ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

MikeJF posted:

Is there anything in the books to disprove my dumb-rear end personal theory that if you kept going south it'd just keep getting hotter and the south pole is the land of fire and the north pole is the land of ice and the seasons are caused by the two waxing and waning against each other in eternal battle?

Yes, I think. The books mention several times there was this kind of magical empire, which hosed things up. Everything ended in cataclysmic disaster and the seasons are the way they are since then.

The dragon-dynasty wich conquered Westeros in the first place were survivors who fled from this so-called "doom of (name forgotten, sorry)".

# ¿ May 24, 2014 23:31

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 09:56

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

A Typical Goon posted:

In the released winds chapter Euron goes on a big rant about how all Gods and societal norms are bogus and his evidence is that he's murdered three of his brothers, two when they were only babies and one playing the axe throwing game

Book Euron is pretty crazy but he doesn't seemed cursed

I'd bet that this is setting Euron up to get karma'd later. Now only to wait 20 more years to see if I'm right!

# ¿ Dec 3, 2019 20:08

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Ague Proof posted:

Last year, GRRM said if if it wasn't finished by the middle of 2020 that he'd be imprisoned in a cabin in New Zealand

So he's going to break 2 promises

It's not too late to organize a raid on GRRM's home just in case. I'd be willing to rent the cabin in New Zealand for our adventure

# ¿ Jan 2, 2020 20:34

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Liquid Communism posted:

Too bad the characters aren't the audience.

If the reader's getting lost, it's a moment for the author to stop and consider how well they're actually doing the show part of 'show, don't tell'.

Though to be fair, I never really got lost reading Malazan-books, so the author maybe just really overestimated his audience? Anyway, the first one was kind of mediocre, but I managed to have enough fun reading it I eventually made my way through the entire series twice.

On the other hand, I've read some of Kevin J. Anderson's books and liked them well enough, and people on this forum tend to go into this really off-putting rage whenever that guy comes up, so maybe I just have a weird taste and a really high bullshit-threshold?

Also lately I learned that the Witcher books were written by a Polish author and are far better than the games' stories, so I'll probably get around to them at some point, now that I know that they aren't just video game novels

# ¿ Mar 9, 2020 22:24

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

RCarr posted:

I apologize if I offend anyone, as this is just my opinion, but I tried to read the Witcher books and I felt like I was listening to a 13 year old boy narrate himself playing a video game. It was painfully bad, and I couldn�t even finish the first book. It�s maybe one of 3 books in my life that I�ve started reading (out of hundreds) and didn�t finish.

Eh, it could easily be the quality of the translation causing this. I'll try our own translation (German) and see if I like it. If the first book isn't good, welp. You can't like everything. :shrug:

# ¿ Mar 9, 2020 22:44

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Reminder that in the books Tyrion has yet to meet Dany lol

I think in the very last book he actually does. But then the book ends.

# ¿ May 15, 2020 19:04

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Well, if the worst happens, at the least Sanderson can finish another series for us.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2020 23:30

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

SirKibbles posted:

Also we should've been getting Dornish chapters in ASoS if he was going to go into detail about them.

Reminds me of Shara from The Wheel of Time. For some reason, like with the Land of Madness and mainland Seanchan, we never got any chapters or stories dealing with them. And then Jordan died and his Ersatzauthor went just WELP HERE THEY ARE and then there were Sharans. :v:

Maybe we will get tons of new Dornish chapters when GRRM finally buys it and Sanderson gets to write the end of ASoIaF?

# ¿ Jan 19, 2021 23:30

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

For what's it worth, I've read both LoR and WoT and Robert Jordan is clearly the better writer. I'd give Lord of the Rings a 6/10 and Wheel of Time a 8/10.

And I'm saying this as someone who normally prefers SF or non-fiction, so I'm clearly unbiased.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2021 16:34

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

There's also Gormenghast and some other poo poo, but I guess if you don't know something, it's automatically worse than stuff everyone knows. :v:

# ¿ Jan 20, 2021 20:06

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

mind the walrus posted:

Yeah most kids aren't raised in Victorian Britain and hear a lot about downy pillows, and this is the logic they arrive on.

