The Verizon Wireless Megathread: Tears for tiers

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kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Zonekeeper posted:

drat, the Thunderbolt goes up to $199 if you're on a family plan

In fact, all the phones have about $70 tacked on from the individual price if you're on a family plan. Why the hell would they do that?

Because Amazon gets paid less for renewing a secondary line which to Verizon only pulls in $9.99 in base-access revenue every month.

It sucks, I know, but I get it. Verizon subjects their own sales reps to the same reduced-payout for secondary line contract renewals.

# ¿ May 30, 2011 19:00

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 08:02

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Super Dude posted:

Is 4g really that important? I've never owned a smartphone so I'm not really sure what 3g speeds are like. What's the best 3g phone? The X2 and Xperia Play looked nice.

I've seen speed test runs range from 7mbps to 38mbps with 30-90ms.

And yes I'd pick the x2 out of all the 3g phones we currently have. 4G is about to drop in my area too but I'm unimpressed with the phone selection. Not sure if I can wait until late summer for Motorola's first 4G Verizon phone.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2011 08:03

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Rye Bread posted:

Sluggishness, random reboots, phone turning completely off, screen turning off and not coming back on, unresponsive buttons, speaker (both ear and speakerphone) and microphone not working at all on calls.. battery pull usually fixes it, but we shouldn't have to do it every 3 hours.
It was even rooted to remove bloatware to see if it was memory issues.
My company uses droid x's for management, and they all have the same issues (just not to the extent of hers). So it's not just a bad device.

I was hoping for it being a tegra , but I know there were issues with the lte.

This is bizarre to me.

I've had 2 droid X's since launch day(7/15/10) and both get very, very heavy use. One of them has over 80 applications.

I've never had to get a replacement. I've had power cycle issues, seen delays in the screen waking up, etc. Since 2.3, I haven't had any issues, period. For me and everyone I know that I've recommended it to, it's been nothing but a solid phone.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2011 04:27

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Duckman2008 posted:

That answers that then. Weird thing is my friend loves working there, and is a pretty ethical Guy. He insists the best part is commissions getting split between everyone working at the time, so even if you have bad luck and get service questions all day, you still make money. That's how I loosely have my sprint store run, that way people just take care of the customer. Meh, sprints been taking care of me fine anyway.

Are your reps fairly motivated? I would hate working in a split commission setting. I would imagine it would allow too much dead weight and not properly reward people for their individual work.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2011 20:14

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

SpacedOut posted:

There isn't. Android, iOS, WiMo 7, & WebOS all use the same feature code, RIM has it's own code for BIS & yet another one for BES, & dumbphones also have their own unlimited data feature code.

This is correct. Only RIM has the different feature code.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 06:20

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Hed posted:

Thanks for the reply SpacedOut.

I'm crossing my fingers that if I activate with my own equipment but an unlimited dataplan before 7/7 then I should be able to keep grandfathered data even after signing a 2-year agreement upon getting a subsidized device.

If you activate your own 4G equipment before the data plan changes it should work. There's a single feature added to phone plans to distinguish 3G devices from 4G devices which would trigger a plan change.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 06:24

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Scipiotik posted:

All this mystery around the Bionic is stupid and I hate it.

Motorola really hosed early adopters of the Xoom as well. I bought one for many reasons, but the number one reasons was for the LTE upgrade. Now there's talk about a Xoom 2. I played with the Galaxy Tab 10.1 today and couldn't help but feel bitterness towards Motorola.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 05:45

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

chocolateTHUNDER posted:

Im pretty sure I read in this thread that transferring the liability triggers the data plan to get knocked down to 2 gigs automatically.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2011 00:00

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Btw, I use Track and Protect for my Droid X. It requires a pin and has a "reward if found" message with instructions on how to return the phone to it's original owner. I believe it's free.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2011 05:39

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

DaNzA posted:

Can you get one of those $0.01 smartphone deals from amazon and use that to sign another 2 year contract with it?

