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  Some may call them the jack of all trades, master of none. Others (myself included) call them probably the best all around (or at least most practical) style of bike you can buy right off the showroom floor. The Sport Tourer. A toy is a toy, but it's nice to be able to pick up a few groceries ($125 worth) or, a couple cases of beer AND some firewood when you're on your bike. It's also drat nice to be able to carve up the corners on the same trip or talk about bikes when you get pulled over by the cops... because there's a chance he's on the same bike when he pulls you over.  Let's talk about STs and what they're good for, what they're not and what's on the market and horizon. I myself own the above pictured deep red ST1100. Had it for about 7 years. It's been a fantastic bike and has never needed a thing other that the most basic routine maintenance. I take it out on day trips during the summer and take some great roads. Comfortable on the highway at pretty much any speed you want and goes darn near 500K before you need to fill it up again. I put some new Battlax-023 tires on it this spring and the drat thing feels like a new bike. However, I find myself being infected with the itch to buy something new... and I must say I'm strongly considering the new Concours 14. I always thought the old Connie was about as attractive a bag of smashed assholes but the new one really appeals to me. The power, style and creature comforts seem great. While the ST1100 isn't a wimp or uncomfortable, there seems to be some great bikes on the market and it, well, is lacking some of the creature comforts that are mostly standard nowadays on the newer bikes. While my idea of this thread is to talk about STs in general, I also selfishly plan on capitalizing on the discussion for a likely upcoming purchase. I think the Concours 1400 is pretty much the whole package. Nice size bags, good looking and supposedly the 2010 corrected the mistakes that Kawi made on introduction a couple years earlier by making it handle even better and increased the creature comforts and safety with tweaking the ABS and traction control. I also found myself considering the FJR1300 but, truth be told, for the price the Concours appeals to me that much more and it still has a 5spd. A "somewhat" local dealer has a Guzzi Norge that I might just have to ride but I've read some sketchy things about Guzzi reliability. The ST1300 is just "meh" to me. Seems like the Accord of bikes. While my 1100 was certainly it's progenitor, it almost seems more sedated to me even though it's pushing more power. What's new? What do you like? What do you hate? slidebite fucked around with this message at 05:01 on May 22, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2011 18:14
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As a Bandit owner I'm contractually bound to remind you about the Bandit 1250 and how its an awesome sport touring bike, has ABS and all that. In keeping with the thread though, I do own a Bandit 1200, and while its decidedly on the "sport" end of the sport-touring spectrum, it can still eat up miles like no ones business. I like that it has the performance of a sportbike, with the comfort of a standard bike, and the torque to pull a house off its foundation.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:25
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I don't have a ton of experience with big sport touring bikes, but riding the Concours 14 was a giant disappointment after riding a ZX14. Supposedly the same engine, but with the balls chopped completely off. It's amazing that they managed to ruin the engine so much. The regular ZX14 engine would be amazing just as it is in the Concours.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:25
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I've seriously always thought that Suzuki should make a more touring oriented Hayabusa. The powerplant is perfect for it. Just throw some upright comfy ergos in the mix, and you have what the Connie 14 should have been. Of course that would cannibalize the Bandit 1250, which is down on power compared to the Busa, but still has more than enough. Apparently the B1250 motor, which is not shared with any other bike in the Suzuki lineup is completely magical in its own right. Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 18:27
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What's the downsides of the ST11 and ST13? Aside from the laughable Honda name premium. A fellow rider bought an FJR a couple years ago because he did a bench comparison of the ST, FJR and C14 and picked the FJR. While he hardly rides the bike, it's had two or three recalls performed on it, the upcoming on being the dreaded ground spider. I wonder if it was the best choice.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:27
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Skier posted:What's the downsides of the ST11 and ST13? Aside from the laughable Honda name premium. On the up side, the valve covers are easy to get to when you have to do a valve check.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:56
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I had a 6-gen VFR for a year or so. It's on the lighter, sportier side and is still the smoothest, most comfortable bike I've ever been on. Vtec means the bike is electric-quiet below 6k for cruising. Above that and the sound and power changes dramatically. Decent controls, good wind blockage with a ST Double bubble screen (It still holds the top speed record for me), but a ton of heat pours off the bike, making it miserable in summer traffic but actually pretty nice in the winter. Mine had the optional hard luggage which will hold a helmet each but not much more. Quality, fit and finish are good on them but they are quite a bit smaller than your average givi stuff. It was fairly easy to do regular maintenance on. Stuff like the coolant fill and battery are not "mass-centralized" so are easy to get to. Center stand and single-side swingarm also made working on it stress-free. Valve checks are supposed to be a nightmare but if you get a low miles one you'll probably never have to do it. When I rode it I felt like it had near-sportbike performance and was satisfied with it, but after I got an actual sportbike the difference was clear. Compared to the Ninja, the VFR was heavy, bouncy, too soft and turn in took forever. That being said if I could trade back I might still do it, it was perfect for pretty much all of the riding I now do on the Ninja. 
