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Glad to see these threads still going strong. I was really active in the Egypt one and took a few days away when Mubarak fell for work and just to detach myself from it. The intensity was starting to get too much for me and I'm half-way across the globe from Egypt! Egyptian prosecutors have ordered the arrest of former ruling party chief and three other ministers from the Mubarak government. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/17/egypt.revolution.arrests/
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Feb 17, 2011 22:15
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Bahrain is going to be a blood bath before it's over (even more than it already is). It doesn't help that the region is perceiving this as an entirely Iranian-backed uprising against Sunni's in general and this really gives the United State's some leverage to use to frame any involvement that the U.S. may take as being noble and with "national security" aims. They were just showing some images on Al-J earlier of Bahrainian military personnel firing tear gas canisters in rapid succession at protesters a mere 5-10 feet away from them. Now that is something that would leave people wishing they had been shot rather than hit with a flaming projectile that can weigh upwards of a pound in the chest/neck/head/back. That is just cruelty in it's worst form.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:45
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AP radio news had a report this morning about Gadaffi using his Air Force to attack a Mosque where protesters were holding out (I believe this was in Az-Zaqiyah). Also, check this report out: http://www.examiner.com/airlines-airport-in-national/libyan-pilots-eject-rather-than-bomb-civilians Pilots just bailing out and letting their planes crash rather than bomb protesters. NATO was talking about declaring Libya a No-Fly Zone and enforcing it against the Libyan Air Force that were being used to bomb the protesters. NATO then backed off that plan this morning: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022402348.html
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Feb 24, 2011 14:33
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Brown Moses posted:Gaddafi is apparently doing to be talking to only West Libyans in his upcoming address, guess he's given up on the East. Bet he says the East is under the control of Al Qaeda. I would think that using Mustard Gas would just be an invitation for the UN to be forced to take action, whatever that may be (strongly worded letter, military action, etc.). In a world that is far more aware of the threat of WMD's, that is something that would almost certainly cause people to make notice. AJ-E was showing protesters that had taken entire military stockpiles, including tanks and heavy artillery, mostly in the East of Libya. That's pretty impressive and could certainly even the odds.
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Feb 24, 2011 15:09
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It sounds like he's in a bunker with only a phone and a metal chair, that he's squeaking across the floor nervously. And wow, he just keeps droning on and on about kids and kids disobeying their parents, Queen Elizabeth, and something about drooling. His analogies are just bizarre to say the least
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Feb 24, 2011 15:29
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Are these references to Bin Laden and Al-Quada supposed to be some kind of deterrent to the Western Powers taking some kind of action against Libya? I just can't figure it out at all. Now Bin Laden and America want to kill your kids? Now he's saying that parents are responsible and kids should hold them accountable? This would be great comedy if it weren't so serious.
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Feb 24, 2011 15:32
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Wiz posted:They've said they don't want a divided Libya. I think he means declare independence as in create a breakoff state and declare war with the intent to re-unify the contry. It's been suggested by some intelligence "experts" that it could conceivably happen, especially since much of the Eastern half of the country has already been taken and much of the military infrastructure in that area is in protester control. I doubt it would happen, but given his propensity to use extreme force against these protesters, I wouldn't discount it entirely.
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Feb 24, 2011 15:37
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Don't expect the UN to do much of anything, as if that is a surprise, because it seems Russia and China are doing everything they can to prop up Gaddafi in every discussion that they have about Libya and the current situation. Russia has a hell of a lot at stake in keeping Gadaffi in power, because they are single biggest investor in the oil & gas sectors in Libya. Still, it does seem as if the U.N. is trying to take a stronger position to the current crisis, but it will probably be too little, too late.
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Feb 25, 2011 15:12
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I'm not big on suggesting the International Community get involved in any way militarily and I think the reaction thus far has been fairly well measured to keep their citizens safe until evacuation. The only think that I've thought might have been called for is when the Libyan Air Force was used against their protesters, an international "no fly zone" would have kept that in check. Luckily, it seems that very few actually carried those orders out so the need for such was minimal. But if it had escalated even further, would this have been something that could have been feasible and called for? I don't know but air power is a very scary thing when it comes to mostly unarmed, peaceful protesters.
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Feb 25, 2011 16:08
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Jut posted:Jesus Christ, enough of the UN hate, I know that's the trend in the US but christ! The UN is not mandated to intervene in conflicts unless a genocide is taking place. When the definition of genocide was drawn up, it didn't include 'political groups' due to a certain Russian dude. I wasn't hating on the U.N., just stating my opinion that they wouldn't act because of the current makeup of the security council.