Amazon profits from the contract, so no. Those smartphone deals are always with a new contract.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2011 06:20

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Ciabatta posted:

I got a Charge a month or two ago and it is fantastic so far. The screen is by far the best feature of it for me, so much so that I don't know if I can get another phone that doesn't have a SAMOLED. 4G is nice, but I'm on a 2gb plan and so use wifi most of the time. Battery was fine before rooting (something like 15-20 hours using primarily wifi, screen brightness low, light/moderate usage).

I rooted it and put Humble on and now battery life is pretty spectacular. I plugged it in this morning with 10% left after up time of ~38 hours, again with mostly wifi rather than mobile network. Rooting/Humble also made it quite a bit snappier (doubled my Quadrant score, for whatever that's worth).

The sole concern I have is that the SGSII or Bionic might beat the Charge in every category: lighter weight, screen as good or better, better battery, dual-core, etc. Still, compared to Droid X2 or Incredible 2, I would easily take the Charge again.

It's unlikely the Bionic will have a better screen. Samsung has routinely destroyed Motorola when it comes to screen quality.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2011 22:14

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Codiusprime posted:

This is so true, I shouldn't have really picked on Verizon. I've pretty much stopped asking sales reps anything when I go into an electronics store (rarely do anymore, hallo newegg).

It took me forever to convince my fiance that she didn't need a talk killer, the Verizon rep told us that our phones would run slow if we didn't have it and that it was the most important app for us to have and blah blah blah. Never again.

More recently, I went in to the Verizon store to see if I could get them to replace my Fiance's busted Droid X that she bought off of ebay. Not only did the manager, the manager, flat out tell us that neither Verizon or Motorola would honor any warranty and that she was screwed, but she made sure to tell us about the awesome buy one get one free deal they had going on for X2's. Aw, thanks

Edit: Clarification, the phone worked when she bought it. She dropped it in water and the sensor wasn't tripped so we were trying to see if we could pull a fast one. The manager told us that because it was bought on ebay there was nothing that either Verizon or Moto would/could do. Both were lies as Verizon replaced my used Fascinate and Motorola was going to replace her Droid X until they spotted water spots.

Actually, she wasn't lying. When you buy a phone from someone else, the warranty doesn't follow you. Sometimes, exceptions can be made but it's policy. The warranty follows the account number, so even IF you buy a phone from Verizon and decide to, for example, change the account over to your girlfriend's name, technically, you've lost your warranty. That's one of the key things reps include in their "Clear Customer Disclosure" when performing an assumption of liability. If you come to me and told me you bought a phone off ebay and want it replaced under warranty I would laugh at you.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2011 17:15

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

NewcastleBrown posted:

Thanks for the info. If you don't mind I'd like to ask some clarifying questions.

First, the corporate discount is through my brother's work, not mine, though my name is on the account as well. His corporate plan allows for a certain number of family members to be signed up for the deal as well. I think it is designed for getting phones for your kids or spouse, but the rep didn't seem to have a problem with me not actually living with him. Will I have issues at a Costco kiosk because I am not the primary account holder?

Second, I've been on this plan for 4 years, so other than the initial setup I've only renewed once two years ago. I'm a bit hazy on the details, but for some reason my memory was that anything done with corporate plans had to either be done through the Verizon website or over the phone with the rep for the corporate plan. Am I mistaken? I have a vague memory of being told by an employee at a Verizon store that they couldn't do much with corporate plans. Do you know anything about that? I (obviously) won't be getting the equipment discount on accessories as I would ordering online, but hey, free is better than 20% off!

Verizon doesn't care whether or not you live with the person who gets the discount. He can have up to 9 lines on his account(this isn't specific to any corporate discount, just Verizon in general. Wireless Advocates(Costco's cell phone kiosk) can see that you're an authorized user and will be able to upgrade you.

