|
Just with a simple still and a modest supply of drugs, the Followers did more good to the communities of Mojave in the short timespan of the game than House with his robots, electricity and whatnot in decades. His failed "economy" based on casinos seems more harmful than beneficial, it produces externalities and conflicts which he refuses to acknowledge and solve. It brought to the Mojave the worst elements of the NCR and marginalized the natives. It's possible he would eventually turn things for the better, but his approach is ineffectual and his priorities skewed. Both the NCR planners and the Followers (the neutral path) have a better idea about how to improve the situation (agriculture as the foundation on which to build industry and services, not vice versa as House imagines), and pooling House's idling resources with those of these factions seems to be the best way forward. That being said, I regretted the only way to overthrow House was to kill him. He wasn't really evil, and he was a brilliant bureaucrat. Wolfsheim posted:Yeah, the vibes of "We are here to save you from yourselves, also we'll help ourselves to any resources you might have thanks" imperialism bullshit are so overt I'm surprised anyone bought into it. The kind of NCR attention House attracted probably speaks more about his ability to grasp impact of his own policies than about the NCR at large. The most apparent thing about its presence is that it works hard on restoring basic infrastructure: Irrigation, power grid, farming. All of which the Mojave population needs urgently. People in the game often bitch about how horrible the NCR is, but there's little obvious evidence that it's true any more. Many of the conflicts between the NCR and the local populace stemmed from the sort of anarchy that flourished under House's rule - and if the Courier decides to use diplomacy and promote cross-faction dialogue, the NCR almost always turns out to be reasonable and willing to negotiate with the locals. They are even able to reflect on the Bitter Springs massacre and so on.
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2013 12:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 02:07 |
|
|
Indeed. When I said Mojave was under House's rule, it wasn't a correct statement; but he's a jealous overlord who watches over the region and denies any other actor political agency. His self-centered actions didn't help the inhabitants to organize themselves, to become united / empowered and act as a negotiating party when the NCR arrived. There was anarchy which apparently served Houses's interests well enough, and when the NCR started cultivating and settling the Wastes, he got all pissy about how dare they usurp his piece of land. What Mojave needs is a voice capable of effectively speaking for its various interests (which it found in the Courier), not a parochial dictator who is preoccupied with his narrow projects. House is a cold businessman, not a politician - and there are good reasons why we don't let businessmen run politics IRL.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2013 00:07
|
|
|
That DICK! posted:I had that exact same feeling play through the game. The NCR seems to have all the gains and drawbacks of 1900-2013 America. It's a seemingly progressive and democratic system, but inherently flawed that moves unbelievably slowly due to corruption, in-fighting, and just plain incompetence. Imagine if a modern day American government was left to re-inhabit, re-conquer, and re-stabilatize all of America. I don't know about you, but I'd almost rather take my chance with a loving Caesar. quote:I don't want to turn this thread into a political shitstorm, but I guess it all gets back to my feeling that deep down the best thing for the country(even in modern day) would be a (reliably)benevolent dictatorship that enforces socialist policies. House certainly had the potential to be that, so if I were to go into this poo poo completely blind and side with one faction, it'd be House.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2013 01:41
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:
Murdering anyone who dares approach you sort of is a horrible crime, IMHO-
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2013 16:29
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:It's never really addressed often within the game, but the apocalypse that caused the fallout absolutely devastated the population of the US, which means that all that food output intended to feed over 300 million people is getting split up amongst mere thousands. That is A LOT of food. Even so it makes no sense that there are still scavengers grabbing cans from supermarkets. All the excess food should have been long collected and stored by the various groups struggling for survival.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
Is it known whether the next Fallout is being developed by the same division that made Skyrim? Because that game was much, much worse than Fallout 3 in the writing department so I tend to be kinda skeptical about the future.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:that is the case in the game. The supermarket you go to is basically entirely empty and now used as a home base by a group of bandits There's a bunch of stores and houses that still have food and other supplies lying on shelves, apparently untouched. But yeah, I shouldn't have used supermarket as the prime example considering there's actually only one in the game and it's occupied.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 13, 2013 00:08
