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quote:I couldn't really comment on if it will be reversed, however it seems like they are purchasing a lot of nuclear generated power from other countries like France and somewhere in Eastern Europe. Germany has exported electricity for much of the last few years, including the recent months where the NPPs were off the net. The biggest problem is getting the electricity that is produced to every corner of the country without placing powerlines on every free square inch. quote:How likely is it that Germany will keep to its plans to shut down all of its nuclear power stations? I read a analysis somewhere that this decision was made in the expectation it could be reversed later when anti-nuclear feelings had died down a bit. I highly doubt that the Exit from the Exit from the Exit from the Exit could be made without sparking an armed revolution. Merkel's move to extend the life of NPPs was met with widespread criticism, especially since it included provisions that would have made it difficult to reverse this decision if they lost an election later on and a new government came into power. Basically a giant middle finger to the Greens. Then Fukushima happened, and the conservatives realized that there is a whopping 70 or so % of the population that want out of the nuclear power production. Opposing them is not a recipe for success, and so they ate the poo poo sandwich and repealled their own decision which they had made difficult (read: expensive) to repeal. Karma at work. ArchangeI fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 11:59
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DerDestroyer posted:What is Deutsche Bahn like now that it's been privatized? How has it changed since its public days? They have trouble with the weather. If its cold and snows (i.e. winter), no trains run because the switches are frozen. If its hot and sunny (i.e. summer), the AC fails and the trains run hot (50°+C). I think their biggest problem is that the trains don't run exactly on time, and, well, we do have a bit of a reputation to maintain in that regard. "Deutsche Bahn: We get you there. Eventually."
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Oct 1, 2011 12:01
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DeusEx posted:I wonder if the proponents of the ranked school system would still be in favor of it, if one would abandon the recommendations at the end of primary school, and would segregate strictly on a standardized test (something like the SAT in the US for college admissions). Two weeks after that system was implemented, you would be in here complaining how it cements the status quo because only the middle and upper class have the money to send little Karl-Hubertus to take remidal lessons. Remidal lessons (Nachhilfe) is already a big industry, and would only flourish more under that system, no matter how much money you pump into schools. I mean, it fucks over the poor good and proper, so I'm sure the FDP and the CDU would happily run with it.
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Oct 3, 2011 18:37
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DerDestroyer posted:What's wrong with education in NRW? I'm asking because I'll be living in Dusseldorf and it seems like a pretty nice place so I'm not sure why you guys lump up Hamburg, NRW etc into the "poo poo state" group. I mean isn't Northern Germany supposed to be rich and developed compared to the south? Or is this one of those regional biases where one side will always say they are better than the other? I think you are confusing us with Italy (its cool, we fought WWII together!). The southern states of Germany are by and large the richer ones. Compare, for example, Bavaria with Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (not entirely fair, because MV had 40 years of communism and was never an industrial powerhouse in the first place).
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Oct 3, 2011 19:43
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This is just in: Civil war about to break out in Germany over school system, Bavaria declaring "Gymnasiums or Death!" Seriously guys...some of you make it sound like you need an Ariernachweis to amount to anything in this country.
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Oct 3, 2011 23:22
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Baronjutter posted:I used to think germany was pretty cool, but it's probably only berlin. Germany is really sounding like the US of europe. It's the biggest economy but it's full of right wing religious folk with awful blame-the-victim racism and a "that's just extreme left propaganda!" to any social or economic development since the 70's. Our current head of government is a christian woman with a Phd. in physics, the head of her coalition partner - the foreign minister - is openly gay and married to his partner. Yup, we are exactly like the US, all right wing reactionary christian fundamentalism here.
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Oct 4, 2011 21:19
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DeusEx posted:
The historic fact still stands that there has never been a successfull marriage between socialism and democracy. And frankly, having spent most of my youth in the imediate aftermath of the GDR, and having heard all the little stories about how the glorious socialist system made life hell for people who were not 100% on line, I do consider socialism, as it was practised in the GDR, to be Evil with a capital E. Funnily enough, this does not mean I am a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism.
