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benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter
A joke from a grower that idiotsavant will get:

"You see all those stickers on cars that say 26.2? I always thought that was bragging about their favorite brix."

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benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter
All joking aside about Lodi, I had some amazing wines while I was out there, and was particularly impressed by the various whites and rosés that were made in a Southern French/Italian style. For instance, and not to plug my site, but Acquiesce makes white Rhône-style wines that are fantastic. Granted, the plots of old vine Zin are paying the rent, but they're ripping out some of those vines to grow more delicate grapes. The guy from Bokisch has 20 acres of Dornfelder and has a buyer for all of it. Yes, Lodi is still supplying mass juice for generic California wine, but there is some serious appreciation of fine wine in the area and they have the cash to make it happen. Also, they have the crazy benefit of long family dynasties that have been growing wine grapes nonstop since just after the Civil War. Their location near major rail lines meant that they could ship raw grapes east during Prohibition (since it was legal to make certain quantities of wine for home use). Tons and tons of Lodi grapes hit the Italian and German immigrant communities in Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, etc.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

idiotsavant posted:

If you want Pinot that tastes like Pinot, $10 won't get you far, especially not from the States.

I agree completely. If you want to spend $10 on a bottle of wine that won't taste like crap and might actually be good, go for pretty much anything from Spain. Red, white, pink, sparkling... You'll get something that is drinkable, enjoyable, and will match well with a broad range of foods. Decent Pinot Noir will set you back a bit more regardless of the region.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

Overwined posted:

Spain is still a go-to for European value, although I would add the South of France to that. Although you may have to bump that up to $15.

I don't talk about this a lot, but if you know your wine France is almost always the best bang for your buck. You'll find retailers who are trying to make a fortune on the high-end stuff but are seriously underpricing treasures like Cru Beaujolais and Crémant de Bourgogne, or even oddities like Crémant de Limoux. Not to mention the spectacular Alsatian whites in the east that look like German wines (but aren't Riesling).

Question for the wine fans here who know their French wines:

I've got a bottle of Banyuls waiting to be sampled, from M. Chapoutier. I've had several bottles of Banyuls in the past at tastings, but really want to find some way to make this one shine. Right now I'm leaning towards bleu cheese and dried figs. Others have said that it is the only wine they pair with chocolate. Curious to hear what you folks think.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

Loud Mouse posted:

It's hard to do wine on a budget, and eventually I'll save up for a really nice bottle, but for now I'll keep learning what I can with the cheaper stuff.

Try to go to as many free or inexpensive tastings as you can. A truly great wine can smell like horse manure, cat's pee, or tobacco (and that's not a bad thing, but a scent of wet cardboard is a big problem). Don't save up for a bottle until you find out what you like, and also know that when you're shelling out the extra dollars you might have to wait a while (and store it properly) before you can enjoy the wine as it is meant to be consumed. If the idea of a white wine that smells like wet rocks and gasoline turns you off, don't buy a $50 German Riesling. Keep tasting and you'll start to dial in your preferences and what clicks with your palate. There are plenty of $10-20 satisfactory table wines out there that are worth trying. Check out my friend Jon's wine blog, where he specializes in wines under $20.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter

Insane Totoro posted:

I can get that in PA in theory.... would have to do a special order though!

I guess what I'm asking is in the LA area, would there be a particularly worthwhile winery to stop at to get a Madeira that I literally couldn't get on the east coast?

My friend manages a cool wine shop in LA. The Wine Country is in Signal Hill, and Samantha is a Madeira enthusiast. Tell her I sent you.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

Crimson posted:

To be more clear, Madeira only comes from the tiny Portuguese island. I can't even recall if I've ever had a wine from elsewhere that was even trying to emulate their "cooked" wine style. It's singular and unique.

California Madeira is a real thing, though I've never had it before. My advice to the gentleman above was based on the idea that he was looking for true Madeira that he couldn't find out east. If you ask my friend for California Madeira, she'll probably slap you.

Dig back in the history and you'll find that practically any type of wine with any EU-controlled name has probably been made in California at some point. The Golden State used to be really proud of their Tokay, Champagne, Burgundy, etc. The Port wars are still going on.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter
Luke: No, my father didn't fight in the Port Wars. He was a driver on a grape harvester.

Obi-Wan: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should've stayed here and not gotten involved.

