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Yea, with things like briskets and pork bellies and jowls and all that jazz, it may be worth a call to them before you go. Since no one would buy anything but a whole one, (who would buy a single pound of belly?) they'll only carry what they know they can move. If they know they can't reasonably move a whole, $30 brisket on the regular, they just wont have it. I've got my Nth pancetta cruising along nicely in my fridge now. Normally I use some recipe that I had found on the internet, but because I am a techno-genius, I accidentally deleted all my bookmarks and can't find that one again. So, now I'm rollin with Ruhlman, though I added a tiny touch of some rosemary and a little more garlic than he recommends. For me: garlic + rosemary + fat = heaven.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:16
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Scott Bakula posted:The salt didn't overpower it, it was more that the chilli and fennel flavour just wasn't there. I used a tablespoon of fennel seeds bashed up a bit using a pestle and mortar  PLAYING WITH FIRE ADVICE A longer cure time with less salt is probably the only way to go. Also, grinding your spices smaller will help them 'get into the meat' a little easier. The thing you are fighting here is that salt readily dissolves into molecular scale and quickly penetrates the meat via osmosis. Spices do not. They just break into really tiny chunks after a while in the brine and attempt to barge their way in. If you reduce the amount of salt, but give it a longer cure time, you may be able to stave off over-salting your meat by allowing its saline content to come to equilibrium slower and simply giving the smaller-ground spices a chance to penetrate further. But remember, there are a lot of other variables at work that may cause this to not work. E.g. not curing fast enough to stave off bacteria growth. Another idea that would definitely take a gentle hand would be to inject small amounts of highly spiced brine directly into the meat in a ton of teeny-tiny doses. The saline content of that would be the same as the brine outside, so it wouldn't over-salt, but this would ensure that some of the spice would have nowhere to run. But, you'd have to make sure you did a literal poo poo-tonne of miniature injections. Like every square centimeter. Any less frequent with bigger injections would just lead to an uneven, potentially flavor-bombed piece of meat.
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Apr 5, 2013 20:39
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Just took my pancetta down. Hung in the closet for roughly 5 weeks. I stopped weighing them a few batches ago, but I would wager this is roughly 30% weight loss. I also found that draping a damp paper towel over the meat daily for the first week or two really evens out the drying process. No outer case hardening at all this time around. (except described below) A little meatier than normal, but if that's the worst thing to happen to me this week, I'll be happy. Time for some carbonara! I get mine here in Chicago from Peoria Packing usually for about $1.79/lb for the thing; fresh and skin on. They've got every part of a cow/pig/chicken/turkey/fish that you could ever want. And most of the other parts that you wouldn't want. And its all dirt cheap. The place is phenomenal if you know what you're doing. A question for anyone else with experience with pancetta rolls: Has anyone had any good ideas/methods/techniques to reduce the amount of loss on the butt ends of the roll? I always lose about 1" on both ends because they turn rock hard. I might try painting on some food-grade wax next time so that the roll can't dry axially, but I have no idea how that'll turn out.
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Apr 17, 2013 17:36
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Just made my bacon for the next few months, as well as a few belated holiday gifts for some friends. I use Ruhlman as a basic recipe, but usually add some stuff just for fun. Of the 18~lbs that I did, about 50% was regular, 25% was garlic rosemary, and 25% was whiskey molasses. I typically do a 2.5-3hr simple smoke with the heat ramping up as it progresses. Start with just a charcoal or two, build up to ending with a handful in a hot smoker. Turned out as lovely as ever.  This first photo is less than half of my total compliment  
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Jan 25, 2014 11:03
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I can't vouch for online dealers, though I am sure they are out there. But even the most rural of towns has access to bellies. You just may have to do some investigative work and call delis to see where they get their bacon, then call their supplier. Call as many as you can asking where you can get a full belly. Eventually, you will probably just find a distributor/butcher that you can buy from. A full belly is the entire underside of one half of the pig; there are two belly cuts per pig. It should weigh anywhere from 8-12lbs, depending on the size of the pig, fat/lean content, and whether or not the skin is still attached. I prefer the skin still on, as it makes the belly a lot cheaper (since they didn't have to do the work) and the skin can be put to use in various things from chicharones to just simply rendering the fat out of it. However, many places don't sell the bellies as full, and will come in halves. There is the front and the back half of the belly. The front half is much thinner, and much more uniformly rectangular shaped. It is easier to cure evenly, cook/smoke evenly, and slice into friendly little strips, but it is a little less flavorful. In my earlier photo, it was the stuff in the middle of the cutting board. The back half is a big, honkin piece of meat that goes from a thin, neat rectangle to totally oblong shape at the end. It has much more meat, much more fat, more flavor, but is consequently harder to ensure even cure, even cook, and even slices. It is the stuff on the near, right side of my cutting board photo. It also has a tendancy to contract and curl irregularly when cooking/smoking. If you can inspect the belly before purchase, make sure it has a good fat/lean composition; 50:50 is ideal. Don't be fooled into thinking more meat = better value, as too much meat per slice will end up tasting a bit hammy and be a bit on the tough side. And definitely don't get a leaner belly because of low-fat 'health reasons'. You are making bacon, if you want healthy eating tips, eat the