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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:To be honest, we haven't seen her kill Stannis. I can imagine that she chooses not to kill him and that he ends up being rehabilitated or redeemed in some way. I mean, it makes sense that she kills him and I won't be surprised if she does but that end result was not shown. The HBO site says Stannis is dead and I believe it because D&D don't like him enough to keep him around. Even though a redemption arc for him would be super interesting
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Jun 16, 2015 01:52
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Dorne was so loving awful in retrospect, even worse than when we were still waiting for them to magically make it relevant (like "fire and blood" kind of did). So the whole thing was about Jaime wanting to be a dad? Dorne was pretty lovely in the books too, but it's especially lovely and pointless in the show.
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Jun 16, 2015 01:57
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TequilaJesus posted:So who else felt Stannis's end was underwhelming? Not that he needed to win, but something more...? Stannis's entire story has being underwhelming since end of season 2
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Jun 16, 2015 08:18
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AtAt-de-fay posted:You can't polish a turd, but HBO should've at least made the effort. I think they did try by putting Jaime in there because nobody gives a poo poo about arianne or the loving sand snakes in the books either. It's just that they hosed up and now instead of adding to the Dornish story arc they just took away from Jaime's story arc.
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Jun 16, 2015 08:19
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Iron Lung posted:Dude. D&D needs to hire some of the Silicon Valley writers because holy poo poo can they write suspense and really deliver a payoff. The problem is that D&D gets caught between their own medicore writing ability and the demands of following GRRM's megaunfimable book 4-5 which grrm wanted to be 2-3 seasons. Put some better writers might save the embarrassment of Dorne but I think book readers are still gonna bitch.
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Jun 16, 2015 08:21
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bobkatt013 posted:How could you forget the shame lady? The shame lady was probably the best new character of the season, I mean that unironically Some lady who literally say nothing but "shame" and "confess" for the whole season was still better than everybody else they introduced.
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Jun 16, 2015 08:23
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yronic heroism posted:So what are the credible theories about a non-obvious person ending up on the Iron Throne? Arianne after Dany shatters the glass ceiling and dies? Sweetrobin as a puppet of Sansa? (Actually house arryn might have some distant targ blood?) Gendry obvsly But no, not gonna happen the show didn't spend enough screentime with him to make it possible
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Jun 17, 2015 03:25
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Ague Proof posted:I think the Iron Throne will be destroyed at some point. And the Wall has to come down. I think it's because he wrote himself into a corner one too many times and created so many sprawling plots/subplots (which most people don't give a poo poo about) even he can't finish them all.
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Jun 17, 2015 03:55
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Blind Sally posted:I'm betting Stannis is still alive. After he said the whole "go on, do yer duty" line, I bet Brienne just swung her sword at the tree in anger because he reminded her of the oath she made Catelyn Stark and her whole conversation with Jaime and the whole Oathbringer thing, blah, blah, blah. She's gonna take Stannis captive and use him to get herself into Winterfell to try and rescue Sansa. The joke is that Theon and Sansa are already gone so Brienne gets to "team up" with Roose and Ramsey to find them. Stannis is dead according to both D&D and Davos's actor: http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-on-saying-goodbye-to-his-co-star_article_108851 http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-cliffhangers
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Jun 17, 2015 04:17
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Blind Sally posted:i mean, yeah, that's probably all true, so i'm not going to be terribly surprised whatever the outcome is, but Kit Harrington's been going around claiming "no, I swear, my character is really dead" and I'm not convinced. Jon Snow is really dead though, it's just that he's gonna get resurrected by Melisandre, hopefully davos shanks her afterwards
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Jun 17, 2015 07:01
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centaurtainment posted:Also, cuz I haven't seen it in this thread yet, my favorite picture of GRRM: Man grrm is all like finally my nerd hobbies gets me laid
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Jun 18, 2015 05:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lmfao if this true. According to leaks from the HoTD premier they lay out that the reason why the Targaryen’s conquered Westeros was that they knew about the White Walkers and needed to make sure there was a strong united kingdom to fight them. Which is f true is one of the most overplayed tropes in all of fantasy/sci-if and only makes the ending of GoT dumber. I read the ASOIAF pseudo history books (World of ice and fire) and this was never mentioned so it's prob something the showrunners made up hopefully Kylaer posted:And here I, who hasn't read the GRRM Extended Universe nonsense, figured that the Targaryens conquered Westeros because, well, they had dragons and Westeros didn't. Which works so much better than it being a secret generations-long undercover plot. The extended universe basically says exactly that the Targaryens conquered Westeros because they could Bloodraven was one of the worst things grrm introduced because the series was at its best when it was about "what if actual historical medieval European nobles was living in a low-fantasy universe". And it was fun watching fantasy-Edward IV or fantasy-Margaret of Anjou bumbling and suffer realistic consequences. OTOH "This one magic creature who prophesized all of this 1000 years ago is pulling all the strings" 
Typo fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 14:41
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The way early books handled prophecies was always the best it was always unclear whether prophecies were real actual magical things, self-fulfilling Macbeth type prediction, or just poo poo someone completely made up to gain favor with <noble X> the later books lean way too heavily into them being real actual magical things and it makes them less interesting
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Aug 11, 2022 15:19