Luke: You fought in the Port Wars?

Obi-Wan: Yes. I was once an enólogo, the same as your father.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

Insane Totoro posted:

Okay then let's assume that my quest for a California Madeira is somehow misguided. Is there a good California produced Port that I could find say in Temecula? Or is that a fool's errand too?

One minor obstacle you'll run into is that thanks to the TTB labeling laws and pressure from the EU, you can make a fortified wine in California but you can't call it Port (unless you're grandfathered in). I've had a Port-style wine from Bogle, this cleverly named one from Peltier Station, and a few others. Petite Sirah and Zinfandel work pretty well for that style of wine (though obviously different from the Portuguese versions). But all of those are made a lot further north than Temecula. Your best bet is to look for some good local wine shops who might be able to steer you towards something unique that isn't widely distributed out of the state.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

himajinga posted:

While I'm in here, I thought I should get some advice. I live in Seattle and mostly drink PNW wines since they're tasty, affordable, and my and my girlfriend's parents are both club members at various wineries around the region so we're gifted WA/OR wine fairly frequently. I was in the bay area recently and ate at a fantastic Sardinian restaurant that recommended a Cannonau with our meal and I was blown away. It wasn't expensive, I think retail is like $18, but it just had this sort of dark, tar and funky anise quality that I found really appealing and that I hadn't really tasted before. I've had a couple different Cannonaus since and they all shared this same aspect to varying degrees and I tried a Vacqueyras a week or so ago that had a bit of this flavor profile as well. I seldom drink European wines since I don't really know where to start, but I'd love to start drinking more wine that has flavors like that. Any suggestions beyond Cannonau and Vacqueyras that won't destroy my wallet/have to sit in a cellar for 10 years before they're drinkable?

First off, congrats on finding lesser-known European wines that fit your palate and wallet. With the right knowledge you can be a very happy wine drinker for decades to come. On the white side of things, French wines from Gascony (Gascogne) are crisp, rich, and delicious and much like Bordeaux Blanc but at a fraction of the price. Also check out Alsace, Cru Beaujolais, and the Loire for other French delights that you might not have heard of before. Try a Sancerre with some oysters and discover the most perfect combination on God's green earth. Have fun, and report back with your results!

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter
Been tasting through Crémant d'Alsace this weekend... Awesome bargain bubbles for the summer. Great acidity, nice and dry, and in the $10-20 range throughout the US.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
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I chatter hep patter

Kasumeat posted:

So, anybody tried any exciting wines lately? Here are a few completely surprising ones I've had lately (photos not mine):

This is kind of the slow season for the wine blogger, since a lot of publicists don't like to ship in the heat of summer and there are no big wine holidays nearby. October to January 1 will be insane, and then it will level off for a few weeks before the Valentine's Day push. If anyone has any questions about being a wine blogger and freelance writer for various publications, let me know!

Right now I've got a bottle of Tannat from Virginia that would probably fall in the "surprising" category, but I'm just not in the mood today. However, these three lovely ladies are chilled and ready to go. This is the perfect weather for dry rosé from the south of France.



I've got the following things waiting downstairs to be tasted: a bunch of Alsace, a Riesling, some more Virginia wines, a few random unremarkable California bottles, that Banyuls I mentioned a while back, probably something from Chile, some anisette and amaro from Italy...

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter

Kasumeat posted:

Sure, I'll bite. Is wine writing your sole career? How did you get into it? How do you differentiate yourself from the thousands of other wine bloggers?

Tried doing it as a solo career for a while and that wasn't enough to pay the rent. Oddly I'm at a point now where I could probably do it as a full time job, but not from blogging. The actual paychecks come from various other publications that I write for, which each have their own style guides and viewpoints and editorial directions. But the day job still keeps a roof over my head and feeds the dog.

Since I write about cigars and cocktails and food and other things, I've found great opportunities in those areas. I sort of positioned myself as a guy in flyover country (Memphis) writing about wine from what is essentially an outsider perspective. So if anyone wants an article about wine & BBQ, I'm your guy. But I've been trying to move away from that, not out of shame, but because there are only so many articles you can write about that topic and I'm surprised I've sold so many.