|
|
|
Hey, I thought Skyrim was surprisingly stable and playable even on my lovely laptop. I would say it actually worked better than Fallout. So hopefully this new found competency won't change in their future games.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2013 12:20
|
|
|
Friar Zucchini posted:In New Vegas, is there a set number of each particular, uh, killable thing? As in, if I wanted to, I could just go out and sterilize the whole drat place once and for all, or if I was a cowardly little poo poo and ran away from every little thing no place would ever clear up and get easier to pass through? I'm 99.9% sure (almost) everything unnamed in the general world respawns.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:I doubt that claim. I've tried 3 GOG games so far (all games I have on disc that I got to run on windows xp with minimal fuckery): I played both Fallout and GK2 on Windows 7 using the GOG set up, without any issues. It's definitely worth giving their version a try.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2013 20:10
|
|
|
I finished Dead Money for the first time today. The one thing that surprised me the most was Dean Domino - I read about him being a total dick who is almost impossible to keep happy. However, I found him to be surprisingly amiable, despite his backstory as a scheming son of a bitch. Perhaps I got lucky and chose a sequence of options that renders him in a different light than was intended, but he really turned out to be a pleasant and reliable ally. He even came to my assistance when I was confused during the final confrontation.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2013 01:27
|
|
|
Goobish posted:What Vault do you guys think is the coolest to explore? I remember early on in this thread there was a Vault everyone was talking about, something about it being a really good story and genuinely spooky. Anyone remember which Vault that was? Or any other suggestions? Vault 34 is probably the most challenging, and most fun as a straight-up dungeon filled with monsters and loot. It also has the best layout, IMHO. It doesn't have a very intriguing backstory, though. Vault 22 does have several interesting quests tied to it, as well as some DLC content, but it isn't as much fun from the gameplay perspective, though it may be a bit more appealing if you are into jumpscares (still, bear in mind the engine isn't exactly adapted to that kind of horror). It's also a bitch to navigate. Vault 11 is a self-contained narrative with a lot of visual storytelling and associated unique assets - but it's probably the weakest vault as far as combat goes, and it isn't spooky at all.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 24, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:I like Vault 3, home of the fiends! But not fighting through it, I just like quietly slipping in and hearing all the plot-related chatter from their drugged out perspective. The best thing is that they won't mind you stealing all their stuff. "Yeah, I'm here regarding a drug shipment. Which I'm gonna gather from your lockers and then sell to Motor Runner"
|
|
#
¿
Sep 24, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I went into Vault 11 on my last playthrough and oh boy what a waste of time, there's basically no good loot at all, a bunch of boring no effort mantis and rat enemies and underwater sections. The story behind it is kind of cool, but it feels like there is no reward for going in. Never again. I sorta make it a priority in every playthrough to collect as many pre-war outfits as possible, and Vault 11 is vital in this personal crusade... But yeah, there really isn't any point to it other than that.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2013 21:42
|
|
|
Seashell Salesman posted:How do they do this in real life with casinos/hotels? The Flamingo, arguably the most notorious hotel in Vegas, which also shares a lot of characteristic with Sierra Madre (Bugsy Siegel named it as a tribute to his girlfriend, for instance), opened while still undergoing furnishing works and wasn't actually receiving hotel guests. Consequentially the Gala Opening was a terrible failure (celebrity guests didn't arrive because they had to be flown from LA and bad weather prevented them from coming, gamblers couldn't book rooms and had to spend their winnings elsewhere...) Another Las Vegas hotel with a remarkable opening ceremony was the Cesar Palace, which opened with a three day party, but due to budget problems the number of officially invited guests was cut to something like a tenth of what was originally planned. I don't think any guest arrived before the day the gala started, considering the lengths to which they went with the welcoming of each new arrival.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:If you didn't collect every single mug, toaster and clipboard you came across in the main game and head into OWB with over 1000 pounds of junk weighing you down then, well, I wish I had your willpower. I obsessively stashed tons of that stuff, in the Lucky 19 Suite... Then never used it because the reward was crap 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 7, 2013 11:32
