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All this pizza makes me wish my pizza oven was in commission. Some of my cob came off in the last bit of rain, so I have a fresh wad of cob pressed up into the gap using a car jack. It'll have to cure ove time. It looks like my oven isn't ever going to be quite water proof, but otherwise it works nicely. I see some discussion in the last page about pizza ovens and such. Are there still any questions? I was wondering if there was an opinion on Italian type 00 flour. I'm suspecting that it hydrates quicker, and the wood-fired ovens generally need a wetter dough, so that's why it gets all the attention. Since I started making bigas I haven't seen as much of a difference. For anybody on the fence on an outdoor oven: overnight you can slow cook barbecue meats with the oven door shut. They cook just fine, without any attention at all, just from the residual heat.
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May 15, 2012 05:23
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:So I got bored and started reading this thread again, and it got me to thinking. My dad doesn't grill anymore because it's gotten to be too hard on his knees, but he likes pizza and he does like to bake. Would a wood-fired or gas-fired pizza oven be a good gift for him, and if so, what kind? You'd have to put the open upwards near shoulder height or else it might be even worse on his knees than grilling. I am have to squat a little when messing with pizzas in particular. It would probably be a nicer thing to find a way to raise his grill. I know my old Weber kettle is too low. My new one is a built-in that I plan to have at 36 inches. Contrast the grill's height with the kitchen counters inside and see how much your dad likes your counter height. Note that it would be fairly typical to have the pizza oven floor be much higher than a grilling floor. A rule of thumb is that you'd want it at elbow height normally, but that assumes doing that squat. Also note that standing upright then puts strain on the upper body because you're having to rely on them to take things in and out of the oven. That ain't a big deal for pizzas but if you have a really good oven that you're tempted to do lots of baking and roast in, then it'll become a problem. Now to self-aggrandize, I have another week for this oven to cure before I see how well it did. It's a 42" dome brick oven that I built this summer. Aesthetically it's not finished, but it can do its first full-temperature fire next Sunday. My first oven was a cob using pottery clay and pottery sand at my previous house. I missed it so much that I felt the need to build another one:  Clearly I'm in the pizza oven snob zone so take my own crap with a grain of salt, but my opinion on pizza oven selection is this priority: 0. Never get a small, cheap wood fired oven. 0. Do not look into large, heavy gas-fired ovens unless you want to pay for a pro to do it. The sealed up space of such ovens doesn't jibe well with a gas source and you need somebody that knows what they're doing to keep it from randomly bursting into flames from gas pooling off the ceiling. 1. A small, cheap gas-fired oven is probably fine. You can make up for some of the lack of refractory strength by cranking up the gas. 2. A large, heavy wood fired oven is awesome. I would generally recommend people try to do the pottery sand/clay cob oven if they have ~$800-$1200 to blow on concrete, cinder blocks, and such. A lot of our summer cooking completely shifted outside because we suddenly could bake in August without dying in the house.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:56
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Mikey Purp posted:That's dope, did you use the plans from that one site whose name escapes me right now? Probably. I have been active on Forno Bravo and did buy the plan PDF back in the day. The methodology has been refined over time though. The concrete part of the oven floor does not need to be so thick. I did make a variant of "the indispensable tool" to help assess arch curvature and suspend bricks as I laid upper courses. One major refinement was using a cutting jig to angle and bevel cut each brick so that they fit together in circles. This was a pain in the rear end and lead to a neighbor calling the cops on me two evenings from over 250 feet away with both my house and a stone wall between us. The sad thing about Forno Bravo is their forums are far less active now. I am not sure where everybody went--if they didn't just leave. It feels like less people are generally getting into big oven projects and are making do with the smaller little ovens that I see for sale more and more online. I tried searching around before getting into my outdoor kitchen project and could not find a place that was really hopping with pizza oven people. It is nice to have masons floating around to sneak in some tips.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:16
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unknown posted:I built a cob oven a couple of years ago, and there's a bit of a build thread in the DIY forum. looks ugly, but works well. FWIW it looks like my old cob oven performs quite similarly to this brick one. I'm kind of surprised that it isn't dramatically better. I would read stuff on Forno Bravo about these ovens holding their heat for four days. Mine's down to 225 Fahrenheit the morning after. When I inevitably move, what I think I'll do for oven #3 is build a cob dome with a brick landing; I need something more stable for mounting the flue and a front door. My original oven had huge problems at the mouth with the cob wanting to break down. OTOH the oven is in its long-term cure process and might get better than what I had before. On to another topic: I'm having some trouble getting really thin dough. I remembered just now that I had to roll it out way flatter than I wanted because just the act of lifting it up and putting on the peel would cause it to contract somewhat and thicken. I'm wondering though if somebody has a good recipe for a dough that tends to go thin really well. I would want to know all the specifics such as flour brand, any additional gluten thrown on top of it, and the weight of the dry ingredients. I know there is also some technique to it but I think I'm narrowing that down just fine. It's just that I lost my previous recipe so I'm bumbling around to make up for it.
