The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Dorkroom > The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

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evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

plasmoduck posted:

Thanks a lot =), I thought the film thread was more about developing, but now that I see people also talk about gear I will give it a try.

The film P&S thread will have what you need.

Costello Jello posted:

Sounds like somebody has never been in a thread of Canon and Nikon DSLR owners.

TBH both camps are pretty reasonable on here. Other boards, not so much.

Shmoogy posted:

A 3 million dot OLED EVF would catch my interest.

Pretty sure that's the back screen, not the one in the EVF. I don't think anyone makes anything that good in such a sall package.

ChiTownEddie posted:

It worked pretty well! I could even judge dof while intoxicated...

Best thing since sliced bread for cameras without an OVF. It's really, really awesome.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jul 22, 2011

# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 12:36

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 17:40

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

HPL posted:

I think you'd have better luck building a phone into a camera rather that the other way around. It's nice having phones without camera bumps.

Imagine how loving awesome it'd be to have a NEX type camera with an ipod dock in the back.

Paragon8 posted:

Oh yeah, 2-3 years was probably too short. It is the internet, I'm obligated to not put that much thought into what I'm saying. I'd say it'd be closer to 10 years rather than 20.

I don't think anyone has a clue what we'll be shooting, let alone calling with (if we're still calling at all) in 10 years.

I almost never text anymore (only time-sensitive stuff), and I call more on skype than on my phone.

Paragon8 posted:

People have overwhelmingly shifted to using cameras with an LCD screen held away from their face in the past 6-8 years. They'll get used to new generation camera phones soon enough.

You can't dodge basic physics. Bigger sensors need bigger lenses. People won't start carrying phones with big optics, but what fits in most people's idea of a phone will keep getting better. Just not better that what you can get in a dedicated device.

Paragon8 posted:

The real killer app for the consumer camera market would be to hook onto a mobile network and auto upload your photos to Facebook. Not even bother with a memory card but just have internal flash storage.

No one will make this but the killer app would be a PAN that actually works instead of trying to lock you into a single manufacturer's stuff.

Paragon8 posted:

I think EVILs are an interesting way for camera manufacturers to create a new market - because interchangeable lenses are going to be the one thing you'll never find on a P&S and the EVILs are going to make it seem more friendly and less "pro" to the casual user to buy into a friendly and simple system.

But EVILs aren't simpler (or much cheaper) than entry level DSLR's, just smaller, which is what people do want.

Paragon8 posted:

Look at how often people come into the gear threads here confused and bewildered by the amount of lens choices. With these you could just say "buy x and y" because that's really all that's available.

Are you trying to argue that less choice is a good thing?

unixbeard posted:

Yeah ok i didn't really think about that and thought it might have some wacky impact DoF or something. I'm thinking about it cause my D40 is getting a bit long in the tooth, if theres something that fits in my pocket and is good for general snaps it'd be pretty cool, especially if it does video and stuff properly.

Any M43 EVIL with a small prime can do this already. The problem with NEX is that they are no reasonable full-featured primes (like the Pana 20/1.7)

poopinmymouth posted:

Yeah the Nex and X100's make sense, the Pentax Q and Nikon don't. I'll pay the same price as a dslr for the same IQ in a smaller package, but not for this tiny sensor stuff.

I think this is the general feeling among people who've been shooting DSLR's a while.

Beastruction posted:

Just like Micro 4/3 when the NEX came out. What the hell is up with mirrorless cameras

Turns out it's pretty hard to make that stuff, and harder still to find non-retards for the business side of your operation.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 24, 2011

# ¿ Sep 24, 2011 10:33

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Augmented Dickey posted:

Buy an old AI 50mm manual focus lens. It doesent make any send to spend extra money for an autofocus lens if you're just going to use it on a body that won't support AF. A MF lens will also probably be much more compact and built better.

And if you need to focus manually, an AI lens will have a much better ring, with a much lower gearing allowing you to be more precise.

HPL posted:

If you can superimpose things on the OVF, you could put frame lines on it.

The most awesome thing would be to superimpose peaking info onto an OVF.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Nov 18, 2011

# ¿ Nov 18, 2011 10:53

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Im That One Guy posted:

To be honest I find the price a bit hard to believe seeing how some sites are billing this as a cheaper X-Pro 1 and the camera below that, the X100, is still $1200

Can't wait to see how it stacks up with the canon

Beastruction posted:

That seems optimistic.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2012 00:32

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

I'd get an RX-1 but Wife would probably put my D800 through my head right after.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2012 14:23

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

alkanphel posted:

You can hope that Olympus releases a firmware that unlocks focus peaking in the OM-D.

It's a crying shame anyone still makes bodies with live view but no peaking in YOOL 2012

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 13:23

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

bobfather posted:

Hey, I'd be pleased as punch if Sony did this one right.

The problem is they have proven time and time again that they can't get compelling lenses to market for their camera systems that are reasonably priced.

You only need to look at nex to understand the kind of poo poo Sony gives about lens lineups.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2013 10:04

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

I don't think you'll find anyone to poop on the A7 as a camera. Right now it's just a poo poo system to get into, and Sony has a less than stellar track record.