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:I'm probably the only person on the whole Earth that thought OWB's over the top zaniness made it unenjoyable. After a very short while I stopped laughing and started rolling my eyes so hard they may as well have popped outta my head. Yeah, that was my reaction too. One joke per character, stretched extra thin. I didn't like OWB in general, the enemies were unbalanced (squishy lobotomites vs terribly annoying bullet sponge robots - if the DLC rewards me for using untrained melee skills, it goes contrary to the very foundations of RPG design), quests unremarkable, plot convoluted etc. I really felt it needed actual human characters with personality to keep me going. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Nov 10, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2013 11:17
|
|
|
Frankston posted:If it's true then I hope we get a new engine. I like Fallout 3 and NV a lot but it's just so... janky and feels terribly outdated. It would make sense for them to use the Skyrim engine. At least I hope that's what's gonna happen - whatever complaints one may have about the game, on a technological level it was a huuuge step up.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2013 12:13
|
|
|
I wish they would stop moving the sequels further and further into the future if they are not going to commit to the implications of passing time. Vault 6: The year is 3251, and the humanity is trying to figure out how fire works!
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2013 23:28
|
|
|
To be fair, I too tried to whitewash Enclave in my run, solely thanks to Malcolm McDowell's charisma.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2013 11:40
|
|
|
What serious problems is the NCR facing? There was a lot of fistshaking and complaining going on amongst certain NPCs, but such bickering is a necessary part of any democratic process and not a sign of weakness.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2013 16:11
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Consider how much trouble the NCR is having in keeping this really small part of the Mojave. Now remember that the NCR is basically most of California and goes all the way up to Oregon. Now remember they're also invading Baja at the same time that they're barely keeping the Dam. Real world history is full of superpowers failing to win seemingly minuscule conflicts because of internal strife - without ever becoming less powerful in any substantial sense. Ravenfood posted:Not enough to justify supporting the Legion, that's for sure. That's kind of the problem. On the other hand, there is the implication that there isn't anywhere near the level of raider-free lands that the Legion has. They need to keep expanding to provide for basic infrastructure, they charge what are apparently exorbitant taxes to do very little for the population except enrich some cattle barons, and some more generic stuff. That's kind of the problem, there's no reason not to support the NCR, since while they're huge, bloated, and horribly inefficient, they're not actively utterly repugnant all the time. And as another point in their favor, they're a large, relatively stable society that dragged itself up from nothing, are nominally democratic, and aren't about to implode anytime soon. You have to take others' word for that. Speaking to a Tea Partier about the USA of taday, you would also get an impression that the secretly Communist gubirment is going to fall apart any day now. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 16, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2013 16:43
|
|
|
rope kid posted:IMO, nothing goes beyond the realm of Charles Taylor's Liberia. That was Hell on Earth-level systematic atrocity and it happened within my lifetime. It's much easier to be skeptical of the magnitude of abuse that writers express about historical warlords like Timur, but Liberia was well-documented and -- at least in the details -- was crazier than what we know about the olde tyme dudes. So while it's certainly true that no historical figure has done specifically what Caesar does in F:NV, I have no doubt that a human being in a position of power could attempt to do something similar. The main weakness of Legion is not the plausibility (or lack of thereof) of its crimes, but the way its officers and soldiers are portrayed. They are cold, efficient, inhuman creatures that just clash against the reality of violence. Even in the case of Taylor, Koroma, or even with Khmer Rouge leadership and their lieutenants and men, the genesis and windfall of the atrocities was much more nuanced and marked with the necessary coexistence of past bonds and present violence that prevented these societies from descending into outright disintegration. Throughout the world - in Cambodia, Liberia, Rwanda... - there are even today numerous men who participated in acts that would make Caesar stare in horror and disbelief, and they never fully succumbed to the sort of mindless violence-affirming ideology that is prevalent in Legion, never lost their sense of belonging with the society in which they grew up, never became emotionless robots, and in most cases actually reintegrated and had to confront their baggage with their past victims. With