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Feb 25, 2011 20:45
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euphronius posted:Also while it is true the UN SC can in theory do pretty much anything it wants the UN Charter does contain specific language which says the the UN should not intervene in affairs in the domestic jurisdiction of a member state. This idea also has high customary law precedence as well. There's no doubt about that at all and I don't disagree with the intent either. My main point was to illustrate the influence that China and Russia have on the UNSC and their respective ties to Libya, vis-a-vis Oil & Natural Gas interests. This connection would make it hard for anything to be accomplished at the UN Level even if it met the criteria for action to be taken.
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Feb 25, 2011 20:54
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Jut posted:They won't act because it's not in the Security councils mandate to act unless a genocide is going on. Not yet, but they have been investing heavily in those sectors over the past 4 or 5 years, so they do have a vested interest in the powers that be.
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Feb 25, 2011 21:34
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Jut posted:Ok it's a "armed conflict not of an international character", maybe you didn't notice but the anti-Govt protests are armed too. To be fair, I'll be glad to bitch about the United States stepping all over business in the U.N. to fit their needs, just like Russia and China. It's a political body and that's to be expected. I'm not sure what anyone would expect the UN to do, given it's authority. I'm just glad that there is at least some recognition of the situation and that some of the member states are acting in unison. I think that's a good thing to come out of this body. I'm a liberal by the way, just to head off any accusation of being a conservative because of my "BUT RUSSIA AND CHINA!" comments. *E* I would be interested in the NO FLY ZONE proposal. Have we heard of any more Air Force involvement in suppression of the revolution? If so, this might be something to seriously take into consideration.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:46
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VikingSkull posted:A no-fly zone isn't out of the realm of possibility, but it's going to take some time to get the political will behind it and then set it up. Peacekeepers are a ways off at best, and a coalition of the willing with a UN mandate behind it isn't going to happen at all. It probably will happen, if the acts of violence and suppression from Air Power continue. It's probably the "easiest" action that could be taken without an extreme appearance of outside meddling in the countries affairs. Logistically, it's much easier to send a carrier group offshore than it is to mobilize peacekeepers and figure that mess out. There's probably already several carrier groups from various nations in the area that could get stationed fairly quickly, given authorization and orders.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:55
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euphronius posted:You would not need a carrier group I'd think. Libya is easily reachable from European and Asian air bases I wager. Probably not. I was mainly thinking about the United States (see even us liberals get a U.S. centric viewpoint from time to time!). I'm sure some European countries wouldn't mind their bases being used and the U.S. bases in Europe are hosted primarily in countries that would most likely already be on board.
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Feb 25, 2011 22:59
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Mr.Showtime posted:I am shocked that the new old regime in Egypt is doing the same that the old old regime did! I am a little bit shocked at how fast they resorted to their old tactics, however. They have to know that the international community is watching what happens in Egypt with a very fine microscope, both for their concern for Egypt and their own interests. It doesn't make sense that the military junta would crack down now and basically de-legitimize all of the good will that they've built up since the revolution started. Of course, they may just think that everyone is paying attention to Libya and hope no one notices.
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Feb 26, 2011 00:59
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Mr.Showtime posted:They also know that most of the international community waits and waits and waits to give a poo poo until they know that the regime is going to topple then says something. Provided they only beat protestors and don't just start machine gunning them like in Libya the international community doesn't really care. The US and CIA are so up in the Egyptian militaries business there's no way that they want anything but the status quo to continue. That's probably very true. It's just surprising that they would do it so soon after they relatively peaceful fall of the Mubarak regime.
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Feb 26, 2011 01:11
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Lycus posted:This Libyan Minister of Immigration on AJE is definitely not a camera-person. That is an awesome hair do though.
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Feb 26, 2011 01:18
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Pureauthor posted:I guess I stopped paying attention to Egypt once Mubarak got kicked out, but what are the current protesters still in Tahrir actually demanding? Or are they just milling around and waiting for something? The last I heard, they wanted the military to name all new cabinet members because some of those left in power are hold-overs from the Mubarak regime and they felt that 1.) Corruption and the complaints from Mubarak would still be in effect (most are) and 2.) The cabinet ministers are very, very slow to respond to demands and seem to not be very transparent about the election plans.
