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hankor posted:
...so basically pretty much like the Stasi or Gestapo, but with a much more liberal ideology and correspondingly methods+scope?
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Oct 2, 2011 20:15
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DerDestroyer posted:It's not like Adolph Hitler Jr. is going to mysteriously disappear at night and get driven away in a black van never to return again. Yeah, I'm not arguing practicalities - and certainly not from an American perspective, being Norwegian myself. I'm just pointing out that both the Stasi and Gestapo were, in essence, secret police for "investigating people that might be a danger to society due to ideological conflicts with the constitution". It's a way of repressing those whose societal views fundamentally do not align with those in power, and presumably the majority, and in that sense it's very much a paralell to the Gestapo/Stasi institutions. Obviously a state as large and diverse as the German one will need something to violently enforce ideological homogenity, but pretending that it isn't in essence very similar to the more authoritarian variants is just disrespectful to the neonazis that're being constantly monitored for signs of illegal activities.
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Oct 3, 2011 00:08
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Standardised tests never, ever work out that way. They are almost always horribly regressive, and you'd end up with ridiculous stuff like the US system where schools are rewarded for their standardised test scores.
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Oct 3, 2011 18:41
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Einbauschrank posted:If "moderate socialists" are running the party and congratulating dictators like Fidel Castro on his birthday or supporting a newspaper that congratulates the building of the Berlin Wall then I don't dare to know what "extreme socialists" would do. Your post reads like the reactionary rot it is. From equating socialism to racism, calling the DDR the "Second" German dictatorship (seriously, how loving incredibly ignorant do you have to be for that) to insisting that Die Linke is literally the SED, your post is full of absurdities and tripe. You brought up the casualty list of socialism - shall we look at whatever socioeconomic system you prefer? I guarantee you that it's longer and more sordid unless you're an anarchist or something. Which you're not. Capitalism - four hundred years of poverty and dictatorships around the globe!
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Oct 9, 2011 23:13
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flavor posted:Some people can never reflect if their ideologies have ever done anything wrong, they can only point to the other side. My post was specifically adressed to the absurdities posited by Einbauschrank. I don't think body counts are valid for use the way they were used by him - in a completely retarded manner. Obviously, the deaths under Stalin and Mao should be remembered and reflected upon, but discarding socialism with STALIN is similar to discarding bourgeois democracy by saying ROBSPIERRE. It makes no sense whatsoever and I'm so incredibly tired of people doing it. Die Linke is, like every other radical socialist party in Europe, connected to some shady poo poo in its history. That does not mean that its membership or its policies are remotely similar to those of the SED. Yes, a lot of the true believers from SED have stayed put, but over the course of the party's evolution (or revolutions if you prefer), the central message has changed from Soviet-style authoritarian communism to a much more western democratic socialism. Hell, they're not even particularly radical compared to, say, the danish Enhedslisten. Die Linke is not the SED. Yes, it's a descendant. Yes, a lot of people who supported the SED then support Die Linke now. The fact remains that the basic statutes of Die Linke are radically different to those of the old SED.
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Oct 10, 2011 13:53
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Einbauschrank posted:Contrary to State Socialism there have been "Bourgeois Democracies" (e.g.: liberal democracies) that didn't end in a shitstorm and/or bloodbath for all involved. That's why I am tired of Socialists with their "Last time wasn't real Socialism, this time it will work, we swear" blather. There's a reason that the socialist parties that've survived have been hard, brutal ones. The ones that weren't were crushed by force - much like the early bourgeois. quote:And how convenient to leave out your very own name handle in this little list of blood thirsty tyrants. The "Red Terror" of the SU was instigated by a certain V. Illych Lenin. Because, you know, these "reformed" Socialists have really learnt their lesson and feel really sorry and responsible for the victims of Socialism as can be seen by supporters naming themselves after the instigator of the Red Terror. Hahaha, you pathetic little man. Is that seriously the best you can come up with? quote:I was informed that extremist, i.e. radicals, only form a minority of the SED-PDS-Linke. Now the party itself is "radical". You should coordinate your agitprop better, comrades. Apparently, yes. Hint: A radical socialist party is one that fundamentally aims towards a socialist socioeconomic model w/ collective ownership of the means of production. The extremists previously mentioned are in favour of actual violent revolution. But you're a dishonest piece of poo poo, so I'm not going to get anywhere, am I. quote:It is not a descendant, it is a renamed party. Or can you show me when and where the SED was dissolved? The SED was renamed into PDS and later into the Linkspartei. Even the so called "merger" with WASG wasn't a merger but a take over of the WASG by the Linkspartei which then went on renaming itself once again, this time into "die.Linke". Right. So the stated policy of a political party is irrelevant. I... am not sure how to respond to this. The CDU wants to instate a papist theocracy, I guess? Like it or not, Die Linke is a party that runs on a pretty clear platform. That platform is decided democratically within the party, not by random reactionaries on the internet. As for the party leader being "supposed" to be a moderating influence, you're just flat-out wrong. It may or may not have been a very wise statement, but that does not render him in violation of any sort of democratic principle.