full stuff, just eat less of it. Also, for your first time, try and get bellies that are about 1.5 inches thick and avoid the pressure they may try to give you to buy the super primo 3" thick belly. That stuff is for fancy, braising meals, not bacon. It's also gonna cost about 4x more. Bacon making will destroy the texture of any fancy belly and turn it into "Bacon texture" and all that extra money you spent won't be noticeable. Also having a thinner belly to start with means that you will have more control and knowledge about the salt migration into your meat. Recipes rarely say how thick of a cut to use, but assume for bacon 1.5". If you have a thicker piece, you will not only have to cure it longer, but you will then have to back some of the salt out again, or the outer areas of the belly will be far too salty. Think of the salt as heat entering the meat: the heat moves in at a constant rate determined by the temperature outside. The salt moves in at a constant rate determined by the salinity of the solution outside. If you have a thick cut, by the time inside is up to temp/salt content, the outside is toast/pure salt. Fortunately, unlike cooking, you can get the salt back out. Just soak it in water for an hour or so, then let the belly rest in your fridge for a day. That will help the cut come to equilibrium. As for you actual question, you absolutely can oven cook it. Just know that it won't really be bacon; it will be cured pork belly. The smoke flavor is a huge amount of what we perceive to be bacon. But don't despair, as you can just dump in a few sloshes of liquid smoke to your cure. How much or how little is up to you, but for a full belly, I would probably recommend something in the tablespoon range. I have done the liquid smoke method for my second time I ever made bacon (after the first time of just using the oven and being a little disappointed with the oven style) and it turned out pretty darn good. It still won't be idea, but it'll help a bunch.
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Jan 25, 2014 23:57
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Well, I live in Chicago, so I have a huge range of selection available so your options may and probably will vary. I can go to the boutique butchers and get lovingly hand raised belly for something on the order of $15/lb. I can also go to a distributor style butcher shop and pick up factory raised stuff for as low as $1.79/lb. And that is the stuff I make bacon out of. (as well as pancetta and other heavily cured and smoked belly products) I have used better quality stuff a number of times, and when it all comes down to it, I can't tell the difference flavor/texture-wise. Not only that, but for obvious reasons, it is probably better to test the waters with a cheaper cut and go from there. All in all, I would say expect $20-25 per full belly on the economical side of it, and upwards of $100-150 if your ethics won't let you buy factory hog. Even with the cheapest cut, it will blow your mind how good it is. Virtually all bacon you have ever had is pressure cured and chemically smoked, making what is normally a 7-10 day process into a 7-10 minute process. The difference will astound you.
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Jan 26, 2014 04:23
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Sid Vicious posted:an empty challenge You're right, but for the wrong reasons. Your vote is just simply cast; deaf ears. Granted, I don't spend too much time here in GWS, as I find it to be a little too harsh and insular of a community, but I do know you are missing the spirit of the forum. It is not about fulfilling the minimum requirements of flavor and ease vs. economy, but rather bettering yourself and the lives around you by the dedication to improving a craft. goodness posted:My brother and family jest whenever I bring up making my own bacon and good food Hopefully they jest in good-heartedness, and have a culinarily open mind. Otherwise, you may be fighting an uphill battle that you can never win.
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Jan 27, 2014 04:23
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Hopefully I can show them how amazing the difference is.
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Martello posted:Anybody make rillettes? I've been looking at that From Belly to Bacon blog someone linked in this thread, and they have some really awesome rillettes variations. I need to try at least a basic pork belly recipe (gonna use the one in my Pickles, Pigs & Whiskey cookbook) next time I get some bellies from my local butcher. I've made belly rillettes before, mostly just with trimmings from bellies. I actually prefer duck rillettes, as the meat is just a touch drier, it leads to a more pronounced and pleasing texture. Belly tends to have a slightly greasy/mushy feel rather than unctuous. Although, that may have just been my preparation of them. Though, when I am not feeling up to duck, sometimes I like a slightly more American/goony  preparation of them. Use chicken legs, lightly brined and cooked in a bath of lard (or schmaltz, if you actually can get your hands on any real amount), with about 15-20% of the fat from rendered bacon. Peel and toss in a whole handful of garlic cloves and maybe some herbs and put in a crock pot, put the cover on, but put a toothpick or small piece of aluminum foil under the lid so it doesn't fit snugly. That way the steam can vent. Cook on low for about 6-8 hours, reserve the fat and chicken, toss the other solids, and you will have a perfect confit that you can mash up into rillettes. It has a lovely assertive chickeny-garlicy flavor that goes great with a very bold, equally assertive cheese. A bleu like Roaring Forties comes to mind. Maybe side it with some pickled veggies, some fruit compotes, and a few nuts on top of some seared bread and you've got yourself a pretty world class appetizer.Word to the wise, though: I do not recommend eating the garlics after they have been cooked. They have given their all, use at your own discretion. The cooking fat can be reused a handful of times, though it will get saltier each time you use it. I have also used that recipe with vegetable oil rather than lard. The chicken isn't as good, but you end up with a rockin chicken-garlic liquid oil that you can use for other cooking applications. (pan fry potatoes) If you take nothing else away from this recipe, at least use a crock pot for confit. It is nearly perfect for the job, and you don't have to muck about with trying to keep your oven at 200F for 8 hours.