Currently, some corporate discounts are giving up to $50 off 4G handsets and you would have to go through Verizon directly to take advantage of that. You do not need to utilize the website or a specific rep to get this discount. Those business reps prefer you go through them for commission reasons, but it's not required.

It sounds to me like you're on a consumer plan with an employee-liable discount meaning it's under your brother's name and he's just receiving the discount extended to a corporation's employees. The discount off accessories is 25%.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2011 03:47

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Yoshifan823 posted:

Holy poo poo, there's gonna be a 4G network where I live! This is the most exciting news since ever, but I have a few questions.

My family right now has Satellite Internet, which is the worst possible way to get internet that isn't dial-up. Since Verizon announced that IC was getting 4G by the end of the year, I've been planning a switch from Satellite to 4G as my family's way of getting internet, and now, there's a date (Sept. 15). Is this a feasible thing? I know the $80/10GB plan is what we'd have to get, as we're a family of four, with two fairly heavy 'net users and me, who uses even more than that (though a lot of that is watching video and things like that). I know 10 Gigs isn't a lot (though there is that extra one for $10), so I'd have to cut the downloading out at home.

The other question is would there be a way to route the mobile hotspot through a router? We have an Apple Time Capsule that we use as both a backup and router, and it's really convenient to not have to switch networks to backup, could we get it so that we just have the internet going through the time capsule?

I remember back when we offered nothing but USB, PCMCIA and PC Express broadband cards I researched and found a few routers that would work with them. The problem with plugging in the USB stick into a router is that there's software that needs to be installed onto your PC/Laptop/Wtfever and I'm not sure how you would do that on the time capsule or whatever other device you find.

The mobile hotspot 4G devices only have a range of 30-33ft and I haven't found a way to boost that. It might be worth it for you to get 2 4G mobile hotspots.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2011 02:02

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

So I've got a bionic and I've got the extended life battery and the battery life still seems to suck balls. I DOA'd the old extended battery for this reason and it's still happening. I'm starting to think it's the phone. I've noticed that there's data constantly being transmitted. The UP/DOWN arrow's underneath the 4G symbol are always lit up. When I view what's eating up my battery, all I see is Cell phone Idle and Cell Standby which makes up about 85% of the battery power consumed. WTF?

I wanna see if anyone here has any suggestions before I hard reset.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2011 19:44

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

I figured it out as being the Groupon app.

loving REALLY? Groupon? I uninstalled it and haven't seen my phone stuck in a data connection since.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2011 22:01

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

My bionic was DOA.

Before getting it, I had a Droid X and used less than a gig every month easily. Since getting my bionic, my usage really hasn't changed. My phone would get super warm and die within 4-6 hours on the extended battery.

Once I got it swapped out, the battery life has been way better. I looked at my usage and it's at almost 5gb's of usage. I'm thinking my old phone was stuck in some sort of data connection which would explain why it would get warm and die within hours.

Just wanted to give a heads up for anyone who has a bionic.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2011 16:51

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

VoodooXT posted:

It was most likely the Social Location app. If you don't set it to auto end, it drains your battery like a hungry leech.

Every time I checked my task list nothing stood out to be an app that would devour the battery. I'll definitely keep an eye on that.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2011 03:29

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

maduin posted:

Yeah this; also, if you're on an unlimited plan they'll throttle you if you're among the top 95% of users or something like that.

Only on 3G. 4G Unlimited data users are not throttled. The cost to deliver 3G data is 10x more than the cost to deliver data through LTE.

edit: beaten.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2011 05:42

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

bull3964 posted:

Right now, at this very moment, it's probably the Bionic with an extended battery with 4G turned off.

This.

