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Sweet, sweet snakemoney. I'm happy two favorite races got to the finals, good jobs you guys!
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Jun 11, 2015 05:29
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Jazzimus Prime posted:It looks like there's some rebalancing to be done, such as ungimping the big fighters on points, making warhammers more pricey and mauls cheaper, giving yetis a little more willpower, and maybe doing something to make snakebites a little less overpowered. I'd recommend switching maces to using hammer skill, so that there's a smashy weapon smaller races can use, but is weaker than warhammers, while still requiring the same skill, so that they can eventually upgrade. Probably drop its price a bit, too. All big dudes need more willpower, it's just the Yetis that are the most obvious example. I also insist on undoing the big guy size reduction from one of the previous rounds. Bring Yetis back to size 300 instead of 270, and similar size changes for Trolls, and maybe even Minotaurs. Biting doesn't really need a nerf. It's very easy to negate, adds a lot of flavor to fights, and winning here doesn't prove it's overpowered, merely that it's a viable build in the right circumstances. The easiest (and IMHO best) way to balance it is to bring down snakemen points to human/dwarf/elf/goblin level. I'm actually primarily asking for this point nerf because of Tin Can. Were it not for Silverminnow's brilliant gambit, I can guarantee she'd have won the tournament without needing a single upgrade from her build for that match. (I tested it)
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Jun 11, 2015 11:15
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my dad posted:I'm actually primarily asking for this point nerf because of Tin Can. Were it not for Silverminnow's brilliant gambit, I can guarantee she'd have won the tournament without needing a single upgrade from her build for that match. (I tested it) Remind me to post this fight. Your dude the round he lost vs flossy, and then against Paranoid.
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Jun 11, 2015 11:18
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Well, my betting instincts did not lead me to riches. Great fun watching the semis and the finals, though.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:11
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Maarak posted:Hell yeah, now I can test Bob the Blocker. Can he block it, yes he can! Two-shielder? I guess I won't need to do that myself, then. Go snakeman, for some form of offense.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:40
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My development server has crapped out (don't worry, everything is backed up), so we'll have to wait another week or two for the replacement to arrive and get set up.
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Jun 19, 2015 00:49
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Well let's just have a quick look here...pre:$ hostname fuckrogers.local
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Jun 19, 2015 03:05
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Spermy Smurf posted:Remind me to post this fight. Your dude the round he lost vs flossy, and then against Paranoid. It'd be cool to have an all-champions melee too.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:02
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That was a badass final match, slight balance issues aside.Jazzimus Prime posted:It looks like there's some rebalancing to be done, such as ungimping the big fighters on points, making warhammers more pricey and mauls cheaper, giving yetis a little more willpower, and maybe doing something to make snakebites a little less overpowered. Let me know if I can add anything to the OP, Jazzimus. I'm in the middle of bar prep but come August I can help out some, maybe even run a small tourney. Or at least participate.
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Jun 19, 2015 08:25
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Vox Nihili posted:That was a badass final match, slight balance issues aside. Welcome back!  As always, you have permanent full admin privileges on the site, since this whole thing was your idea. And you're always welcome to run your own thing here, but by all means, your career comes first. Be a part of this when you can, but take care of yourself and your own when you must.The OP is fine for now, I think. Unless anyone else thinks it should be updated with something?
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Jun 19, 2015 09:08
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Vox lives! We're still trying to move to a new thread, aren't we? It might be better to save the big OP for that. Maybe there could be a link to the start of the most recent touney at the top so newcomers can get to the current action?
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Jun 19, 2015 18:45
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Jazzimus Prime posted:The OP is fine for now, I think. Unless anyone else thinks it should be updated with something? A giant ASCII picture of a snakeman biting a Yeti's Left Third Toe. The Yeti is cowering. It menaces with spikes of Dwarf Bone.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:46
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Jazzimus Prime posted:The OP is fine for now, I think. Unless anyone else thinks it should be updated with something? I think the rules on armor layering and prices are a bit out of date, and that should just be a fairly quick copypaste to fix.
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Jun 19, 2015 20:57
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Tunicate posted:I think the rules on armor layering and prices are a bit out of date, and that should just be a fairly quick copypaste to fix. Do you know where the current rules/prices are posted? I'd be happy to paste new values in. quote:Maybe there could be a link to the start of the most recent touney at the top so newcomers can get to the current action? I'll add this. Edit: Added the link and a short disclaimer to the top of the OP. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 20, 2015 |
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Jun 20, 2015 03:08
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Also, if anyone recalls the winner of the third tournament (fighter's name and poster's name), let me know and I can add it to the OP. At the very least, it will be convenient to add all that to the next OP when the time comes, so each of the winners can be properly recognized. Edit: OK, I think I have it figured out. Added them to the OP. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 05:32
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It was me
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Jun 21, 2015 17:01
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Bad Munki posted:It was me Can confirm. Munki technically did win a tournament. And he actually helped on the way to victory.
