Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Shadow Hog posted:

Planisphere 2, I suppose? Certainly not for stability, though. Having a to-scale representation of New York City in a single map doesn't exactly lend itself to good framerates.

lmao of course there is a switch to blow up a tower of the world trade center

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 23:22

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 08:05

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Yodzilla posted:

Do we know if id Tech 6 is going to be using megatextures?

That's one thing I would not mind dying an ignominious death. I was mildly interested in the new Wolfenstein but I'll be hosed if I'm downloading 50GB for a dumb game.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 22:04

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

This is the real problem with it, sure the entire world can have no repeating textures but how important is that really? Is it really worth having, like, an order of magnitude more art data in the final version so that every metal hallway can have slightly different wear markings?

I used to know a Doom mapper who was experimenting with making a map with a ton of custom textures so that nothing would ever repeat. IIRC he abandoned it because it was incredibly tedious and time consuming to make, would have had a relatively huge filesize for a simple Doom map, and didn't really make that big of a difference.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 02:05

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Zaphod42 posted:

After all the work put into making GTA4's New York, it'd be cool if another game could take that and build upon it, rather than having to start from scratch and reinvent the wheel.

Rockstar already did this, it was called Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City :smug:

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 18:22

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Zaphod42 posted:

That's in QUAKE?

one big reason those look nicer is because the algorithms used to generate the lightmaps are much more advanced than the ones Quake used, which didn't even have any radiosity calculations IIRC.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 23:23

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Yeah Kingpin made the mistake of using an engine with vertex animation and not skeletal animation. Since you can blow the limbs off characters, the game had to store a bunch of alternate models in memory all the time, and since the minimum RAM requirement was probably 64 MB or something silly like that, they had to compress all the animations to poo poo. That's literally what the weird jello lerping is -- lossy compression.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 20:13

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Quake Live was always basically Quake 3 in a browser right? So now it's... weird babby Quake 3 in a browser?

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 22:54

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I'm not terribly surprised really.

If you want to play around with amateur game development, is there anything else even remotely like Doom? There's a ton of content, tools, tutorials, active forums, engines with powerful scripting, and making new levels and graphics are a piece of cake.

I've thought for years that any developer in preproduction for a shooter-type game could do a lot worse than to make a crude prototype in ZDoom.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 02:47

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I barely even think about Doom 2 as a standalone game, it's more like a... platform.

Like "here's a bunch of dumb levels you can play if you want, but you really should go on ~~a BBS~~ the internet and download stuff / make your own"

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 23:37

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I've been messing with a Doom source port trying to figure out how to add motion blur and jesus this is some loving spaghetti code

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9G6GcvieOQ

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 06:56

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I quickly just made Lost Souls spawn Lost Souls when they die, here's a trip report just before GZDoom totally froze

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 20:07

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDd30z8taR8

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 20:40

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

built demos are weird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1eWKNhHXNc

# ¿ Aug 20, 2014 17:44

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I've been on this Doom demo recording poo poo the last few days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNx5ERixrYc

# ¿ Aug 20, 2014 22:26

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Yodzilla posted:

I don't get anything about this. Why.

Doom (and thus Doom demos) runs at 35hz for all its game logic and rendering code. When you upload a 35 fps video to YouTube, it gets converted to 30fps automatically, presumably by dropping every 7th frame, although I don't really know exactly how their encoders are set up or anything. That means every fifth of a second in a YouTube version of a Doom demo, there's a tiny jump forward. This is pretty imperceptible but I was curious how it would look if I compared it to a video truly recorded at 30fps and if it looked any better or smoother.

When I watch it focusing on the normal method and then on my own method, I feel like I can tell a slight difference, but it might be wishful thinking.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 02:10

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Zaphod42 posted:

I wish I could play the whole game on "difference" mode

Doom Rave

untz untz untz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_jDRXLzWDM

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 21:35

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

mod sassinator posted:

Are there any nice Doom and Quake server tools? I'd love to have something that can connect to the server (or be a part of the server) and get info on who's playing, what their kills/deaths/etc. are, and use that to display a dashboard on a monitor. Anything like that exist?

