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DeusEx posted:Stereotypes Germans have about their neighbouring countries: Austrians: cliffshitters Netherlands: clowngermans
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Sep 30, 2011 14:13
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| # ¿ May 4, 2024 23:21 |
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You are aware that you aren't necessarily "forced" into a specific school curiculum, you are recommended one.
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Sep 30, 2011 20:57
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Previously on GBS posted:Today is our national day, German Unity Day. The fact that I just realized that now says everything about how important it is to most people. Overshadowed by the HVV outlawing drinking in the subway. Hamburg  DerDestroyer posted:Starting to wish I actually applied for that one job in München that matched my qualifications perfectly. No you don't.
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Oct 3, 2011 19:55
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Baronjutter posted:I used to think germany was pretty cool, but it's probably only berlin. Germany is really sounding like the US of europe. It's the biggest economy but it's full of right wing religious folk with awful blame-the-victim racism and a "that's just extreme left propaganda!" to any social or economic development since the 70's. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh no.
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Oct 4, 2011 20:16
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You yourself started up with "anecdotal evidence" which isn't worth anything. Calling racism and class discrimination, in Germany, "endemic" in a wider context is both wrong and dishonest, considering a comparison to other nations such as, the USA, UK, France, Poland, Russia, etc. The entire subject matter is huge and could be argued until the end of time and multi-cultural problems are rarely one-sided or simple. Oh and about honor killings, a girl from my school got stabbed to death with 20 stabs in broad daylight, down the street from where I was. Because she wanted to live like a German girl. Declaring "a thing" "small" is disgusting when "it" is actual real people dying horrifying deaths. Even it if were only one. az fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Oct 5, 2011 |
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Oct 5, 2011 07:22
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The Verfassungsschutz is mostly useless and rather harmless because they either spend time and money wiretapping on random people or fumble big cases, like oh, the NPD desaster. An agency too stupid to keep tabs on the nazi party, clap clap.
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Oct 5, 2011 11:59
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
It's dishonest when you seemingly single out Germany and declare racism endemic, when compared to its neighbours or other large nations it's actually neither the worst, most or in fact, endemic. There's this idea floating about that Germany still somehow compares to the third Reich, or is the beacon of white supremacy of modern times, both of which are absurd. Speaking of Scandinavia, the countries in question have had a considerably smaller number of immigration and smaller percentage of foreign rooted population. However you will find that there is a considerable amount of racism and white supremacy beneath the surface. The reaction a black man would receive in Hamburg is considerably different than say Oslo. Excactly because there are fewer "foreigners" and the native population isn't as used to them as for example Germans are. People like Breivik are just the newest and scariest byproduct of culture struggle in Scandinavia, and it may just get worse before it gets better. quote:
True on a matter of fact basis, but I personally despise the idea of carte-blanching either side in a problematic situation. I've heard people say to my face that "it's just what they do". Ignoring that in the cultural struggle in Germany, both sides, or actually all sides (the state, policy, politics, politicians, german nationals, foreigners, immigrants, etc) play ball and have their faults is bad for discourse and will lead to nothing but finger pointing. DeusEx posted:Actually they were keeping tabs on the NPD, so much indeed, that a sizeable share of NPD members were Verfassungsschutz informants. When they tried to outlaw the NPD by the constitutional court, it failed because the court suspected that the influence of the Verfassungsschutz on the NPD was indeed so massive, that it could be argued that the party was more or less run by the Verfassungsschutz itself. Excactly which I was hinting at, thanks for writing it out though. That's how the VVS is too stupid to do its job. StrangeRobot posted:Contrary to what Sarrazin worshippers I don't know what drugs you're on but they're definitely stronger than mine. Also you have poo poo for reading comprehension skills and attempts at irony. See: you lumping me in with some uneducated ideologue that, like you, knows poo poo about poo poo. quote:Still we're talking about Germany, our home. And what's Germany about if not perfection? Oooh this one is good. See ladies and gentlemen this is the perfect example of shifting blame in German public discourse. Anytime any situation is depicted in anything but pure black and white, clownshoe after clownshoe will yell out feebly and throw the nearest object at you. Why don't you call me a Nazi next time you post. Einbauschrank posted:1. the socialist SED simply renamed itself several times and is now called "die Linke". The fact that they gobbled up the WASG loonies doesn't change that fact,that there is still an unbroken line of continuity between the criminal SED that ruled the socialist dictatorship GDR and the party "die Linke". Calling this wrong unless you provide evidence of some sort of planned reformation into the Linke. As far as the public is aware, the Linke is a collection of socialist politicians that hail mostly from the SPD, Greens and, to some degree, former SEDs. Reading the rest of your post, you seem to have a massive bone to pick with the Linke. I have some ideas as to where you got your ideas from but I'd like to hear from you. az fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 6, 2011 |
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Oct 6, 2011 19:12