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Jan 27, 2014 22:02
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Yea, if it got too salty, it's not wasted. It's never wasted. There is a myriad of uses for too-salty bacon: the aforementioned greens and soups, grind it for burgers and chili, or just slice it thin and use it is lardons for various pieces of meat. Especially used in long, slow cooking processes, it will also act to 'brine' the meat. The temp being finicky is a bit odd, though. How did you cook it? Oven or smoker/grill? How uniform was the meat?
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Jan 31, 2014 22:05
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hoshkwon posted:I just cooked it in the often at 200F, but I think one of the big reasons was an uneven distribution of fat and meat and a poor pork belly product. I'm gonna try again with fresh belly from the butcher shop instead of the frozen belly from the Chinese grocery store. True, it may be the meat, but I would hazard a guess at the oven at 200F being the culprit. Even the tippy-top of the line models have a hard time maintaining that low a temperature. In addition, every oven cycles on and off to maintain its temp, and depending on the make, model, and quality, that swing may be as much as 40 degrees in both directions; from as low as 160 then up to 240. The best bakers oven in the world is probably 10 in both directions. Now, when you consider how much little heat is in there as it is, the 'off' cycle can be devastating to maintaining the temp; you're losing like 50% of it. And since air makes a poor conductor (in fact, if air doesn't move, it actually makes a great insulator) it would just take hours upon hours to get the temp you want. What you can try is to use an oven-bag and go for a temp even a modest oven can handle, 250F. However, with the bag, the speed of the cooking will be different, as the increased humidity will put heat to the meat much more efficiently. If you have a probe thermo, you're on the gravy train. If you only have a regular meat thermometer, you may want to check it every 10-15 minutes after the hour. Then finish it for about 10 minutes bagless at 300F just to dry it off on the outside.
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Feb 1, 2014 10:29
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The Alton Brown smokers are awesome. All of them. You can very easily smoke in a grill, you just have to make it work for you and you will have to put more effort in. When I first started smoking, I just used my cheapo grill and it had amazing results. Will you win BBQ awards? Probably not, but you will be very happy. The trick is to just keep the heat very low: use minimal charcoal and set the coals off to one side and your meat away on the other. Using bricks in the grill is also very effective if you turn them into a heat wall; they will block the radiative cooking (at least for a few hours...). Using bricks in the grill is a good skill to learn in general. It's how you make tightly controlled zones in a small charcoal grill. A word of warning with briquettes though: if you are using cheap ones, know they have quite a lot of "glue" and filler in them used to hold them together. This glue can and does include a plethora of things you may or may not want on your food. The filler can and does include anything they may have swept up from the shop floor. They can do this because the idea is that for regular grilling you fully ignite the briquettes and burn off the outer layers before you put the food on. That's why it says right on the bag, 'fully ignite before food application.' More expensive brands only use things like cornstarch to glue them together. Do NOT use brands that include some sort of ignition aid as that is pretty much just the briquettes are soaked in lighter fluid before bagged. Will this stuff kill you? No. Will it give you cancer? What doesn't these days. Will it contribute off-flavors to your product? Most likely. Ultimately, minion method should really only be used with lump/chunk charcoal/wood. If you are using briquettes, just light them outside the grill and let them burn for just a tiny bit to get rid of the bad stuff. Then toss them in.
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Feb 14, 2014 08:05
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goodness posted:I will definitely have to look into doing it on a grill. We have one outside the apartment, but I have actually never used a charcoal grill before. Only ever cooked on gas or electric. Breaky posted:Give yourself 1 try to gently caress it up then you'll probably get it right everytime after. It's not hard to work with. This. People are really unduly afraid of grilling with charcoal. You don't have to be a seasoned woodsman to build a charcoal fire. Unlike that romantic fire you're trying to impress your Valentines date with, this one actually wants to burn. Most foods you would think to grill are actually exceedingly forgiving. And a smoked food like this bacon/salmon curing is the most forgiving of all. In my experience, most grilled foods are messed up because the fire was too low and the cook time was therefore too short. People are too afraid they'll turn their food to a cinder so they overcompensate and make tiny fires. That is exactly what you're looking for here. It takes hours to screw it up with a tiny fire. Hell, even if you forgot about it and the fire went out for an hour, it's still gonna be just fine. Inside of the grill/smoker is a bacterial dead zone. There is tons of heat and the pH is super hosed up for them. Even if it comes down to 'room temp' it's 100% recoverable. (within reason; don't let it sit for hours and hours) Just don't try to grill a chicken until you have a grilling season under your belt. They are nefarious to grill right. *shudder*
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Feb 15, 2014 00:36
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bunnielab posted:I don't agree with this. Natural lump is way too inconsistent to work well with the minion method. If you are worried about the binder or whatever then Kingsford makes a "Competition" grade charcoal that is supposed to mimic lump but be more consistent. I guess I've never had a problem with lump, but I am the type of guy who loves to fiddle with the fire even when it's doing well. (I got a pair of welding gloves and get my hands right in there!  ) Otherwise, I am just warning against cheap briquettes. You've rightly pointed out the high quality ones that I had mentioned are perfectly workable. And analogously there are cheap lump charcoals that are also to be avoided. Though you do bring up a good point that should be fleshed out a little more: soft woods like pine. Soft woods are soft because they contain creosote, or creosote-like-substances. This stuff, in quantities easily attained with the time it takes to smoke food, can poison you and is significantly more carcinogenic than hard wood fires. Like powers of ten worse. Do NOT use soft woods. However, their needles and sapling branches are relatively creosote free and can add nice notes of spruce or rosemary to your food. Just toss them on in the last 20 minutes or so for a new dimension. My brother makes his own charcoal, but his is for blacksmithing. He keeps telling me, "man, you should grill with this!" but keeps forgetting to add, "it burns upwards of 1400F with little to no bellowing"
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Feb 15, 2014 00:54
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Big Beef City posted:I put this up in the 'General Questions' thread. Unless your meat was spoiled going into this process, you are beyond fine. Freezing it will kill virtually all the bacteria on it or parasites in it. The only thing freezing won't kill is spores. As far as the oven, meats are pasteurized after a scant few minutes at 140F. The surface will be sterilized after 1 second at 190F. A salt brine solution will desiccate anything that in defiance to the laws of physics made it through the process. All you're missing is smoke and an acid and you would have the whole hand of food preservers. This sounds very interesting; and as a good Swede, I feel I must try it. It is my project for tomorrow.