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Oct 6, 2011 12:18
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quote:Hi German goons, I'd like for you to give me an objective opinion about an article I read in Foreign Affairs about Germany's recent rise to becoming an economic jugernaut, and Agenda 2010's impact on that. I realize most goons are overwhelmingly liberal so I am not sure if this will be possible, but we'll see what happens. Liberals in the American or in the European sense? Because the Agenda 2010 was widely seen as an outburst of However, I do agree with DeusEx (you are off the party line, comerade!) that it was necessary to make a deep seated reform of the welfare system, and it certainly did help our competitiveness. However, it was a very bitter pill to swallow for many. In many ways, it was a Nixon going to China sort of thing - had the current government tried to implement something like that, the opposition would have cried bloody murder. As others have already said, it did create a great range of, frankly, unethical situations by basically reducing welfare to the point where you have to work to sustain even the most modest standard of living. Hartz IV (the last stage of a program to reform unemployment benefits and reemployment measures, now synonymous for the basic welfare) pays enough for food and shelter, and that is it. It has something like 60 cents per month for discretionary spending on cultural endevours (going to the movies). It is barely enough to get by as an healthy, childless adult - anything else will have problems. The problem with programs that try to encourage work is that there have to be free jobs to begin with. Many of the people in Hartz IV are people with few or no marketable skills, and like the article said - Germany runs on being innovative and producing highly specialized components and machinery. You need engineers for that (and we have a shortage of them), not unskilled workers. Which ties us back to the school system we already discussed. On the other hand, it certainly beats having to participate in a race to the bottom as far as wages are concerned. Finally, the jugernaut is not percieved as such by the German population. Being second place on the export-o-meter was mostly seen as a relative decline in power (which it was). But Germans are a fearful people anyway - the lower class is afraid that the money won't last to the end of the month, the middle class is afraid that they will lose their jobs and become part of the lower class, the upper class is afraid of another economic breakdown forcing them to become part of the middle class. The economic strength does not come with a feeling of it, rather with a feeling of extreme economic vulnerability. Sooner or later the growth in China will level off, and then we are hosed good and proper. Or the US defaults on its debts. Or we hit peak oil or whatever. A heavy export-oriented economy is not necessarily a very stable economy, and for many Germans, stability is preferable to overall wealth (which is why managers have such a bad reputation here).
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Oct 8, 2011 20:54
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If you read the article again you will note that the reason for Germany's success wasn't lowering wages to the point where it could compete with China but the ability to innovate and produce much needed, complicated components. Slaves make poor engineers.
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Oct 9, 2011 12:33
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V. Illych L. posted:Your post reads like the reactionary rot it is. From equating socialism to racism, calling the DDR the "Second" German dictatorship (seriously, how loving incredibly ignorant do you have to be for that) to insisting that Die Linke is literally the SED, your post is full of absurdities and tripe. You are adorable.
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Oct 10, 2011 11:33
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DeusEx posted:You can of course still lock up someone for life, if they are diagnosed as a constantly dangerous menace to society, but they have to be transferred to a closed facility that isn't a prison, once they have served their penal sentence. In such a closed facility they would have to have much more freedoms, than in the heavy regulated world of a prison. No, I think the main problem pretty much was what hankor described. What happened was that someone would rape a child to death and get sentenced accordingly. Then a judge would review the case some time later and decide that this sick fucker won't get to see the light of day ever again. Effectively this meant that he was sentenced twice for the same crime, which is a big no-no in every civilized country (and against the constitution as well). If I understand it right, Sicherheitsverwahrung must now be part of the initial sentence. Either way, perhaps we should wind down the "Is the Left the second coming of Stalin or is it the light that will guide us to a better future"-discussion and focus on the fact that, apparently, our dear government has decided to be stupid again. This has all the hallmarks of a major scandal. We are talking ministers fired at a minimum, and it comes at a time where the current government is weak. Might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Plus it would be a chance for the FDP to pretend to care about civil and constitutional rights again. If they smell blood in the water and try to push that angle (instead of cutting taxes), they might decide to end the coalition in the hopes of doing better in an early election.
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Oct 11, 2011 13:50
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Boiled Water posted:How was supermarkets in the DDR? There were no supermarkets in the DDR. You had your Konsum, which sold a lot of things (if they had them, which they didn't), and otherwise you went to bakeries, butchers etc. to get whatever. Now, if you had evil imperialist money from your relatives in the BRD (or Lenin forbid, you actually were from there), you could shop in the Intershop, which sold luxury (i.e. western) goods. If you didn't you could buy them at exorbitant prices in special stores. Seriously, food was not much of a problem in the DDR (except for some spell in the 70ies, I think, where they actually prepared to use food stamps again). Neither was alcohol. Everything else - from bananas over cloths to building material and cars - was in short supply. They had a minor crisis when there was a coffee shortage. Since the economy was state directed, you could go for months without getting <x> in your town, before a shippment arrived. You would then queue for <x>, whether you needed it or not, because you could always exchange it for something useful.
