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I've watched through the series more times than I can count, and I always feel a little pang of disappointment when Will is introduced because the series really does drop quite a bit in quality very quickly. I think my major issue with Season 5 and 6 is that the characters don't feel like themselves anymore and they definitely don't feel like colleagues anymore. It's an ensemble show, and the magic of it comes through the characters interacting with each other. Then we get to Season 5 and 6 and everyone is angry with each other all the time and making snarky backhanded comments to each other that just come off as mean rather than funny or playful. It's hard to pinpoint moments since it's a general feeling, but obviously the physical fight between Josh and Toby is the worst example. These are professionals and they're friends and the circumstances that lead them to actually coming to blows is so ridiculous it's hard to believe. Other examples are from the lockdown episode, "No Exit" where CJ and Donna are talking and they're just so mean to each other for no real reason, and Toby and Will just spend the episode yelling. It's just so far removed from the best of West Wing (Season 2).
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May 27, 2012 00:21
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I like Will during the parts where he works for the president, so middle of season 4 and then season 7. He's kind of a douche in between.
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May 27, 2012 02:05
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BrooklynBruiser posted:I'm watching the Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail through Two Cathedrals stretch of Season 2, and Jesus Christ this is goddamned perfect television. I've seen Season 2 probably around 20 times and while I know all the episodes extremely well it's at "somebody's going to emergency..." that I know the order all the way to the end of the season. I can never keep the order of those middle episodes straight, but those episodes all lead into each other so well that it's easy to remember. Besides, the Stackhouse Filibuster is one of the best non-season finale episodes. It would be the best but Noel is the clear winner and I will fight anyone who says different.
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May 27, 2012 04:33
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I really loved that scene, and that whole episode. She saw that despite the fact that she hates everything about their policies that they are people who are trying their best to do good. It wasn't about yay liberals! at all. That episode was about moving beyond someone's political beliefs to appreciate them as a person. Her intro episode had Ainsley learning that lesson and the next episode is about everyone at the white house doing the same.
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May 27, 2012 21:14
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Joementum posted:He also shouldn't be bragging about 'creating' only 3.8 million jobs in nearly four years. It wasn't nearly 4 years at this point. This was the end of season 2 so it was just over 2 years. They were 8 months in at the beginning of season 1, and if the season finale was roughly in real time (which they tend to do), it was about 28 months. I don't know if that really changes the point the article was trying to make, but they could at least get their facts straight.
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Jun 5, 2012 18:40
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DominoDancing posted:To those who were around at the time: When season 7 originally aired, how big was the part of the audience that wanted Vinick to win? To go back to this, here is an article MSNBC wrote about the poll they did after the debate. So it wasn't completely even, but it's still a large part of the audience.
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Jun 18, 2012 17:01
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They're only candidates at that point though, so while he might remember from the previous election, it's still gotta be a little shocking to see them all at once.
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Jun 28, 2012 21:49
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:What episode was it that Toby was so upset at something that happened that he tried to get into Leo's office through the front door, it was broken or locked, and by the time someone could get across the room to open it for him, he had entered through Margaret's door in order to continue yelling? It's the ruling about how many debates to have. Richie wanted 2, they wanted 5, and it came down that there would only be 2 debates because they couldn't come to an agreement and so they ran out of time to have 5 debates. Tobi barges in and after reading it says "he got exactly what he wanted for dragging his feet!" This is also the episode before Debate Camp and then Game On follows it and those are by far the best episodes of the season (Season 4).
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Jul 19, 2012 06:10
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I'm not sure how much input the actors have on the script, but I love when Toby repeats back what someone just said to him with different inflection, or he'll just repeat himself. "The problem is that Oakenwood thinks that the mission of the NEA is to subsidize artists in this country." "The mission of the NEA IS to subsidize artists, in this country!" And when Josh is trying to find an excuse to see Amy again. "We can't just compromise like that!" "They want us to compromise, like that." And with the poet laureate "If you stand up in the president's face that'll be the story, and nobody is going to care about what you care about. Nobody is going to care, about what you care about." And the whole "they'll like us when we win" speech. There may be other examples, but those are the lines I know off the top of my head. That's not weird, right?