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Jun 21, 2015 22:15
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OP has been updated to recognize Bad Munki's unique achievements.
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Jun 23, 2015 06:33
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Vox Nihili posted:Do you know where the current rules/prices are posted? I'd be happy to paste new values in. quote:Weapons
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Jun 23, 2015 06:43
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Tunicate has an accurate list of the changes to the raw files. Out of the box, the default raws for DF2014 only allow one cap or helm on a fighter's head, and I haven't figured out how to modify that. So it's technically not a raw change, but it is a rule change. The only similar out-of-the-box change I can think of is that Werewolves were no longer a species out-of-the-box with the lycanthropy changes, but I've modded Arena Werewolves back in. As for the current prices, those are set by league now, and we have an "official" league and a couple of "unofficial" leagues for testing. I think we'll probably do one more test before returning to the official league. Also, I have a new development server almost all set up (still need to install Git and a few other things on it), so it shouldn't be long now before the next one. Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 10:22
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Here are the early changes I've put in place for the next tournament: - Points assigned by race have been further normalized (gremlins now only get twice as many as yetis), as follows: pre:Race Points
To Start Per Victory
Gremlin 2400 1600
Dark Gnome 2250 1500
Kobold 2100 1400
Strangler 1875 1250
Serpent Man 1800 1200
Soldier Ant Woman 1950 1300
Dwarf 1800 1200
Elf 1800 1200
Goblin 1800 1200
Human 1800 1200
Molemarian 1350 900
Werewolf 1575 1050
Tigerman 1425 950
Minotaur 1350 900
Troll 1275 850
Yeti 1200 800
- Yetis now have strength+, toughness+, willpower++, agility-, endurance- --- Another change I'm considering is to narrow the attribute ranges. Currently, attributes can have a wide range of values, like so: pre:Suffix Range Median --- 0-500 300 -- 0-1100 750 - 150-1500 900 none 200-2000 1000 + 450-2250 1250 ++ 700-2500 1500 +++ 1250-5000 2000 max 5000-5000 5000 Any thoughts or other suggestions before we start the next test tournament are welcome. Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 12:44
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I'd like to repeat my suggestion to make maces slightly cheaper and have them use hammer skill instead of mace skill. There's no reason to use them now because you'd be locked into a weapon strictly inferior to a warhammer, but using a different skill, so upgrading it is not really an option.
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Jul 1, 2015 13:00
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Normalizing the stats looks important, and I'd actually agree with my dad on the clobberin' consolidation.
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Jul 1, 2015 13:43
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Narrower attribute ranges sound like a good idea. No objections to mace reclassification.
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Jul 1, 2015 14:58
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Mace reclassification makes sense, but requires a bit more work on the database side. I had already put buyable flags on items, materials, items by league, and materials by league, but I never considered setting things up to make a skill unbuyable.
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Jul 2, 2015 04:10
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Bah, random stats should be rolled exactly once - at the beginning of the tournament - and an unholy combination of dfhack scripts and raw tweaks are to be used to keep combatant stat gain and loss consistent across all fights.
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Jul 2, 2015 04:16
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Tunicate posted:Bah, random stats should be rolled exactly once - at the beginning of the tournament - and an unholy combination of dfhack scripts and raw tweaks are to be used to keep combatant stat gain and loss consistent across all fights.
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Jul 2, 2015 04:48
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Pickled Tink posted:If we could keep wounds consistent across battles that would make for a hilarious tournament. Semifinals matches everyone bleeds out the moment the fight starts
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Jul 2, 2015 05:29
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Tunicate posted:Bah, random stats should be rolled exactly once - at the beginning of the tournament - and an unholy combination of dfhack scripts and raw tweaks are to be used to keep combatant stat gain and loss consistent across all fights. Hasn't the arena not actually rolled random stats for, like, a whole pile of major versions, now? I thought that was a thing of the ancient past, and there was much rejoicing in the DF Arena thread at the time that went away.
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Jul 2, 2015 14:16
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Bad Munki posted:Hasn't the arena not actually rolled random stats for, like, a whole pile of major versions, now? I thought that was a thing of the ancient past, and there was much rejoicing in the DF Arena thread at the time that went away. There was much rejoicing when we got rid of random sizes, and when DF2010/2012/2014 (who knows which) came along we were talking about the removal of explicitly stated ('He is bound in muscle', etc.) random stats. We never took any steps to remove unstated random stats, because I don't think many of us knew they were there. I definitely agree with removing them (assuming that fixing them for individual gladiators at tournament creation isn't an option), as well as reclassifying maces so there is a weapon progression for bash-type weapons.