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Oct 12, 2011 18:05
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DerDestroyer posted:Banning the sale of said product within the country unless it's made in the country with workers hired from within the country. Or adding a levy for every profit made on a product built outside the country. Welcome to the 17th century. You are proposing mercantilism in its purest form.
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Oct 13, 2011 15:22
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Grendels Dad posted:This thread has been very quiet for the last couple of weeks, surprisingly. I was hoping some of you fine gentlemen could point me to some information about the Right Terror that has been the focus of discussion for a while now. I feel like I didn't pay attention for a minute, and the next thing I know there is a Neo-Nazi terrorist network making the news and talks about outlawing the NPD again. The SPIEGEL has a decent writeup: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,797569,00.html But yeah, the whole thing came a bit as a bolt from the blue, so to speak. At least the domestic intelligence services seem to have grossly underestimated the right wing extremist scene. Even uglier are the implications that the same services might have known about the cell well in advance or may even have covered them. The NPD thing, I believe, is more because the party has changed its strategy away from being ultra-extremist to at least appearing somewhat mainstream - they are no longer running around with quite as many Imperial German Flags and more with Federal German Flags, for example. And they managed to retain their seats in at least one of the state parliaments (here in MV, go figure), so there is fear that they may become a fixture in the German political spectrum. The involvement of the domestic intelligence service and the ideological component aside, I see no connection between the NPD and the NSU.
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Nov 19, 2011 16:43
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Ententod posted:V-männer are neonazis who get paid for passing on information to the Verfassungsschutz. There's evidence quite a few of them only join the program to collect a paycheck from the government while still supporting the NPD, in some cases with the very money they earn from being V-männer. So it's highly unlikely all of them would just up and leave. This is important. V-männer are not goverment spies inserted into an organization, they were in the organization in the first place and call their handler once a month to tell them what is going on.
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Nov 20, 2011 12:39
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Ententod posted:All V-Männer are government spies on paper, while also being Nazis. :iamafag: Since too many of the accused turned out to be on Verfassungsschutz payroll, the court appearantly found it difficult to assess who had acted on what motivation, and closed the proceedings. At least, that's how I understood it. That was pretty much it. I see where you are coming from, but on the other hand, the government practically bribing half the leadership of a party to make extremist statements is also a possible way of interpretating it. Banning a party in a democracy should always be done on absolutely watertight evidence. quote:I'm also dumbfounded the media in this country is getting away with the term "Döner-Morde". As I understand it, most if not all of the murders happened to Döner cooks. Naming them after the connecting element seems reasonable - would you prefer the term "Türkenmorde"?
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Nov 20, 2011 16:59
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Cjones posted:Are there enough French goons to warrant a France thread? We will invade  But I for one would love to know more about developments in France, since most of the German political/ecomomic scene is sort of staring wild-eyed at France, hoping that you guys hold out and don't have to be rescued as well. Because if you do...Seriously, "Döner-opfer"? Outside of BILD? And no one read that and went "Hang on, that's a stupid way of calling murder victims"? It sounded reasonable to call them Dönermorde when I thought that being döner cooks was the connecting element, but calling the victims Döneropfer is such a tremendously terrible idea.
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Nov 20, 2011 22:38
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ZeitGeits posted:Yeah, two of them killed a cop and severly injured her partner and stole their weapons. For the longest time the police was searching for a phantom. DNA evidence left behind on the scene was matched to DNA left on scenes all over Germany. Hence, the "Phantom" was born. Turns out, the phantom was an employee at the company that produced the cotton swabs that were used to pick up the DNA traces And they only realized that when someone asked the obvious question: Why the gently caress would a cold-blooded killer and bank robber start breaking into garden shacks? quote:Anyhow, when the terrorist duo commited suicide and their partner blew up their apartment to destroy all evidence they found the weapons of the cops in the rubble (or maybe in the caravan?). They found the weapon in the caravan, but, yeah. ZEIT Online has a writeup, unfortunately in German only: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2011-11/neonazi-trio-kiesewetter Apprently, the step father of the murdered policewoman rented out his pub to the woman now charged with conspiracy. She used it to hold meetings in the neo-nazi scene while the cop lived upstairs. Now they are speculating that the father pissed them off somehow and they shot the cop to make a point. Even more facepalm-worthy: Apparently, the trio got its new identities by filling out the correct forms. They had a supporter hand in an application for a passport with a new name and a photo showing one of the men undercover. It was approved. Really shows you why all these fancy new biometric identification measures are really necessary, right?