Legion, there is no sense of the profound tragedy of twisted lives denied a peaceful existence because there is no human element involved, even though you are seemingly involved with Legion members, they never breach the caricature-like mask of their uniform. Even the past members such as Joshua and Ulysses are melodramatic brooding figures instead of something more believable. If anyone is interested in the topic, there's a number of excellent documentaries on the topic. Sambath's Enemies of the People traces personal journey of people involved in Cambodia's killing fields, including Nuon Chea; War Don Don by Rebecca Richman documents Sierra Leone's issues in light of the Issa Sesay trial; Anne Aghion's My Neighbor, My Killer follows Rwanda's killers and victims as they return to live together in their original villages. Furthermore, BBC World podcast archives feature a number of pieces on legacy of Taylor's regime etc.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2013 11:26
|
|
|
caleramaen posted:On the other hand, the Spartans. Spartans weren't cartoon villains, they were a xenophobic, caste society with a reputation for asceticism - still, their lifestyle and politics were alluring enough to sustain a large community of Laconophiles throughout the Greek elite strata, and Spartan constitution was seen as a viable and potentially more liberating alternative to that of Athens. They weren't self-brutalizing.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:The Spartans had a time of the year when they actively hunted down their own slaves and killed them, hell iirc to become a Spartan soldier you were expected to kill a helot as your rite of passage. Which doesn't add to the argument on hand in one way or another. Nobody disputed that there were civilizations with appetite for killing the Other.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:Of course there is, never mind that describing Bethesda's games, which are routinely rife with severe bugs at release as 'working'. Often they are. But Skyrim was much more stable and overall better optimized than any Gamebryo game.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 11:55
|
|
|
I for one would welcome a full on spaghetti western Fallout.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2013 13:28
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:All I care about is if Troy Baker wins Best Voice Actor, I will laugh my rear end off if William Dafoe wins though to boost sales for "Beyond Two Souls" With all due respect to Troy Baker, it's not like BTS didn't feature a massive amount of talent. Dafoe wasn't utilized up to his full potential, but that doesn't change his status as a great actor.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2013 19:52
|
|
|
Yeah, wouldn't want Fallout's gems of video game writing, such as the porn movie subplot, or the entire five sentences of Junkyard's dialogue, touched by the chucklefucks at Bethesda! After all we know they are barely literate!
|
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2013 10:21
|
|
|
Psycho Mantits posted:So it's my first time playing through this game (late to the party, I know) and I was wondering, does the game ever have a random difficulty spike ala Skyrim? Certain DLCs have difficulty spikes (Honest Hearts) or are difficulty spikes (Lonesome Road). The main game won't get any more challenging. Also, was that Skyrim's difficulty spike when the game decided to replace every draugr enemy with a bullet sponge miniboss?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
People pulling in many different directions at once in a pluralistic society with a set of impersonal rules is a) capitalistic, unlike House's Randian agenda b) more conductive to prosperity than even the most enlightened dictatorship since it actually embodies the dialectics misrepresented by Caesar. Not to mention that even the most totalitarian societies were product of many brains battling against each other, not of one person with a straightforward plan. Delegating all power on one person is just a recipe for disaster. And claiming that House doensn't want to rule Vegas makes no sense. He who owns vital infrastruture, and more importantly he who reserves for himself legitimate use of violence IS a ruler by definition. Also, as Nietzsche said - if a nation can only be saved by one person, it deserves to be destroyed. Meaning that if House is Vegas' only hope to stay independent, then Vegas is a farce of a state and deserved the mercy killing that is coming its way. Edit: Re. Post Above: House's technological acumen isn't all that exceptional. The game is full of people more than willing to study and advance pre-war technology, but they are hampered by House's selfish insulation and secrecy. He and his technology is a cancer that would ultimately keep Vegas a prisoner of his ego until somebody could challenge his resources. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 15, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
Lotish posted:So is this also a condemnation of the Yes Man route, since that one man is the Courier, or an endorsement, since the Courier destroys everyone else? To be honest, even though I've chosen the Yes Man route on all three playthroughs, I don't know what exactly it accomplishes. The way I understand the ending is that you as the Courier basically let the various communities of Mojave to self-govern, for better or for worse. Byzantine posted:Democracy is not inherently superior to autocracy. quote:Vegas isn't a radioactive crater.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