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Oct 10, 2011 21:57
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Einbauschrank posted:Whole lot of ignorant gibberish 1: State Socialism is exactly what's going on in the Bolivarian countries these days. The ball is out in that court. State socialism, to a degree, was what Republican Spain was doing. 'course, a lot of examples of "State socialism" have ended up being, well, capitalist and not really socialist at all (See China, Vietnam), so there's a fine line to tread there. 2: Lenin was never the big kulak-killer, that was rather later with Stalin. Of course, he *did* kill a bunch of people who disagreed with him what with the civil war and everything, but the major attack on the kulaks came well after Lenin had died. You completely ahistorical idiot. 3: Die Linke is not the same party as the SED, per its core ideology as stated. You know what, I'm out. I'll just end up probated if I keep on arguing this poo poo with you, and it's not worth it.
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Oct 11, 2011 08:21
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Sarazin is also neoliberal as poo poo
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Aug 24, 2012 18:35
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A modern (postwar) economy could not feed a large population without the income a decent industrial sector brings. Even with the loss of life due to war, there would have been widespread unemployment as number of labourers meets with pretty sharply diminishing returns after a certain point, and so you'd end up with a large, hungry and landless underclass and a state without the revenues to take care of them in any effective way. This would lead either to a continuous dependence on foreign aid, mass emigration (haha) or death by starvation until the population stabilised at a very low level. It was never a realistic plan in the long term, of course, but they could've done a lot of damage if they'd tried.
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Nov 10, 2012 15:46
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flavor posted:The deeper wave of dealing with the past started at some point in the 60s. And it's nice to white knight the RAF, who killed people like drivers and airline pilots or were complicit in it. I see no justification for this. Dude, he was hardy white knighting the RAF by saying some of the people they killed were despicable. Which they were. Honestly, hitting old nazis who have remained in positions of authority has got to be one of the least offensive acts of terrorism in history. This doesn't necessarily excuse the remainder of the RAF actions (and actually, it makes no attempt at justifying even those actions themselves, saying only that the victims garner no sympathy), but it's legitimate to bring them up as they specifically targetted "rehabilitated" nazis (as you no doubt know very well). It's like you've willfully misinterpreted a perfectly legible sentence because you know and dislike the person uttering it. This is not productive and you shouldn't do it.
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Nov 11, 2012 04:24
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flavor posted:No. This is a while ago, but I actually have to make a slight apology here: I assumed that the RAF had hit more nazis than they actually did, based on what now appears to be faulty information. I should obviously have checked it before posting. Sorry! This does not invalidate the main point of my post, which is that accusing someone of "white-knighting" a group like the RAF on as incredibly shaky foundation as having "no sympathy" for "some of their victims" is completely groundless and really quite offensive. I also note that you did essentially the same with my post, apparently deliberately misconstruing a statement about the relative shittyness of different terrorist actions as support of RAF/leftist terrorist activity in general. Insinuating that people support terrorism is not OK unless you've got pretty solid foundation for it, and I find it quite objectionable, as I've already stated.
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Nov 12, 2012 20:34
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It is traditionally the colour of revolt, and it has been the colour claimed and ceded to socialism since at least 1871, so...
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Nov 17, 2012 18:38
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It's a trend throughout Northern Europe, I think. The youth is becoming conservative, probably because of the relatively easy times that we're having and the perceived obsolescence of the welfare state. The only stable European country that I *think* bucks this trend is France, and French politics have always been weird.