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Nov 22, 2011 16:21
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Its funny that "collapsing slower than the rest" is the new "booming". Or maybe depressing, I get the two confused all the time.
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Nov 23, 2011 18:09
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One would assume that Neues Deutschland (the old official GDR paper) does better in the East...
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Nov 23, 2011 21:58
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I bet he is already regretting his explanation for why he All any opposing candidate has to ask is if he thinks being a minister/chancellor would be less stressful than writing a thesis, or if he wants to divorce his wife  ?
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Nov 25, 2011 02:11
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goethe42 posted:No wonder, no one really gives a poo poo if he cheated on his dissertation except for those people that have to write their own and are envious that the minister post and the "von" doesn't come with it for free. Yes, being chancellor is in no way a high demand job, and the only qualification is being a swell dude. Günter Jauch/Thomas Gottschalk 2013!
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Nov 25, 2011 23:39
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I see that we at least all agree that if he is evil, he is no evil genius.
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Nov 27, 2011 21:33
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hankor posted:
And if they aren't and still do it, effectively milking the company dry before it crashes and burns? Or if they stay competetitive by lowering wages of their workers and/or laying them off while maintaining (or even raising) the high wages of their top managers? quote:How can anybody justify that suddenly that nice 8 million paycheck is reduced to 250k, 1 Million, 4 million,on what factual basis? There is no overwhelming public reason that justifies it. At least for bank managers, I would support prohibitive taxes for boni to help fund the next round of bailouts brought about by their greed. I think even you would agree with me that many high ranking bankers have displayed gross misjudgment during the lead up to the crisis, motivated at least in part by their desire to score higher boni. That is fine, but I believe that if these same banks then appeal to the state to save them, there is a significant public reason to ensure that the state can deal with the next crisis brought about by this behaviour.
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Dec 3, 2011 22:53
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Previously on GBS posted:Helmut Schmidt 2013! Would vote for him unironically. Too bad a second stay as chancellor would probably kill him.
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Dec 4, 2011 17:44
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hankor posted:Schmidt is pretty much the most amazing person to ever go into politics even if I hate his wife with a passion. I shudder to think what would happen if Merkel or Schröder should have to manage a situation like the fall of 1977. Also, you hated his wife. Past tense.
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Dec 4, 2011 21:38
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ZeitGeits posted:Exactly. If you have followed the coverage of the Euro crisis you might have noticed it's not exactly clear what SPON's opinion is on the whole debacle. That's because they pretty much have all of them, sometimes even on the same day. I don't think they try to be neutral, mind you. Instead they post as many populist pieces as they possibly can in order to garner the most attention. The ZEIT does much the same, but at least calls them Editorials and puts them side by side. The comment section on both sites are about equally bad, though.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:36
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KingaSlipek posted:There is no Rostocker Rundschau =-( It would make for a nice alliteration title, though. And the Osteseezeitung or the Norddeutsche Neuste Nachrichten are not exactly known for their indepth reporting on international issues, either.
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Dec 8, 2011 13:11
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I'm completely numb concerning anything Wullf-related, I get my Greece-fix from the Bunga Bunga in Brussels thread and S21...well...we've kinda chewed through everything remotely discussable about that, the only thing that is new now is that the thing is actually starting to happen. Yeah, Wulf is pretty much just a trainwreck now. There is nothing you can do to stop it, only watch in mute horror. Also no one wants to be had for insulting the head of state 
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Feb 16, 2012 22:44
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This Jacket Is Me posted:Uh can someone give a quick history of what just happened? Turns out that handing out political favors in exchange for presents (cheap loans, free hotel stays etc.) is not a good idea if you want to become President. Basically there was evidence that Wulf engaged in some very shady dealings while he was still Prime Minister (Governor) of Lower Saxony. Eventually the evidence grew strong enough that the prosecution formally asked parliament to renounce Wulf's immunity. That was pretty much unprecedented in German history, and Wulf found the last remaining bit of integrity he had left (or was told by Angie to  ) and resigned.Seeing how they are looking to get a common candidate, I guess Gauck might get the nod after all.