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Jul 2, 2015 18:32
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Pickled Tink posted:If we could keep wounds consistent across battles that would make for a hilarious tournament. dfhack dudes just said they're almost able to control the wounds system.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:53
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Tunicate posted:Bah, random stats should be rolled exactly once - at the beginning of the tournament - and an unholy combination of dfhack scripts and raw tweaks are to be used to keep combatant stat gain and loss consistent across all fights. quote:If we could keep wounds consistent across battles that would make for a hilarious tournament. This could be done if you don't mind a one-shot "tournament" that is played through entirely in one sitting. Basically, one could design a series of initially separate but effectively linked rings in arena mode, each with the usual 2 competitors (or 1 competitor and another waiting just outside to enter). All of the first rounds could take place simultaneously (though this isn't strictly necessary). Winners would then be brought to the adjoining arena(s) to fight with remaining survivors in accordance with a preconceived bracket. Advancing the participants to the next ring would require either using certain arena tools (dfhack?) or more likely taking control of one of the characters to make them climb over walls to bring them into line of sight before relinquishing control. It would be tedious and incredibly sensitive to user error, but dammit, your fighter would carry his scars, attributes, injuries, and his ~wavy, chestnut brown hair~ from the beginning to the end. It also might be doable in a single afternoon, which is a plus.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:46
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If you guys make me do 'entire afternoon don't close the game or you have to start over completely' tournaments, then you all can go play with a bag of dicks in traffic.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:02
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Vox Nihili posted:This could be done if you don't mind a one-shot "tournament" that is played through entirely in one sitting. Basically, one could design a series of initially separate but effectively linked rings in arena mode, each with the usual 2 competitors (or 1 competitor and another waiting just outside to enter). All of the first rounds could take place simultaneously (though this isn't strictly necessary). Winners would then be brought to the adjoining arena(s) to fight with remaining survivors in accordance with a preconceived bracket. Advancing the participants to the next ring would require either using certain arena tools (dfhack?) or more likely taking control of one of the characters to make them climb over walls to bring them into line of sight before relinquishing control. I think you'd have to have a little time between each round where you just run the game clock but don't let the fighters see each other so they can heal up as best as possible (or possibly die?) because otherwise, you'd have one fighter who finished his fight quick hanging out healing while two yetis took turns passing out at each other for six months, and then rushing straight off to the next fight once one of them yawns himself to death. Still, I really really like the idea. Lose an arm early on? BUMMER!
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Jul 6, 2015 15:20
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Vox Nihili posted:This could be done if you don't mind a one-shot "tournament" that is played through entirely in one sitting. Basically, one could design a series of initially separate but effectively linked rings in arena mode, each with the usual 2 competitors (or 1 competitor and another waiting just outside to enter). All of the first rounds could take place simultaneously (though this isn't strictly necessary). Winners would then be brought to the adjoining arena(s) to fight with remaining survivors in accordance with a preconceived bracket. Advancing the participants to the next ring would require either using certain arena tools (dfhack?) or more likely taking control of one of the characters to make them climb over walls to bring them into line of sight before relinquishing control. It'd be a single run thing and an absolute bitch to keep track of, but could be done. Give me a few weeks and I should have the time to run it. VV Feature, not bug. Bene Elim fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 17:48
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Bene Elim posted:Why even complicate it this much? Build a 'bracket' shaped arena. Position fighters and go. It should work that they always attack the closest enemy, so the bracket *should* eventually resolve to a final in the centre. The victor from a fast fight could easily spill over into an ongoing fight, making the funnel-arena really more of battle royale. If you're going to keep it as 1v1 fights, you need some way to force separation during each stage. Does dfhack work in the arena? If so, it'd be a cinch to modify the map during play.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:54
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Bad Munki posted:The victor from a fast fight could easily spill over into an ongoing fight, making the funnel-arena really more of battle royale. If you're going to keep it as 1v1 fights, you need some way to force separation during each stage.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:05
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Bad Munki posted:I think you'd have to have a little time between each round where you just run the game clock but don't let the fighters see each other so they can heal up as best as possible (or possibly die?) because otherwise, you'd have one fighter who finished his fight quick hanging out healing while two yetis took turns passing out at each other for six months, and then rushing straight off to the next fight once one of them yawns himself to death. With "breaks" between matches you can also force them to do things like pick up their weapon with their remaining arm or even go grab new ammunition. Healing would take forever, though. They'd get over the exhaustion eventually, but I think they'd probably lose more blood rather than start to heal up (unless you leave it running for twenty minutes or something). It might make super-healing attributes worthwhile, though.
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Jul 7, 2015 03:48
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I haven't forgotten this, I've just been really busy lately and am just now getting all the changes finished and tested. Among the changes on the website side of things for this tournament: - Site now allows administrators to enable/disable skills, either globally or by league (complete and tested, required for Maces to use Hammer skill) - Site will now store fighter build history across rounds (complete, currently testing). I'll eventually add a page that lets you look up build history, but that feature probably won't make it in this time. - Site will assign fighters points as soon as they join a tournament (not completed yet) I'm hoping we can kick off another test tournament in about a week.
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Jul 27, 2015 14:38
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I will be done by then so I am good to go.
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Jul 28, 2015 00:24
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