been thinking about recently, especially with the succession shakeup. All it would really take for SA to fall into the abyss is a spark - perhaps the assassination, or even the attempted assassination, of the new crown prince.

You've got to wonder how US officials (at least whatever remaining ones have real connections and know-how of SA) view the rise of MBS. They probably don't like it. Given his hand in epic faceplants like Yemen and Qatar, they probably view him as an unreliable partner, especially in contrast with the former crown prince who worked closely with the US on counterterrorism operations for years.

I don't think we're about to drone him, but even the perception that the US had a hand in an assassination attempt on MBS would be disastrous.

quote:

Has Saudi Arabia's brinkmanship and heavy-handed policies of intervention in the Middle East come back to haunt the desert kingdom?

After decades of playing the role of middle man between foreign states and establishing itself as a regional power, Saudi Arabia's policies of meddling in the affairs of neighbor states and support for terror appear to have finally exacerbated issues in the country which could threaten to plunge it into chaos. Growing anger over attempted austerity cutbacks, economic issues due to the fluctuating price of oil and tell tale signs of royal disagreement over the successor to King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud mean that Saudi adventures abroad are preparing a perfect storm for civil conflict which could lead to further instability in the Middle East. The disruption comes as other states such as Iran and Turkey are positioning themselves as potential competitors to the de facto leader of the Arab world.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-29/saudi-arabia%E2%80%99s-march-towards-civil-war

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Count Roland posted:

Nothing really new here, but its a good summation of the US position in Syria.

Interesting analysis. I also wonder about the Arabs under PYD rule - how will they react after ISIS is gone? Will they begin to chafe under Kurdish domination?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003


To add to this - Saudi Arabia's political unsustainability and aggressive (and maybe kind of dumb) new crown prince; the Ayatollah's recent attempts to sideline their moderate president; and maybe also Trump needing to wag the dog for 2020. Soon it will take just one well-timed fuckup and the rest of the dominoes fall.

Anyone want to make the case for why a war with Iran won't happen?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/kurds-high-alert-iraqi-forces-mass-kirkuk-171013081422969.html

Thoughts on this? Unless I'm missing something, a new civil war between Kurdistan and Iraq could be cataclysmic, and would probably spread to Syria, where similar tensions are brewing.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

qkkl posted:

Does Iran still not like Iraq because of their war, or has that changed since Saddam got deposed since both are majority Shia?

Iran has entrenched itself in Iraq, economically and politically.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003


On a scale from one to ten, how much of a poseur is this guy? I can't help the feeling that he's naively biting off way more than he can chew here and is in for a rude awakening when he becomes king...if he even gets there.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

I've probably repeated this in this thread before, but I've got a gut feeling that MBS is biting off way more than he can chew. He has to be pissing off some princes that still retain considerable power, what with the purges of the previous crown prince (who headed the Interior ministry, basically their FBI), and all these other princes and businessmen today. He's already proven himself to be a hothead with poor judgement and strategic thinking, what with the Yemen debacle and the failed Qatar embargo. And he'd be a young head of state anywhere, but this is a country where kings ascend at about the same age as popes do. Whether it's now or after he becomes king, someone has to be plotting behind the scenes to wipe that poo poo-eating grin off the crown prince's face.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Emanuel Collective posted:

And assuming the Hariri "resignation" is part of MBS's plan, he just made himself some new enemies in a country they can't afford to piss off too much

That's some wheels within wheels kind of poo poo. I don't know much about Hariri, other than him being in a pro-Saudi faction. How does his resignation play into the plan?

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003


Whoa, who were these dudes? Is our young hero straight up murdering his cousins?

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Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

So, I've got a flight from New York to Bangkok via Qatar in two weeks...should I rethink it? Is poo poo about to hit the fan or am I being :tinfoil:?

https://twitter.com/AP/status/927355812888088576

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