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Jul 31, 2012 19:28
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Nah, Margaret's great. She's weird as hell, but she's incredibly good at her job. We see that more when she with CJ than with Leo, since Leo has the insanity all under control.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:14
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I think Toby does try to do that a couple of times, including when they're locked in the office together during the lockdown, but he's so hurt after being abandoned that he screws it up by being an rear end about it.
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Aug 5, 2012 19:06
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The characters don't feel like themselves in Season 5. Everyone is just sad and angry the whole time, and it never really picks up. I have no problem with the subject matter, but it lost a lot of the joy that earlier seasons had.
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Aug 14, 2012 16:51
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I don't mind 90 Miles Away, it's just not that interesting. It's about Leo going to Cuba to try to reopen relations and also about his past with Kate Harper which he doesn't remember because he was drunk. Also there's a subplot about Charlie and termites, so yeah. I rewatch the series basically all the time, and the episodes I skip every time are Slow News Day, which is the one in which Toby tries to save social security but gets screwed by Josh and Will because it's a secret, and The Long Goodbye, which is the one where CJ goes home for her reunion and her dad is worse off than she realized. For anyone new, I wouldn't recommend skipping any episodes, but on multiple viewings, these really don't hold anything for me.
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Aug 16, 2012 16:32
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Access wouldn't be nearly so bad if they didn't show the footage of CJ trying to explain her job like 4 times throughout the episode. It's just repetitive.
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Aug 16, 2012 16:39
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TheBigBad posted:I like to call that gravitas. And how do you measure that?
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Oct 3, 2012 05:07
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I do that too. I don't listen to music on my commute, I listen to West Wing. When I get to the end of the series I start over, so I've listened to all of the episodes probably a dozen times, but it's been a long, long time since I've actually watched an episode. That said, there are some moments that I will always pull my phone out and actually watch: - The end of Season 3's Christmas episode when Leo is given the "Bartlet for America" napkin and he cries - The end of Season 4's Christmas episode where O Holy Night is playing over various scenes - The end of Abby's Birthday party where she says she's giving up her license and they just stare at each other - That one scene after Zoey's been kidnapped where the family is going to church while Donna and Josh are looking at all the flowers and candles for Zoey - At the convention in the Season 6 finale, with Leo and the president not really looking at each other backstage. - When Josh and Donna finally kiss goddamnit. drat, I planned on just naming one or two, but couldn't stop remembering awesome scenes that have no dialogue in them that are amazing. I love this show so much.
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Oct 3, 2012 15:04
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Caufman posted:This and not supporting a study on remote prayer to pass a foreign ops bill were my biggest Bartlett letdowns. Danny was right, why are Democrats always so bumfuzzled? Yeah I never really had a problem with that idea. It was $115,000 and they said it wasn't just Christianity based. Fund the drat study and pass your stupid bill.
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Nov 5, 2012 18:29
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There's a couple of episodes that pair really serious stories with funny ones. The other one that springs to mind is Ainsley's first episode (In this White House).
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Dec 5, 2012 21:02
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Up until when he collapsed they were under the impression that he was in remission. I'm pretty sure they've only told Hoynes before then. Leo lists a bunch of staff in 17 people, but we don't know when they found out.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:23
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myron cope posted:Yeah Leo confronts her, and says she wouldn't have come home if it was just the flu, and he sees her trying to hide the panic. She tries to insist it's just the flu, but then says he has MS and that a fever could be fatal. I dunno, but you shouldn't ask him about it, cause he'll think you're being snotty.
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Dec 8, 2012 18:43
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I've watched 5 or so of the commentaries. They're not on every episode, and they're generally not that good. They don't really give interesting information but instead just have the director, writer, and producer congratulating each other for the great job they did.
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Dec 27, 2012 03:18
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In the same vein, The Simpsons commentaries are fantastic. They're every episode, give a lot of interesting information about the writing and animation process, and in general are hilarious. It's funny because all the writers and show runners are nerds who know the show inside and out, but whenever they have members of the cast on, they often don't really know all that much about the series.