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hankor posted:Are you serious? While I don't like polemic bashing of "die Linke" (there is enough factual stuff you can use) denying it's history is pretty bad. Have you honestly never heard of the PDS? Of course I know the PDS, I just blanked on it writing the post. And I'm aware of the connection between the SED, and by proxy of the PDS the Linke. His assertment that the Linke was literally a plant of the SED is what I was questioning. Deceitful Penguin posted:
Heh, true enough. I was meaning the rather widely held notion that Germany is very and openly racist, more so than others, which I'm tired and resentful of. Deceitful Penguin posted:Ok, I'll withdraw my comment about it "Endemic" and instead say that it seemed somewhat widespread. This, in fact, does nothing to change the fact that it exists. But if the word so irritates you, I'll withdraw it. As above, it's not the word, it's the notion. The notion that Germany is supposedly racist-ier than other places, which was my understanding going into this debate. In the end, intellectual honesty and integrity is important to me, especially in matters of great importance. Even minor mistakes in arguing or fact checking can smear and sour the entire debate. Deceitful Penguin posted:
Yeah, being conscious of the state of affairs in the world is very important, I live in this country and have to watch stupid poo poo happen every day. Doesn't mean one should stop trying to make things better. quote:That said, I certainly never saw the same level of economic disparity I did in Germany in Scandinavia or here. I never heard of immigrant kids being told to enter lesser quality schools, or see them so under-represented. I had a long writeup here detailing inconsistencies in the media reports and public discourse over these issues but it was too much to cover properly right now as I have to run, I may get back to it later. What I wanted to leave was the recent North Carolina policy push to literally re-segregate school district. Something much worse than what I've seen over here. Random link I grabbed off of google: clicky az fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Oct 7, 2011 |
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Oct 7, 2011 00:30
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cremnob posted:Hi German goons, I'd like for you to give me an objective opinion about an article I read in Foreign Affairs about Germany's recent rise to becoming an economic jugernaut, and Agenda 2010's impact on that. I realize most goons are overwhelmingly liberal so I am not sure if this will be possible, but we'll see what happens. It is not a recent rise, it's been a long development. Germany used to be the worlds number one export nation before China took that place and pushed Germany to number two, contrary what the article claims. Maintaining strong manufacturing sectors has been a key element to the overall strength of the economy, mainly chemicals, industrial hardware, metalworking goods, cars etc. The so called short work program is a terrible tool that creates an unneccessary middle-man agency between employer and employee, effectively depressing the employees wage. The employee in this situation has no negotionable position or labor union support. Their only choice is to either accept the work and wage without question, or drop into the unemployment pool. The catch there is that work agencies actively force both long and short term unemployed into accepting such work under threat of cutting benefits if they do not comply. They tried to do that with me when I was in between jobs. I left work in July and had a contract to begin working for a different employer in february of the next year, spending the in-between time with study programs. The work agency covered six months of unemployment time, after that I'd been covered by social security. In a fit of bureaucratic insanity they tried to force me into short term work in january, working the assembly line in a car tire factory 500 miles away from where I lived and was about to work again, despite me proving that I was about to employed again full time in march. I had to threaten sueing the entire agency until they let me be.
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Oct 8, 2011 07:03
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My favorite planned economy story is the chandelier industry in <some town i forgot>. They got orders to increase their output, and their output was measured in kilos. One clever idea later they used extra lead they had lying around to put on more weight to meet their new quota. The new chandeliers were so heavy they fell from the ceiling.
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Oct 13, 2011 03:19
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Order a döner with köfte, seasoned ground lamb beef, best thing.
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Nov 21, 2011 11:17
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Interrupting Guttenberg chat to say that you shan't read the spiegel online or otherwise. Bad journalism is bad.
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Nov 25, 2011 21:44
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I tried to interview Fischer when I met him waiting for a train in Hamburg Central a few years ago and asking about his change of stances and positions since the 70s made his security guard block me off and tell me to gently caress off basically. He really doesn't like owing up to it.
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Nov 25, 2011 22:10
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I'd vote for him unironically.
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Dec 4, 2011 17:39
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hankor posted:How are the FAZ and the SZ anything but good newspapers? You might not agree with the editorials but besides that I can't think of anything bad about them. The FAZ made my head spin the last time I read it with its smug conservative ideals and pseudo intellectual bullshit. Has been a long time since I read it however.
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Dec 6, 2011 02:36
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n/m
az fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 09:56
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hankor posted:^^^I think the people that have to rely on the "Münsteraner Stadtanzeiger" or the "Rostocker Rundschau" will find it rather lacking in the international news section. Hamburger Abendblatt is larger and not bad.