Iretep posted:Without House the only politics going on in Vegas would be either do you go to the raiders who shoot and rob you or go to the raiders that shoot, rob and serve you medium rare to their buddies. So what? If you give somebody a kidney, does it make them your slave?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 23:12
|
|
|
Iretep posted:House didnt have slaves. Infact wasnt slavery illigal in Vegas? He did claim dominion over the strip, and he planned to become the sole military actor in the region. That alone makes him a tyrant / dictator according to any existing metric. And while relationship between a tyrant and a subject may not be exactly that of a master and a slave, it is most definitely bereft of liberty.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 23:21
|
|
|
Speaking of Cass, is it in any way possible to prevent companions from using up superior ammo on low-tier enemies? I think she's the best sidekick character, but she always pumps all of her specialty shotgun shells into the first bloatfly she spots from half way across the map. VVV Well, yeah, but if I go on a mission I can't always anticipate whether the next enemy is going to be a deathclaw or a giant mantis. Also, constantly micromanaging companion inventory using Fallout's UI is a major pain. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Dec 15, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
more friedman units posted:It seems like the pro-House arguments usually come from a quasi-libertarian sentiment, including the extremely narrow definitions of coercion and tyranny. Only a government can be tyrannical, otherwise it's all just mutually beneficial transactions. Never mind that House's lock on power, water, and technology would make for an extremely one-sided relationship with the residents of the Mojave. After all, they could always go die of thirst or be shot by raiders somewhere else. The irony of that is that respectable theorists of the libertarian ideology, such as Nozick, recognize the right of the community to coerce individuals into following a common policy line because a society composed entirely of rules imposed by atomized, purely self-interest driven individuals is obviously unsustainable.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:The street vendor is probably making a lot more than she would out in the wastes, the Vault was won fairly, and Sarah got to keep a big chunk of it, and having walls is probably not a bad idea, unless you want the tourists to get hassled by raiders and mutants. House is not the sole purveyor of public goods in the Wasteland, and his activity in the strip merely supports pointless gambling business that is outright detrimental to the wast majority of desperate Vegas dwellers; if anything he is the main source of inefficiencies in governing Mojave because of his self-serving entrepreneurial pretenses. The walls that protect the bits where there are actual inhabitants are maintained by their respective communities. The same communities also redistribute water, food, medical supplies, etc without any positive contribution on House's part. Also, the fact he graciously saved a part of the Vault from destruction doesn't make him into a good leader - it merely means his crimes aren't as grave as they could have been. When there's a supermutant who's a far better public servant than you are, you know you are doing something very, very wrong.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2013 01:16
|
|
|
Iretep posted:Actually it's a lot easier to point at another guy and scream it was his fault or circle jerk with your other democratically elected clowns and say the damage wasn't actually that bad. When exactly in history did dictators who broke away from democracy improve the state of affairs in their respective nations? OldMemes posted:If he was that bad at it, there wouldn't be crowds of people coming in to use the strip. The NCR is supposedly spread thin, but there's no in-world evidence to support that. It seems it's just opinion of some NPCs that the NCR isn't able to defend itself. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Dec 16, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2013 01:20
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:For certain definitions of democracy, the original Caesar. Octavius, perhaps, after a long period of decline. Caesar, questionable. He never undermined the power of th Senate which was the actual sovereign of the state. quote:Also I can think of quite a few dictators that improved their own nations affairs, I think the problem with them was usually what they did to their neighbors.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2013 01:32
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 02:07 |
|
|
Iretep posted:Democracy caused the nuclear holocaust is more than enough reason to support House for me. I don't think the American president even got kicked out of office! Foreign policy has never been subject to real democratic control.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 18, 2013 16:38
|
|