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Jul 12, 2011 19:16
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I've been eyeing the Triumph Sprint GT as a potential candidate for my next primary ride. It looks pretty great and less expensive all-around. But the final drive is a chain. On one hand, that's a lot of fiddling for a bike that's supposed to sop up miles. On the other hand, they've mitigated a good bit of the fiddle with the single sided swingarm and eccentric axle carrier.  Do any of you guys tour on a chain drive? Is it as much of a pain as I think?
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Jul 12, 2011 19:38
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hayden. posted:I don't have a ton of experience with big sport touring bikes, but riding the Concours 14 was a giant disappointment after riding a ZX14. Supposedly the same engine, but with the balls chopped completely off. It's amazing that they managed to ruin the engine so much. The regular ZX14 engine would be amazing just as it is in the Concours. Edit: (the motor being detuned I mean) Skier posted:What's the downsides of the ST11 and ST13? Aside from the laughable Honda name premium. I think the biggest drawback is probably they're on the boring side compared to a lot in my limited experience on different bikes. The ST11 at the time of its retirement was getting a little long in the tooth. quote:A fellow rider bought an FJR a couple years ago because he did a bench comparison of the ST, FJR and C14 and picked the FJR. While he hardly rides the bike, it's had two or three recalls performed on it, the upcoming on being the dreaded ground spider. I wonder if it was the best choice. slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 19:45
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Retarded Pimp posted:It's pretty heavy. Also:  All to check my valves.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:48
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Gnaghi posted:Gonna need photos of it with the bags on. clutchpuck posted:I've been eyeing the Triumph Sprint GT as a potential candidate for my next primary ride. It looks pretty great and less expensive all-around. I'm not a huge fan of Triumph parts network. The simplest things always take forever to get to you. Two weeks for a clutch cable? Not real happy about that. Not stopping me from riding the Triumph everywhere, though.  Chains aren't a big deal. Hit it with readily available WD-40 when it starts making noise and make sure you're not embarking on a 10,000 mile trip with a tired chain and sprocket set. slidebite: what's the check interval for valves? 16k mi?
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Jul 12, 2011 19:50
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Skier posted:slidebite: what's the check interval for valves? 16k mi? slidebite fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 19:55
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Skier posted:Gonna need photos of it with the bags on. It's not nearly as good looking.   
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Jul 12, 2011 19:58
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Skier posted:WD-40  I hope you didn't mean using it to lube said chain.
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Jul 12, 2011 20:34
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AncientTV posted:
No, it just knocks off hundreds of miles of dust and dirt. I use it as a cleaner not a lube. I just don't lube the chain on the road any more and see no difference in lifespan.
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Jul 12, 2011 20:49
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Phat_Albert posted:I've seriously always thought that Suzuki should make a more touring oriented Hayabusa. The powerplant is perfect for it. Just throw some upright comfy ergos in the mix, and you have what the Connie 14 should have been. But is is not a hypertourer so that's enough difference to make it worth while. 
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Jul 12, 2011 21:27
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slidebite posted:A toy is a toy, but it's nice to be able to pick up a few groceries ($125 worth) or, a couple cases of beer AND some firewood when you're on your bike. It's also drat nice to be able to carve up the corners on the same trip or talk about bikes when you get pulled over by the cops. I've done all of that on old ninja 250. Or is this a hard bags only club? Just think of it as a quarter concours. 