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Feb 17, 2012 12:45
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raf posted:In my opinion the real question is: do we in this day and age still have someone who could fill in this post? It's a question of what Germany and the German people is as well as what they strife to be. Maybe it is time to just face the facts and admit that no single person can represent this country as a whole, diverse as it is. Maybe the time for merely representional offices has passed. Maybe the Federal Republic of Germany should finally become a Republic. So we should just lower the standards we have for our politicians? This wasn't a failure of the office or the man in that office, it was the failure of the man. It would have been a problem in any other political office he could have been in.
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Feb 17, 2012 14:51
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I am sure you have extensive sources to back that up, since the wikipedia article you posted says nothing of that sort. That a Christian pastor in his seventies, who had deep insights into what state socialism looks like both from his personal experience in East Germany and from his work with the Stasi-Files isn't exactly the most left-wing should surprise no one.
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Feb 20, 2012 17:20
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Decius posted:As DominoDancing said most of it is in German, so it might take a few days until the more critical stuff is translated, if any blog or newspaper in the English speaking world cares enough. Hilarious. Gauck gets a bunch of awards from small scale associations, some of which also gave awards to FDP Members. I mean, look at these hardcore neo liberal demagogues: Uschi Glas, Sabine Christiansen, Dagmar Berghoff (For non-Deutschgoons: An actress, a news anchor and a talkshow host). Seriously, that's it. He accepted awards that have been given to FDP-Members. Thats how that article constructs him as neo-liberal. quote:his rather dismissive attitude concerning various online monitoring systems: Where is he dismissive? He seems to be criticizing those parts of the left that blindly cheer blatant breaking of the law - in this case, releasing the stolen diplomatic cables. Some say it was justified, he obviously disagrees. Then he demands that the government openly declares what their anti-terror measures actually do, and that any new law is constitutional, carefully weighning security against civil rights. Clearly not something you want a person who is charged with upholding the constitution to do! Could have lived without his comment about nude scanners, though. Gauck on a nude beach is an image I could have done without, but whatever. quote:about Sarrazin's book (though he didn't read it and disagrees with the absurd genetic theories of Sarrazin): Does not seem to understand the ideas and goals of OWS or the international money markets. Guess that makes him ill-suited to run for finance minister. Claiming that "Banks were occupied" in the DDR is pretty  , yeah.quote:Against stopping S21: http://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.appell-an-die-politiker-joachim-gauck-gegen-baustopp.fdf2cdd3-1cc6-40b7-aea4-254e8522068c.html Another instance of "Discussion is awesome, I just disagree with you". Basically, the entire process of planning and permission for S21 was already finished when the people of Stuttgart (and not even a majority, see the referendum) decided that no, they didn't want it after all. That is not a way of doing business - what if they had decided it a few months later, when the construction work was half way done? quote:For surveillance of "Die Linken": http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2012-02/22748618-neues-deutschland-gauck-bleibt-fuer-die-linke-nicht-waehlbar-007.htm Man oppressed and spied on by single party dictatorship wary of successors of said party. Stop the presses. Counter points (also in German): http://www.cicero.de/berliner-republik/wie-das-netz-den-boesen-gauck-erfand/48369?seite=1 Still waiting for the Pro-Iraq war statements. quote:As said, he is a intelligent man, surely not a bad president (since he doesn't really have to do anything anyway), but his support by the left is rather puzzling if you consider his stances. Yes, it is very puzzling that they would want somebody who wishes to harness an open debate about the problems facing the country instead of someone blindly following the party line. Nothing I have read about him - especially in the articles you posted - has painted him as anything but a man who wants to live in a country where the citizens give two halves of a gently caress about what happens in politics. And considering the vote turnouts in some areas, that is perhaps one of the biggest problems we face.
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Feb 21, 2012 15:58
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DominoDancing posted:I'm not sure it has? I'm pretty conviced that despite some political disagreements (some of which have been blown out of proportion, some not so so much), large parts of both SPD and Greens do actually value Gauck, at least for his work on the Stasi archives. Remember, neither SPD nor Greens were under any obligation to nominate him a second time, and since Merkel didn't want him as a candidate at all, there would have been no danger of him getting nominated against the wishes of SPD/Greens. Non-idiotic mean he finally acknowledged that all these dirty foreigners aren't gonna leave. A huge leap forward for a CDU politician, to be sure.