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Feb 26, 2011 01:58
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Brown Moses posted:From the Guardian: I've also heard that the EU & the US are trying to devise a plan for a no-fly zone that utilizes air power from another Arab country rather than flying their own patrols. They see this as a better alternative that doesn't insert unneeded Western military influence into the equation.
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Feb 28, 2011 17:01
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Frozen Horse posted:Given the recent advances by the rebel forces, it may be worth considering minimal intervention strategies. One idea, gas up the Libyan planes on Malta, replace the air-to-ground rocket pods with air-to-air missiles, apply a rattle-can roundel with the old flag's colours, and let the Libyans lead the enforcement of their own no-fly zone. Also, set up defection-corridor safe zones and leaflet these routes with copies of the Malta approach chart over Libyan bases. I'm starting to realise that although too little intervention would lead to more of a bloodbath, too much intervention would prevent this from being an ultimate referendum by the Libyan people. I think you are correct. The only downside that I could see with a Libyan-led enforcement of a No-Fly Zone is that it would give cover to widespread atrocities on the ground with the official line being "THE WEST IS ARMING MERCS TO BOMB US! LOOK!". Of course, this could happen with a neutral force patrolling the no-fly zone, but there would at least in theory be a way to prove that "X" nations air forces did not drop any bombs. But I completely agree that it needs to be done with as little of a western military footprint as possible.
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Feb 28, 2011 17:49
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Brown Moses posted:More like last chance for Gaddafi. He might find it a bit difficult to pay some of those mercenaries now: Well, at least he's on the right track when he says "America isn't the international police of the world". Now if only we could get some of the people inside the United States ruling powers to realize the same thing, but there's money to be made in perpetual war so that won't go far.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:52
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roundmidnight posted:Gaddafi is JaMarcus Russell, complete with syrup and skittles. I was going with Brady Quinn, but this works too.
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Feb 28, 2011 21:08
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I'm wondering what the commanders of the air base that defected to the revolution are doing and if they are involved in/planning any sort of operations that might be directed at protecting the revolution (or breaking the regime) That air power is a major force to be reckoned with. They are a strong deterrent to any sort of offensive taken by Gadaffi to retake positions lost. If they have indeed defected, they could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. Unless the UN imposes the No-Fly Zone, these guys are a major card in the revolutions hand. Furious Mittens fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Mar 1, 2011 |
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Mar 1, 2011 01:07
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There is an interview on AL-J right now that is amazing. It's with the Italian Foreign Minister and the anchor is ruthlessly grilling him about Berlesconi's refusal to condemn the actions of CQ and the Foreign Minister laughed when the anchor asked why Silvio said that he wouldn't call CQ because "he didn't want to disturb him". You could tell that the Foreign Mnister was ready to crack up laughing at the craziness of his own leader, so he just gave a slight laugh and big grin and changed the subject. Then he got nailed to the wall on the issue of refugee's from Libya. Now he's getting drilled on how Italy is balking at sanctions because it's going to hurt their economic ties with the CQ regime. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I loving love AL-J. The sum up his entire appearance: "Italy is cool, Libya is for Libyans, we talk about things with the EU and the US, we do a lot of things that I refuse to tell you about, but seriously guys let's just let someone else handle this one - HEY LOOK OVER THERE! It's the EU! I bet they have more money than us!" Furious Mittens fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 1, 2011 |
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Mar 1, 2011 17:41
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Toplowtech posted:Alain Juppé is the new French Minister of Foreign and European Affairs. He was also Minister of Foreign and European Affairs from 1993 to 1995 (the Rwandan Genocide happened in 1994). The Italians were dragging their feet yesterday and playing coy about the influx of refugees, some being turned away. Berlusconi loves CQ and has been very hesitant to take a hard stance against him. The Italian Foreign Minister was on Al-J yesterday and he did everything but just come out and say "someone else handle this". With the news of renewed air strikes against rebel fighters, I think we'll see swift action from the UN on implementing a No-Fly Zone. Additionally, I believe that military action (mostly air strikes) are probably going to get a lot more discussed and considered in light of this. That's not to say anything about clandestine operations that might be taking place inside Libya. I think we're at the point where this crosses completely over to civil war territory and CQ has demonstrated that he's not going down without a fight. I'm of the mind that it's going to get really bad sooner rather than later.
