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This thread has been very quiet for the last couple of weeks, surprisingly. I was hoping some of you fine gentlemen could point me to some information about the Right Terror that has been the focus of discussion for a while now. I feel like I didn't pay attention for a minute, and the next thing I know there is a Neo-Nazi terrorist network making the news and talks about outlawing the NPD again. I feel like the NPD Verbots-discussions, while being a good thing for bringing up what a horrible, terrible party this is, are some kind of a kneejerk reaction, but I seemed to have missed what it is a kneejerk reaction to. I was hoping for some information from this thread, kind goons.
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Nov 19, 2011 11:35
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ArchangeI posted:The SPIEGEL has a decent writeup: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,797569,00.html Thank you, going to have a look at that right away. quote:The NPD thing, I believe, is more because the party has changed its strategy away from being ultra-extremist to at least appearing somewhat mainstream - they are no longer running around with quite as many Imperial German Flags and more with Federal German Flags, for example. And they managed to retain their seats in at least one of the state parliaments (here in MV, go figure), so there is fear that they may become a fixture in the German political spectrum. The involvement of the domestic intelligence service and the ideological component aside, I see no connection between the NPD and the NSU. It's pure speculation, but would you say that the course of this change in politics could be partly due to the fact that the NPD is teeming with these V-Männern? I got the general impression that the NPD would cease to be able to function as a party if all the confidential informants of the domestic intelligence just up and left. Edit: Never mind, reading the article this seems the same kind of careless underestimation of the right that has allowed this NSU to operate for so long. Grendels Dad fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 19, 2011 |
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Nov 19, 2011 16:54
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Stuhlmajor posted:I'm somewhat confused now, wasn't there a scandal several years ago when an investigation or abolition-process went south because the government had operatives in the organisation that had actively participated in legal transgressions. Yeah, this confuses me too. The bit about V-Männer basically being government-funded Neo-Nazis sounds pretty bad, but from what I've read I had the impression a sizable part of them actually were government spies and since there were so many of them in the NPD it couldn't be banned.
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Nov 20, 2011 12:50
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Oftentimes violence against foreigners and immigrants is blamed on other immigrants. Rightwing criminals are always lone nuts and not organized. Downplaying everything is common. And so on and so on. That's the impression I had from reading the SPIEGEL-article posted earlier, as well. Investigations into the Döner-Morde looked into possible connections to Turkish mafia or possibly honor killings and seemed to have dismissed completely that it could have been done by Neo-Nazis. Well, the murders were committed by Neo-Nazis after all, so now the question becomes: How many crimes have been brushed off by the police as "eh, that's the immigrants sorting things out among themselves", but were committed by right-wing extremists? At least now some of the downplaying seems to have stopped. There is simply no denying that active terror motivated by right-wing ideology exists, and there is no denying that those responsible for persecuting crimes have gone and hosed up by ignoring it for so long.
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Nov 20, 2011 15:59
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ArchangeI posted:That was pretty much it. I see where you are coming from, but on the other hand, the government practically bribing half the leadership of a party to make extremist statements is also a possible way of interpretating it. Banning a party in a democracy should always be done on absolutely watertight evidence. I always assumed they were men joining the party as inconspiciously as they could but kind of floated to the top by virtue of being from a higher education than most other members of the NPD. This way around sounds much more plausible, and a lot more depressing.
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Nov 20, 2011 17:18
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HighClassSwankyTime posted:Is German pornography really as gross as people say or is that just an internet myth? I can't comment on that, but I can say that German swearwords are curiously fixated on feces and such, opposed to the English obsession with sexual swears.
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Nov 24, 2011 12:58
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Sereri posted:They are. However that doesn't change their names. Also most of them are still rich and even for those that aren't the 'von und zu' has the same standing as a Dr. . But in this case it's less of a nobility thing anyway and has more to do with the fact that he's a former federal minister and also quite rich Well, getting an additional Dr. wouldn't hurt, Herr von und zu Gutenberg thought.
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Nov 24, 2011 15:35
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flavor posted:Also, if his nobility is supposedly worth that much, then why did he feel he needed to plagiarize? Are you asking why he asked someone else to write his thesis, or are you asking why he even wanted the title? My own answer to the former: Because Guttenberg was a rich politician with a golden future, and to me it seems like the University of Bayreuth hands those people doctorates together with a fruit basket. Before Guttenberg nobody really cared whether some rich guy actually wrote his own thesis, so Guttenberg didn't have any reason to believe he had to put any effort into not being "caught", because he thought nobody was looking. Hungry Gerbil kind of already answered the latter question: One can never have too many titles, especially not academic titles in politics. A Dr. in front of your name is a must-have.