Probably? http://doomutils.ucoz.com/

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 22:56

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Here's a weird mystery.

Here's the Lost Soul as it appeared in Doom v1.0:

Here's the Lost Soul as it appeared in Doom v1.666 / Doom 2 v1.666 / all subsequent PC Doom 1/2 versions:

In case it's not obvious, here they are side by side:

So the Lost Soul sprite was changed slightly, to give it more of a, uh, unibrow ridge, smaller nose hole, and more movement / lighting variation.

OK, now here's Playstation Doom, released in fall 1995, which included Doom 2 maps and monsters:

And here's SNES Doom, also released in fall 1995, which was only a port of Doom 1:

So how did the SNES Doom 1 port get the newer Doom 2 version of the Lost Soul, and the Playstation Doom 2 port get the older Doom 1 version of the Lost Soul?? :wtf:

Linguica fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Aug 26, 2014

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 08:46

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Mak0rz posted:

I'm not asking if it had more maps. I'm asking if it had new maps. Info I find online seems to indicate that it doesn't, but I'm almost positive I remember there was a secret map in Episode 3 that was a mirrored Slough of Despair in an issue of Nintendo Power.

don't think so: http://classicdoom.com/doomcomp.htm#08

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 18:48

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0cbzYnb2oY

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 05:26

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

SwissCM posted:

Okay now make it so every single sound is pitch shifted.

uh every sound IS pitch shifted?

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 06:16

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8mmoKWJNE

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 06:14

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

Refueling Base with that fix

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 07:37

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

mod sassinator posted:

Haha that's great. I bet they never turned it on because it just computes distance as the crow flys instead of only following open areas that sound can travel through.

Nope, it computes distance exactly the way you would expect it to, from one sector to the next.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 07:49

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

mod sassinator posted:

Ah wow, from the video it just looks like some kind of exponential distance from the player. That's cool it actually runs through all the sectors.

I actually spent some time tonight trying to figure out the function. The sound propagation code starts in the sector you're in, then iterates through each linedef bordering that sector, determines if there's a sector on the other side of that linedef, and recursively calls the same function on that next sector etc etc, only stopping at closed doors and (after 2 sets of) sound-blocking lines.

So in my hacked code, so long as there's at least one monster after each sound-blocking line and before the next, the alerting noise will keep propagating forever.

It's kind of neat to play Doom that way since you get surprised by a lot of already-active monsters, and it's somewhat more "realistic" that monsters go on alert when they hear other monsters go on alert, but I can see why they disabled it.

Linguica fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Aug 30, 2014

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 07:58

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I spent a good portion of my Sunday proving that there's a bug in Doom 2 that can result in it taking literally 11.67 years for a Map30 spawn cube to spawn a monster

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 01:29

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 07:09

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

The original Doom renderer is really not meant for high resolutions

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 06:49

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Mak0rz posted:

Wait. What's happening here?

Doom source ports like PrBoom that slavishly follow the original renderer have an issue that makes lines that almost intersect the player's position act crazier and crazier at higher resolutions, because the Doom engine uses integer math instead of floating point math and it starts to break down at higher resolutions because the numbers get too big.

e: and it just gets worse and worse and worse

Linguica fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Sep 6, 2014

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 07:38

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Cat Mattress posted:

Short and sweet is that a line is drawn between two vertices, but if one of these vertices is behind the player, Doom has no idea where it is exactly

That's actually not what is happening. Without getting too much into it (lol), Doom doesn't have anything resembling a near clipping plane and will happily attempt to draw a wall infinitesimally close to the point singularity that is the camera. Doom always draws lines according to screen space, and when you're standing on top of a line, that basically means the engine is trying to draw the super janky line:

