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Orange Devil posted:I can see how you can make arguments against tracking, but the allergic reaction I tend to find in US media about it is just so completely alien to me. Well, I'll keep it short to avoid derailing a fine thread into US-centric concerns. Despite the fact that I think there are a few reasons why tracking would be bad in the US (mainly because our wealth inequality is much higher meaning tracking would exacerbate the already big gulf in educational opportunities between the poor and rich, which is already bad because of our poor funding models, and etc., etc.), I think it comes down to a culture difference. The idea that anyone can work their way up from rags to riches is a cornerstone of our cultural idea, and people are leery of overtly blocking opportunities in that way. The pain of racial segregation is also very recent and despite the fact that we've really not integrated our schools, we definitely aren't looking to re-instate anything that looks like it.
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Sep 30, 2011 21:08
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^^^ Yeah, but you already have that gulf, but instead of having different levels of high school education, whether within the same school as in the Netherlands, or different schools as I believe Germany does it, you have it with the difference between innercity and suburbian schools. You just pretend they are the same on paper. Furthermore, social mobility in Germany is higher than the US, although I believe lower than Canada. Like I said, it's not that there's no arguments against tracking, but I always feel like the arguments for tracking are never fairly considered in the US, precisely because of emotions about "cultural values" and fear about race relations.
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Sep 30, 2011 21:16
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Orange Devil posted:Like I said, it's not that there's no arguments against tracking, but I always feel like the arguments for tracking are never fairly considered in the US, precisely because of emotions about "cultural values" and fear about race relations. I don't disagree with views on the problems already exist, and that those things skew discussions on the matter. However, you can wave away cultural issues, but race issues you absolutely can not. The matter of race in America almost completely defines us much more than our love for capitalist ideas. But I'm fine with agreeing to agree on the reasons but disagree on the importance.
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Sep 30, 2011 21:28
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I think tracking is dumb because taking a bunch of kids who probably aren't going to want to do what they want to do when they're ten years old as adults is a pretty bad idea.
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Sep 30, 2011 21:42
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I don't think the German system is that bad. Even if you don't go to the right type of school initially, you can always qualify for university later, and this actually happens a lot. What I really like about the German system is that if you have the qualification to attend university, you can study (almost) any subject at any university regardless of what classes you took high school or how much your grades sucked. foobardog posted:The idea that anyone can work their way up from rags to riches is a cornerstone of our cultural idea, and people are leery of overtly blocking opportunities in that way. The pain of racial segregation is also very recent and despite the fact that we've really not integrated our schools, we definitely aren't looking to re-instate anything that looks like it. But the US educational system is incredibly elitist and social mobility is considerably higher in Germany. vvvv Yeah, we agree, I misunderstood your point Previously on GBS fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Sep 30, 2011 23:58
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Previously on GBS posted:But the US educational system is incredibly elitist and social mobility is considerably higher in Germany. I guess I wasn't clear. I'm an American talking why it is not a good idea in the American system. This is my exact point. I know it works well in Germany. As loath as I am to support an argument based around American Exceptionalism, this is a case where it applies. fe: Though perhaps you're not actually disagreeing with me?
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Oct 1, 2011 00:31
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DeusEx posted:That's very true. Denmark is very beautiful, and being myself from Hamburg I can attest that we drive a lot to Denmark, still it isn't really what you would describe as an "exciting country". On that note, how do you Germans communicate with your Dutch/Danish/etc. neighbors when visiting? Is German enough of a lingua franca that they speak it, or do you all just switch to English?
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Oct 1, 2011 00:46
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Anti-Hero posted:On that note, how do you Germans communicate with your Dutch/Danish/etc. neighbors when visiting? Is German enough of a lingua franca that they speak it, or do you all just switch to English? There's German in high school in the Netherlands, and a good number of speakers of both the 'decent' and 'lovely' variety, but English is usually a lot more convenient I've found.
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Oct 1, 2011 01:21
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What is Deutsche Bahn like now that it's been privatized? How has it changed since its public days?
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Oct 1, 2011 02:39
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DerDestroyer posted:What is Deutsche Bahn like now that it's been privatized? How has it changed since its public days? They have trouble with the weather. If its cold and snows (i.e. winter), no trains run because the switches are frozen. If its hot and sunny (i.e. summer), the AC fails and the trains run hot (50°+C). I think their biggest problem is that the trains don't run exactly on time, and, well, we do have a bit of a reputation to maintain in that regard. "Deutsche Bahn: We get you there. Eventually."