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Nov 25, 2011 14:22
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Previously on GBS posted:...if you're a member of the CDU/CSU or FDP. I'm not sure Doctor Gerhard Schröder agrees.
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Nov 25, 2011 17:31
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goethe42 posted:What difference makes it for his qualification as a politician that his dissertation did not entirely consist of his own work? He would very probably have made the same career without the title. This is the strangest defense, and also a pretty common one. If this title didn't matter, why get it? Why fake a piece of academic writing to get it? And I guess it's cool that you are not impressed by titles, but you can rest assured that there are people who will be a lot more willing to pay attention to someone if that someone has a "Dr." in front of their name. Saying that such a title is meaningless is straight-up ignorant. quote:His charisma and appearance are what qualifies him as a potential future chancellor, not his ability to manage family, political career and scientific work at the same time. As part of his excuse Guttenberg stated that he was "overworked" and therefore made these "mistakes" that made it look like he "plagiarized" part of his work. Yeah, that's totally a guy I want to have in a place of power. Either he's a lying scumbag, which is a bad thing even though you apparently aren't bothered by it at all, or he is incompetent because managing his family and job at the same time apparently renders him inable to do intellectually challenging stuff. Stuff, I might add, that scores of other people manage to do under similar circumstances, while not being filthy rich and having an army of people who can do menial tasks such as research and whatnot. The cognitive dissonance between saying that it's no big deal and that Guttenberg was simply "overworked" and then saying that he'll have a golden future and the country needs him never fails to amaze me. quote:He lied, but so what, that's part of the job and he didn't do it in office or about anything Otto Normalbuerger would give a poo poo about. So I guess it's OK to keep liars in office as long as they only lie about stuff Otto Normalbürger doesn't care about? What about me? I care about that lie, as did enough people to make it a big deal. But then I guess I'm not Otto Normalbürger. Shame.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:42
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Factor_VIII posted:His reputation has been tarnished and he has been forced to pay a fine and released by the court. If the public wants to vote for him they're entitled to do so. They are, but it's a crying shame that the public opinion is still guided by the image BILD and the like had created of him well before the scandal. His reputation might be tarnished, but he's still the golden boy, and the CSU is already rubbing their collective hands together in anticipation of his inevitable return.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:52
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flavor posted:Your correlation between misdeeds and other misdeeds is questionable. People aren't criminals for life because they did one minor thing once. I wonder what parties you're voting for and whether those guys are all clean and if not, whether you've been spending time looking up laws to throw at them. Ah yes, the good old "other people do things wrong too"-defense. quote:From what I know about plagiarizing, its acceptance has greatly varied over history and it still varies between different cultures and different intellectual areas to the point where I'd be far from being so sure about someone's character based on just the fact that they've plagiarized something. I wouldn't say that the acceptance varied, just the knowledge and ability to care. If you know Bupkiss about academic work you are going to be a lot more accepting towards misdeeds in that field because you're more likely to equate it to some simpler structures known to you, like "cribbing in a math test in school". If you call that acceptance, whatever. quote:The whole Dr. thesis thing was bad enough, but what reflected even worse on Guttenberg's character and abilities as a politician was, that he had neither the honesty to own up to his misdeeds, nor the foresight to see, that that might be the best course of action, since it was all bound to come out anyway. Yes, this. The guy still has the nerve to euphemize his deeds as "mistakes" that happened because he was "under pressure", and that simply will not fly if he insists on having the image of the great greasy hope that will save German politics. Either he's a honest man, or he isn't. With the black-and-white image he himself created, it is really as simple as that.
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Nov 27, 2011 10:56
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Ok, here I go. I'm going to say: Guttenberg is a danger to Germany. He is already plannning to found his own party. He should take Ronald Schill and Edmund Stoiber on board. The Worst Party.
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Nov 27, 2011 13:50
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Stuhlmajor posted:Holy gently caress dude, we get it, he's literally Hitler. Move on or something. It's more the potential Guttenberg has that is frightening than anything else. The cult of personality that has evolved around him is legitimately unsettling. And the apathy this affair is met with in the broad population when other politicians have been tarred and feathered over issues that are similarly minor is a good indicator that nobody really gives a gently caress about what he says, it's just that the guy saying it is cool in their book. And that is not a good thing.