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Arc Hammer posted:That just makes the TV show using the Night King as the Droid Control Ship linchpin even dumber. The night's king, in the sense this one person who is the leader of all zombies or whatever, prob don't even exist in the books lol The night's king in the books was just this night's watch commander from like 1000 years ago who defected to the white walkers there's no reference to him currently leading the white walkers or whatever I'm like 99% sure D&D decided they need "major main villain leader" and saw the name "night's king" and decide "yep that's our guy"
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Aug 11, 2022 15:35
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the ice zombies were always best when you don't show them too much and they are just a mysterious force hanging on the outskirts that you know is coming. Actually having characters interacting with said ice zombies is not interesting. the more they get shown the more  they get, they are supposed to be a metaphor for nature disasters like climate change or the plague (the entirety Jon's arc for 4 books was dealing with fantasy-climate refugees). We've already had a zillion movies/shows about zombie fighting idgaf if Jon kills a zillion zombies or whatever.I guess the theory that Euron will bring down the wall and allow them through to conquer Westeros make sense, historically political elites tended to take advantage of their neighbors weakened by nature disasters rather than cooperate with them
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Aug 11, 2022 15:53
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Kuiperdolin posted:Come to think of it, we never see ir hear of Essos again after that episode, right? Would be funny if the invasion succeeded there because some rear end in a top hat burnt everything and then sailed away with all the troops available. Essos is basically continental Eurasia to Westeros's England and have way more troops than whatever Dany sailed away wtih
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Aug 11, 2022 16:53
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pidan posted:
as in it will never be revealed/confirmed whether he's real or a fake, just different characters arguing and fighting over it quote:As the books went on you'd have to eventually take a stand on the nature of prophecy The obvious parallel to this in asoiaf are Cersei and Magy the Frog's prophecy. Which is probably why the Cersei chapters in AFFC are very fun reads. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 18:02
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or just leave prophecies ambigious enough that their fullfillment is up to intrepretation kinda like how irl "prophecies" work quote:GRRM could've had some prophecies be true and some be false. Hell, even a "real" magical prophet could get some things wrong, depending on the mechanism of how they receive visions or whatever. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 18:33
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Whizzing Wizard posted:I assume this is an attempt to get people excited about the Targaryen show he is apparently involved in. It's his attempt at convincing people the bad seasons weren't his fault and if only he, the genius writer had been on board the show would have been great. The first 3 books handled "magical bloodlines" pretty well. In that the magic didn't matter that much They mostly just mattered in establishing legitimacy for a noble house to their underlings, same as how "divine right" works irl. Even Dany's dragons were mostly just toys she showed off as symbols of the Targaryen dynasty.
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Aug 12, 2022 16:45
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Let’s not rewrite history like HBO and GRRM and most GoT fans. Just take a look at the IMDB individual episode review scores if you need a reminder. While there were some, including myself, who recognized that the show was seriously foundering in Season 5 followed by a Season 6 that proved that the plot was complete lost the vast majority of people were in love with the series going into Season 8. The watch parties were still huge, the ratings were skyrocketing, the hype was everywhere. It wasn’t until the absolute slap in the face of The Long Night episode where the cold dose of reality that the show sucked finally hit not just annoying nerds like us. S5-7 were basically lovely with a few good moments here and there (Hold the door being prob the best) S8 is when they couldn't even do that anymore The feeling I got was that by S8 D&D were just tired of the whole thing and already made their money, so they were just putting minimal effort at creating a conclusion by that point cuz they just want to get it over with E: I watched some scenes from earlier season on YT, man I miss when the show was just straight up re-enacting book scenes lol Typo fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 02:49
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man, the "you win or you die" scene where it's just 2 characters talking to each other is better than all those $$$ millions worth of CGI in the later seasons put together https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucB4UrhI-3w
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Aug 14, 2022 17:01
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nine-gear crow posted:David Benioff (and Dan Weiss, for that matter), is one of those few people towards whom I don't wish anything ill, but I also actively don't wish anything good for either. I wish he has a thoroughly neutral, utterly mediocre rest of his life. tbf to D&D they did a pretty good job at adapting Book 1-3, which were -not- easily adaptable material either, parts of it that they created themselves (like the Arya/Tywin scenes) were -better- than what was in the books (Arya/Roose bolton) apparantly multiple production companies/people approached GRRM about filming the series before but they wanted to just focus on 1 part of it, i.e they wanted the whole thing to be about Jon Snow. It's easy to see why because trying to make a TV/movie adapation of 3-4 branching plotlines each of which is pretty convoluted on its own isn't easy. GRRM basically said "unless" you follow all the plotlines I don't want you doing it, D&D were the first people who were willing to do what GRRM wanted. Typo fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 17:07
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chaosapiant posted:I agree with whoever said the Arya and Tywin scenes were good, because they really were. no the books instead of Bronn it was ser Ilyn Payne, the Dornish storyline played out completely differently and Jaime never goes to Dorne the whole reason why Jaime kept payne around was so he had someone to train with who was mute and illiterate so he couldn't go around telling everyone that Jaime can't fight anymore substituting in Bronn made no sense
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Aug 15, 2022 01:55