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Dec 27, 2012 04:34
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The only reason I don't like "Access" is because they repeat footage many times. She does her job description speech at least three times in the episode. Other than that, I don't mind the concept for the episode.
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Jan 1, 2013 04:01
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There are a few continuity mistakes throughout the series. In Season 1 in order to get one of the seat on the FEC to open up they fire the ambassador to Bulgaria (Ken Cochran) because he's having an affair with the daughter of the prime minister. Later, there's an episode where a woman pilot is going to be court-martialed for having an affair with another officer. During their discussion, Leo refers back to the ambassador by saying "somewhere in South America, I can't remember" and Bartlet corrects him by saying he was ambassador to Brazil. Another one is that during Debate Camp in Season 4 there's a flashback to the first few days they were in office, and a reporter tells CJ that his group will be praying for her on a specific day. Then about 8 episodes later when they're trying to pass the foreign ops bill, one of the senators wants a study conducted about remote prayer for his vote. When he brings up remote prayer Toby says "yeah, CJ got spammed with that a few months ago." It was a few months in TV time, but for them it would have been over 4 years ago.
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Jan 10, 2013 15:35
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I enjoyed it for what it was, but it's definitely not an episode of The West Wing. It just happens to use the same actors.
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Jan 13, 2013 20:44
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So I guess we're pretending seasons 6 and 7 never happened for the purposes of making a point?
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Jan 30, 2013 21:59
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FrozenVent posted:And Donna and Margaret, I guess. Especially Margaret. Margaret: I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good. Leo: You can sign the President's name? Margaret: Yeah! Leo: On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else? Margaret: Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea? Leo: I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat. Margaret: I'd probably end up doing some time for that. Leo: I would think.
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Jul 21, 2013 04:29
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The line definitely made me think she's a lesbian. Although reading that interview I guess there's a theory that it's Bruno? I definitely had never heard that before.
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Jul 21, 2013 19:14
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Buane posted:Jane Lynch pops up as a White House reporter right in the beginning of Season 2, I believe. Yep! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRAGo1R6yQU I still like John Locke as the replacement chairman of the joint chiefs.
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Sep 3, 2013 20:12
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The left side is straight out of a Sears catalogue, while the right side is just insanity. Who's the guy with the wig? What's with the kid? Why does John Spencer look like Janel just shoved something up his butt.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:25
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withak posted:I think the context implied that it was $35k before taxes, so he probably took home something around $25k. He probably made relatively little compared to everyone else who works around the president (with all of their education and years of experience), but for someone with no college degree, no technical training, and basically no experience it seems about right. I suppose it could be on the low side considering the hours though. He also is supporting his sister who is in high school on the one salary.
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Dec 29, 2013 22:25
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That is amazing. And makes me miss John Spencer 
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Jan 25, 2014 00:10
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I'm kinda hoping that was for a school project or something, because goddamn. Although, looking at the end it doesn't seem that way.
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May 21, 2014 16:47
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Overall the show becomes less funny. That's actually what I think is the biggest problem with season 5. They take a bunch of people who are friends and joke around with each other and make them all grimdark and angry. They eventually lose the anger for the most part, but I don't think they capture the comedy again.
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Jul 19, 2014 23:39
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That's not to say it gets bad. No part of the show is ever "bad" it just changes in tone after a while.
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Jul 20, 2014 00:01
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DominoDancing posted:Melodrama? Yes, absolutely, at least in season 5. But grimdarkness, that really is a stretch. Shutdown Twenty Five Gaza
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Jul 20, 2014 21:24
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I think he was expecting Bartlet to back down but when he said says "I'll need your successor in place before you leave" he just stammers "I'll get you some names."
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Jul 24, 2014 22:20
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Ainsley makes her share of valid points.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:21
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I really liked Isaac and Ishmael, but again as a standalone play that's not really in the timeline or even with the characters. The fact that it came out weeks after 9/11 I think is what makes it especially interesting to watch.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:36
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Mu Zeta posted:"Yo I heard all Muslims are terrorists, right" Hurr Except this was literally happening in the weeks after 9/11. I'm in Canada and a friend of mine's brother ended up shaving his beard because he was getting so harassed by people. People were terrified.
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Aug 20, 2014 15:08
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