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Nov 27, 2011 14:16
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Plankalkuel posted:He will be another Obama. A well spoken plutocratic hack with charisma and a silver tung. Except that nobody will call him a gay fake-American Muslim and in fact the German media outlets that would be most likely to do something like this would not take his cock out of their mouths.
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Nov 27, 2011 15:40
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mike12345 posted:Is it possible that the public doesn't mind the plagiarism, because they like how it undermines the authority of academia? It makes sense in a really horrific way, since Guttenberg is the most elitist guy you could possibly do this with. If what you say is true they are liking a rich nobleman for sticking it to them Ivory Tower Intellectuals by being lazy.
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Nov 27, 2011 16:36
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Broken Dictionary posted:Why does that even matter? You think Obama and his presidency are going to be defined by a bunch of retards calling him a muslim jew nazi commie anti-christ? If it were up to the retards, yes. It's not up to them, yet. The poster I replied to brought up Obama because he's a "well spoken plutocratic hack with charisma and a silver tung", apparently just like Guttenberg. I merely tried to point out that Obama has many detractors that are way more retarded than Guttenberg's.
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Nov 27, 2011 18:54
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hankor posted:Your only argument is that he plagiarized his thesis, Wrong. The argument is that he's been lying pretty shamelessly about it ever since, telling sob stories about how overworked he was and pushing the semantic boundaries of the word "mistake". I think the most recent version of his apology tries to spin it so that he got confused because he worked on 4 computers simultaneously or something, and therefore the citations were "lost". It's not just the act of plagiarizing, it's the cheekiness with which he first denied everything and then half-assedly issued an "apology" that doesn't really admit anything that upsets me. And the fact that most people seem to buy into this crap. "Mistake", my rear end. quote:You attack him for being populistic Making posts on the Internet isn't quite on the level of populisticity (?) as having the Bunte, BILD and other B-papers suck your dick for ages. The fact that now Guttenberg and his fans have a persecution complex is almost as hilarious as Fox News claiming they are backed into a corner by the liberal media. quote:That's why 70% of germans want to have Guttenberg back in a politics. He is still young, even if he waits another 3 elections to run for Bundeskanzler in 2021, he would be the youngest ever. Heinz is a dumb rear end in a top hat and should consider alternatives to the BILD-zeitung.
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Nov 28, 2011 09:47
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How high was voter participation? Somehow the phrase "the majority of Stuttgart citizens is in favor on the project" doesn't sit well with me because I suspect it's more likely "the majority of people who could be arsed to vote are in favor of the project".
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Nov 29, 2011 10:35
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dreamin' posted:Guttenberg hasn't done a single thing in his whole political career, now that even his own party has been dissecting his Bundeswehr-Reform. This is a very good point that I think bears repeating, so I do repeat it lest it gets lost among your other good points. Guttenberg hadn't actually done anything. For all the talk about potential and competency, his political oeuvre is... let's say it is compact, as in "there is not a lot he's done, and it's all been done in a short time and with little consequence". I had to chuckle a bit when I remembered people talking about how Guttenberg got the Bundeswehr-Reform off the ground and it later turned out that it was just a mess that the levelheaded De Maizière only shook his head about when he took over.
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Dec 3, 2011 14:17
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Hip Flask posted:so which german publications should i read? Comedy option: http://www.bildblog.de/
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Dec 6, 2011 11:09
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snorch posted:I get a feeling that Germany could be paying more attention to holistic approaches of combating right-wing extremism. I keep hearing about tighter collaboration between various law enforcement agencies, and that is something that needs to happen, but to me it feels like they're trying to put a band-aid on something that goes much deeper. I thought the causes for most cases of right extremism were widely known though (unemployment, no prospects, lack of education etcs.), it's just that nobody cares enough to do something about those.
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Nov 16, 2012 17:41
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Landsknecht posted:And oh man breaking news: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2012-12/npd-verbot-innenministerkonferenz-2 If it falls through again I hope we at least get reports again about how a sizable part of the NPD leadership consists of V-Männer. The fact that a political party is mostly run by people who are paid to infiltrate it never stops being amusing to me.
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Dec 5, 2012 17:24
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Landsknecht posted:It's the greatest success of the intelligence agency, I mean they're much too busy infiltrating the NPD to figure out when foreigners/cops are going to be murdered by a terror cell. Those devious Nazis kept the investigators busy by letting them run their party for them.