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Feb 16, 2014 11:18
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 Reporting in on this. So I did a little reading and a little thinking on how to make this the best I can. I got a nice eye roast and froze it in my deep freeze (a good -25F) for a solid 48 hours. I then thawed it completely, then REfroze it again in the deep freeze. I figure this will most accurately mimic the conditions of a piece of reindeer that is kept outside in a box during the long Scandinavian winter. I also will figure that this will allow ice crystals to grow and regrow in the meat and shred up any toughness that is there. I then S-V the meat at 140F for about 6 hours to attain equilibrium and then brine as prescribed. One final step that isn't included in the before recipes is I smoke the meat for about 30 minutes over the smallest fire I can manage. The result is superb. Superlative. It is tender and juicy and yet still with a pleasant tooth. Though there is incredible room for improvement. Next time I make this (and I will, as I will never buy deli roast beef again) I will slice the roast in half top-to-bottom, as to reduce the penetration depth of the brine; the outer 0.5" of the meat is perfect, the inside is untouched by brine. The aforementioned day-long rest will also help. Next, and most importantly, I think I will reduce the salinity of the brine and more finely grind the spices. That way, I can have the meat in the brine longer than the fairly short 5 hours. Not enough herb and spice made it deeply enough. Like reduce the salt:water by 60%. (granted, I haven't done the math on it, so that number may not be entirely accurate) Finally, the only changes I would make to the flavor is to maybe up the juniper and I think just teeny-tiny-est of grill sear will add just another layer. Other than that, I find this to be an awesome addition to my repertoire and an even greater addition to my culinary heritage.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:46
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Yea, the liquid is A Good Thing; do not dump it out. Doubly so a good thing, actually. First, it acts with the salt already in the bag to created an even brine, rather than the uneven dry cure distribution. Secondly, the less water you have in your final product, the longer shelf life it will have. (if it's in the bag, it's not in the meat.) With bacon, the final water content isn't as critical, as it goes from brine to smoker to fridge/freezer. Things never have a chance to grow. But with dry cured meats (pancetta, guanciale, or any number of sausages) you need that water to come out otherwise it will provide water for bacterial growth. That water that is lost is part of what is called 'water activity', which is essentially the water that is not bound up with molecules or free ions (such as salt ions). If the water is free from this bondage, it is usable by things that need water to grow: fungi and bacteria. If you reduce the amount of active water, there isn't anything for the bugs to drink, (or more accurately, maintain their cellular processes) and they shrivel up and die. Or at least, are unable to reproduce to any number that could possibly harm you. This is precisely what making cured foods and jams/jellies is all about. Since both salt and sugar break down on the molecular level when in aqueous solution, rather than just stay whole but suspended in the liquid, they gobble up all the water so nothing else can use it. But you can use it only because you eat so little of it compared to your body weight. If you ate a lot of it, you would die just like them. Things like smoking, acid-pickling, and fermenting work similarly, but slightly differently. As for the pink salt, you definitely don't need it, but it does have helpful effects and does impart some of the distinctive cured-food flavor and pleasant reddish color. (Though the color is a chemical reaction with hemoglobin, not the pink dye they put in it. The dye is just so you never mistake it as table salt) Regular pink salt (curing salt #1) has sodium nitrite in it which, among other things, kill botulism spores. Long term pink salt (curing salt #2) has sodium nitrate in it as well. Nitrates break down over time and turn into nitrites, giving you an extended protection for things that need to cure for extended times. Yes, both nitrates and nitrites have gotten bad press, some unjustly and some justly; but typically have only caused Bad Things when cooked to extreme high temperatures and then consumed copiously. As with all things, especially cured foods, moderation is key. Eat it to enjoy the flavor, not to derive sustenance and you will never have a problem with nitrate/nitrite. If you eat a pound of bacon every day because you're goonish beyond societal redemption, yes, nitrates are bad for you.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:36
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I like turtles posted:
I forgot to comment on this, but those look incredible. Especially that coppa. Love it when it is nice and fatty like that. Too often does that get trimmed away.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:42
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I usually just use a damp paper towel draped lightly. Works nicely.