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Oct 1, 2011 12:01
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Anti-Hero posted:On that note, how do you Germans communicate with your Dutch/Danish/etc. neighbors when visiting? Is German enough of a lingua franca that they speak it, or do you all just switch to English? I'm Dutch. There are a lot of germsn tourists comming to the Netherlands and the majority of them communicate in german. Pretty much everybody in the Netherlands has a very basic understanding/knowledge of german. Although this is deminishing more and more in the younger generations and you see those switching to english more often. Edit: It's actually an interesting shift. I was born and raised in a rather small town less than 5 miles from the german border. There used to be a lot of interaction between the German's and Dutch on either side of the border. They even had their own kind of German/Dutch mix dialect. There used to be lots of cross border mariages and stuff. But in recent years, even though the border has become more open and less of an issue than ever before, the communities are drifting further and further apart as they lose the ability to communicate with each other (unless using english as a medium). Confusion fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 12:14
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I spent my time in elementary school in a neighborhood that was considered "bad" (lot's of subsidized housing, immigrants, working poor, violence, theft...). The elementary school I went to was combined with a Hauptschule, which is the lowest tier of the secondary schools, ending after grade 9 already. This school was considered a problem school, and there was plenty of violence starting in grade one because the young kids would associate with cliques of older teens from the Hauptschule branch of the school. We had knifes and brass knuckles confiscated in grade one in my class. All the problems of the German school system were very appearant in that situation: We lived in that area because it was cheap and because with both parents still working on their degrees money was tight. Now, the school system said that kids have to go to the next elementary school to their place of living. People with the means to do so often circumvented this by registering in a different location and driving their kids to school (there are no school buses). After the first four years (the elementary school part), the majority of students were sent directly to the integrated hauptschule. The only kids that got sent to the Gymnasiums (the only schools that allow you to go to university later) were those that came from a "good" background. So, like me, they either had parents that were students and therefore just about socially acceptable, or they were "good Germans" with good jobs that simply didn't flee the neighborhood with the rest of them when the poor people and immigrants moved in. For those kids, even bad grades didn't mean that they couldn't go to Gymnasium, as in our state it is simply a strong recommendation (it will be weighed when applying at the Gymnasium), not actually mandatory. It simply took the parents to be forceful and the teachers to be understanding. Everyone else, the working poor, the unemployed, the immigrants, were told in the most vivid colors how going to Gymnasium would break their kids, the high pressure, the unfamiliar environment, and to spare them the disappointment. After all, a good menial job is nothing to be ashamed of, right? And a nice Hauptschulabschluss will still allow you to become a craftsman or mechanic too! Even good grades didn't save you. The second best kid in my class was a girl with Iranian parents. She was sent to a Realschule (second tier of the ladder) because the teachers were just convinced that she could never make it at a Gymnasium with her background, and they worked on the parents until they agreed. I kept in contact with her, and she did actually make it to University in the end, but it took several extra years, a vocational training in a job she didn't want to do in the first place, and lots of angry feelings about her parents basically being railroaded into this decision by all those people who were supposed to give them recommendations for the best education of their child. Now, you could dismiss this as purely anecdotal, but every single study on our school system finds exactly the same problem. Kids are being selected at age 9/10 and social background is a much higher factor than it should be. Both because of prejudices when the recommendations are being given, but also because especially if you come from a "bad" social environment you will have a hard time to achieve on a high level "right out of the box". If school is the first and only time you have similar possiblities as the kids from a "better" background, taking away those possiblities already again at age 10 is terrible. And believe me, getting back on track later is a lot harder than you might think. Oh, and another anecdote: The "Gynmasium" I went to after elementary school was situated right outside the neighborhood of my elementary school. I still lived in there, so it was a nice 10 minute walk from home every morning. However, on the first day of orientation at my new school, every student was handed a small map. That map showed the routes we were supposed to walk from the school to the main train/bus station, and had big red lines we were not supposed to cross. These red lines surrounded the neighborhood I lived in. It was deemed too dangerous for decent German kids to go into. Too much violence, you'd be "ripped off". This fear was of course not based in reality. I am sure that if you looked at crime stats they were elevated compared to the other areas of the city, and certainly compared to the suburbs that most of my fellow students were bus'ed in from, but you could just walk on these streets like the other 30000 of us. So while my fellow students were swapping horror stories about what was supposedly happening in that terrible neighborhood, 10 year old me was walking with my backpack happily home every day. I think that this illustrates the mindset of the people in charge of giving recommendations about your children's education though. At age 9, the few lucky kids will be selected who get to escape. At age 10, those that were allowed outside are told not go back in because "those people" are dangerous.