�

^��^
|��|
|��start drawing here
all the way to here

It might be better if you imagine that line as having a middle texture like a grate or whatever, and that the engine is trying to draw the texture all the way across most of the player's screen. You can imagine that as you get towards the left edge of the screen, the scale of the line is OBSCENELY BIG, because it is like three nano-angstroms away from the player viewpoint. And the Doom engine uses normal integers that can't get nearly big enough, so it hits the scaling cap on the left side. And since the engine just interpolates the scale between the left edge and the right edge of the line when drawing it, that makes the line appear to be more sloped than it really is.

Here's a quick illustration:

And since PrBoom (inexplicably) calculates the scaling factor with the screen resolution as a component, that means that the higher the resolution, the higher all the numbers are, and the more quickly and severely you hit the integer cap.

Linguica fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 6, 2014

# ¿ Sep 6, 2014 19:03

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I'm finally playing BTSX1, and one minor thing I noticed that really screams polish is that they took the time to hide all unnecessary lines on the automap, so it looks much cleaner and easier to understand.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2014 20:47

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Are there any wads aside from Hellbound that follow the same "Hell on Earth" scenario as Doom II?

Whispers of Satan maybe? http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/wos.zip

e: or Unholy Realms http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?file=levels/doom2/megawads/ur.zip

Linguica fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Sep 11, 2014

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 04:18

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Jblade posted:

I remember hearing about one of those big events the publisher GOD did where Levelord was manning the barbeque and serving up burgers. What I wouldn't give to go back in time to that place.

I remember going to E3 2000 when Gathering of Developers had their big "Promised Lot" thing across the street from the convention center with BBQ and pole dancers and whatever. I didn't really realize how ridiculous it all was at the time.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 19:58

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Possibly? I had the "good fortune" to go to E3 in the early 2000s which was the high point in over the top booths and PR stunts and wanton misogyny.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 20:16

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Yeah I recently started playing WADs on HMP as default and it's a lot less exasperating.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2014 03:29

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I liked Smooth Doom when it was just trying to make the vanilla animations less herky jerky but all the new stuff is just tacky and weird to me.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2014 20:18

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

The Kins posted:

There was a French version of Doom 2! Which is unexpected.

It's not that strange, considering it's the only foreign language included in the source code release

quote:

APRES AVOIR VAINCU LES GROS MECHANTS
ET NETTOYE LA BASE LUNAIRE, VOUS AVEZ
GAGNE, NON? PAS VRAI? OU EST DONC VOTRE
RECOMPENSE ET VOTRE BILLET DE
RETOUR? QU'EST-QUE CA VEUT DIRE? CE
N'EST PAS LA FIN ESPEREE!

CA SENT LA VIANDE PUTREFIEE, MAIS
ON DIRAIT LA BASE DEIMOS. VOUS ETES
APPAREMMENT BLOQUE AUX PORTES DE L'ENFER.
LA SEULE ISSUE EST DE L'AUTRE COTE.

POUR VIVRE LA SUITE DE DOOM, JOUEZ
A 'AUX PORTES DE L'ENFER' ET A
L'EPISODE SUIVANT, 'L'ENFER'!

# ¿ Sep 22, 2014 03:52

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Woolie Wool posted:

The LG didn't need replacing. Why nerf a weapon to death just to replace it with a weapon that does the same thing, but more boring?

Because there are people being paid to maintain Quake Live and they feel the need to justify their existence.

Segmentation Fault posted:

Indeed all in-game advertising is gone, even the billboards, which is something I kind of miss honestly. If the game is meant to be about spectator bloodsport, it would make sense to have advertisements and sponsors on the walls and such. Even some fictional ads or ads for Bethesda games like Wolf: TNO or The Evil Within would be neat.

Haha really? "You know what this game needs? More advertising."

# ¿ Sep 22, 2014 16:30