The travel is awesome, and I hate it when I have to turn down trips to Chile or Italy because I'm short on vacation at the day job. Getting to tour a domestic wine region and get wined and dined by the industry is a real treat. I'm always honest about my impressions of wineries and regions, but spending a week getting driven around to taste wine and eat at great restaurants is a nice break from the daily routine (otherwise known as the day job).

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter

himajinga posted:

On the same note, how pissed would a restaurant be if I brought like 3 bottles of wine? Is that a sign I should just host a dinner at my place if I have 3 bottles that I want to drink in 1 sitting?

Like Overwined said, call ahead, each place has its own rules and some restaurants don't allow it at all. You may have to pay a corkage fee on each one. You still need to tip based on the service you're receiving. Etiquette suggests offering a partial glass of the wine to the somm or the chef. I generally tell people that unless it's really rare or really old, it's not worth taking your own to restaurants and is often rude.

A notable exception (legal here in TN, your mileage may vary) is for restaurants that don't sell wine or liquor but are fine with BYOB. Often this means BYOGAC (bring your own glassware and corkscrew). Or a brand new restaurant that does not have its liquor license will let you bring your own without a corkage fee for the first couple of weeks. My favorite way to do this is knowing the chef and working out a deal where you leave a glass or two leftover in each bottle for staff training (and refreshment) after the place closes. I've done this with some industry meals where we'd go through a mixed case and barely make a dent in each bottle. This method is favored by those who are not paying for the wine they are sampling. (We left 35 partial bottles at a Thai restaurant in Lodi a few months ago.)

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter
I think this may be my new favorite tasting note. A writer from New York Magazine decided to try a red wine bath. She got bored, curious, and decided to taste her "bathwater":

quote:

"... the cupped handful that I drank tasted nothing like wine and everything like old socks, crushed-up malaria medicine, and grape Dimetapp"

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/10/i-tried-vinotherapy-aka-bathing-in-red-wine.html

Not to be rude, but I think this says more about her terroir than anything else.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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Jezebel had the best headline regarding the vinotherapy thing (is it even a trend?):

"Rich People Are Ruining Red Wine By Putting Their Buttholes in It"

http://jezebel.com/rich-people-are-ruining-red-wine-by-putting-their-butth-1648608192

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter

Stitecin posted:

The annual :siren:Thanksgiving wine tips:siren: rush should keep this thread on the first page of GWS for the next week.

Does anyone have any particularly hot tips to offer beyond "buy a lot of Beaujolais"?

Skip the Nouveau, go with Cru. The price isn't that different and you'll have a much better experience. I skipped the Bojo Novo this year.

I've got an article coming out in the next day or two about "Best First Time Wines for Thanksgiving", about how a lot of times you're serving wine to family members who either never or rarely drink wine, and it's generally not a time when you're breaking out the notebook and taking detailed tasting notes. Maybe it's a 16 year old cousin who's allowed to have a sip or the Great Aunt who decides to be adventurous but who you don't want to get drunk. Go mild, go lower alcohol, don't break out the special bottles unless you're around like minded folks and want to talk about and analyze the wine, etc.

My hands down favorite for that first time wine drinker is Vinho Verde, specifically the 9% alcohol, $9, light and slightly fizzy wine. (Lots of variety in the region in terms of reds and rosés and whatnot, but not a lot of that makes it to the US.) It's a little sweet but fun, and it's not going to scare anyone off. They like that, move up to the cheap Cava you've brought along, then bring in the mild Riesling. I'll post the link when it goes live.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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door Door door posted:

I know next to nothing about wine. I found a 2010 gnarly head zinfandel in the closet. Have the four years made it a better wine? Will it still be drinkable?

Totally fine to drink. It probably hasn't improved much but is meant as a bargain California red wine to "drink now". Order a pizza and crack it open.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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door Door door posted:

Yeah I remember it being cheap, I just didn't know if aging affects cheap wines positively/negatively/at all. Thanks.

Depends a lot on the wine. There are some great bargains that can improve with time if you know what you're buying and have the right storage environment. There are others that fall apart a year or two after release. Your mileage may vary. Cheers!

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter
My holiday gatherings have been delayed due to scheduling conflicts, but among the dozen bottles I'll open Sunday are these three beauties from Austria.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter
Speaking of old Burgundy, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but this was one of the best birthday presents I ever received. Younger wine drinkers: if you've never had a wine from your birth year start looking NOW. It gets more difficult over time and I think it's an experience every wine lover should have at least once in his or her life. There was probably a good year for something somewhere whenever you were born .