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Mar 9, 2014 10:37
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You can use that if you choose, but know that it isn't curing powder. Just as baking powder contains baking soda, you wouldn't substitute the former for the latter. At best it is a brining mix, and at worst, it is a ready-mix flavoring. Though, I would probably still give it a try with something simple and cheap; just to see what you're dealing with. It won't give you bacon, but it could give you a hammy-tasting pork chop. Or hammy-tasting chicken legs. Or hammy-tasting anything, really. Saltpeter and MSG will taste like ham no matter what you put it on. Ham lettuce, anyone? When you salt cure a piece of meat for a week or longer, there are chemical processes that take place that can't be rushed in the home-chef kitchen. Yes, Oscar Meyer can cure a belly in about 2 hours. We can't. One of the most notable changes is that the proteins in the meat and connective tissue begin to denature and unravel and relax. With a pork belly, this is wildly important, because without it, eating the belly would be like eating a shoe. When you cure bacon, you are also in a sense tenderizing it. Though, you could just slice the bacon paper-thin when you are done and it would have the illusion of tenderness (like Oscar Meyer does) but thin bacon is sad bacon. Rushing curing to two or three days, and you would have an unhappy meal. 30 minutes would definitely be a lolwat? situation. That being said... the red flag really is the MSG. I don't buy for a second the whole 'MSG gives cancer/ulcers/headaches' baloney, (I do use MSG in other food) but I do know that they are using it to fool your taste buds into thinking you have a cured product. High intensity salts like MSG have no place in curing/preserving meats. At least, no place in amateur curing. Also, any curing product with an expiration date... ... Though I don't know much about Southeast Asian food, I think their use of the word 'bacon' here may just be a 'closest approximation translation' and is not the cured/smoked pork belly you are envisioning. tl;dr: do not substitute that into a bacon recipe as curing salt. It will do nothing but make your food taste not like what it is supposed to. Use it for something else.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:17
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Pulling it early will be fine. An even better, albeit more work intensive, option would be to pull it early, wait a day, then put it back in for a half day. Salt equilibrium is all you are looking for here and by taking it a little slow, you will have much more control over what you want to get in the end. Alternatively, you could leave it in for 4 days, then let it sit for a day in the fridge, no brine. Both will get you where you need to go. Curing time also varies on thickness, as the cure will take longer to reach the interior of a thick piece than a thin piece. It simply has longer to go with a fixed rate of travel. The fat slows things down because lipids and water don't like each other all that well and will resist osmosis, which is the process that carries salt inwards. The way to tell when a piece of wet-brined/cured meat is ready for the next step is the feel of it. When the meat is ready, it should be firm but yielding. Most common examples of correct feel are soccer balls or volley balls. If it still feels raw, like a jell-o filled balloon, you need to wait a little longer. If it feels like an (American) football or basketball, you've gone too far. I know 'the feel of it' is very subjective and is very reliant on experience, but I don't know of another way for wet-brining that doesn't require salinity meters or other laboratory equipment. At least with dry cure you can use weight, but not here. You're stuck with the hocus-pocus method. With corned beef, I would always err on the side of over-brining it. As once you are done brining it, you will then be simmering it for a good 2-3 hours. That will draw some of the salt back out of the meat. Ultimately, don't fear. Chances are your beef will still turn out just fine, if not awesome. Charcuterie is a lot like brewing beer. So long as you clean everything and you follow the recipe mostly, it is actually pretty drat hard to screw it up. The product will still be great, though it may not be something you could buy in a store. Similarly, like brewing beer, if you want to mimic a perfect copy of a Pilsner Urquell, or a perfect Jamon Ibirico, or other highly-specific thing, you need to pay attention to every single detail, both ingredient and process. And even a tiny mistake will net you anywhere from 'an imposter' to 'unrecognizable'. But that doesn't mean it is in any way 'bad tasting'.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:09
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sirbeefalot posted:So my 3lb-brisket-in-5lbs-of-brine came out on Saturday morning, approximately 4.5 days. Rinsed, then into the slow cooker for 8 hours on low with fresh water and more pickling spice. CORN THAT BEEF! And now that you have experience and confidence, just think how great your next one will be... 
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Mar 25, 2014 16:24
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That works fine when that is what you plan and compensate for. If you just use a regular 5-day brine, you may regret leaving them in indefinitely. It may oversalt, and you can only pull so much of it back out, and over-cured meats tend to be dry and chewy. (that may be what you want, but maybe not) There are maths that you can do to see exactly how much salt you should put in a brine for an indefinite brine, and I would imagine there are recipes just for that. But really, if you want to try it, just cut back the salt a little bit. Not too much, mind you, or it won't preserve. Just test and be ready for things to be slightly different than a time-specific recipe. Of course, you could give us your recipe... I would love to try it out, and if it indeed works as claimed, and my fears assuaged, it sounds like a great technique. also: I did Tjälknöl again. Man it's good. A few slices served cold with some pickled beets and boozy mead? I feel like swinging a skeggöx into my enemies face!