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Oct 1, 2011 13:20
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dreamin' posted:You're forgetting the Gesamtschule which appeared only recently as a school form. Well, "recently" as in 25 years ago or so. You will be tested in several stages if you can be recommended for the next school level, so to speak. Which means you start there at age 9, stay there for a few years and make a Hauptschulabschluss or decide to go further. After a few more years you can get a Realschulabschluss or decide to go for Abitur (certifying you to study at a university). While that doesn't solve all the problems inherent to the German education system, it's a nice step forward because what amounts to basically your whole future isn't decided at 9 years old and your academic potential can be assessed for a good while longer.
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Oct 1, 2011 13:34
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In Hamburg the government passed a law that would have extend primary education from the first 4 years to 6 years, before kids would be seperated into the two different tiers (Stadteilschule and Gymnasium) here. The idea was that the longer the kids spent learning together, the more it would blur the social segregation mentioned by the posters above. It was repealed by an public initiative led by well off, highly educated, white people from the so called "Bildungsbürgertum", on the note that desegregation would lower the level of school education to the lowest common denominator and would thus hamper the chance of their kids receiving a school education, that makes full use of their potential. Translated this means "I don't want that my kids have to socialize with filthy immigrant children and working class scum longer than necessary!". The initiative passed because the "Bildungsbürgertum" people were better organized and acutually gone to the polls, while the lower class people abstained from it (as was predictable). In reality Germany is very much a classicist and somewhat racist society, especially at the upper levels, where people want to remain among themselves. DeusEx fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 14:53
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The Flour Moth posted:You're forgetting the Gesamtschule which appeared only recently as a school form. Well, "recently" as in 25 years ago or so. You will be tested in several stages if you can be recommended for the next school level, so to speak. Yeah it's also why the Gesamtschule is hated so much by the conservatives or, more realistically, everybody from center to the right
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Oct 1, 2011 15:14
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DeusEx posted:Translated this means "I don't want that my kids have to socialize with filthy immigrant children and working class scum longer than necessary!". I disagree. How would you combine them anyway. Hold them to current gymnasium standards? More people that used to be in the hauptschule/werkrealschule would drop out. Lower the standards to realschule? Wasting potential and dropping in scores compared to the rest of the world. I doubt the solution will be to unite the different 'tiers'. I agree however that it should be easier to switch and that teachers should be better in their judgement.
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Oct 1, 2011 15:35
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Sereri posted:I disagree. How would you combine them anyway. Hold them to current gymnasium standards? More people that used to be in the hauptschule/werkrealschule would drop out. Lower the standards to realschule? Wasting potential and dropping in scores compared to the rest of the world. Anecdotal evidence: My parents immigrated with me from Poland when I was five years old. I wasn't the best student in the Grundschule (primary school), but because people from eastern Europe are somewhat more desirable immigrants, than say people from the middle east, or god help, Africa, (meaning we're white and from a European culture), as well as my parents having university degrees, I surely got a "Gymnasialempfehlung" (recommendation for the highest tier of secondary education). People from less desirable backgrounds, even though their grades where similar to mine, didn't got one. My primary school teacher even told me, that my grades wouldn't normally qualify me for the Gymnasium, but then never proceeded to explain why I received the recommendation anyway. DeusEx fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 15:45
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how dare germany have well funded apprenticeship schemes that is an actual alternative to university and creates pride in workmanship and master craftsmen 
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Oct 1, 2011 15:57
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DeusEx posted:The initiative passed because the "Bildungsbürgertum" people were better organized and acutually gone to the polls, while the lower class people abstained from it (as was predictable). That was probably the most shameful low mark of "democracy" in our city in recent times. The agressive self-satisfaction and foaming-at-the-mouth fury of the bourgeoisie (You could really see it in the faces of interviewed upper class fucks on TV: "How DARE they even suggest sending their filthy rat-children to OUR schools?!") combined with the complete apathy and disinterest of the lower classes were truly depressing. The way I see it ideally every school would be raised to Gymnasium standards, which of course would require immense investments into the education sector, so that not only children that are being tutored by their university educated parents get enough education to follow the challenging curriculum. But the ruling classes would never allow such useless nonsense like improving education across society, improving the lives of dirty commoners, hah, while even more billions of Euros can be burned in the neverending bonfire of bank bailouts and European empire-building. Also, don't you know, taxes on the rich are way too high already!