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Jul 13, 2011 01:22
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Welp, seems like I might be very serious more sooner than later. Even got a tentative blessing from the wife to buy a new ride. As fate would have it, a classifieds search lead me to find an ad from a dealer about 5 hours from me. They have a brand new, just out of the crate 2010 Concours in blue (same bike as in the OP) for about $3500 under MSRP. The 2010 is the exact same as the 2011 except the color and also the year where all the refinements were added after the initial launch. Only catch is I don't know if it's the ABS/traction control model or not.  blugu64 posted:I've done all of that on old ninja 250. Or is this a hard bags only club? Just think of it as a quarter concours. That said, I'd love to read a thread about touring on a Ninja 250 
slidebite fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 02:25
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I just read a glowing review of the Kawasaki Z1000SX in Fast Bikes mag. http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/Z1000SXTourer Not for sale in the states, though. At least not yet. Seems like it would be a lighter, more lithe alternative to the big Connie.
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Jul 13, 2011 02:49
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sigtrap posted:I just read a glowing review of the Kawasaki Z1000SX in Fast Bikes mag. http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/Z1000SXTourer Isn't the Z1000SX just the Ninja 1000 with the additional hard luggage?
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Jul 13, 2011 03:22
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Z3n posted:Isn't the Z1000SX just the Ninja 1000 with the additional hard luggage? Different seat/tail, bigger tank, remapped fuelling. If I were to go for a sport-tourer I'd be making a beeline for one of these:  Exactly like this. 2ndclasscitizen fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 03:48
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currently riding an '05 ZZR600 kawasaki. it's nice, and pretty much paved the way for other sport touring bikes. sadly i must settle for fabric saddlebags, givy never made aftermarket luggage for it. the concours 1400 is my dream bike. actually scratch that, the "schpeltiger" from "no more heroes" is my dream bike. dayum
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Jul 13, 2011 03:59
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My tubby 5th Gen doesn't do anything particularly well but I honestly can't see myself ever getting rid of it.  I do adore the straight-cut gears in the camshafts mixing with the intoxicating growl of the V-4.In all honesty if I could reasonably get the bike on a diet that would drop 50 lbs out of the upper half of it, it could be described as the "perfect motorcycle". I just feel like it's a little beefy for a "sport" tourer.
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Jul 13, 2011 04:23
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Different seat/tail, bigger tank, remapped fuelling. According to the website they both have 5 gallon tanks and I couldn't see any other difference. The Z1000 (Naked) and the Ninja 1000 are both different but I think the Ninja 1000 is the American name for the "Touring" version of the bike.
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Jul 13, 2011 04:23
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Z3n posted:According to the website they both have 5 gallon tanks and I couldn't see any other difference. The Z1000 (Naked) and the Ninja 1000 are both different but I think the Ninja 1000 is the American name for the "Touring" version of the bike. Ninja 1000 and Z1000SX are the same bike.
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Jul 13, 2011 05:19
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I'm a big fan of the 5th gen VFR, but part of me thinks that the gen 4 really was/is the best VFR if you want a sporty sport touring bike. A friend of mine owns one and hopefully I'll get to ride it fairly soon. Just tossing out the Aprilia Falco as a great budget sport touring bike. They are available for <$4k when you can find them and they're just a ton of fun. Hard bags will be an issue, but given how well they ride it's worth rigging something up or having soft bags.
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Jul 13, 2011 07:36
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blugu64 posted:I've done all of that on old ninja 250. Or is this a hard bags only club? Just think of it as a quarter concours. Hey, I toured with a half of my bike two summers ago! This was on one of the Great Lakes in Canada somewhere. The Ninja was an all-around piece of poo poo, ate about a quart of oil every 500 miles or so and was basically slowly falling apart the whole trip out to the Tetons and back. But she made it and my buddy would never say an ill word about her.  My Concours is fantastic. I don't disagree about the aesthetics (although I kind of dig that they blatantly ripped off the k100 and then didn't bother updating its looks for 20 years) but I can't imagine a better touring bike. I'm not sure I'll ever get rid of it, it just does its job so well. It doesn't do city riding so well, unfortunately. On top of being pretty long and heavy it's like riding a space heater it puts out so much heat, and in DC summers and traffic that makes riding kind of unappealing.