This is fascinating. :allears:

I never even heard of this video game controversy, probably because English isn't my first language and our localization straight up used the word for "feather", so the first time I saw "Phoenix Down" even my bad English immediately went "feather" and then I never thought about this again until today.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 08:22

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TeaJay posted:

As a non-english native as well this is the first time I've ever heard "down" being related to a pillow (or a feather), I've always also taken it as a "party down, Phoenix rez" type of thing.

I'm guessing your country didn't bother localizing into your local language? :v:

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 12:13

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TeaJay posted:

Localizing retro games? That was indeed not a thing in Finland, and for the better, because they would've been inferior to the originals for sure. I think only the bigger european countries had laws for localizing game content and that meant delays on game releases for everyone.

You'd think so, but there are a lot of games (Lufia II) for example, with poo poo English localization but astonishingly high-quality German translation. Generally, you get as much out of a localization as effort has been put in.

There was also the issue where German games sometimes were directly translated from the original Japanese, not from an English script. (Also, :lol:

at English being the "original" version of old Japanese retro games)

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 13:34

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TeaJay posted:

Well, original in terms of what we usually got, it's not like we got the japanese releases.

I agree on the part of good localization, after all, we naturally had a lot of literature translated, and a lot of it is really good - like the book series that is the theme of this thread. We're still waiting for the hardcover translation of Dance of Dragons, mind you (it's already been released as softcover) and the quality is really good. Another series that have gotten acclaim for their translations are Harry Potter and Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, which both have a lot of unique, made-up terms and names and the Finnish translations for them have been excellent as well.

But in terms of retro games? It would've probably been a rather pointless effort to translate Final Fantasy VII for such a small market. If we discuss RPG's, we didn't even get stuff like Chrono Trigger of FF6 released here officially, and translating something like NES games which didn't have much text would've been another pointless effort.

e: Although I will note that manuals were usually translated, which was probably a good thing (although it's probably also where my recollection of inferior translations comes from, since they weren't always very well translated)

Hey, that's interesting! On the German book market, you generally get the hardcover first, and the softcover version only comes months/years later. It's because the hardcover is more expensive, and thanks to the way German book prices are heavily state regulated, more profitable

Though book translation in general suffers the same problems as video games, I think. There's a neat Polish fantasy series I'd like to read, but for some reason the books were never translated into English or German, so that's simply not possible. Or the way the SF mega-series Perry Rhodan has seen 3000+ novellas (or 150+ books, if you only count the improved and re-edited book editions) released, but the amount of PR-stuff available in English is something like 4-6 spin off books and whatever your typical US-citizen could find by rummaging in their grandpa's attic. The number of failed English localizations is quite impressive, while on the opposite end of the spectrum, the Japanese localization has slowly made their way through 1/3rd of that insane number of published novellas.

So there are now people reading books I'll never get to experience in a country right next to us, while at the same time reading books in my natural language which are available in tons of languages, but unexpectedly not in English.

Edit: Another favorite of mine: Obscure Russian SF-novels which got a German translation, but not an English one.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 14:52

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Vichan posted:

And just like GRRM they realised they had written themselves into a corner, only they didn't have the luxury of not delivering.

Now I'm imagining a parallel reality where the series ended abruptly in a Sopranos-style ending just after they've run out of books. :allears:

Better or worse then what we got?

# ¿ Jan 23, 2021 19:14

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

If Winds of Winter comes out, I'll feel compelled to buy it, just to see if things are starting to come together or if GRRM has finally lost it completely. Either way, I'll have fun reading.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2021 16:42

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Sassy Sasquatch posted:

2011 uh. Isn't that also when production started on Star Citizen?

Oh yeah, 10 years old by now. And still a sack full of poo poo. But if you ask one of the true believers, they'd probably tell you that "real" development only started yesterday, so it's unfair to judge this pre-pre-alpha wreckage of a non-game right now, you have to wait until it's finished!

At least GRRM's books are fun to read, when they are finished

# ¿ Feb 4, 2021 07:28

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

This discussion made me look up what happened with The War Against the Chtorr, a SF-series by David Gerrold I used to read. After his fourth book in 1993 the series just ground to a halt, with the author occasionally piping up that yep, he was still writing. Sounding familiar?

Well, he actually managed to finish book 5 (manuscript first draft only) in 2015, and the book was slated to release in 2017. In 2017, Gerrold announced that now he would need a book 6. Book 5 was renamed and the title of book 5 is now the title of book 6.