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Dec 7, 2011 17:16
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ephex posted:
Hadn't seen that yet, bloody brilliant.
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Dec 14, 2011 16:46
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I'm glad Wulff is dead and gone, politically. He was poo poo in Niedersachsen before and I always saw it coming that he had the aspiration for higher office. Luckily, Merkel managed to reroute him towards becoming President instead of trying for Chancellor.
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Feb 17, 2012 20:14
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My mother used to be friends with Uschi and she is a dense and empty person that doesn't understand what life without unlimited money is like anymore.
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Feb 21, 2012 21:52
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hankor posted:
Let them come and I will stand before you. The pirateparty in most people's minds *should* have been an anti establishment party for nerds, but they turned out they're nerds, of the pathetic kind, that have no platform outside of "don't touch my computer or internet" and, well, gently caress all besides wasting air and ink.
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Mar 10, 2012 19:25
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I believe that at least a quarter of NDP votes are trolling to show discontent with the other parties, I know people who've done this.
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Mar 27, 2012 05:57
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Let's not pretend as if the NPD would ever be going anywhere.
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Mar 27, 2012 18:04
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Jesus christ what have I done, whiny poo poo central.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:02
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You're talking poo poo mate.
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Mar 27, 2012 21:04
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As someone from Hamburg I cannot wait until Bavaria gtfo's.
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Aug 24, 2012 15:21
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^^^^ You may have missed it but we don't have a two party system.
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Aug 24, 2012 17:01
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Yeah it's true, especially bad considering all our major parties gravitated towards the center right.
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Aug 24, 2012 17:27
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^^ lmao Well yes we are still far away from the USA, thank god, but we are moving in the same direction. Compare the Green party from the days when Joschka Fischer wore sneakers to parliament and today, where they fall over each other trying to get into a coalition, any coalition. I don't think I even have to mention how much the SPD shifted to the center from were they used to be. I mean even Helmut Schmidt is ashamed of some of their policies and he used to be relatively grounded for a Hamburg social democrat. The FDP can go to hell forever, they're both useless and stupid, their libertarian policies are counter productive and literally FYGM politics. The Linke, heh, I don't even know where they gently caress they're going anymore. From the perspectives of left leaning social dems and socialists, we really need a new charismatic and influential politician that drops some truthbombs and isn't afraid of going against the cuddle politics of today, while further eroding our social safety nets.
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Aug 24, 2012 17:48
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I cannot parse what you are trying to say. The FDP is not a libertarian party but actually social democratic? What
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Aug 24, 2012 19:22
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ArchangeI posted:No, I meant to imply that Az's post read almost 1:1 like some comments from Sarazin fans. Finally someone who speaks the truth about all those drat immigrants! Someone who is not cowed by the PC-thought police that controls all other parties in parliament! And he was (is?) in the SPD, so... No no that was really not what I meant. Looking over it, it wasn't expressed very well. I was referring to people that break the mold of hand wringing and softballing each other in political discourse like German politicians of these times seem to love. I'd love to see politicians that actually call each other on their lies and idiotic policy proposals instead of going "ehhhhhh". People like Sarazin that unload rhetorical garbage and try to score cheap demagogue points can gently caress right off.
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Aug 24, 2012 20:10
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What a shame all they ever do in government is whine about tax breaks for job creators 
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Aug 24, 2012 20:19
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It's true, all of us hate all those terrible browns and other immigrants. That's why Germany is not an immigration country and there are no foreigners living here, zero. edit: shame about the guy in the article but gently caress your strawman bullshit edit2: lmao "learn from great britain in regards to dealing with immigrants", you mean vote bnp and white flight because of scary indians and pakistanis? az fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Oct 5, 2012 |
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Oct 5, 2012 14:03
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niethan posted:Well do you find it fair that political refugees and asylum seekers aren't allowed to work and are kept in what amounts to prison cells? Me? Of course not, I'm far left, I have immigrants in my family and friends and a working sense of right and wrong. But the screeching hyperbole that some people display every time this topic comes up is ridiculous.