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Oct 1, 2011 16:06
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I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with splitting children based on the capacity at an early stage, then teaching them at a higher level, and allow them the only ones to get a university degree. (backdoor entries are still possible through some other ways) But yes, the shift isn't made based on pure merit and intellect anymore. I'm Dutch and in the Netherlands we have a similar system. My parents are/were simple middle-class (dad started working at age 16), and me and my siblings all went to the gymnaseum equivalent. But one of the worst students in my class was the son of the local doctor. He was always slow, asking questions, and then suddenly was "diagnosed with dyslexia" so he could take an additional 15 mins for each test. I recently saw on LinkedIn it took him 10 years to get a master's degree. Education used to be the great class equalizer, but nowadays higher eduction is often used by the higher classes to make sure their children have a big head start over the rest. The really smart kids from the lower classes will still "escape", but the above and below average on either side will not move up/down like they should.
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Oct 1, 2011 16:06
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As a German who went to a Waldorfschule, the whole debate is kind of strange to me. For those who don't know, the Waldorfschule is a private school, organized after the teachings of Austrian esotericist and philosopher Rudolf Steiner. Today I have quite some criticisms about the whole movement around the work of Steiner, but one of the things that I really liked about the school, was the fact that there was almost no separating of the children. The already mentioned Gesamtschule is more like all three schools in the same building, but still with separate classes for the different levels of academic performance. It is easier to switch to an advanced class, because you don't have to switch schools, but it's still pretty far from the meaning of it's name (gesamt = whole, collective). In my school, I had every class with all the other children from my year, with exception of the languages from class 9 or 10 onwards. There were cases, where I was annoyed, because someone asked the teacher for an explanation, he had already given 3 times, which I had understood the first time. But then I saw children, who certainly would not made it as far as they got, had they been send to the Hauptschule. From my class (around 35 children) only 1 made a Hauptschulabschluss, the rest Realschule (after 12 years) or Abitur (after 13 years). I'm not going to pretend that the demographic composition of a typical Waldorf class is comparable to the demographic of a school with lots of children from low income or immigrant families. However there were enough children in my class with difficult backgrounds to see, that for every time the "better" student got "dragged down" the was also a time, when the "not so good" students were lifted up. Sometimes simply by being not written of and put away, but given the chance to go as far as they really could. One girl in my class was a foster child. She had drug problems, cut herself and once asked, whether people died, when the European continent and the American continent drifted apart. However, she worked through those issues and at the end made a very good Realschulabschluss and went on to successfully learn her dream job. I cant really imagine her doing that in the segregated schools. However, the most important thing to me is that when I started university, I noticed, that I had a radically different perspective at social rank then the other students. People couldn't imagine going to school with the lower classes and being "held back" by people not as awesome and gifted as them. Someone already mentioned, that the society in Germany is more a collection of parallel societies, who have often not much in common. I very much agree with that. I think the school system has a lot to do with that. What you learn in school is not only what's in the books, but school is a major social environment in the formative years of childhood and adolescence. I think it would do a lot of good for peoples perspective on society and their fellows citizens, when schools were not segregated by some mixture of classicism and economic interests. Apart from that, the German system isn't even good at separating people according to their ability. Economic and social background plays a mayor role in where you end up and people from the upper classes have a lot of possibilities when it comes to making sure their child gets Abitur.
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Oct 1, 2011 17:57
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Plankalkuel posted:
Huh? Maybe I didn't understand you correctly, but there were no separations between kids until the Realschule ended. All kids went to the same classes until some of them graduated with Hauptschulabschluss. Then the same class continued for a few years (sans the kids who graduated of course) until more graduated with Realschulabschluss. After that, the classes were split up into courses for Abitur (Basic and advanced courses, every student had to choose four advanced courses/ Leistungskurse).
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Oct 1, 2011 18:20
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The Flour Moth posted:Huh? Maybe I didn't understand you correctly, but there were no separations between kids until the Realschule ended. All kids went to the same classes until some of them graduated with Hauptschulabschluss. Then the same class continued for a few years (sans the kids who graduated of course) until more graduated with Realschulabschluss. After that, the classes were split up into courses for Abitur (Basic and advanced courses, every student had to choose four advanced courses/ Leistungskurse). What I wrote was based mainly on what a friend of mine told me, who went to a Gesamtschule in Schleswig Holstein. According to Wikipedia there is currently a separation for German, English and math in I and II courses in all Gesamtschulen. The individual schools can apparently split further courses into I and II. My description of the Gesamtschule was not correct then, but I think my other points still stand. Also not to forget, Gesamtschulen are currently only available in half of Germany, because the other states fear, that their precious education standards might suffer from a little competition.