Even with 4G turned on, my bionic with the extended battery lasts about 16 hours with fairly heavy usage.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2011 18:05

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

For future reference, the easiest way to get a replacement phone without any hassle is to call tech support and simply tell them it's not turning on. You're going to want to call from a different phone and have the phone you're trying to replace turned off. As a corporate VZW employee, they still run us through the gamut of battery pull -> hard reset as a standard trouble shooting method and I got sick of it so I started to just fake it.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2011 00:28

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

They've really tightened up on moving upgrades up. Indirect stores in my area have the ability to do it one week early. The two things that managers absolutely can't make an exception on are iPhone and 4G early upgrades. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but somebody's going to get yelled at if it happens.

kstatix fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Nov 3, 2011

# ¿ Nov 3, 2011 05:42

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

The razr is drat sexy and I ordered one as my work phone. I have the bionic now and I've bought a poo poo ton of accessories to make me happy with the battery life. I carry the phone with an extended battery and an extra extended battery in my pocket, because one barely allows me to make it through a full day at work. It's pretty frustrating, but with that in mind, I don't see how I can put up with the battery life on the razr. I hate having to charge my phone while I'm at work and I'm not going to carry around an external loving battery pack.

Good thing I didn't have to buy it and if I hate it I can swap it out in 3 months. I'll report back with battery life experience when I get a chance to put the phone to real life use.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2011 16:28

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Ciabatta posted:

I would also like to know the answer to this, please! I'm looking at paying $650 for a Nexus and selling my current phone for $150-200. If I can get a $240 line over two years and upgrade soon for $199, that is almost certainly worth the hassle of explaining this scheme to my family!

Yes, it's doable. But it's just as easy to add a line and purchase the Nexus with the discount, then put the dumbphone on that line. No need to add a line before hand.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2011 04:37

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

kitten smoothie posted:

Don't I need to pay for data on that throwaway line for some period of time if I do an add-a-line and buy the Nexus at the same time?

It's just as easy for me to put the dumphone as a new line from home, and then go into a store and ask them to transfer the upgrade to sell me the phone, if I can get out of having to buy a data plan.

Nope.

Add a line and get the Nexus, once the Nexus is activated you can log into your MyVerizon account online. Switch the dumbphone onto the new line, activate the Nexus on yours. You may have to visit the store to get a new 4G sim card(it's free).

# ¿ Nov 27, 2011 20:40

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

C2C - 2.0 posted:

Does Verizon typically add a "placeholder" phone to any extra lines on your account that you didn't get a phone for?

I opened a new line a few months ago; I lost my DroidX and went in to buy a Bionic. They started it on a new line on my account, then switched it over to my current line. I kept the extra line since I'm probably getting my children a basic phone for Christmas. I recently went to Verizon's website to look at the choices when I noticed that my account shows an LG phone on that extra line (obviously no minutes/data used on it at this point).

Usually they'll put an ESN/MEID from a phone you had before. Otherwise, some reps will use a DUMMY esn which in most cases is prohibited(for the rep to use) but nothing the customer will ever need to be alarmed about.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2011 20:12

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

hotsauce posted:

So unlimited data will be $30/month? This seems too easy.

If I go Friday, get the GNEX as a new customer, sign up for 4 gigs for $30 (2gb doubled) plus the 450 voice and $30 tethering, can I then drop the tethering and keep ...well, unlimited?

Edit: as I read through the XDA thread (yeah, I know...teenage wasteland), it sounds like it's very hit or miss when you call Verizon and ask for the unlimited data hotspot feature.

Seems like a snowballs chance that it's even possible. I may try this on Friday and endure the 14 day trial to make it work but I'm not optimistic.

Wish me luck...

The unlimited hotspot feature only populates as an option if you are grandfathered into the unlimited data plan. If you aren't, it doesn't even show up as a compatible or even selectable feature.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2011 20:36

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Krittick posted:

Thank my mother for it.

It's weird, yeah. Sprint only needed a $100 deposit, and before that AT&T needed a $100 deposit too. $300 more seems excessive. I haven't tried in a couple of years though. Is there a way to check online?