If/when Sigma pulls their usual move of putting out the lenses that first-parties are always too obtuse to offer, it'll be great.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2013 15:55

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

thetzar posted:

And it's unfortunate that Sony's primes are so pricey, but they aren't the only ones releasing expensive primes these days.

It's the fact that the first one out the gate is 1k (and not 50. And 1.8) that's grating.

Noctons have always been specialized, superspendy tools. There's a reason the vintage models go for ridiculous amounts, but there are alternatives.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2013 16:00

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Claw Massage posted:

Samyang announced five lenses for the new a7 :

Samyang 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC
Samyang 24mm f/1.4 ED AS IF UMC
Samyang T-S 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC
Samyang 35mm f/1.4 AS UMC
Samyang 85mm f/1.4 AS IF UMC

http://samyang-europe.com/index.php/configuration/press-releases/78-samyang-ready-for-e-mount-full-frame

Oh look, a prime lineup that's actually useful!

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 19, 2013

# ¿ Oct 19, 2013 00:06

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Huxley posted:

Those are all MF, though, right? Or have I misread about them today?

Yes, I was commenting on the choice of speeds and focal length, not features. Sorry.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2013 16:14

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

And nobody will give a poo poo!

# ¿ Oct 23, 2013 14:09

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Bird Law posted:

I've only ever took pictures with a point and shoot or a cell, and for a brief time a Nikon D90, now I'm looking at a compact system / mirrorless camera. Pictures will be mainly for travel and kids, so I want something better than a point and shoot but nowhere near the bulk of a DSLR. I'd even like to stay away from a big zoom lens kit if possible, just to keep the size down.

Are there any good budget or entry level options for mirrorless cameras, maybe around $500? Everything I've found that I liked (I love Fujifilm's style, the X100s seems like exactly what I'm looking for) was around $1,000. I'd really like to avoid spending that as I'm just getting into this hobby, but I also don't want to buy something and be disappointed in the image quality because I went cheap.

Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 and the best M43 body you can afford. When the bodies get refreshed, the older ones practically get given away (especially at the lower end of the range).

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 31, 2013

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 16:42

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Casu Marzu posted:

Welp. My 60D missed a stupid simple tracking shot on a great horned owl today. I've had it with this camera. Any y'all have an OMD EM1 yet? I'm curious how much better the AF is compared to the EM5.

You'd go to M43 to improve on one of DSLRs' strongest advantages? Get a body/system with good AF.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2013 00:05

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Casu Marzu posted:

The only thing that keeps me with Canon is my 100-400. Such a nice lens.

So grab a gently used 7D and get on with your life.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2013 16:51

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Mr. Despair posted:

With a rubber band it doubles as a free intervalometer

Haha that's amazing. Also I can't believe they haven't fixed their shutters yet.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2013 17:16

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

IanTheM posted:

I thought it's that at certain shutter speeds a vibration travels through the body of the camera when the shutter clamps down?

As despair said, it's a property of the mirrorless body's shutter needing to close before it opens again for the actual exposure.
A mirrorless camera's shutter needs to be open for composing, so each exposure is actually 2 shutter cycles.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 01:43

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

spankmeister posted:

Idgi, can you explain?

pause introduced by anti-shock + continuous shooting + rubber on shutter release.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 09:13

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Elliotw2 posted:

Is E-mount a second rate system at this point though? It has a lot more of the common lenses now, and it's growing faster since the announcement of the a7.

Even Samsung has a better first party lineup :laugh:

# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 21:21

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

thetzar posted:

Speaking of Leica enthusiasts without Leica money, who's buying an A7 or A7r?

Maybe when they have more than 3 lenses.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 12:52

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

krooj posted:

28/35/50 or death.

Yeah buddy you can pry my 85 from my cold dead hands.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 17:54

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Elliotw2 posted:

Apparently the A7r doesn't have the electric front shutter, for whatever dumb reason.

Same reason it doesn't have hybrid PDAF: it's a different sensor (i would guess d800e-derived) shoehorned into the same body.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2013 13:30

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Either would serve you fine, but the XE will be more flexible (obviously). Also you could get a prime with the rest of the money.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2013 20:31

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Apparently the kit isn't so hot?

Also $800 for a 35/2.8 that's good but not great is pretty laffo.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 01:47

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Musket posted:

Lets not kick a man while he is down.

The man isn't down, and he's selling overpriced junk to people who don't know better.

I swear if Sony had a lineup like Fuji they'd crush so hard. Instead it's just overpriced and undesirable as far as the eye can see.

When canon makes a $150 40/2.8 that's a pancake on top of being decent, it takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to put out that 35FE.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 01:58

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

whatever7 posted:

The sale of mirrorless systems (specially the Nikon1 and EOS M)are so bad in American both of them are basically delaying the announcement of new mirrorless bodies.

Canon was going to release a NEX-6/XE1 type body with the EVF but they are putting the whole EOS M program on hold and release a minor upgrade of the EOS M and call it "M2" in Japan.