For some reason I'm getting now this really bad feeling of d�j� vu. :confused:

# ¿ Feb 6, 2021 12:55

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

emanresu tnuocca posted:

In a world where dragons and magic are real, can a person really be diagnosed with a mental illness if he gets convinces he's the subject of some old prophecy?

That's kinda how the whole 'gritty fantasy genre' has its cake and eats it too, imo. Like yeah, rhaegar did a crazy thing but also it's completely rational, but is it??? oh we don't know this is gritty fantasy!

What if the prophecy just straight up tells you "this dude is insane"?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2021 15:43

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So how does Theon and like 50 dudes conquer that castle?

The largest castle in the world is useless if not properly defended. In this case, they scaled the walls and surprised the like 1d6 defenders. (I forgot how many they had, exactly)

Also, the larger a place is, the harder it is to defend. The same small group of defenders in a normal sized castle would have just laughed at Theon and his 50 robbers

He would have been forced to siege the place until food runs out for one side.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2021 20:48

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Drakyn posted:

Speaking of the Dothraki, I'm not sure if this came up recently, but the A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry Guy did a four-part breakdown on them recently, prompted in large part by a particular GRRM quote:

You may be shocked to discover that this is actually totally hallucinatory transcendent bullshit.

Not if you translate "a dash" as meaning 99/100th of something. :v:

# ¿ Mar 6, 2021 15:47

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TERFherder posted:

I started reading this, but got side tracked on his Fremen Mirage, and I gotta say, I don't want to read it. I love Dune, and growing up in the desert It felt like "my" book growing up. I don't feel like having the heart ripped out of it. Like I know that is shallow of me, and hardly progressive, but there you have it.

As I see things, either the Thing You Like is so lovely it's getting constant mockery, in which case you're forced to deal with criticism anyway, or it's good enough on its own merit it can take some mild criticism. Thinking that every bit of criticism is "ripping the heart out" is strangely wrongheaded.

I can't understand people who'd rather put their heads in the sand. I mean talking about thin-skinned, yikes

# ¿ Mar 7, 2021 12:06

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

The only thing I'm learning today is that TERFherder was a huge rear end in a top hat at some point in his life and for some reason wants to tell us this in this thread about a fantasy novel author

This is beyond sad and I suggest stop digging

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 15:26

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

I'm not gonna lie, the show's depiction of the White Walkers was so disappointing, I'm still kind of mad at the show for it.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 17:33

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TERFherder posted:

Thank you for trying to bring us back on topic.Since you did attack me personally, I feel it is appropriate to respond. My story was meant to illustrate that deliberately ignoring something doesn't necessarily invalidate a persons ideals. Sometimes we don't want to argue about the ethics of using leather, we just want to play volleyball. I just want to enjoy the story of Dune without examining the accuracy of the myths or stereotypes that the author relies upon. This doesn't make me thin skinned or unable to accept criticism of Thing that I like.

I agree with you that I was acting like an rear end in a top hat at the time. Much like you are acting like one now.

It's kind of remarkable that you probably completely misunderstood what that poor bastard in your story meant when he talked with you, because what I took away from that was more like "I don't have a ball with artificial leather here so we either can play volleyball with this dumb thing or not at all", which is not about ethics in volleyball, he pointed out that you lacked common sense since your weird "gotcha!" behavior negated the entire point of playing volleyball in this case, if taken fully seriously. But considering you think my observations about your own stories is somehow a "personal attack", this kind of misunderstanding of basic human interactions doesn't surprise me anymore, to be honest.

I'm now pitying that poor guy, who must have had the patience of a saint. If I had to deal with your dumb poo poo back then, I'd started bouncing the volleyball of your face. :colbert:

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

What? They’re the supposed end game for the entire series.

At least until GRRM stopped publishing books. Now it's just that weird spooky thing which looked like it might be important, but never was. :v:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Mar 8, 2021 19:58

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

nine-gear crow posted:

Or alternatively, only one of those examples does track, because I'm pretty sure Snape--though the product of a mind who seeks to to deny basic human rights to a vast swath of people--did not commit or facilitate a genocide like Anakin and Dany did.

Though if we view things through the lens of ancient Greek traditions, Snape is definitely not a hero, since he doesn't kill enough. And Anakin and Dany probably get bonus points for genocides, as per ancient Greek tradition more kills = better hero. :v:

# ¿ Mar 10, 2021 10:43

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Kuiperdolin posted:

It's a general problem of long-running series. In Homeland the CIA is five people who do all the missions, including its director who still and mostly does field work.