A lot can change in a couple years. A $400 deposit doesn't always mean bad credit as I've seen people with that high of a deposit just because they had no credit history whatsoever. Unfortunately, there's simply no way around it. The good news is you will get it back with 3% interest, but almost nobody can stomach a $400 deposit if they have that kind of credit anyway. No offense, as I'm in the same situation you are. My credit's hosed and if I wasn't a verizon employee I would definitely be looking at a deposit and as a consumer I would definitely find another route.

edit: Also, if you checked recently and Verizon is asking for $400, you're likely to see the same requirement on ATT. There's an ATT kiosk right outside of my store and I've seen kids start with us and head to the kiosk and leave both places empty handed and whether or not it's true, Verizon apparently is the most lenient when it comes to credit scoring.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2011 02:40

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

DeceasedHorse posted:

Looked these up on Amazon as I'm in the market for a screen protector and they don't get the greatest reviews but on the other hand 399 is a lot more reasonable than the 20 dollar steinheil one I am also considering , especially as I always seem to mess up the application process and end up with tons of air bubbles.

The key to getting them on is thoroughly cleaning your screen and dusting it off with a compressed air can. Apply the protector immediately after removing it's backing as fast as you can line it up. If the protector has cutouts for things like the speaker, LED indicator, microphone, try to line it up with those because having the screen protector over something like the speaker will cause it to bubble in that spot and it's annoying as poo poo.

Use a credit card to push out the air bubbles. The ones you can't push out indicate you have some kind of debris in that spot. I use scotch tape to carefully lift the screen protector to remove whatever the gently caress is stuck underneath and push the bubbles out with my credit card again.

I've got it down to a loving science. I've also done over a thousand or two of them.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2011 02:48

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

duffmensch posted:

Just wanted to add that if you are having problems with dust specs and/or hair, I have had luck with applying the screen protector in a very humid environment (like the bathroom with the shower turned on full hot water for a few minutes).

This seems like a bit too much work for a screen protector :colbert:

# ¿ Dec 24, 2011 16:56

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Thanks for assuming that I didn't read the entire article. I am aware that autopay (which I don't like to use because I've been burned too many times and I like to control when I pay my bills) and ACH (which I guess I will begrudgingly use) are exempt but that still doesn't stop it from being nickel and diming bullshit. I feel that same way about my electric company charging a fee to use a debit card (I pay with a check - loved your condescending attitude by the way) and my old bank charging ATM fees (switched to a bank that refunds fees each month). There is no reason to charge a fee for this other than greed.

Most if not all companies get charged or have overhead fee's for taking credit card payments. If you have a method of paying your bill that doesn't cost the company or the consumer any more money, why the gently caress wouldn't the company try to promote utilization of that bill payment method? Sure, it's another way for the company to make money, but money is what motivates people and the company's just trying to motivate you to use a payment method that doesn't cost them.

Yeah, I work for verizon, but I'm constantly pissing in the kool-aid. As others have stated above, these fee's aren't anything new. Just new to Verizon Wireless.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2011 04:34

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Mark Larson posted:

How does Verizon's corporate discount verification process work exactly? The rep I talked to said that Verizon actually contacts the company I claim to work for, and that's why the discount takes a while to show up on my bill. This is different from and in addition to me showing them my corporate ID??

Is this all true? I'm a contractor in some huge corporation and will be very sad if the verification process somehow fails out because they asked the wrong person. FWIW, myVerizon shows me the discount online but my first bill didn't.

The company doesn't actually get contacted.

The ONLY two acceptable forms of ID for adding a corporate discount are a photo ID badge with your first and last name and the name of the company OR a paycheck stub dated within the last 60 days.

We take a snapshot of the information to add the discount to your account and it'll show up immediately on our end or on MyVerizon. However, the discount does not kick in until the employer information has been audited by one of our departments. Any proof of employment presented that doesn't include the information I stated above gets the discount removed.

As long as you pass the audit, the discount kicks in.