I opened this in 2011 myself with a waiter's corkscrew. No real problems and the cork was in great shape. Sediment wasn't a major problem and it was a real delight after it rested for 15-20 minutes.

I've never used port tongs and don't really want to buy a set--has anyone ever used this method with a different tool or piece of common scrap metal? I'm thinking of trying something like a coat hanger this weekend as an experiment on an empty bottle for a fun McGyver/DIY project. I've done the trick with a string and nail polish remover to make tumblers but couldn't get an even cut.

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benito
Sep 28, 2004

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himajinga posted:

I have an alert on K&L for 1982 wines for this specific reason but it was such a good year for most varietals that are long-lived that the prices are already astronomical :( Well, too expensive to justify right now at least.

I didn't think it was ever going to happen for me--there are no retail establishments here in Memphis that sell really old vintages, and there aren't a lot of collectors around here (plus, no wine auction scene, something that in general doesn't interest me). On top of that, until recently you couldn't have wine shipped here legally.

The guy who gave me the bottle is a dear friend of the family (he and my father grew up together as close friends) who works in distribution and taught me a lot about the subject in my 20s. At some point during a tasting I mentioned that it would be interesting to try a wine from my birth year, and I never brought it up to him again. Ten years later he invited my family over for a dinner party and surprised me with it after the main course. My name is Ben, but for some reason he's always called me Bentley. "Bentley, I finally found your birth wine!" I'm not sure how he got it but I certainly appreciated it.

I've kept the bottle and cork. If I'm still alive in 2076 I'm going to fill it with cheap plonk and sell it to some idiot. Screw it, you can do whatever you want when you're 100 years old. ;)

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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himajinga posted:

Haha I know I'd probably love it, but I just have this weird subconscious fear that somehow it wouldn't be that great and I'd be really disappointed. My partner and I were born the same year so maybe I can justify spending the money knowing it's a bottle for her birth year too. She finished her masters program and finally got a job in her field last month so we're back to 2 incomes after almost 3 years, so maybe I'll start squirreling some money away now to splurge and get her a birth year bottle for her birthday in July as sort of a halfway Homer gift (she's who got me into wine, so she'd be thrilled too I imagine).

I'll be honest, my first sip after pouring was not great, but I was so excited about just getting the opportunity that I didn't care. When it finally opened up it was fantastic, but not the best wine I've ever had. And it was kind of dead after an hour. Still a cherished memory and I'm so glad I got to try it.

Right now my wine goal is to hit 200 different grapes. I'm kind of stuck at 194, especially since I deal with a lot of free samples and have no real drive to go out and pay for wine when there are twenty bottles at home waiting for notes. And I pretty much exhausted the obscure varieties available in the Memphis market years ago. There was a time when I'd try five new grapes on a single weekend, and now it's once every couple of months.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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I chatter hep patter
Tip with the Port: if you're not serving a large group, spend whatever you were going to pay on a half bottle. The $30 half bottle is going to be better and you'll finish it before it loses its charm as opposed to the $30 750mL bottle.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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ShadowCatboy posted:

I just tried a riesling (Pacific Rim 2011), but it had none of the riesling characteristics I'd expect. The aroma had a leathery and earthy quality, and the fruity notes of apple, pear, and apricot I was looking for weren't present at all. It wasn't like, offensively bad or anything. But it was certainly disappointing. Any idea what could've happened? Would it be possible to return the bottle?

I don't know your level of wine knowledge, so apologies if this is stating the obvious. Pacific Rim releases various styles from sweet to dry. The grape has a lot of expressions and not all Riesling is fruity and sweet. I tend to prefer it when it's more mineral, on the dry side. Which one did you buy?

http://rieslingrules.com/wines/

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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swansong posted:

One of our larger monthly expenses is booze, and I want to surprise her the day I quit working with no less than 300 bottles of wine. I'd keep these in a basement that based on what I've read here sounds like it'd be fine for longer-term storage.