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Mar 28, 2014 15:16
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5% is spot on.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:34
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If you have a local, home-style butcher that you already have a good relationship with, they'll probably hook you up. Toss in a sawbuck or two for his trouble. But, a big chain style butcher, meat department, or just simply someone that doesn't know you will not cut any meat for you for legal reasons. If the safety boards find out they're putting unknown meats on their cutters, big trouble. If you want to sell food to the public at large, everything that touches the food has to be FDA inspected and approved; most notably the tools. As they can't guarantee the sanitation of your prep methods, it's against the law for them to assist you. Or at least, they open themselves to lawsuit. I've asked about four places and every one of them turned me down outright. And not very politely, either. For slicing meats by hand without them getting away from you, just make sure they are thoroughly chilled (from completely refrigerator temp to 15 min in the freezer will do you well.) and get your sharpest, longest knife. Also, the thinnest you can reasonably cut bacon while still keeping it even from end to end is maybe, maybe 3/16". 1/4" is pretty reasonable. Unless you have Jacques Pepin level knife skills, any thinner and you're pretty much guaranteed to turn it to uneven ribbons. Make a shallow guide cut along the top that's just there to hold the blade in line; just something you can help eyeball along. Then use the longest stroke you can to ideally slice in one shot. The more you monkey about with it, it can only go down hill. I find after a few slices you get a rhythm going and it shouldn't take more than about 10-15 minutes to slice up a whole pigs worth of bacon.
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Apr 2, 2014 21:06
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It won't be alive when you get it. It'll look just like it came from the grocery store. If anything, the plucking is the hard part, not the killing. Killing just takes a hard heart, plucking takes specialized equipment.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:05
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This is pretty gorgeous. Those little caps of fat are to die for. That's what I look for when I make this sort of thing. Makes me think I should do a lonzino here fairly soon. I did just buy another belly for some pancetta, but that's not really news. What is news is that while buying said belly, I decided, on a whim, to get some hog casings. A full pound of them, to be exact. Which, according to the butcher, should be enough for 100-some-odd pounds of sausage. I am super pumped, though don't know exactly what I'm gonna do with them yet. As this'll be my first foray into stuffing casings, I'll probably keep it simple with an assortment of brat/italian/polish/banger type sausages. After this, then I'll move into some dry-cured stuff. Fortunately, as long as they stay cold and in their bag, they last for years. If anyone has any good recipes, I would love to try them out and report back. Cimber posted:I just found that the local william-sonoma has pink curing salt, so tonight after my daughter's birthday part I am going to pick some up, and tomorrow morning pick up some Pork belly from the butcher to make bacon. YUM! Dive right on in, buddy! Like pretty much all of us have said at some point in this thread: it's actually fairly hard to screw it up; especially if you follow a recipe. Just enjoy the process and it will pay out in spades.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:23
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Cimber posted:--belly!-- Looking good. Now that lots of juices have come out, you will probably want to remove as much air from the bag as possible. That will help keep the brine in contact with as much meat as possible. Also, placing a large weight on top of it in the fridge will help give it a more betterer texture when it is done. I usually do a pan with a couple water bottles or soup cans or whatever I got that's heavy. You may have also figured out through the revelation of all the liquids that you don't need to be as thorough with the initial salt rub-down: once the liquids come out, they'll do the hard work for you. You only really need to be ultra-vigilant with your coverage when you are going to hang it up to dry at room temperature. Did you skin it first or are you waiting until after to do so?
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Apr 7, 2014 14:53
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Quoting from earlier in the threadholttho posted:...having a thinner belly to start with means that you will have more control and knowledge about the salt migration into your meat. Recipes rarely say how thick of a cut to use, but assume for bacon 1.5". If you have a thicker piece, you will not only have to cure it longer, but you will then have to back some of the salt out again, or the outer areas of the belly will be far too salty. Think of the salt as heat entering the meat: the heat moves in at a constant rate determined by the temperature outside. The salt moves in at a constant rate determined by the salinity of the solution outside. If you have a thick cut, by the time inside is up to temp/salt content, the outside is toast/pure salt. Fortunately, unlike cooking, you can get the salt back out. Just soak it in water for an hour or so, then let the belly rest in your fridge for a day. That will help the cut come to equilibrium. As this is your first time with belly, 2" is plenty thick. And from the looks of the photos, it's good and even. I'd say you got a pretty good slab to work with. They occasionally will come with terrible creases you can't smooth out or the one end is 1" thick and the other end is 4" thick. You won't get sick from a little bit more pink salt, that's not where the "danger" lies. If you sprinkled it on your steak by accident, that is Very Bad Thing, but a few extra grams in a bacon cure is perfectly fine. And even then, you would have to add a ton of it to get sick. Pink salt is something like 5% NaNO2, and a LD50 dose is like 7g. So, you would need to eat roughly a quarter of a pound of pink salt in one sitting to be in serious danger. I can't remember offhand, but I want to say that 2tsp is pretty standard for a couple of pounds of belly. So adding a bit more will bring you up to par. However, it is completely optional at this point; and, if you are going to do it, do it quick. The other salt has a head-start on it. Here is a pretty good and short article on nitrite/nitrates. It shows very nicely how ubiquitous these nitrites are: http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/seasoningflavoring/a/nitrates.htm Granted, as with everything, you should take this with a grain of salt (just a little bit of pun intended) and just don't be goony with eating salty, fatty meats for every meal. holttho fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 16:40