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Sep 22, 2013 18:49
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Yeah, France is weird. I just felt I should include it since that's the major country that's been going against the prevailing liberal-conservative trend in Europe.
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Sep 22, 2013 18:52
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Radical votes are basically protest votes by definition, though. If you reckon the current system is good enough, you don't vote to change it dramatically.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:31
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Badly Jester posted:
the nazis killed six million jews, seriously, gently caress them forever
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Dec 17, 2014 23:53
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Cingulate posted:I don't know how familiar you are with the German situation, but a vast majority of Germans, easily over 50 million people, was to some degree a Nazi, including millions of proletarians. Yeah, I wasn't making a serious point (I try to stay more original than "the nazis were bad"), more trying to hint at maybe the analogy I quoted was maybe not 100% waterproof and alternatives could be found that didn't help the point being made at all.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:19
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Einbauschrank posted:Who, but Varoufakis, claimed that it was a "respectable news source"? He might be excused for not knowing Böhmermann - I didn't know him before this - but he may not be excused for continuing to lie. Very bad PR management and very much fitting into the stereotype of dishonest Greeks who plunged their country and the Euro into a crisis by being a shithead liars. His best bet is that the following navel gazing by "the media" and "media experts" will distract from the fact that he lied to millions (not sure how many people watch Jauch) of people on TV. you¨re not reading the post you're quoting right, try again
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Mar 19, 2015 12:36
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(hint: when trying to smugly dismiss people as dumb, it helps not to obviously misunderstand what you're dismissing)
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Mar 19, 2015 12:38
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lol you're really invested in this, aren't you
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Mar 19, 2015 12:52
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Einbauschrank posted:I am sorry you're too dumb to recognize satire when it bites you in the rear end and felt insulted by my smugness.
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Mar 19, 2015 12:55
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i think this is a pretty important topic because you are demonstrating your inability to read english in a really hilarious manner
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Mar 19, 2015 13:09
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the answer to both is "einbauschrank" hth
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Mar 19, 2015 13:12
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Libluini posted:I know people on this forum are getting high on nuclear power like the Radioactive Man, but it is still barely better than chocking coal dust. what this is the sort of statement you're going to have to qualify
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Apr 6, 2015 13:24
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Libluini posted:This came up in the Eastern Europe thread a couple times when discussing Europe's dependance on Russian oil and what to do about it. Most people were in agreement about how being anti-nuclear is silly and backwards and makes coal plants automatically appear like some kind of evil magic spell. Also it forces you to buy oil and gas from Russia, which at least is semi-correct if taken out of context. this is really dumb and a complete mischaracterisation of the debate on nuclear energy, you realise
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Apr 6, 2015 13:38
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Torrannor posted:Shutting down coal and gas plants is important because of CO2 emissions and climate change. It's a huge deal, and we are probably already screwed, but we can try to keep the damage as low as possible. true story, the energy produced specifically at chernobyl caused about as many deaths per kilowatt hour as the average (i think) european coal plant i did the maths for this in another thread a while back, it's crazy. fukushima doesn't even register. being categorically opposed to nuclear energy is a purely reactionary policy
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Apr 6, 2015 14:07
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waitwhatno posted:How can you even calculate something like that, when there is no clear consensus on how many death Chernobyl caused? Trying to establish clear causes for cancer in a lovely and heavily polluted country like Ukraine is probably a real nightmare. i took a median estimate out of the ones i found, did the same with deaths pr. kilowatt/hr from various sources and compared it to an estimate of chernobyl's lifetime energy output. the coal plants in question were not the very "cleanest" ones, and they may have been, like, the global average rather than the european average, I can't remember. caveat that this isn't my field, and it was for a forums post so i wasn't as thorough as i would have been if i was doing it for work, but i feel pretty comfortable in basing a belief off that work. there's some forbes article that does something similar, but tries to estimate deaths pr. KWh for all major energy production methods, here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/ to be clear, this was where i started, i did investigate the sources and, to my eyes (again, this isn't my field, so I could only spot the most obvious bullshit) it all check out. i then did my own thing.