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Oct 31, 2017 18:26
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unknown posted:2 factors - heat sink (ie: material + amount of it) and insulation. It's generally getting warmer than ambient but it's a far cry from hot. I think it was getting up to 90-100 degree Fahrenheit on the first full firing I did when I had finally moved the coals and fire to one side of the oven for baking. Although TBH my old cob over didn't do this. On that one, I had actually gotten some appliance-grade mineral wool sheets and laid that over before I did a layer of perlcrete. Some masonry folks thought it was dubious and the wool might have broken down by now, and I won't know because I moved out ~4 years ago. It makes me wonder though. quote:But I only need it to run for a couple of hours for a single meal, so suits me well. I'm also starting to have issues with the mouth breaking down too. Too much moisture is being absorbed from the doorway when it's not in use. I'll say that building a half-drum of bricks at the mouth of the oven is not a huge deal. That was far from a time sink for me.
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Nov 2, 2017 01:32
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Doom Rooster posted:Neapolitan should be as high a hydration as you feel comfortable working with. Some of the big names in Naples are running 68%+ Mikey Purp posted:Ah, I was reading in some book (maybe Forkish's recent one on pizza) that because neopolitan pies are cooked at such high heat, it's actually better to have a lower hydration because there isn't enough time in the oven for all of the water in a higher hydration dough to get converted to steam. Something along those lines, at least. I had read somewhere that there's some EU legal classification for Neapolitan pizza that calls for 57% hydration. I tried that for my last run through along with using type 00 flour. I could not remember what I used previously from years ago when I last had a pizza oven. It did come out a more dry than I was used to, but the results were much better. I had been using bread flour, a wetter mix, and even more gluten. The result was a really thick, chewy pizza that kept wanting to pull back into a thicker crust after I stretched it. People weren't complaining, but the result wasn't my objective. The drier mix without the additional gluten kept its shape and cooked more thoroughly. I have to emphasize though that I am running these through a 900-degree Fahrenheit oven for 60 seconds. I vaguely recall once using a comically wet dough as a science project; I basically encased it in flour on the rolling mat, and I had to roll it because it was too hard to stretch instead. The result was Bubble City. The kind of pizza thickness I'm aiming for here is one where I can start to see the cutting guidelines on my rolling mat under the dough, and that's without having to roll it.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:21
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It's almost like a bunch of Italians got together to propose a law specifically so they could break it. Edit: I suppose I owe it to myself to try a high hydration while keeping the gluten fairly low. My one fear is that my wife will see a thin layer of wet in the pizza and declare it undercooked.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:31
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Doom Rooster posted:The only time I have ever ended up with even slightly undercooked dough is when as an experiment, I cooked a pie while my oven was hot enough to register an error on my IR thermometer. It reads up to 1050f. The pizza was in there for about 30 seconds, and I never let it sit in one place for more than 5 seconds. I ended up with a little bit of a doughy spot on the on the inside corner of the crust. Yes I have pondered just prebaking one a little and, topping it, and then finishing it. I'm waiting until I have the full outdoor kitchen done to really mess with that because it's very tedious to try that right now. As far as temperatures go, you haven't lived until you've set a pizza on fire that wasn't touching the fire.
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Dec 7, 2017 01:36
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Well, all this talk about pizza hydration and neapolitan pizza rockstars compelled me to order a copy of The Neapolitan Pizza. A Scientific Guide about the Artisanal Process based on some videos I saw of Enzo Coccia. I had to order it from Italian Amazon and triple check that it was the English version. I think there's a more official bookstore but the page didn't translate as well IMO and it was coming up more expensive. Them Euros, man.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:23
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Is everybody here using parchment just baking in conventional ovens? That stuff would be a no-go in a WFO. Parchment is only rated up to around 500F. My mind gets mixed up with contexts between here and places like Forno Bravo so I think I needlessly freak out when parchment comes up.
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Feb 5, 2018 18:41
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You say it's been awhile. Is the yeast old?