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Jul 13, 2011 16:47
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Honda ST1300 owner checking in... perhaps the only one here? I don't think I've seen anyone else post that they had one. slidebite posted:I think the biggest drawback is probably they're on the boring side compared to a lot in my limited experience on different bikes. The ST1300 is a little less "sport" and a bit more "touring". This doesn't mean it won't lift the front wheel in first and second, or that you can't keep up with most other bikes, or that you can't embarrass small sports cars at the stoplight (not that I'm speaking from experience, or anything... *ahem*). It's just not the fastest tourer, there can be a bit of on/off throttle harshness that one has to learn to adjust for, and it doesn't have all the fancy electronic bits that most new bikes are carrying, but what it does do - reliably devour mile after mile of pavement - it does well. With a seven gallon tank, riding 200+ miles before needing to refuel is the norm. I went from a thirty year old Suzuki GS850 to the ST about 3 months after I started riding again. It's a heavy bike, and I've dropped it twice since buying it almost two years ago. Fortunately, there are built in tip over guards and there was no damage to the bike due to my stupidity. In addition to the 32L side bags, I have a 52L Givi top box for even more storage. Picking up a weeks worth of groceries for two people is not a problem, and depending on what I need to get, trips to Costco are not completely out of the question either. The ST is my daily transportation, and I think it makes a great commuter bike even though its size makes filtering and splitting difficult. The ability to pull up to work, take out my lunch, laptop, and whatever else I needed to bring with me and toss boots, helmet, and other gear into hard locking bags for the day is something I now take for granted. The full fairing and windshield do a good job of pushing rain away from the rider, and with all the storage it's no problem to carry rain gear along all the time. Maintenance since buying it? Oil changes, tires, brake pads, brake and clutch fluid flush, replaced the secondary master cylinder (about $130), and replaced the clutch safety switch on the handlebar ($15). Raven457 fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 18:27
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n8r posted:I'm a big fan of the 5th gen VFR, but part of me thinks that the gen 4 really was/is the best VFR if you want a sporty sport touring bike. A friend of mine owns one and hopefully I'll get to ride it fairly soon. Ah crap man I don't think I ever told you my brother got a 4th gen. As far as we know it was subject to a pretty nasty lowside, but he bought it as a "mechanic's special" since we were expecting him to drop it eventually. This winter he and I are going to tear it apart, make some repairs/upgrades and find new fairings. I was really blown away at the difference between the 4th and 5th gen VFR - his seems a LOT lighter than the 5th gen is as well as having a bit more initial acceleration off the line. Once you start revving it up the 5th kind of takes the lead, but that's probably because his bike has quite a few more miles than mine does. I really like the 4th gen. I have the distinct feeling that once we get the suspension set up and the carbs tuned properly the 4th gen will have no issues handing my bike it's rear end on the curvy roads. Sorry for the heinously lovely picture but this is back when I was storing stuff for my sister's apartment in my garage. It is a lot cleaner now. 
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Jul 14, 2011 01:43
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Skier, what year was your buddies FJR that's been trouble prone?
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Jul 14, 2011 18:36
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Hey, I just went touring on my FZ6. Mine's the black one.  I averaged around 48mpg, with my highest being 52.8. I just need a corbin seat and I'm set. E: I'd love to install a set of hard luggage at some point, too.
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Jul 14, 2011 18:58
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slidebite posted:Skier, what year was your buddies FJR that's been trouble prone? 2008 or 2009. His bike hasn't experienced any of the failures, but it's been in at least once for recalls. Ignition, I think. Gnaghi: those bags look decently sized. Able to fit a good amount of stuff in 'em?
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Jul 14, 2011 19:05
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Skier posted:Gnaghi: those bags look decently sized. Able to fit a good amount of stuff in 'em? IIRC they were exactly the size of my large helmet, maybe a hair bigger around the top and sides. I didn't have full-size race boots at the time but I don't think they would be able to fit without trying to bend them. It was pretty neat going food shopping with those bags. Get there, throw helmet and gloves in one and jacket in the other and walk around like a regular person, then take the gear out and throw in 3-4 shopping bags and ride home. No backpacks, no carrying stuff. I still didn't use them too often though cause I commuted in traffic and love lane splitting. I was always torn between using them and leaving them home. 
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Jul 14, 2011 21:13
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I second the Bandit 1250 as a sport tourer. Couldn't get the GT model with the hard bags here in the USofA, but dang it I like naked and mostly naked bikes better anyway. Throw a set of soft luggage on it and away we go. Cortech sport bag system...Though the roomier tri-bag system would fit as well.  In the tail bag is a sleeping bag, tent, and inflate-able air mattress. The saddle bags contain 5-days of clothes, and an extra set of sneakers.