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Oct 1, 2011 19:23
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StrangeRobot posted:The way I see it ideally every school would be raised to Gymnasium standards, which of course would require immense investments into the education sector, so that not only children that are being tutored by their university educated parents get enough education to follow the challenging curriculum. But the ruling classes would never allow such useless nonsense like improving education across society, improving the lives of dirty commoners, hah, while even more billions of Euros can be burned in the neverending bonfire of bank bailouts and European empire-building. Also, don't you know, taxes on the rich are way too high already! Believe it or not, but not every child has the same capabilities. Raising all schools to the Gymnasium level is simply impossible because not everybody can reach that level, no matter how much you invest in it. Futhermore, you'd be making a lot of kids very miserable, as trying to push somebody above his level is an incredibly frustrating experience for that person.
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Oct 1, 2011 19:30
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Plankalkuel posted:Also not to forget, Gesamtschulen are currently only available in half of Germany, because the other states fear, that their precious education standards might suffer from a little competition. You can say that twice. If I ever have kids I'll do my best to send them to a Gesamtschule. My experience there was thoroughly positive, even in retrospect.
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Oct 1, 2011 20:26
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Confusion posted:Believe it or not, but not every child has the same capabilities. Raising all schools to the Gymnasium level is simply impossible because not everybody can reach that level, no matter how much you invest in it. Futhermore, you'd be making a lot of kids very miserable, as trying to push somebody above his level is an incredibly frustrating experience for that person. Why does it work in other countries, like Finland, that routinely end up far far ahead of the german schools in all comparative studies? Seems like its perfectly possible. Plankalkül posted:However, the most important thing to me is that when I started university, I noticed, that I had a radically different perspective at social rank then the other students. People couldn't imagine going to school with the lower classes and being "held back" by people not as awesome and gifted as them. Someone already mentioned, that the society in Germany is more a collection of parallel societies, who have often not much in common. I very much agree with that. I think the school system has a lot to do with that. This is actually the worst about the school system. I talked about my "career path" from a bad neighborhood elementary school to a nice upper class Gymnasium. I was into all sports involving balls at the time, so I was used to play basketball, football etc. on street courts. I learned not to bring most of my friends from Gymnasium to these because they were simply unable to hide their disdain for the other kids playing when they realized they were from one of "those" schools. I stopped bringing my "good" Gymnasium friends to these matches because we ended up getting into fights because they couldn't keep themselves from being arrogant little shits over their perceived status and class that they had on the regular kids where normally everyone else was playing without a problem. And they seldom shake that attitude in adult life. And don't get me started on the casual racism towards everyone who's brown...
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Oct 1, 2011 21:42
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dreamin' posted:Why does it work in other countries, like Finland, that routinely end up far far ahead of the german schools in all comparative studies? Seems like its perfectly possible. Having students that do better than German students and educating everyone to Abitur level are still very two different things. Besides, if basically everyone in German was middle class and a native speaker of German, we'd also do a lot better. EDIT: I don't think Gesamtschulen can ever really work as long as there are other options. In my experience, everyone who clearly was good enough for gymnasium went there. Gesamtschule was pretty much only for people who weren't quite sure they'd be able to make it at a regular gymnasium, so the quality of the education was not exactly very high. vvvv Laziness? At least that's my reason. Previously on GBS fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 22:12
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Why does everyone wait till the light is green to cross the street, regardless of if there are cars coming or not? I know the police will give you a ticket, but if I have time to check both directions 3 or 4 times, I can also check for the police. I was actually yelled at (well, in a passive aggresive way) by a woman for crossing the street today. Also, children have parents. They can tell them not to cross the street.
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Oct 1, 2011 22:20
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dreamin' posted:Why does it work in other countries, like Finland, that routinely end up far far ahead of the german schools in all comparative studies? Seems like its perfectly possible. Confusion fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 22:28
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DeusEx posted:Anecdotal evidence: I don't think this applies to people from the Balkans. I'll have to ask some of my Serbian relatives how difficult it was for them to get through education. One of them is a University Professor now so I'm not sure how bad it was for him. I just know he was sent back a few grades when he immigrated as a kid. My understanding is anyone from the Balkans in Germany endures the same discrimination as middle-eastern or black people even though they're technically white and European. Despite having been Canadian for more than 20 years I've always been terrified that having a east European sounding name and "Serbia" written on my place of birth in my passport will condemn me to some severe discrimination in Germany. Your place of Birth is also vividly displayed on your Personalausweis and I feel like this is a way to add to any distinctions in case you are able to speak perfect German and blend into the crowd. It doesn't help that Serbians living in Germany have traditionally been thieves, swindlers and criminals or that Serbia was involved in a genocide a very short time ago. DerDestroyer fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 22:29
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Gold and a Pager posted:I was actually yelled at (well, in a passive aggresive way) by a woman for crossing the street today. We Germans love rules. We love reminding people of rules even more.