Would be less of a problem in animation, as you can then easily fill up the background with people, as long no-one says anything. :v:

# ¿ Mar 15, 2021 12:23

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Alhazred posted:

The german army literally ran out of gas in the middle of invading Soviet. They couldn't get their tanks rolling or their planes in the air. There's no scenario where Germany wins unless if that scenario include magic (and even then the nazis would find a way to gently caress it up).

I've read a story like that. The Nazis managed to ally themselves to a spirit of pure entropy, a being capable of eating even information. It magicked all the Nazis' enemies to death and then hosed off, leaving the Nazis in control of the planet. For a while. Then the stars started going out. Oops!

# ¿ Mar 16, 2021 19:27

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

nine-gear crow posted:

Mine is how dorky Westeros looks when compared to basically the rest of the world map in its various incarnations.

Essos, Ulthos, and Sothoryos all look like real continents, while Westeros is just this weird derpy vertical thing that stretches off the map, and god knows how long Sothoryos keeps going for too. The more they reveal of what the world of the series looks like, the less it makes sense.

Isn't there also yet another continent in the far West, or is the map properly wrapping around and that magic wasteland is represented by the unnamed coast to the Northeast of Ulthos?

Also, if Westeros is South-America sized, another continent hiding in the giant western ocean would mean this planet if loving gigantic, larger than Earth and with higher gravity.

Alternatively, if Westeros is Great Britain sized, the planet is too tiny and there be better multiple more continents hiding outside this map in all directions.

Either way, this map is hosed.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 11:09

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

mastajake posted:

Did they ever explain the seasons thing? Was it due to the Others/White Walkers or whatever?

Oh yes, extensively! You have to read all the books though, as the little bits are sprinkled into off-hand remarks throughout.

There's this freaky continent to the far West of Westeros called Valeris or Valyris or something, and the Targayens came from there. Thousands and thousands of years ago something happened called the "Doom of Valeris", when the people the Targayens came from hosed up really and blew up everything with magic. Since then seasons take multiple years.

At some point after that the original Targayens arrived in Westeros. Apparently they flew from their doomed continent all the way to Westeros with their dragons. They then used their dragons to conquer Westeros. 500 years passed. Then the rebellion happens and the last Targayens have to flee while their daddy gets his stupid insane head chopped off.

Now the first book begins.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 20:08

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

There's also magic. There's often no reason to invent something if you can just ask your neighbor to cast a spell to help you out

Apparently the reason magic in current Westeros is so funky is also due to dragon vikings: The Doom of Whatever not only made seasons stupid, it also lead to this weird Earthdawn-poo poo of magic slowly coming and going over the ages.

The Others awakening and magic coming back is because it's also magic season now. GRRM doesn't tell us anything about the rhythm, though. But poo poo like the Nightwatch getting hosed up by magic zombies in the past tells us that magic is coming and going quite regularly every 500 years or something.

The last time it was magic season was apparently when the Targayens hosed everything up with their dragons, and then the dragons eventually died because it was notmagic season. Truly a strange coincidence that magic season starts coming back just in time for the series to start! :v:

Edit:

GRRM never bothers to tell us, but logic dictates that, like this Winter being Super-Winter, the coming magic age is also something special. This would then explain why the Others are truly returning, instead of just loving with the Nightwatch a bit before pissing off again.

If I get the plot beats right GRRM had planned before he stopped writing, it would probably have gone something:

-Political human bullshit
-OTHERS ATTACK
-Dragons, magic and stuff defeats the Others
-Maybe the protags now need to go visit WestContinent (optional)
-The balance is restored, magic goes back to normal, seasons return to normal
-To keep the ending from not being mature and grimdark enough, 1d6 other important characters get killed.
-Some human gets to be king of the ruins of Westeros

Send me a PM in 2121 when the next book comes out, I want to see how close I got

Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 13, 2021

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 20:38

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:

I wasn't talking about.

I was saying in 6000 years we, here, on earth, went from cave dwelling to space flight and whatever CERN is.

Planetos went from year X as cave dwellers to year Y as medieval society (roughly our 4000 b.c. to 1300 a.d.)

Then spun their wheels as a medieval society for another 6000 years.

It would be like if we, here, now, were still in the boiled leather and stone castle age and still would be 4000+ years from now, having never discovered any of the landmarks of science.