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Also everyone in the books are much younger there's this one scene in the books where Caitlyn was with an army marching to war and she notes how everyone around her were just kids, i.e maybe 15-16. In the books Robb became king at 15. The closest comparison I can think of is Edward IV of England but even he was 18 when he claimed the throne. From a pseudo-historical perspective the Targaryen period of Westeros history was suprisingly stable and calm. There were maybe 3-4 big civil wars in the span of ~300 years of Targaryen rule and you had 2-3 rounds of civil wars in the -15- years or so since Aerys died. Hence why you had so many kids fighting. IIRC even in actual historical midieval wars the average age of knights etc wasn't as young as 15-16. Typo fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 02:02
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DaysBefore posted:Always seemed insane that Roose never had any suspicions. Like sure everyone thinks Arya is locked up but a Northern girl with a noble accent and gray eyes? You'd think he'd ask at least one question I don't think Roose ever realized Arya was a northern girl, he just thought she was some riverlander
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Aug 15, 2022 02:03
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DaysBefore posted:Even then it's a little off. As early as the first stage of the Hundred Years War (1330ish) English longbowmen were semi-professional soldiers working on contract for the earls I believe. It only got more and more formal as you get to the Wars of the Roses that inspired Ice and Fire. calling up every farmer/barrel maker or whatever and throwing them into battles was always dumb af if you think about it the avg adult peasants were not good at fighting but did provide a source of income for the nobility whose land they farmed, the income they generate could then be used to train/equip professional/semi-professional soldiers who were actually effective. If you threw your peasants into wars they were just all gonna get killed and then you would have no income to hire real soldiers. That's why in actual history it was basically never done. Typo fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 06:41
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Kylaer posted:GRRM isn't a historian of any sort and knows as much about how actual medieval societies worked as he does about how tall 700 feet is. He's read pretty extensively on the Hundreds year war and the Albegensian crusades as background reading for the series so I think he -has- to have read the basic stuff about how medieval armies were recruited at some point I think yeah, he's just taking artistic license and playing into popular tropes because well, they are popular
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Aug 15, 2022 06:44
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Like I know that certain civilizations here in our real world did produce massive armies at times but didn't the Roman empire at its peak only have something like 200,000 soldiers? In the books you have noble houses capable of fielding armies of tens of thousands in a single battle. the army sizes in asoiaf might actually be smaller than expected for a late medieval society for a continent the size of westeros England by the War of the Roses for example was fielding massive armies, at battle of Towten the Lancaster/Yorkist factions combined to field armies combined numbering ~50k men for a single battle. So each faction's army was on par with what the Starks/Tullies/Lannisters fielded in the books, which were around ~20k each. Granted England had being in a state of near total war for decades up to that point in fighting Hundreds Year war so the troops numbers were astonishingly high (it's estimated 1-2% of ENTIRE population of England fought at that single battle) In the books someone estimated that Westeros isn't the size of England it's more like the size of South America, and we know the southern half of the kingdom are densely populated. So the total population controlled by some of the individual houses is probably way higher than the 2~2.5 million people England had in the 1450s. So you might expect their armies to be correspondingly higher. Typo fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 15:11
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Elias_Maluco posted:I did liked Bronn sparring with Jaime. Of course the Dorne trip was awful, but before that it was kinda good The best thing about Ser Ilyn in the books was when Jaime was just rambling bullshit at him at one point and Ser Ilyn just gave him a look that said "you are loving dumbass" and Jaime just went "you talk too much"
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Aug 15, 2022 15:25
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battle of the bastards was a pretty key moment in D&D trying to Marvelize the series big spectacles, not character development and drama became what drives the show in its later seasons, the success of BoB in impressing the audience of later seasons was key in convincing them it could work S8 was just the logical conclusion of that, lots of special effects, barely any dialogue between characters Typo fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 16:05
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which is why I think D&D just got lazy and wanted to just get it over with S5-S7 showed that most fans of the show just wanted spectacle, S8 was when the writing got -so- bad even normies started to notice, and even then people didn't really uniformly turn against the show until literally the last 15 minutes of the show If D&D just put like a few extra weeks to write a script S8 prob would have just being some 10/10 best show ever according to normies. Make Dany kill the night's king by drecarysing him with Dragon flame. Just throw out the GRRM ending with Bran being king and just make Jon+Dany live happily ever after or some poo poo like that. They have like 10 targ babies and Dany is the greatest queen ever. Just fulfill every fantasy cliché THE END. it's not like the avg show watcher gaf about core themes of ASOIAF being bad things happening to throne-seekers or the difficulties of governing the realm as a medieval monarch by the later seasons anyway. They just wanted YAS SLAYA QUEEN and "bad man dies on screen". Typo fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 18:05
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Pennsylvanian posted:
hahahahahahahahha I forgot about that
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Aug 15, 2022 18:12
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I was thinking about what time period westero's frozen medieval society is obvsly the baseline is mid 15th century England, but in terms of the central government you have a cabinet (small council) with wide spread powers to implement sweeping policies across the realm (i.e tariffs at ports) and those didn't come into existence until...maybe the 1600s? So they are actually ahead in that respect But in terms of technology they are behind, the obvs missing technology are gunpowder weapons but other glaring missing items are things like mechanical clocks. By the late 1200s clocks were installed in very prominent churches as a way to tell when to start praying, and it's completely missing in asoiaf. Which implies they are pretty behind in terms of engineering.