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Martello posted:Then don't stress the pink salt. The cooking will kill anything the salt misses. Technically, the relatively low-temp smoking wouldn't kill the botulism spores that somehow got inside the meat. But realistically there is no danger; you would literally have to inoculate your bacon with botulism to be in danger here. Then the only danger would be if you, for whatever reason, decided to can your bacon afterwards and let it sit for months on the shelf. The only reason I recommend it is because of the color and flavor it imparts. The health reasons are moot. I just made my pancetta yesterday and only had half of the pink salt requested, but I ain't gonna sweat it.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:19
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Cimber posted:-skin and salt- There isn't any skin on it; the skin is immediately obvious. The skin is very smooth and very tough, just like your belly skin. (well, pig skin is much much tougher than yours) Also, even though they clean it fairly well, there will still be a few bristle hairs and there will be teats on it. If you don't see any nipples, there is no skin. And finally, about half of the time, (if you have a full belly) you will get a some or all of the USDA inspectors stamp. Though, don't worry about the stamp, the ink they use is harmless and you can still render fat out of the stamped skin. As for the saltiness, I would be willing to wager that you sliced off a piece that was kinda hanging off the edge? Like it was probably the ugly, irregular little flap off to the side? If so, just know that those little guys are the saltiest piece of the meat. Just think about how much surface area they have compared to their overall volume and surface-to-center distance. That all adds up to very high levels of salt being able to get in to that tiny piece of meat. The water bath will definitely reduce salt levels, but also just letting the meat relax for a day out of the brine (but still in the fridge) will let the salt move about in the meat and come to equilibrium. Even if you don't bother with letting it rest, once you have it all smoked up, only the outer-most inch will be salty. The inner stuff will be just right. And after all of that, if it is still, for some reason, too salty, just use it as a seasoning. It'll still be super good. Jose posted:For what its worth I usually cure using just curing/pink salt and no normal salt. It only needs around 10g per 1kg of meat according to the place i buy the salt from although I sometimes use 5-10g on top of that since a couple of times I've had a patch that didn't look cured in the middle This is fine for bacon as the bacon we are making here is not a preserved product, but do not attempt for dry cure items unless explicitly told to do so. Either that or you or someone coaching you has extensive knowledge of no-salt preserving. Otherwise, best case scenario is you at least will see what's growing on your food. Worst case is that you won't...
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Apr 14, 2014 16:25
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Double post, I know but... As you are soon to get into smoking your meat, a quick word on pellicle. (I'm sure the smoking thread will know even more about this) Once you are ready to smoke your belly, take it out of the fridge and out of any container. Place it on a cooling rack or other such thing that will allow for full airflow to go around and contact the meat. Place a fan on low to blow air on the meat and let it set for at least an hour, (2 would be just fine as well) flipping about every 15-20 minutes. After the time is up, the meat part should have a decidedly tacky exterior and the fat should be dry but still 'greasy'. This is what is key to getting smoke to your food. Pellicle formation is the process in which water soluble proteins move to the surface. When we cure our meat, the salt acts to denature, or unravel the proteins in the meat, essentially freeing them up from their previous engagements. When you place the meat under forced air current, the water from the outside of the meat will evaporate, pulling moisture up from the depths of the meat. As this water migrates out, it takes those unraveled proteins along for the ride. Once they get to the surface, the water continues its journey off in the air where the protein can't follow and they just pile up on the surface. This has a two-fold benefit. First, water acts to repel smoke from meat. Some of that is due in part from water and smoke would rather not interact, and if there is excess water in the meat, the slow evaporation of water in the smoker would cause an outward pressure. Much like steam escaping food during deep-frying and holding oil at bay, steam would escape from the meat and prevent smoke from getting in. Unlike with deep-frying, we do NOT want to prevent intrusion. Secondly, proteins are like velcro for smoke. At this stage, the proteins are unraveled, but they are about to change. As you apply heat to protein, it denatures and unravels, however, if you continue this heat, they will then shrivel and clench up even tighter than before. This is what happens with a steak: cold and raw can be rather chewy, but even a little heat will loosen it up, but keep cooking until well-done and it becomes shoe leather. Once all these little protein strings are hanging out on the surface, smoke comes up and hits them, sticks, and then the heat of the smoker causes them to clench up and lock down the smoke particulate. Once that layer is down, then it's easy. Smoke sticks to smoke more quickly that meat, so it just builds up and we have exactly what we are looking for. This process also helps to form a barrier to prevent further drying out in the smoker as well as stiffening up the surface to make for easier slicing, but those are just gravy.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:59