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Jul 15, 2011 04:57
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Skreemer posted:I second the Bandit 1250 as a sport tourer. Couldn't get the GT model with the hard bags here in the USofA, but dang it I like naked and mostly naked bikes better anyway. Throw a set of soft luggage on it and away we go. Well Hell. I've got a bandit with a slip-on aftermarket single-sided 4-2-1 that sits pretty high, so it makes my bags sit strange. I want the OEM exhaust back. I want big, hard-sided, keyed-to-the-bike cases. I want all this to come off and still have a sport(y) bike. Thanks for reassuring me that the bike isn't going to melt by sitting at 7k for 3 hours.
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Jul 15, 2011 05:49
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You'd really have to be trying in order to kill a bandit motor. Running at 7k on the highway won't even make it bat an eyelash
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Jul 15, 2011 06:20
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A b12 engine is a bored out, detuned gsxr1100 engine. It will go forever. They are fantastically reliable. Efb!
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Jul 15, 2011 06:21
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Skier posted:What's the downsides of the ST11 and ST13? Aside from the laughable Honda name premium. After owning my ST1300 for almost two years and nearly 25,000 miles, I'd say the downsides would be: It's loving heavy... Like, 700+lbs heavy. That's before the rider, passenger, and anything else you may want to load into the bags. There's a considerable amount of heat from the engine that is noticeable at walking speeds, parking lots and sitting in traffic or at a light. Some people complain about it more than others - I ride with gear on and it doesn't bother me too much, other owners piss and moan and hack up their inner cowls to help get cooler air flowing. Front fairing pockets get rather warm due to the engine heat. This can be bad, depending on what items you have stored in them. The stock seat sucks. Seriously. For a touring bike, I would have expected the stock seat to be nice, but nope. Shipping the seat to Spencer to have the seat modded for $75 bucks gave me a seat that's much closer to what I imagined the seat would have been. The stock taillight sucks, and is almost invisible in bright sunlight. I fixed this by adding an extra LED light bar to the fender, and a brake/turn/running light kit to the topbox. LED portion of dash display is hard to read in bright sunlight. The front suspension is not adjustable. (rear allows for damping and preload adjustments) While I personally like it, the gear driven cams and V4 configuration make the engine sound strange, and the exhaust sounds almost nothing like a motorcycle. The oil filer is on the rear of the engine block. This isn't so bad. However, it's also right above the center stand, and there's really no good way to get it off without making a mess on the stand and / or the lower side cowls. Tire life can be short depending on road conditions, type of riding, etc.. I got 10,000 miles from my last set, the set before I got 8,000 from. Other ST owners have reported as many as 12,000+ miles and as little as 4,000. The bike has been in production since 2003 with no real major modifications. This is good and speaks to the bike's reliability, but it's bad when you compare the ST13 to new bikes on the market today. No factory cruise, heated grips are an optional add on, no factory radio options, and no heated seat option either. No stability control either. Linked brakes. I guess I haven't been riding long enough to hate them, but a lot of people really hate Honda's linked braking system. Basically, when moving, if you apply the front brake, the system will also automatically apply a reduced braking pressure to the rear wheel. The pedal activates the middle pistons in all three calipers, with a reduced pressure delay valve for the front to minimize front-end brake dive. It sounds like it could do bad things at slow speed when you have the front wheel turned, but I drag the rear brake all the time in slow speed, bars turned to full lock, parking lot activities and have never once had any problems.
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Jul 15, 2011 09:29
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Well, that Concours I mentioned earlier isn't an ABS/KTRC model. I figure if I'm going to get a new bike I want it to have ABS as a safety feature... even though I've never had a bike with it before. By coincidence the dealer says he has a customer that has a 2010 ABS model he will probably sell. If I buy a Concours I really want a 2010. It has all the improvements on the bike and is a really nice blue color that year.
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Jul 16, 2011 15:12
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slidebite posted:If I buy a Concours I really want a 2010. It has all the improvements on the bike and is a really nice blue color that year. Get the 10, if you're going into debt for it already you may as well get the newest since they changed quite a bit that year. A friend of mine has one, it's a great bike.
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Jul 18, 2011 04:26
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