You can also add your discount via email by going to verizonwireless.com/getdiscount -- via this method, you register and receive a validation email in your work email inbox. Click the link in your work email inbox and follow the steps to complete the process. This method is typically easier and though I'm not 100% sure, I'm assuming the auditing process is automated as it doesn't actually require a human to verify any of the information.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2011 19:20

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

tofes posted:

The Rezound has a nice screen, a loud speaker, and a good camera. The downside is it's kind of thick and you have to put up with Sense

Yeah, and like every other HTC phone, the battery is worse in comparison to other high end phones.

The longer I've worked for Verizon the more and more I see how lovely HTC phones are. I see the Incredible 10+ times a day with memory issues and other problems. It used to be the Eris. Now that we're approaching 1 year since the Thunderbolt came out, I'm seeing that as the next plague.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2012 22:48

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

highme posted:

Anybody in Portland, OR having data connectivity issues? I've been without any data on my GNex since last evening.

Mine's working fine.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2012 21:06

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Ernie Luckman posted:

Anyone know how the hell i can reset my billing account password without dealing with phone maze sitting on hold hell? Just got my Maxx in the mail and can't activate it because i don't know this password.

I dialed *611, followed the prompts, and it just told me that i can set the password by logging in to my verizon. When i log in to my verizon, i need the current password to change it. This doesn't help me any...

Any hints?

Billing account password =/= online account password.

Billing account password is a verbal password you get asked when you call into 611/customer service, it can be no longer than 5 characters long.

Online account password is minimum of 8 characters and must contain atleast 1 number. Reset your online account password, then go in and change your billing account password.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2012 20:37

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

What's everyone using to backup/restore?

I went from Droid X -> Bionic and just manually downloaded all my apps again, and setup my bookmarks manually. That's kind of a loving pain and now that I'm switching to a Razr Maxx, I want to make it easier.

Any suggestions?

# ¿ Jan 30, 2012 18:05

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Codiusprime posted:

Everything should download automatically when you enter your Google info. I find it's very hit or miss though.

Yeah, very hit or miss. I thought this would take place when I switched to my Bionic but was mildly disappointed when nothing happened.

I'll try MyBackupPro. I don't ever root my phone because I have to demo it on a daily basis.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2012 18:22

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Mighty Horse posted:

It's supposedly dependent on the app itself.

ICS fixes this, but that wont help you..

I thought this would be the case, but NOTHING transferred. Not a single app.

I was heavily debating between the razr maxx and the galaxy nexus, but for some reason I'm one of the few people who like Blur :colbert:

# ¿ Jan 30, 2012 20:16

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Redjakk posted:

My wife just bought a barely-used white iPhone 4 off eBay this week. She tried activating it but they said that the previous owner hadn't taken it off his account yet. She sent him an email but hadn't got a response in two days.

Is there anything she can do so Verizon can acknowledge her as the new phone's owner without having to contact the previous owner or is this a caveat emptor situation?

This just means he needs to do an ESN change to an older phone or a dummy esn(which verizon provides) in order for you to activate it. You should be fine assuming he's willing to cooperate. He should anyway, because otherwise he's paying for an extra $30 in data for a phone he doesn't own.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2012 06:37

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 08:02

kstatix: Mar 20, 2006

Cynode posted:

Few questions on this:

1. any idea how long the sale is on for? I have 2 lines upgrading in a few weeks (march 1, march 14).
2. My wife used another lines upgrade this past spring for an LG android phone, can she use another upgrade to get in on this without paying for the phone she just got?
3. can you mix and match? she wants a purple razr and I want a razr maxx.

1: Not sure, don't think an end-date has been published.

2: Yes.

3: Should be able to. I'll double check when I get to work tomorrow. Obviously if it worked this way the maxx is the one you'd pay for.

Btw I went 2.5 days on battery with my maxx. Really happy with my purchase.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2012 07:05

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