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No, Bad Things would happen if you didn't put regular salt in anything that was going to be dry cured; which is to say 'preserved'. Regular salt and pink salt are not interchangeable and if you are using pink salt, you really strongly should have additional regular salt to back it up. They do different things in a preserved product. Pink salt takes care of botulism and adds a pleasant reddish-pink color and cured flavor. (though, as I've said before, the color is NOT from the dye in the salt. It is a chemical reaction that is essentially causing the hemoglobin to rust) Regular salt takes care of everything else from bacteria to texture. With a dry cure product, I would definitely recommend following a tried-and-true recipe from a respectable author; not some 10th-result-on-google-blog-post because it has one ingredient you like. Ruhlman is a name that has popped up in this thread a lot, and with good reason: he knows what he's doing and teaches it well. Once you have a few successes under your belt, then you can try mucking about in the details. If you don't, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if you skimp on the preserving agents and it spoils. Preservation charcuterie, along with pickling and canning pose much more risk of serious illness if it goes wrong rather than just regular cooking. So you have to pay it the proper respect. Also, take note of who is telling you what is safe and what is not compared to what is at risk. If it is a life-long butcher/charcuterie maker, chances are you can trust him pretty fully. If it is a teenage deadhead at the counter just saying, 'yea, sure, why not, it'll work' you may want remember he doesn't care if you get sick and you should go ask someone else. If it is your loving grandmother who's been doing this since the time with her grandmother, she knows a lot and definitely doesn't want to see you get sick. If it is just some dude on some internet forum: it's a total gamble.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:09
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Apr 19, 2014 19:21
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Maverix0r posted:Question: I made a Coppa to Ruhlman's recipe (just salt and pepper and a month in the chamber). There was a cavity where the bone was removed. Should I be concerned about that being an anaerobic place for botulinum to live? Real life answer: No. Science answer: Maybe, but not really. The bone cavity is not nearly air tight enough for it to be considered an anaerobic environment. Oxygen can sneak in slowly by slowly and kill off the C.botulinum. C.Botulinum is an obligate anaerobe, which means basically any amount of air will kill it. It has slight tolerance, but that would be in laboratory conditions. Usually the only way you get sick from botulism is from canned foods. Wikipedia posted:Improperly preserved food is the most common cause of food-borne botulism. Fish that has been pickled without the salinity or acidity of brine that contains acetic acid and high sodium levels, as well as smoked fish stored at too high a temperature, presents a risk, as does improperly canned food. Infants under one year should not be fed honey, a natural source of botulinum bacteria, as bacteria in the gut are not sufficiently developed.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:13
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I guess I'm not sure why they gave you nitrate and not nitrite. Like I had said earlier, do you trust the guy who gave it to you? Folksy recipes may not be safe. E.G. Moonshine. "sure, you'll be fine!" Anyways, I cannot speak at all about the water dilution, that goes beyond me. But, you can turn it into regular pink salt #2 (Prague powder #2, Insta-cure #2, or Sel Rose) if you want. The recipe is (by weight): 89.25% regular salt 6.75% sodium nitrite 4.0% sodium nitrate Use for long-curing meats. Typical use is roughly 1-2g per 500g. If you don't have the nitrite, I make no guarantees. Nitrate turns into nitrite over time, so if you don't have the nitrite, you may not be protecting yourself in the timezone that it guards at.
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Apr 29, 2014 15:08
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That's much more reasonable. I was also thinking it strange you could easily get your hands on such an amount of the pure stuff. Many people have commented in here on what a powerful oxidizer it is. It's barely a step away from being rocket fuel. Or worse. With that new info, then 2oz in a gallon will just net you a fairly mild brine.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:50
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Kramjacks posted:molds White surface mold is the mold you want. It is harmless, and and in many cases will provide a piquancy to the food that nothing else can bring to the table. Many will occur naturally, some you have to inoculate. Fuzzy/poofy white mold is so-so. Green mold is not good, but you can just wipe it away with a good, strong salt water and check for any deterioration of the meat. (from you photos, you don't have any to worry about). Black mold, on the other hand, just throw whatever you are making away. Not only is it rather toxic, but it sends down 'feeler roots' into the meat that you can't see and can easily penetrate the entire depth of the product. There is essentially no way to cut away the bad parts. If you keep a clean house with little rot (building and structure rot, not like rotting food laying around) and low humidity, black mold has a hard time taking root. If you've recently recovered from a flood, do not cure meats, as black mold will likely be lurking about. Anyways, I recently finished a new pancetta recipe. I based it on Ruhlman, but then fiddled about with it. Doubled the black pepper/juniper (I love the stuff), a tiny touch of red pepper flake, and added a few more Mediterranean savories. After two weeks in the fridge, I hung it in the closet under damp paper towels for about 5 weeks. Turned out pretty awesome. Man is it potent. The drat thing was too large to roll, so I just had to fold it in half for the drying. About 9.8lbs. 
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May 28, 2014 16:55
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Nah, they're not interchangeable. Canadian, UK, US bacon are all awesome in their own right. It's like when people get you to drink almond milk and say now you never have to have cow milk ever again. I like both kinds, but one does not exclude the other.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:56
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Did you talk to the butcher to see when they get their deliveries? That's always a great way avoid going at the wrong times. You may also need to specify to them that you want a large sized belly. I may be mistaken, but the rep may also mean that those of us that require whole belly are so rare to a grocer that it isn't economical to keep any in stock; rather than it flying out the door too fast.
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Jun 4, 2014 00:45
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Thawing then drying will also help you reduce excess moisture in the bag during the curing process. Not only does freezing trap a little atmospheric moisture on the meat, but it also ruptures cell walls, allowing interior liquid to be released once thawed. Thawing completely then drying will remove all of this. The less liquid you have, the better. Though once you start the curing process, leave any naturally liberated liquids in the bag.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:17
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