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karmaconfetti posted:
They violate Schengen in fear of criminals from south-eastern Europe. The fastest - which is the only route by land - way for those to get to Denmark is through Germany. It doesn't have anything to do with Germany per se.
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Sep 30, 2011 11:15
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Plankalkuel posted:In Germany you study "Lehramt" which is basically a "Masters light". Teachers study two fields, so they can teach multiple courses, but not as extensively as a normal Masters student, the reason being probably that they don't teach all that to children anyway. The "Lehramt" degree is usually seen as a 2nd class Masters and teachers in general are not that well respected and viewed as lazy. How do you reconcile your opinion with German Gymnasium students being the best worldwide according to PISA? And with German Gymnasium teachers of sciences also being among the best worldwide? What makes you think German teachers are not respected? Because their students don't like them? StrangeRobot posted:Well, more than 50% of all students do attend the Gymnasium already right now so it's not like it's some kind of elite track for the best of the best. Well, out of all people attending grades 5 to 13, a little less than 50% attend Gymnasium, but if you want to talk about the percentage of a class of any year attending Gymnasium, which your entire argument relies upon, then it is, as one would expect, around 33%. Also, like I said above, the most recent PISA indicates that German Gymnasium students are the elite of the world. I think that is a good thing and also indicates that the selection process is mostly okay. Also, forums poster DeusEx, since you are implying you are above being the Ron Paul type (which, really has nothing to do with the Pirate party), how does it feel to mock Germans for pointing out human rights violations, something, I am sure, not even the stupid stupid young male naive whites you speak of (and belong to) would utter? KingaSlipek fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Oct 2, 2011 |
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Oct 2, 2011 14:38
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Plankalkuel posted:Most of what you quoted wasn't my opinion, but simple statements about facts or about what in my experience the general outlook is on things. Personally I don't consider teachers lazy in general, no matter where or what they teach. You were talking about Finnish teachers, those that require a "true" master's degree and such. The point of the comparison between German Gymnasium students and Finnish students in general is, not only are these students the best, they also probably have the best education available to them (in some fields). We do have better teachers than Finland when adjusting for university education. My point of contention is "No wonder, the Finnish system gets better results". And what do you mean by "naturally superior"? And what is "lovely" about having the best general school variant in the world? And we still rank pretty well, all things considered (and not just Scandinavia and Korea).And, again, if the selection process in grade 4 were faulty, then why is the Gymnasium so successful? Explain this to me, angry German! dreamin' posted:It is one of the main talking points for all the people that want to bury their heads in the sand. "If only we dismiss the results of all the people not going to Gymnasium we are at the top of the world". It's true that the Gymnasium leads to good results (students don't test better than the top students elsewhere though), but the lower schools lead to much worse results. So we are buying good results for roughly 25% of the students at the expense of the 75% who are not allowed to take part. Now if the proponents of our seperated school system would have a plan on how to actually fix this for those 75%, but nothing has been happening for the last 20 years but frantic defenses of their precious seperated Gymnasium. You people are arguing that when we select in fourth grade, we do not really consider skills but instead social background. The latter may be true, but the PISA shows that the selection per skill is working well. Since PISA mostly checks for abilities learned before fifth grade, there is no need in changing the system after the fourth grade but while still in elementary school or kindergarten. Besides, more and more people are attending Gymnasium (in percentages), and your percentage figure is, of course, wrong. A third of fourth graders get to go to the Gymnasium, and since the Gymnasium features 8-9 years of education, a little less than half of all German students at any time are Gymnasium students. But who cares about facts, right? KingaSlipek fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Oct 2, 2011 |
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Oct 2, 2011 17:40
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Plankalkuel posted:You didn't answer my question. Is that a comparison between the best Finnish and the best German students, or between all Finnish students and the best German students. In the later case that wouldn't really surprise me. How about some sources for that? It is the latter case, and I found it surprising. Sure, on average, German students fare far worse than Finnish students, but I maintain that the German school system, if your premise is the early child-education as it is, is working extremely well. The problems that arise are all due to the nature of the education of the young child before he attends fifth grade. I am saying that the selection with regards to skill is working surprisingly well (but not perfectly), but that selection with regards to social standing is not acceptable, of course.
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Oct 2, 2011 23:52
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Plankalkuel posted:Sources? And what are you on about with the bold part? How are the years of integrated school loving the children up worse, then the segregated rest? Why are you asking for sources now, when, according to you, it wouldn't surprise you? Everyone here is implicitly referring to the most recent source, namely the most recent PISA. Just read that more thoroughly and you see that Gymnasium students outperform the average Finnish and Korean student. It's not a big conspiracy secret, promise! I have done the PISA actually, and as far as I remember, and I am sure one can check for them, it is being assessed how students go about solving problems effectively, do at comprehensive reading, and perform mathematical tasks that have practical relevance. The test is in parts a bit of an IQ test, and I don't think that anything after fourth grade is crucial in bringing about these skills in students. What happens is that those are strengthened or weakened, but the PISA doesn't really test for that. Yes, there is one selection process, and that should be about skill and that works, but as you, not I, claim that process is also about social standing. And it clearly is working (although not perfectly, but no one claims that that's possible) most of the time, because, for the hundredth time, the top third of a German class constitute the top of the world. It's amazing and puzzling to me how this can't get into your head.
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Oct 3, 2011 15:08
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niethan posted:Well if you have the top third "smartest" german kids going against all finnish kids, cause the finns aren't segregated at school, then it's not really fair is it? Mind the context. And that is the selection process and the question whether it works. Of course, the top third of Finnish and Korean students probably outperform Gymnasium students, though I can't be sure.
