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DeusEx posted:The Balkans are bit tricky indeed. Generally the Balkans are referred to as south-eastern Europe, which already has bit of a more negative connotation than just eastern Europe. South-Eastern Europe often evokes association of "Gypsies", though of course no one would openly admit to it. I think people from the Balkans have a much worse reputation in Austria (where they're actually a sizable minority) than in Germany. The only time I noticed a significant negative sentiment was we accepted refugees from Kosovo and then they started stabbing people. You're right about the German smugness when it comes to nations that haven't confronted their war crimes. Concerning the German school system: I grew up in one of the conservative (aka good education score) states and trust me, the only injustice that happens is too many dumb kids getting Gymnasium recommendations. Some people just aren't meant for academic work and unlike in the States, where every gardener boasts some pointless college degree, doing an apprenticeship instead isn't a social stigma here. That said, I can't wait to move to Edinburgh for my masters.
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Oct 2, 2011 10:14
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elwood posted:I went to Realschule even though I was strongly advised to go to a Gymnasium. All my friends went to the Realschule and my parents didn't mind me joining them. I changed after 10th grade and it wasn't really a problem. The only thing that I'm missing is a Latinum, but who really cares about that. Oh, I thought fascist society shunned you after it determined your future social class in 4th grade. Guess those meddling LF posters tricked me again. Getting an Abitur isn't a major hurdle unless you're extremely lethargic or simply not very smart. The Abitur is officially the certificate that says you're educated enough to attend university. Since university education is virtually free over here, I think it's in society's best interest not to let super lethargic or dumb people participate. The real problem with Germany's education system is the idiotic refusal to make "Ganztagsschulen" the standard. That's far more harmful to children of poorer or single parents than the 3-tiered System.
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Oct 2, 2011 21:38
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StrangeRobot posted:There is pretty much indication that the tracking system is horribly ineffective (see: reality) but I guess we could argue about that ad infinitum. Instead why don't you tell us what you think would be effective reforms and how those would establish the fabled equality of opportunity. Sounds like a well balanced piece, clearly relevant to the discussion. Entitled rich kids usually went to private schools where I'm from. I held a workshop at an inner-city Gymnasium in Frankfurt as part of an internship and more than half of the students had a foreign background, so watching Gymnasium students portrayed as the offspring of lawyers, managers and the nobility was quite funny. There's a large discrepancy in how well Germany's school system performs depending on which state you're testing. I seriously hope you and the other QQing posters grew up in notoriously bad states such as Hamburg, Bremen or NRW. Otherwise I have to question whether you're genuinely outraged or just bitching about poo poo for ideological reasons.
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Oct 3, 2011 17:36
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DeusEx posted:I wonder if the proponents of the ranked school system would still be in favor of it, if one would abandon the recommendations at the end of primary school, and would segregate strictly on a standardized test (something like the SAT in the US for college admissions). For every Karl-Hubertus that happens to, there will be 5 children stuck in Realschule with no chance of switching later because their parents wouldn't or couldn't help them prepare for those tests. Hilarious idea, you sure woulda showed them! 
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Oct 3, 2011 18:30
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DeusEx posted:Well, it would be based on merit. Each to his/her own ability. Also these tests could be designed to be of a rather abstract nature, where preparation would do little to influence results. It would still seem fairer to me, than subjective "recommendations". After all it's your faction that argues it should be all about merit and ability, right? I don't have a faction, I'm merely a pragmatist. Implementing the all-day school everywhere, getting the crap states like Hamburg to change their curriculum to that of Bavaria or BW, and investing in high quality teachers are more pressing and manageable issues than a complete overhaul of the 3-tiered system (which works quite well in some states). Standardized tests are a loving joke at that age. e: Class size is another major problem which will keep us from getting to Finland's level, but I guess that's not something you can solve quickly or without loads of money. Paul Pot fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 3, 2011 |
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Oct 3, 2011 19:11
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DerDestroyer posted:Starting to wish I actually applied for that one job in München that matched my qualifications perfectly. Düsseldorf is a very nice place if you avoid the bad areas (they're pretty bad). Both are among the richest cities in Germany. Düsseldorf might be a little more international and Bavaria in general is a love/hate thing for most people. BW, Bavaria and Saxony are the highest scoring states. NRW used to be at the bottom, but apparently they've since improved to mediocre. Hamburg is one of the nicest cities in Germany, so just because the education is poo poo doesn't mean it's a bad place to live.
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Oct 3, 2011 21:15
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StrangeRobot posted:You southerners sure come off as insecure with your creepy worship of rankings, germanness, wealth and the economy. Are there no other things of value in your tight-assed lives? I just told an American not to worry about education rankings when determining how nice an area is. Perhaps you should stick to a German-language website until your reading comprehension improves.
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Oct 3, 2011 21:54
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StrangeRobot posted:True, after you shat several times on the northern education systems and demanded we adapt your retarded southern system of rote memorisation because it scored higher in whatever rankings. Saying that our city is nice despite us being uneducated retards compared to you bavarian demigods also isn't quite what I would call absence of a competitiveness-obsessed mindset. What exactly are you trying to say? We shouldn't be competitive when it comes to education? I believe most parents would disagree. On average you'll be better prepared for college if you went to a school in Bavaria as opposed to one in Hamburg. I wouldn't want to be treated by a doctor with bad memorization skills. You may continue to call me a demigod, but I resent being called Bavarian.
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Oct 3, 2011 23:23
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Baronjutter posted:I used to think germany was pretty cool, but it's probably only berlin. Germany is really sounding like the US of europe. It's the biggest economy but it's full of right wing religious folk with awful blame-the-victim racism and a "that's just extreme left propaganda!" to any social or economic development since the 70's. 
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Oct 5, 2011 00:03
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I believe there's still a market for skilled 1st world factory labor, you just have to find the right niche. Infineon manufacturing chips in Germany doesn't make sense to me, luxury vehicles made in Germany does. I don't think German luxury cars (I'm counting "Volkswagens" like the Passat as well) are getting outsourced more than they did 10 years ago simply because consumers noticed the quality going down and that started to hurt the brands (Mercedes being the worst offender). The exception are SUVs since the US are by far the largest market and Americans are notoriously dense consumers anyway. Most people don't buy a luxury sedan solely to show off, they at least appreciate the fact that it was built by people whose dictionary contains a word like "Spaltmaß" as opposed to having it built by Bill & Bob or Jesus & Carlos who spent most of their careers sticking random oddly fitting pieces of plastic in a Chevy dashboard and calling it an interior.
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Oct 13, 2011 23:25
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Car derail: They've always been outdated poo poo compared to the European model, but that's why I singled out American consumers as being particularly dense. An American will willingly choose a similarly powered 5 year old oversized V6/V8 engine over a high tech state of the art alternative that consumes 50% less petrol to avoid paying "premium" at the gas station. He also won't know how a quality interior is supposed to look like, not to mention buy a big rear end petrol-binging truck that offers less torque because diesel is "smelly". BMW has gone from manufacturing the Z3 in the US to building their newer models like the 1-series, Z4 and X1 in Germany. I'm sure that would've been cheaper to do so in Romania.
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Oct 14, 2011 00:28
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