How long were you planning on keeping them? There's plenty of great bargains out there in the $10-20 range but they're meant to be consumed on release. That's a pretty big investment with a big risk of oxidation (or just becoming flat and boring) over time in less-than-perfect conditions. You can kind of test this by buying five bottles of the kind of thing you like, stick them in the basement for a few years until you're ready to quit the job. Try them out and see if you like how they've survived in that environment. Or hunt around for those kind of bottles that you see in the bargain bin--bottles that were $15 on release but five years later have a sticker on them for $5. If you like that style, you're in luck!

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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himajinga posted:

Speaking of vibration and wine, is the "Mollydooker Shake" a troll?

Also, my dad just upends bottles into his decanter and walks away like David Caruso as they glug glug glug until empty, is there any downside to this method on stuff that isn't like 30 year old bordeaux or is it similar to putting it through a Vinturi?

And then there's the blender method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubgiBZpyxrA

Gadgets and blenders do a good job of getting a lot of oxygen into a bottle of wine pretty quickly, but my complaint has always been that it takes you directly to the finish line and doesn't let you enjoy the journey along the way. Especially with older wines (where sediment would be a nasty issue), it's hard to know in advance how much breathing is going to be perfect. It might be just right at two hours in a standard decanter or it might die after 45 minutes, and once it's gotten too much air there's no going back. I always enjoy taking a sip now and then to see when it hits its Goldilocks zone.

The bigger issue with decanting or Vinturi-processing an entire bottle is that you really want to consume that wine pretty soon after. If you want leftovers the next day, then you don't want to oxygenate the entire bottle at once. Wine leftovers is a whole other topic...

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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himajinga posted:

I had kind of a rollercoaster of a wine experience the other night that kinda changed the way I think about air and wine.

Speaking of air and wine, has anyone else ever done the evaporation trick to chill a bottle of wine? Wrap it in wet newspapers and drive around for a while holding it out the window? Great way to get arrested but it works en route to a picnic if you forgot to keep the bottle at cellar temp.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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Stringent posted:

My go to Italian restaurant near work serves Nero d'Avola as their house red, and I've been grabbing bottles of it whenever I see it. I really enjoy the juicy, spicy, affordable, easy drinkability of it.

Are there some other wines from Sicily I should be checking out?

Inzolia and Grillo are two good Sicilian whites. A crazy thing to think about is that in some years, the island of Sicily pumps out more wine than the entire continent of Australia.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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Funny Port story...

In high school, I was big into cooking and my parents were cool with me cooking with wine. I'd usually take a sip to gauge sweetness/acidity/etc. and how it would impact the dish. I also watched a lot of cooking shows including the Frugal Gourmet, who wrote an entire cookbook about using wine as an ingredient. He raved about a simple dessert: get the kind of powdered vanilla pudding mix that you are supposed to cook. The trick was to use Port instead of milk, and he claimed it was one of his favorite and easiest recipes.

I got the little box of Jell-O Vanilla Cook & Serve, which is thickened with hot milk, powdered eggs, and careful stirring so you don't burn it--the instant variety just uses gelatin and cold milk. The latter is easier and always has the same result, while the former tastes better as long as you don't burn it. I actually had good experience with the cook & serve version as well as making custards from scratch, making sauces, etc., so I was confident.

Doing it with Port resulted in what was, by far, one of the worst things I've ever had the disgrace to place in front of human beings to eat. It gelled properly and I served it chilled, but the result was a monster composed of equal parts cough syrup and vanilla-scented sunscreen. It also had the visual appearance of raw calf's liver.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

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Ola posted:

Went to a great wine bar in Paris this summer which I can warmly recommend to anyone interested in wine. It's called Ô Chateau and is at 68 rue Jean-Jacques Rousseau, around 5 minutes walk from the Châtelet - Les Halles metro/RER stop. They do wine tastings, dinner, snacks and just drinking. The main attraction is a huge Enomatic machine with tons of bottles available by the glass.

I got to e-mail back and forth with founder Olivier Magny when he sent me a copy of his book Into Wine for review. Super nice guy.

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benito
Sep 28, 2004

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Kasumeat posted:

Mollydooker Shiraz. Even their second wine The Boxer often punches in at 16% or higher and is the quintessential Parker wine.

Don't forget the Mollydooker shake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xTw6nOj80k

I'm kind of experiencing wine burnout at the moment and am skipping the holiday sample madness. I think there's a Crémant d'Alsace somewhere in the house... Going to see if the local Chinese joint minds if I bring it in. Happy Thanksgiving, all.

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