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Oct 1, 2011 22:31
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Gold and a Pager posted:
My parents told me not to cross red lights and I did it anyway when I thought I could get away with it, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only kid doing that. When at a red light and there are kids watching, adults should set a good example and stay were they are. Feel free to call me spießig now.  Edit: Although a group of German people standing at a red light always becomes funny when somebody suddenly decides to cross the street, and you can see the rest of the group is engaging in an inner struggle whether to follow them, or keep standing there. Crossing at red is against the rules, but on the other hand that person who just crossed the completely car-free street sure does make the rest of us look dumb... what to do... Ententod fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 1, 2011 |
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Oct 1, 2011 22:41
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Ya I too only give a poo poo if there are kids around.
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Oct 1, 2011 22:45
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Crossing the street while the light is red without endangering others? Fine. Crossing the street while the light is red not giving a poo poo if you'll cause a 17 car pileup? Fine if you are in a hurry. Crossing the street while the light is red and setting a bad example that might endanger children? gently caress you!
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Oct 1, 2011 23:08
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dreamin' posted:Why does it work in other countries, like Finland, that routinely end up far far ahead of the german schools in all comparative studies? Seems like its perfectly possible. I don't know how it is in Germany, but if I recall correctly, all teachers at all levels in Finland have to have a Masters degree in their field and a teaching degree. I bet that has a lot to do with their good results.
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Oct 2, 2011 01:46
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I am currently in a student in a Master program in Münster and have also lived in Hamburg as well as Berlin. I have been in Germany for well over a year and a half and I absolutely love it here. Hamburg was great (but expensive), Berlin was a party and a half (but dirty and no where near enough jobs), while Münster is nicely in between. I have to agree that I see far more shelves not stocked (including rotting fruit/vegetables) in Rewe than I ever would in the States (or even England). I have had little problem so far with internet or telephone, although I have noticed recently that my internet has slowed down significantly but we have Alice so I am not sure how that relates. (I have not tracked down the problem as the same time my connection with my router gets hosed) To be honest, there are better places to live than in Germany and there are even places within Germany that is better to live in than others. However, I like Germany far more than the States and I have no plans to ever return to the States (I just maybe will not stay in Germany). You can ask me what it is like to be a student in Germany compared to the States (At least in the state of North Rhein Westfalia) and I will pretty much answer every question the same: it is infinitely better here.
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Oct 2, 2011 02:18
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hankor posted:Crossing the street while the light is red without endangering others? Fine. Haha, this is so goddamn true with the older Germans. I loving hate older Germans. They complain all the time over the littlest detail and will not stop until you walk off or shamefully bow to their demands.
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Oct 2, 2011 02:21
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DrewkroDleman posted:I am currently in a student in a Master program in Münster and have also lived in Hamburg as well as Berlin. I have been in Germany for well over a year and a half and I absolutely love it here. Hamburg was great (but expensive), Berlin was a party and a half (but dirty and no where near enough jobs), while Münster is nicely in between. How difficult is it to enter a german masters program from abroad? I'm a CS major with a decent (3.3) University GPA and a lackluster cumulative gpa (2.8). I'm going to germany for a semester as a transfer student this spring, and I'm going to minor in german. Will it be really difficult to be accepted to a university such as Paderborn?
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Oct 2, 2011 02:29
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Shouldn't be difficult at all. But why Paderborn?DrewkroDleman posted:You can ask me what it is like to be a student in Germany compared to the States (At least in the state of North Rhein Westfalia) and I will pretty much answer every question the same: it is infinitely better here. In which ways is it better? And which university did you attend in the US?
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Oct 2, 2011 02:48
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Previously on GBS posted:Shouldn't be difficult at all. But why Paderborn? It's where my university program is sending me this spring and I figured it would be easier to get into a program there since I had already attended the university. I am doing my masters in germany because it will be much cheaper than anywhere in the US, and I hope to emigrate to germany and being there for 2 or more years will give me a good amount of time to job hunt.
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Oct 2, 2011 03:09
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