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Mar 2, 2011 15:17
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Namarrgon posted:Any real oil narratives don't hold water seeing as Gaddafi was more than happy to sell it off and poo poo in gold toilets with the profit. I suppose in a way this could be some sort of a 'reset' to who gets the oil though. And that's primarily why foreign oil interests are either making GBS threads bricks or rubbing their black-gold covered hands together in glee. A new regime means new contracts and either a revisiting or an entire reversal of current standing ones. Considering how much Gaddafi was involved in this sector personally, I'd expect an entire reversal of most contracts and that means a lot of western companies getting back into that action.
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Aug 23, 2011 15:14
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Scratch Monkey posted:Speaking of Wow. I've never seen someone so full of bullshit like that since the Iraqi Information Minister. The rebels rolling into Tripoli by sea and land was all a ruse set up by the regime just to get their names and faces? Seems like someone didn't think their cunning plan all the way through.
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Aug 23, 2011 15:49
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CNN just reported that reporters are being "held hostage" at the Rixos and strong explosions from that area. Not sure if they are just conjecturing/sensationalizing or have some new information to report. As usual, they just mention it and move on without following up. Keeping an eye on this.
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Aug 23, 2011 16:34
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Fog Tripper posted:My money is on Gadaffy holding out in the basement of the hotel all of the press is holed up in. It seems to be the biggest "secure" area that is still held by the regime in Tripoli, so it may not be far off the mark.
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Aug 23, 2011 16:50
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Something big is on fire in the middle of the Tripoli live shot on Al-J. Earlier, there were two fires on either side of the frame, now there is just one massive black plume in the middle, behind the taller buildings in the middle. Anyone know where that shot might be relative to major action that we know of?
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Aug 23, 2011 17:02
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Ace Oliveira posted:Have they cleared the underground part of the base, yet? As big as the compound is, it's likely going to be a bloody battle fought room to room (if Gaddafi is intent on becoming a martyr) and that's just the area we know about. The underground part is probably sprawling as well. Now they are showing rebels hanging from the Gaddafi fist statue with the airplane in the fist, trying to break it apart. It's actually pretty comical. Furious Mittens fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 23, 2011 |
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Aug 23, 2011 17:06
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They have covered so much ground in such a short amount of time, I really hope that they are prepared to defend those gains from pockets of Pro-regime forces that are bound to pop up and make life extremely miserable for those caught inside. It looks like they've made it all the way to the inside of the compound, judging by the photos.
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Aug 23, 2011 17:14
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^^^^ Probably true, but fanatics can cause a lot of trouble even in small numbers, and air power doesn't mean much if they want to carry out an insurgency of some sort. It seems te only resistance reports that are coming out are regime snipers taking pot shots and then withdrawing. Hopefully they can round them up in short order.Darth123123 posted:So I'm not seeing any CQ forces, dead or alive. And the inside of that compound is SHOT. UP. There was a shot on AL-J briefly of rebels bringing what looked to be an African (perhaps a merc from surrounding nations) male in a red shirt, with his arms tied behind his back out of one of the compound buildings and ushering him into a waiting Nissan rebel kill-dozer truck. Furious Mittens fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Aug 23, 2011 |
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Aug 23, 2011 17:20
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They show a group of guys pushing a Hyundai away and the Al-J announcer calls it "a rather high end car". Hell, those Nissan kill-dozer trucks are more high end than that, at least in the States! Did you guys see that Nissan kill-dozer with the giant FLAK cannon in the back? They fired it and it looked like that truck was kicked back 50 yards from the burst! Balls of steel to be manning that thing and the guy behind the wheel standing on the e-brake.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:04
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Holy poo poo, that's a hell of a lot of ammo being fired in the ear of that reporter! (Celebration fire)
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Aug 23, 2011 18:08
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NOBEARD posted:Al Jazeera is the loving best. My favorite was the 6-8 year old kid in a Man. U. jersey being helped by an adult rebel, firing his Kalishnikov into the air. *E* AL-J Arabic is showing what appears to be a rebel leader addressing the media on the grounds of the compound.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:10
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Nuclear Spoon posted:
Yeah, I think it was AC Milan. Forgive my American-ness and not knowing my football jerseys.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:14
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They *really* want that fist/plane statue down, but all they can come up with is to spray paint it and hang off it trying to break it.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:21
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Rip Testes posted:I bet that RT guy there didn't need much convincing and was probably the first one upstairs. Lizzie Cocker/Phelan is probably passing out flowers and screaming "all is well, long live the Colonel! The government still controls Libya!"
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Aug 23, 2011 18:23
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