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Oct 5, 2012 14:34
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You may think that was a good use of sarcasm or satire but there are many people in the world and around here that actually believe what you said in earnest, we've had these arguments before, and with that in mind is what I replied to. As in, Germany is full of nazis, everybody hates immigrants and we're one step removed from going back a third reich style resolution. German immigration politics and everything connected to it is a very delicate and difficult topic that cannot be possibly displayed as a one sided, simple affair, and doing so is disingenous at best. It's hard as a leftie to fight racists and bigots while you get shot in the back by people that don't know the reality of it and belief in ridiculous hyperbolic legends that seem to be passed around. az fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 5, 2012 |
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Oct 5, 2012 14:49
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:It may say something about you if your first reaction to any problem in that direction being pointed out is to take it as a personal insult and throw a BUT WHAT ABOUT GERMANY'S IMAGE fit. Where's the crazy hyperbole? The article highlights a genuine issue that affects real people in the real world right now; the comment quoted above was in all likelihood written in earnest, and people who hold such views aren't terribly hard to find. I don't, however, see anyone here pretending that they're representative of absolutely every white German or whatever it is you're reading into clownpenis' post. "Of course this is just another example of subhuman Muslims refusing to integrate" That's pretty good hyperbole right there. And I wasn't talking about the article re: hyperbole but the surrounding post. I have a hair trigger regarding this topic and as I said above, I considered the original post as in the same vein as all the clownshit I've had to deal with before in my life, on the internet and sometimes on these forums. It's also not about Germany's image it's about the complete misunderstanding of the situation(s) re: immigration/immigrants. Before this turns into a page long discussion about my reaction to the thread let's just end that right here, we've cleared it up and everything is fine (except immigration policies).
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Oct 5, 2012 15:05
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:That reads pretty clearly as "of course some racist jackass in the comments knows what the real problem is:" What now?
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Oct 5, 2012 15:11
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:The part of clownpenis' post you objected to looked to me like it was intended to mean essentially no more or less than "wow look at the dumb comment quoted below, it is terrible that such opinions are so frequently found beneath articles discussing this general topic". Oh, ok, yeah it may have been. I read your last post in a different way at first
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Oct 5, 2012 15:18
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Re: That family guy recap someone did (couldn't see the video obv.), that's very unlike Germany actually. Japan is the Axis major that completly ignores and denies everything from 1930 to 46. Germany is very self conscious about the period and trying to ignore it away wouldn't go anywhere here.The Brown Menace posted:What a bummer that being critical does not whatsoever imply critical analysis or anything beyond piss-shallow complaining without even the slightest pretense of pre- or context. Are you throwing down? Because you gots to go in a bit deeper if you want to. az fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 09:15
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| # ¿ May 4, 2024 23:21 |
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^^^^^ It was mostly the children of those who lived through the war, and mostly those who were born after. My mother used to hound my grandfather for information on what he did during the war while her older siblings that were born in 43 and 45 did not.Orange Devil posted:Germany's self-consciousness has a strange duality to it though. I mean, yes, there's pretty good education and discussion about nazi-times in German schools, although I did find it weird that my girlfriend told me she learned nothing about the actual war part of the war, having instead focused solely on the social and societal aspects of it. It's also completely unacceptable in public life to glorify the period in any way shape or form. Contrast with Italy, for example. I think you shouldn't indict the whole country for letting a few bad people get away. Most of the really bad Nazis and SS officers got what was coming to them at the hands of the allies. The fact that denazification was pretty toothless is not actually a German thing, it was an allied decision, mostly the US's. They needed West Germany to be stable in the face of an increasing Cold War, especially with the Wall coming up. Everybody who wasn't a really bad, well known Nazi got pardoned, in essence, to allow them to fill in positions in German politics, the Police and especially the Military. The US Army was very much interested in keep as many east front veterans as possible in the Federal Army, because they had been fighting the Soviets and knew their style and tactics the best. For example, most German officers that were moved to America in Operation Paperclip were put to task to help them establish doctrines and intelligence efforts against the Soviet Union. All in the name of fighting Communism. Many of those that fled the country after the collapse were eventually gotten to by the Mossad. I'm not trying to defend the German govt. or the allied powers letting anyone get away because it was useful to them. And I really did not understand what was going on wrt to Faber and why he was being protected by German courts. I wouldn't say Germany provided shelter for war criminals because that sounds very much hyperbolic. There are only a handful of cases known to me, all of which are bad but it definitely was not an endemic effort to do it by the government. And how do you mean, no sympthaty for those killed by the RAF, are you one of those that believe every German that died in the war had it coming? Because you know, the RAF especially targeted population centers on purpose and ignored the infrastructure leading east, in an effort to a) kill the people and undermine morale (which never works) and b) let them keep fighting the Soviets to reduce the amount of land they'd eventually get in a peace settlement. The RAF was run by literal warcriminals and committed so many horrible acts it is absolutely indefensible. If you want standards I think Germany is probably leading in a scale of how educated and apologetic a country is after doing something really awful. Some japanese college students I talked to about it did just barely or not at all know there was a war. Those who did had no idea about any specifics besides the nuclear bomb drops. The official stance is to completly ignore any Japanese involvement in WW2, especially towards China. az fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 14:38
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