It's really dumb that human progress just completely ceased for 6 millennia in Planetos.

We built settlements as (only confirmed times from archaeology here) early as roughly 12000 BCE, so your calculus is a bit off there.

Modern science also says Jericho has been founded around 10000 BCE, and must have had 3000 people living in it around 8000 BCE. And it certainly wasn't the oldest city, just the oldest we found yet.

Cave dwelling humans have been around for forever. We know from Australia and Aboriginal cave paintings that their civilization was already around by 48000 BCE, since we have several dated places where remnants of settlements have been found.

And we also found out that there was another wave of humans arriving, living, and dying out in Australia before the Aborigines. Those must have arrived around 100k BCE and went extinct by roughly 75k BCE.

I'm just bringing all these details up to show you that spinning your wheels for 6000 years isn't exactly uncommon. It apparently took us several hundred thousand years to upgrade from "cave dwellers" to "bronze age dwellers".

I can excuse this because if there's magic around, technological advances should tend to grind to a halt. If there's enough magic to go around, you arrive at absurd scenarios like people not even bothering with the wheel since they can just magically float all their stuff.

The only question remaining is: Did GRRM actually take all this into account, or was he just lucky the Bible is wrong and mankind's history didn't immediately start on Monday 1st January 4000 BCE? :v:

# ¿ Apr 14, 2021 12:06

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Solice Kirsk posted:

Was it the Aztecs or Mayans that never bothered using wheels? Tech develops differently across civilizations, so if a world just never bothered with an industrial revolution then I could see it plugging along at the middle ages for several thousand years.

South America has some of the most hostile landscape Humans can be found in, so yeah, a lot of SA-civilizations never bothered with the wheel, since it wasn't really useful for carrying poo poo. They did make wheel-shape art objects and traded those around, so it's not like they didn't know what wheels were. They just never had a use for them, and so the entire wheel-related development (including things like mills or advanced mechanics) just bypassed them.

They did other things better, though. The Inca for example became really good at treating wounds related to blunt trauma, like concussions. Arguably better than even contemporary Europe, but that's speculation since Europeans destroyed so much of South America's heritage. :shrug:

# ¿ Apr 14, 2021 15:57

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Evil Fluffy posted:

You're comparing drastically different stages of humanity. Humanity was also still progressing in those periods but it's hard to gauge to what extent because of how few things can survive thousands of years. In ASOIAF they understand astronomy and other sciences well enough and managed to do so and stagnate for thousands of years while the closest analogy for humanity involves comparing it to the earliest human civilizations when Westeros is far beyond that.

As mentioned before, Westeros had to go thousands of years without any sort of noteworthy inventor and they did so while also having Oldtown's university-like education system. The lack of progress would require active repression of creativity on a global scale or some massive regression-inflicting events on a regular basis.

If you have magic, creativity just floods into making magic spells instead, since that's far easier. Hell, even those dumb wizard vikings' swords were magic, so there was probably lots of progress, just all related to magic. And since the Doom of Valyria (I hope I got the name right this time), magic keeps disappearing and re-appearing, which must gently caress over everyone trying to make sense of the universe, stifling all sciences very badly.

So you could say that yes, there's some serious active repression going on, but it was caused by Wizard Vikings in the Far West blowing up fantasy nukes, not political organizations or something.

Anyway, without this huge gently caress-up, magic would be stable and all progress would presumably make the world of Westeros more and more unlike our own as time passes. So they still wouldn't have steam engines or whatever, instead all their tech would be magic based bullshit we IRL-people couldn't begin to comprehend. Since magic doesn't work here. :v:

# ¿ Apr 14, 2021 18:34

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

pseudanonymous posted:

People want to make their lives better. Farmers and poo poo. They invent stuff. Some farmer who wants to grow better crops is gonna try this and that, he's not going to say "well I want more turnips so I'm going to wizard school" he can't go to wizard school.

This is also driven by the idea that magic is just strange physics and works according to natural laws which can be reasoned and understood and then it provides a force of motive working power, essentially an energy source, that can be used for everyday practical things. It's not impossible but I don't see much evidence of that in GoT. Nobody has any records of people with magical plows or magical windmills or magical hot tubs.

Would you expect progress to be slower in a world with magic? Maybe. But they aren't doing anything practical with magic in Game of Thrones that I can recall. Most inventions and discoveries are driven by practicality.