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Aug 15, 2022 18:38
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DaysBefore posted:To defend the rape author (*tugs at collar*), it seems obvious to me that the Lannister campaign is based directly on the English chevauchees of the Hundred Years War, where knights and longbowmen rode around France doing medieval 'Come and See' poo poo for decades. Exaggerated I guess but, honestly, not too much yeah that's was just normal medieval warfare most medieval warfare was not pitched battles involved thousands of men on each side, it was more more like you had a pitched battle once n a long while then years and years of small skirmishes before and afterwards where both sides would go to the other side's land and steal poo poo/kill their peasants
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Aug 15, 2022 20:58
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you basically have like 5 years with no winter than a winter of like 1-2 years it's kinda like extended seasons and more unpredictable not sure how storing perishable foods or whatever works with that
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Aug 17, 2022 17:20
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Review embargo has dropped for HoTD and the consensus is “it’s ok...but not special.” So fans across the internet are moving the goal posts at a truly frantic pace to argue that having a mid 60s metacritic rating is actually better than it being higher because if it was higher that just means it’s dumber to appeal to a wider audience outside us, the fans, who can appreciate the artistic depths.
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Aug 19, 2022 16:12
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I was watching some GRRM interviews and he said "maybe Aegon did foresee what was coming and wanted to unify the 7 kingdoms in preparation for it"
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Aug 22, 2022 14:32
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let's just ignore this retcon it's dumb af it's better when Aegon was the answer to "what if William the conqueror had dragons" and the answer was "they would have the same motivation as the historical William but only now he can beat bigger armies since he has dragons" it's like if you think about it obvsly it dragons existed the nobility would use them to carve out their own kingdoms. Fire and Blood actually did a pretty good job in drawing out how -governing- a meidival kingdom would be like if you had dragons. Sure you can burn down armies in the field against you but how do you deal with guerrilla bands who just refuse to fight in the open field against you but keep murdering your governors and ambush your soldiers? How do you deal with the church excommunicating the king? What about succession crisis within the dragon-riding nobility? What about if some town refuses to pay their taxes because their charter from 100 years ago kind of sort of grants them immunity from said taxation. You can't possibly burn them all down. Eventually you are going to have to come to the sort of uneasy comprimise between the crown and other elements of feudal society that historical monarchs came to. "Well actually PROPHECY" is :facepalm: Typo fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 18:34
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The first eps is 9.1 on IMDB atm But since the critics had the first 6 eps for all we know it rly falls apart lol
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Aug 22, 2022 18:45
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:As an aside and on some dumb Targ writing things, I was talking about this the other day with a friend and like, I feel like the Blackfyre Rebellion is kind of comically understated? Like what i mean is that if Aegon IV legitimizes all his bastards, the ensuing succession crisis when he died should have been far worse than the First Blackfyre Rebellion. Like it should have been a clusterfuck of open war or mass assassinations to make the Dance seem small scale. Succession crisis tend to be the most destructive when you have major power basis within the country backing multiple claiments During the DoD the 7 kingdoms were split, the Starks/Arryns/Tullies etc all supported Rhaenyra while the Lannisters/Baratheons and Hightowers supported Aegon. The balance of power between the two factions were pretty even and the participation of the great houses meant a lot of military power got sucked into the fighting. During the Blackfyre rebellion none of the major houses backed Daemon. His base of support seemed to be some medium-sized houses in the riverlands and the great houses stayed loyal. That's prob why it was a lot less descructive and easier to defeat.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:14
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