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Apr 6, 2015 15:45
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wayfinder posted:An extinction level event would cause 7 billion deaths, but these events happen on average once in 100 million years, so when you calculate the per year impact, extinction events are really less than 0.01% as deadly as measles. we should, in our policy, expend more resources towards combatting measles than preparing for an extinction event, yes, i agree
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Apr 6, 2015 15:58
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other noted heavy metals: gold, platinum, lead we should certainly abolish all these materials from our societies¨ libluini, educate yourself, this poo poo is weak. nuclear waste is A Problem, but it's a problem that's relatively easily resolved by dumping it in a mountain somewhere or putting it under roads or something. it is certainly not a problem even approaching the seriousness of those involved in basically every other means of energy production. in the end, even solar energy is unsustainable, in that they use rare elements that have to be dug out of the ground and exist in finite amounts. nobody's suggesting we switch to a thorium-based diet. petroleum is highly carcinogenic, but that is not why we want to phase it out. you're being hysterical, and you should stop that right away, because this kind of attitude is contributing to an enormous amount of permanent ecological change right now. it's too late for us to change over to a nuclear grid and have that save us from climate change, but closing down existing nuclear sites and depressing the supply of energy only makes the fossil fuel people happy. it is an objectively harmful policy.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:26
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Libluini posted:I refer back to my post about people on this forum getting high on radioactivity like the Radioactive Man. At this point I'm asking myself how many of you are delusional, or just getting money from the nuclear industry to post this poo poo. you will not have zero waste in any situation ever unless you invent a perpetual motion machine. at this point you're just denying facts and making poo poo up to sustain your point meanwhile coal and gas are increasing their share of european energy production, in part due to this idiotic attitude
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Apr 7, 2015 12:42
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to be honest i'm surprised that Die Linke has such a relatively low tolerance for dictatorship you constantly hear about them being SED throwbacks, and then they're within the margin of error of SPD. bad ostalgie commies IMO. V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 13:45
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the production of the generators, the destruction of environments, everything involves waste unless you arbitrarily cut out everything but the energy generation itself, which is extremely silly. like, you've been confronted with well-sourced arguments and good-faith explanations as to why you're wrong (and they've been far more friendly than your sort of tripe deserves) and all you have to respond is vague slogans and insinuations about waste. the main environmental problem of nuclear energy is the mining and excavation of fissile material and the construction and maintenance of the plants themselves, to which there are direct analogues in every major renewable energy source bar possibly wind. i would invite you to make a decent, scientifically grounded argument against nuclear energy that is not essentially general to energy production as such, as you have been exposed to decent, scientifically grounded arguments in its favour previously, but you won't, because you can't.
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Apr 7, 2015 16:31
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i, for my part, am getting well paid by the large nuclear lobby in norway to promote their german interests on internet message boards, i dunno about the rest of y'all
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Apr 8, 2015 00:12
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no but the alternatives are all much worse, and it isn't the insurmountable problem it is sometimes presented as
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Apr 8, 2015 16:44
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Wouldn't knowing disclosure of sensitive information to foreign agents be, well, a sign of intent?
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Apr 27, 2015 12:32
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Riso posted:Thanks for supporting the destruction of our language's readability, because that is all it is doing. Stuff like that shows feminism apparently finds no real problems anymore in our societies and should now turn their attention to the horrific treatment of women in muslim countries but I suppose that would be dangerous. riso how are you so terrible
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Apr 29, 2015 11:59
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the anti-deutsche tendency being a real thing never ceases to amaze me
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May 3, 2015 14:13
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icantfindaname posted:Why would it? Neocon opposition to the liberal / social democratic postwar order is a thing everywhere else, why not Germany? because it's so stupid and it seems to retain its leftist roots much clearer in germany than anywhere else
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May 4, 2015 08:23
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wayfinder posted:kihihi 2 shouldn't drink while pregnant
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Jun 26, 2015 11:49
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oliwan posted:There is one bad thing about living in Berlin and that is that shops, and specifically supermarkets, are closed on Sundays. Is there any city in the world of this size that just closes its poo poo on Sunday? closing things on sunday is better for just about everyone - it's saving a fairly massive social investment at the expense of a pretty marginal convenience
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Sep 30, 2018 12:48
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