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Feb 21, 2012 18:47
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StrangeRobot posted:You convenietly left out all the FDP and CDU politicians who are also mentioned in the article. I did not. I just did not mention them by name. It was more of an example to what huge array of people those awards have been given to. And I fail to see how accepting an award from a small NGO that has also been given to FDP politicians makes you neo-liberal, anyway. quote:Also, regarding the soon to be president, 'freedom' and 'individual responsibility' is neo-liberal code for 'Abolish the welfare state!'(the 'freedom' to starve and the 'individual responsibility' of being born into poverty). I guess one could say Die Linke is against freedom, then. I knew it. Yes, yes, I know that "Free to be responsible" is one of Westerwelle's favorite sayings. That does not mean that anyone who uses the words freedom and responsibility is a neo-liberal hack who wants to see people starving in the streets. Gauck is a Lutheran pastor for gently caress's sake, you honestly believe he thinks helping the poor is a terrible idea?
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Feb 21, 2012 22:29
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niethan posted:Let's not pretend as if the NSDAP would ever be going anywhere. Yes, we are all so close to be overcome by our genetic naziness. Once someone calls himself Führer, we Germans simply can't not vote for him! that is what makes the NPD so dangerous! Every second Apfel could make a televised speech calling himself the f-word, and before you know it, we will have invaded France. Again. Call me back when the NPD reliably gets double digit results in federal elections.
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Mar 27, 2012 18:39
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Orange Devil posted:NSDAP had 2.6% of the vote in 1928. Things can change very very rapidly. All that was needed back then was a global economic meltdown. How's the Eurozone doing again? To say that the Great Depression was the one and only reason for the rise of Hitler is incredibly stupid. It was a reason. Others include (from the top of my head): - Being forced to pay crippling reparations for losing a war - believing that said war was not really lost on the battlefield and also not our fault in the first place - the formerly widely respected military being neutered and humiliated by peace treaty - the Kaiser abdicating just in time to place this mess solely in the hands of the new republic - a constitution that placed too much power in the hands of the executive, which was run mostly by bureaucrats taken over from the old imperial bureaucracy - every major political party (notable exceptions being the SPD and the DDP) continuing the system from the Empire where parties represented particular groups and only looked out for their interest rather than govern the country, leading to coalitions breaking apart over the smallest things - except for the parties named, every other party did not support the constitution and/or wanted some form of (counter-)revolutionary change - an active and sizable communist party, which launched several uprisings And guess what? None of those are present now. The chance of a Nazi resurgence in the present political climate are as close to zero as anything can ever be in human society. To claim that the NPD presents a clear and present threat to the survival of democratic society in Germany is the same as saying that Iran is about to land on the US East Coast. Hence my comment about us all being unknowing sleeper agents for the Nazis, because that is literally the only way the NPD is going to get to power.
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Mar 27, 2012 20:52
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At this point, the FDP has to count it as a major victory that they are even in the Landtag.
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May 8, 2012 12:13
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Ententod posted:I just checked the show out on YT, had to turn it off cause I couldn't take Lauer anymore. Just because there's one German politician who looks sophisticated just by sitting around and smoking doesn't mean that dumbass should imitate him. The pirates could establish a new style of politics. I mean, their base message is the one every single party in parliament should have (control the Government, make sure it isn't doing poo poo its not supposed to) but which they usually don't take as seriously as they should. They could also pioneer new forms of allowing the public to participate in policymaking, which is probably one of the reasons for the Politikverdrossenheit - people have given up the idea that they can actually effect any change in Government or Parliament policies. Of course, that would require them to sit down and get to loving work. And why do that when you can just sit back and watch the rest of the political parties flail around and complain if they hit you in the process.
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May 8, 2012 21:10
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hankor posted:How would direct influence of the people in policymaking work anyway? If we had Volksentscheide and Bürgerbegehren that actually mean anything on a federal level we wouldn't have the Euro and we would've killed ourself with austerity measures and an even bigger credit crunch during the crisis. Well if you follow that logic enlighted despotism is the only real workable system of government. I guess at some point you just have to assume that citizens in a democracy are able to make rational decision if they are informed about the pros and cons of an issue via an open dialogue in the press and in statements from politicians. If you don't think citizens can make rational decisions, it would be wrong to give them the right to vote on anything, including parliamentary elections. Why would and should people be able to make a rational choice every 4-5 years but not in day to day politics? It should be noted that every Volksentscheid started by extremist parties in the Weimar Republic was defeated, as was the revision of Stuttgart 21. Besides, it need not necessary be binding Volksentscheide, even simple Volksbefragungen would be a step up. If 60%+ of the population oppose a measure, politicians would be well advised to either vote against it or at least make a decent case out of it and explain it properly. Right now it is "we have no alternatives", and that is lethal poison for a democracy.
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May 8, 2012 23:58
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