I don't know what will it take for the 'Muricans starting buying mirorless to replace the low and mid range SLR. Maybe Americans will never switch to mirrorless. Maybe 3 years from now, the rest of the world have switched all the low/mid end interchangeable bodies to mirrorless and the US sales chart is still dominated by entry level DSLR and 18-55 kit lens like F150 pickup trucks.

whatever7 posted:

I don't know what will it take for the 'Muricans starting buying mirorless

They buy plenty of good mirrorless systems.

Musket posted:

EOS M2 will be Asia markets only from the looks of it. Canon and Nikon are very late to the mirrorless game. They should have just kept to making GBS threads out entry level dslrs. Most Americans and uneducated photo-idiots are size queens and think that mirrorless cameras are the Geo Metro of cameras, making them worthless.

Funny how that in no way prevents Pana/Oly/Fuji from releasing a gazillion bodies and lenses.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2013 23:12

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Spime Wrangler posted:

Panasonic, olympus, and fuji are in the business of stealing market share from DSLRs, and still have a lot of work to do before they can rival the depth and versatility of Canon's and Nikon's offerings.

Likewise, Canon and Nikon are in the business of getting people locked into their systems so that they continue to upgrade within the product family. Getting people to switch from their DSLRs to mirrorless doesn't really help that much.

You mean to tell me you can't have your cake and eat it too?

# ¿ Dec 9, 2013 23:54

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Pablo Bluth posted:

Nikon might have hobbled themselves with the choice of a small sensor, but there's no doubt they went full out to make the best camera they could. From day 1, they threw everything they could at it to make speed a hallmark of the system.

It'd make perfect sense if they were the only camera manufacturer in the world, sure.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2013 01:02

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

fknlo posted:

On the EOS M talk, Newegg has it with the 18-55mm lens for $279 right now.

At this price it's an alright alternative to a premium compact.
A PEN will still run circles around it, but you can't get that IQ for $300.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2013 15:07

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Microlens arrays don't really allow that though.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 01:19

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Paul MaudDib posted:

How do you mean? The lens will be at its proper register distance, it should be less susceptible to weird effects than the lenses designed for the system.

I mean this part:

Bob Socko posted:

My a99 worked great with the Zeiss 24 & 85, as well as the Minolta 35/2. Since the a7 supposedly uses the same sensor as the a99, image quality should be the same with the LA-EA4.

assumes the existing lenses will be as good adapted on an A7 as used natively, which won't be true if the array's optimized for nex-native lenses.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 13:26

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

It's a japanese electronics company. It literally took them 10 years to get a semi-decent DSLR UI, and you expect usability out of the box? Surely you jest. Surely.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 20:29

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Elliotw2 posted:

You can get both of them for $1200 on Amazon new, is that a good reason?

You loving enabler

# ¿ Dec 14, 2013 00:42

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Mr. Despair posted:

Or get an om-d, which doesn't really have any of those issues that you described.

You get a resonating shutter instead!

# ¿ Dec 14, 2013 11:01

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

dodob posted:

Anyone using half-cases on their mirrorless? Why is it that leather cases/half-cases seem to be a thing for mirrorless cameras? Is it because of their smaller size, or is it because of the retro factor? I've never seen a DSLR with a half-case before.

Size, looks, and small DSLRs have such low clearance between lens and grip that a half case bottom would make them impractical.

dodob posted:

Sony has a whole line-up of full-cases and half-cases for their NEX cameras. I just received my leather full-case for the A7 (I only use the bottom half-case; wish it were available without the top case), and it improves the grip tremendously. My pinky has somewhere to rest, my entire palm is supporting the camera -- I cannot overstate how much better the camera feels in the hand with the case. However, the half-case blocks the memory card slot and the battery slot, as well as the USB port. Screwing and unscrewing the tripod mount every time I come home and want to get a picture is nuts. Wi-fi transfer helps, but not being able to charge the phone without disassembling the setup seems like an oversight.

Making the cases modular is a big tradeoff in size and weight, so you end with retardation like this. Same with buying a microscopic mirrorless body and adding grips so it's actually comfortable to shoot with.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 19, 2013

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 15:33

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

whatever7 posted:

I keep buying cheap Canon parts to boil on the EOSM even though I want to get rid of it. Sooner or later I will have a whole system. Sigh.

in 3 years I'm sure they'll have good AF :laugh:

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 16:45

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

whatever7 posted:

I may keep it around and pick up a Canon mount Tokina 11-16mm later. Since the Fuji 10-24mm is so big and expensive I don't see myself getting it.

LBR for the $300 or so it costs now it's a loving amazing camera.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 18:57

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Bob Socko posted:

The learning curve is a little steep, but you'll be really happy with your results.

IE: jesus loving christ those menus are retarded help me

bung posted:

Of course I'll have to pay the ridiculously high 13% HST

ignorance is bliss

# ¿ Dec 29, 2013 13:45

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Mr. Despair posted:

they both suck

hail satan

# ¿ Dec 29, 2013 19:04

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 17:40

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

You mean the eyecup. And yeah, glass wearers will not get the full finder because the deeper cup added to the eyeglass places their eye behind the eyepoint.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2013 19:31

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > The Dorkroom > The Mirrorless Thread: Son(y), I Am Disappoint.

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