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Oct 3, 2011 15:34
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Plankalkuel posted:Well I asked you, if the German Gymnasium students were significantly better, then the equivalent ratio of Finnish students. It may be a misunderstanding, but I thought, that you said that was the case. For that I would like sources. I don't need sources, to know, that the top tier of a segregated school system performs better, then the average of a integrated system. You have not read any PISA document. If you had, you would stop spouting the "segregated school" nonsense. Our school system promises that those that attend Gymnasium are really the best we have to offer and that the lowest tier attends Hauptschule This is largely true, as evidenced by PISA. This is my entire point right there, and easy to check if you actually cared to read what PISA found out. I haven't stated anything beyond that that is in any opposition to what you have written. You are confusing this issue by strawmanning. You are saying that because some people, though qualified, don't get to go to a Gymnasium, the entire system is flawed. It is not perfect, nothing is. And, more importantly, no one claims it is. And there are many naturalized Germans, immigrant Germans and just plain Germans being treated unfairly. Of course that needs to be changed, but you are turning this into an issue of racism and class so as if the entire education system is built around "keeping it German". Just look at the DeusEx moron. You are caught up in assumptions about people not readily admitting that the system needs to undergo change. The only conclusion to draw is that our system is not inherently flawed, especially when it is up to teachers/parents to decide where their children go to school. Also: Really, really stop using commas like you would when talking in German. I am not trying to be mean to you, but it really disturbs the flow when reading your otherwise well-written posts.
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Oct 3, 2011 20:37
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Einbauschrank posted:I think this varies greatly depending on subject. Teachers of mathematics really really own around here. English teachers not so much.
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Oct 3, 2011 20:39
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DeusEx posted:
The system illustrates the shortcomings of the years before, namely elemntary school and kindergarten education. That system is inherently flawed but separate from the school system that follows. In other words, I lay blame on something else. You won't improve general education without reforming early child education.
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Oct 3, 2011 21:29
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DeusEx posted:So what would you propose for primary school, so that the following segregation wouldn't fall so conveniently in line with race/class divisions? Uhh, we are in Germany. Everyone is racist, so there is no way out of that. I don't delude myself into thinking that you are asking this out of real curiosity, (after all, I am a forums poster) but to put me in a corner because I don't subscribe to your left-wing hysteria. It doesn't really matter what I would propose, as it is irrelevant to the discussion, but if you must know: Rule out any traces of "racism" by handing out the grades without their attached names to teachers not involved with that child and then let those teachers decide on the child's future education. This is still not a fool-proof solution, in fact it isn't helping a whole lot, but it removes a large chunk of unfairness in the selection process. Likewise, we could let a computer decide. And then only hand out recommendations for the absolute best and absolute worst, and generally let the parents be the ultimate decision makers, without pressure being applied to them.
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Oct 3, 2011 21:57
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There is no Rostocker Rundschau =-(
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Dec 7, 2011 17:32
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ArchangeI posted:It would make for a nice alliteration title, though. And the Osteseezeitung or the Norddeutsche Neuste Nachrichten are not exactly known for their indepth reporting on international issues, either. That's what I get for making an offhand joke.! (Are you from there or what? Besides, NNN is already the perfect alliteration)
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Dec 8, 2011 16:35
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botany posted:Raab was the what now? Are we talking about the guy who three loving times tried to convince Steinbrück to go for a great coalition? The guy who's first question was, "Frau Merkel, aren't you really a bit too leftist for your own party?" Because that's the guy I saw and I wanted very badly to slap him through the TV. I think Raab was alluding to the negligible difference between CDU and SPD and not necessarily saying she was leftist (as if the SPD were a left-wing party..).
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Sep 3, 2013 14:45
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Spin And Speed posted:Not giving an answer is an answer in itself. Super, freut mich, dass du so eine gute Wahlentscheidung getroffen hast 
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Dec 23, 2021 11:00
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Spin And Speed posted:First post in this thread for 8 years? I feel honoured Was ist denn passiert, dass du cranky aufwachtest?
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Dec 23, 2021 11:44
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SAS hat Bernhardt letzte Nacht in Wismar weggemacht und heute morgen gemerkt, dass des Präserv riss
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Dec 23, 2021 11:52
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Simply Simon posted:The entire expat community of this thread has tried to figure out wtf you mean with no avail. Explain yourself Bin auf deinen Kommentar eingegangen, sein Gemächt wäre abgenutzt worden und tja, vielleicht war ja die böse Putinversteherin Bernhardt schuld, warum sollte SAS sonst so einen Quark posten? Interessant ist übrigens, dass Bernhardt und Gysi beide fast Wort für Wort identisch argumentieren bei der Unrechtsfrage. Ist schon peinlich, ändert aber nichts daran, dass die Linke eher in der Regierung sein sollte als die FDP.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:25
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Beide Stränge von Nord Stream 1 wurden zerstört, aber nur einer von NS 2. Soweit ich weiß bedeutet das, NS1 ist nicht mehr verwendbar, NS2 aber schon. Cui bono? Ich frag ja nur!
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Oct 2, 2022 20:07
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| # ¿ May 4, 2024 07:42 |
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Bedshaped posted:It's funny how the greens abandoning all their principles and completely selling out when in coalition could possibly be seen in a positive light by their apparent supporters. There seems to be a serious contagion of what I'm dubbing politics autism in this country Bist salzig wegen der Ukraine?
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Oct 10, 2022 20:40
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