I'll stop you right there, Mr. Potter. Why do you think you need magic school to use magic? Magic is a natural force in the background. Just look at our world: Tons of shamans, parapsychologists and other weirdos, and magic does not work here.

If a Farmer wants to grow better crops in a world filled with magic, well they don't need to go to school to learn how to experiment, they can go ruin their own crops perfectly fine on their own.

Besides, where do you think magic schools came from in the first place, if not from people experimenting? You're so wrong it hurts!

Also, you can't use GoT as source of evidence since we're wildly speculating about stuff GRRM never told us about. We never saw the world unfucked by magic vikings! We're both just walking on clouds right now.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2021 16:53

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

sunday at work posted:

In the book's original timeline Columbus leads a new crusade to capture the Holy Land which leaves Europe weakened and eventually overrun by the Aztecs.

The Aztec conquest of Europe and the European conquest of the Americas (orchestrated by an alternate Pastwatch who send Columbus a vision that convinces him to sail west instead of leading a crusade) both lead to a future of environmental exploitation and collapse.

The Pastwatch characters that the book is about avert that future collapse by innoculating the Aztecs against European diseases and accelerating their metallurgy so they can meet Columbus on equal terms and they all live happily ever after together.

This is so dumb and logically incoherent. Did the Aztecs taking Europe also then immediately die to our diseases? Because if not, this is pure nonsense. Apparently in timeline A, the Aztecs were perfectly fine contacting Europeans and advanced fast enough to go to a vastly different climate and defeat the population of an entire continent.

You'd think innoculating those magical Super-Aztecs and accelerating their technological progress would just lead to Europe falling even faster. But nope.

Never mind that both Mayans (cyclical collapse, mostly gone by the point Europeans show up) and Aztecs (unstable tribal coalition wrecked by rebellions and close to breaking) are the worst South American civilizations an author could choose. At that point why not go full blast insanity and make the destroyers of Christianity be the Inca? At least their empire was somewhat stable and still growing before European diseases coming from the first point of contact reached them and wrecked them completely.

I think as a writer, if you want to use stuff from real life, you should do your due diligence and at least look up some modern sources to make sure you aren't writing total bullshit. But apparently that's not like how Orson Scott Card rolls, yikes. :psyduck:

# ¿ Apr 17, 2021 20:53

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

The only book of that series I've read was "Xenocide", and it was all about Ender's self-flagellation about how wrong it was to xenocide the bug aliens. Including conversations with the new bug queen he saved and brought to a hidden planet, to grow a new civilization in peace.

It's basically a 180� from everything else I've heard about the series and I think I dodged a bullet by kramering in near the end of the series, instead of starting at book 1

# ¿ Apr 27, 2021 12:39

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

ChubbyChecker posted:

did you gaslight the series overton window too?

you'll have to translate your question from moron to human and try again, sorry

BananaNutkins posted:

In Ender's Game the point of the story is, "Sometimes you actually need a Hitler to do the dirty work for you." It's still the only entertaining book in the series because of space soccer. Speaker for the Dead is about Card's Mormon missionary trip to Brazil, and Xenocide is Ender being new new Jesus and learning how to do miracles after moping around being an old man who regrets his life for 300 pages.

That's an apt description, and I really regret having ever learned about Card's dumb books. Though the bug aliens were cool, I'll give him that.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2021 16:46

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

TERFherder posted:

Scientists peak in their 20s

That's bullshit, most scientists in their 20s are still trying (and nowadays, failing) to get tenure. If the work you've done as a scientist is already the best it can get before you even reach 30, you're a failure as a scientist.

As just one example, Albert Einstein published his famous work about general relativity in 1915, when he was already 36 years old.

Besides that, science is hard, ongoing work which is never finished. There's no real way to "peak". If you're a good scientist, you'll continue publishing until you turn to dust.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2021 10:52

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 09:56

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Coquito Ergo Sum posted:

I tried with LOTR, I really did. I just can't handle the way those books are written. There's just so much fluff. A character can't begin a song without like three paragraphs of setup. Barely a line of dialogue can be spoken without the narrator injecting lore or information. I got halfway through Two Towers and tapped out. I understand they're important and have an appeal as a modern day attempt at "the classics" but I'm just not able to do it.

now try the Night Land

# ¿ Oct 20, 2021 17:01

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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