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Dec 6, 2012 10:45
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midnightclimax posted:Maybe they'll try to kidnap Helmut Kohl next, that would be hilarious. They will try to kidnap his wife in order to blackmail him into carrying a (malfunctioning) bomb into the Bundestag. This all very much reminds me of a front page article on SA about how Obama now uses mentally challenged suicide bombers because all the competent ones died in previous attacks.
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Dec 16, 2012 13:04
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Sereri posted:No, you see, this is what he meant: Or maybe he's talking about famous German celebrity Daniela "The Cat" Katzenberger. Having her trying to build an airport would keep her off my TV, so everybody wins.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:14
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Deceitful Penguin posted:And cool on hatin' that, we should stock our large larders well in advance of course, with all possible wants or needs culinary. Yeah, what an impossible demand, thinking in advance.
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Feb 12, 2013 18:11
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Pfff, hahaha. What an adorable counter-point. Who's speaking about the 5th? What's supposed to be backwards about planning your shopping list even two days in advance? To the best of my knowledge that's pretty common among people over a certain age, so maybe you just outed yourself as a mid-20's bachelor who can't control his munchies and is pathetically dependent on instant gratification?
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Feb 12, 2013 18:43
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Yeah, "Hmmm, do I plan on wanting chocolate on the 5th? Better write that down, don't want my personal failings to keep me away from having plenty of Lindor to munch on".
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Zwille posted:This. Also gently caress buying more than you can carry in one go if you gotta carry it up multiple flights of stairs. I'm guessing everyone going "Sheesh, can't you plan in advance" has a car, lives in the suburbs, works 9-5 and probably has a wife who does all the shopping anyway. I don't have a car, live in the middle of Hamburg and do all most of shopping. So gently caress you, I guess. quote:Goodness, hyperbole much? Nobody is saying that it's absolutely necessary, but there's just not much reason not to do it. But they did say that? Because apparently not being able to buy stuff whenever you feel the need to is an unbearable thing for some people, and the idea to make do with what you got is something that cavemen once did. If you want to talk hyperbole, take this: quote:everything closing down super-early and for days on end?
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Feb 13, 2013 11:10
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Yeah, Rösler looks pretty clueless and weak. But on the other hand he is about to successfully change the FDP into something that won't get 5%, ever, again. I fixed this.
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May 4, 2013 12:38
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The two events are not comparable, but I'm still sadly reminded of Anders Breivik's trial. The Norwegian authorities handled that with such calm competence and everybody just oozed common sense, compared to that this trial is a circus side show already and is getting more undignified by the day.
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May 7, 2013 09:03
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Personally I will start to be concerned once Google fuses with Kraft Foods and I have to eat Google meals.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:17
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icantfindaname posted:I always get a good chuckle when European liberals act like they're any better than the US when it comes to racism. The NPD has seats in local parliaments, but this is apparently not nearly as concerning as three or four idiots proselytizing on the street in a major city It's not as concerning because most of them are V-Männer anyway.
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Sep 7, 2014 09:49
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eviljelly posted:I thought Handelskrieg is a trade war? What did your teacher mean that there's no such thing as a trade war...??? I assume he went to school before the Star Wars prequels came out so disuputes over trade weren't established as a thing that exists.
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Sep 12, 2014 08:38
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:"Mehr Mut, Mehr Markt, Mehr Freiheit" doesn't really strike me as a particularly mainstream Democratic campaign slogan. Markt Macht Frei?
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Sep 16, 2014 10:37
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Libluini posted:The secret of our trains: The Deutsche Bahn defines a "Verspätung" as a train coming late by more than five minutes. Also, after it is announced that "Der Zug fährt jetzt ein" it does not count as a "Verspätung", even if the train takes fifteen minutes to enter the station.
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Dec 12, 2014 10:27
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Germany is Thunderdome: two cultures/classes/religions enter, one leaves.
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Dec 20, 2014 14:49
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It just occurred to me while listening to a terrible CD by Haddaway today that people who talk about honoring or embracing German culture and German heritage and whatnot don't mean lovely pop-music from the 90's, and I think that makes them hypocrites.
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Dec 21, 2014 16:56
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Gegenfrage: What is culture?
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Dec 21, 2014 18:08
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| # ¿ May 2, 2024 14:27 |
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3peat posted:Looks like ya'll got infiltrated http://www.thelocal.de/20140414/the-mafia-has-infiltrated-every-sector-in-germany Unrelated, but I just want to take a moment to say that the Pope has major balls for excommunicating the Mafia.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:05
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