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Mar 9, 2018 01:38
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That may be overworking the dough or running short on gluten.
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Mar 11, 2018 02:34
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angor posted:It's essentially a batter. I attempted a few stretch and folds just now and transferred (poured) it into a smaller oiled bowl. I'm going to let it rise and then try and pour it gently into a ripping hot Dutch oven. Will report back! Starting the pizza dough from scratch. I was late to the party, but you could have used it as a biga. IIRC that's what they call a more slurry-like starter. I used to use this a lot and it makes a very bubbly crust. I think I might go back to it.
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Mar 23, 2018 18:39
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You could build a pizza oven... 
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May 5, 2018 18:55
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Apparently what my guests all want are pizzas rolled out flat with no discernible outer crust and weak gluten. Neapolitan with a thin center but narrow, but puffy crust is meh. New York with a smaller outer crust but less thin center is not wanted. However, if I just blow the whole thing away with a roller, then everybody is happy. I ultimately made 18 pizzas that way yesterday.
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May 28, 2018 07:28
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I use a metal peel because I have to spin my pizzas in the pizza oven, and a wooden peel would spontaneously combust if I tried to leopard the pizza near the roof at the end. 
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Jun 1, 2018 05:07
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Pengwin posted:Do you all form your pizzas directly on your peel? This is what I’ve been doing and it works fine, the only downside is I can’t build one pizza until I remove the previous one from the oven (because I need the peel for that).
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Jun 2, 2018 21:17
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I don't have an exact recipe yet, but I tend to work with weight too and just use percentages of weight of dough to represent other ingredients. I think this is even EU-approved: For a given quantity of type OO flour... 57% hydration 2% salt 2% yeast Note: no olive oil. After initial rise, prove individual loaves in 200g rounds. These tend to make 13ish inch Neapolitans. I have seen 3% salt. This is horrible. Run away. You would use more water with other bread flours. I have read 60-70%. I can't vouch for it not due to snobbery, but because type OO got pretty cheap and accessible here recently, so I don't bother. Years ago, I would make a biga with cheap flour and it helped out.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:15
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wormil posted:Edit: I have seen recipes that say all purpose and some that say bread flour -- should it be bread flour? I have added gluten on bread flour after a hiatus when I forgot WTF I used to do. It would snap back and refuse to stretch without a fight. The eventual result had a very big, but delicate outer crust that some breadheads liked a lot more than they wanted to admit. You could smack somebody across the face with it. I saw pictures of some bread Georgians (the country) likes that looked similar.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:32
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wormil posted:Lessons learned: quote:2. My dough shrinks after I press it out, kinda frustrating. But thickness was fine when it cooked. quote:3. I really need a pizza peel. quote:4. Raw tomato for sauce is good. quote:6. Next time I will add a little sugar to the dough. quote:9. Whoever first put basil leaves on pizza was a genius. Crazy how much they shrink though. The pizza in the picture below was covered with big basil leaves.
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Jun 9, 2018 06:23
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wormil posted:Pizza Night #2 was not a success. Same Genaro recipe, all ingredients weighed, but I changed 2 things. Well what do you mean by "cracker-like?" I'm assuming "thin and crunchy." We don't know how much oil you used, so my theory is it replaced some water and made the dough appear wetter than it actually was. Oil can make a bread more moist to a point, but it'll eventually join the cooking process and start crisping up everything. The air could have also just been dryer. This would be a bigger issue in a gas oven. You're also a variable in this since you're one step beyond the "just starting out process." It's a bit easier as time goes on to handle the pizza and make it flatter. So you might have started out with a thinner pizza this time.
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Jun 19, 2018 20:51
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wormil posted:Like a saltine cracker. The oil was however much oil it takes to brush a light coat over dough so not very much. I'll try again like the first time and see how it goes. How wet were the dough balls when it was time to form the pizzas? Last gotcha, we're you rolling them out? If so, can you recall how much flour you used up there?
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Jun 20, 2018 07:12
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wormil posted:Dough was very wet. Did not use a roller, just my hands. All I really got left is differences in thickness and cooking factors like humidity and time. Well... are you sure it was water you used? Maybe it was sand.
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Jun 20, 2018 18:49
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cr0y posted:Whats everyones take on the pizzacraft stove stop oven?
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Aug 20, 2018 15:05
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I. M. Gei posted:I got a stone. Now I have a question about tomatoes. San Marzano is regarded as more authentic for Neapolitan pizzas, but both are good tomatoes for sauces overall. If I remember right, the San Marzano would be better for laying out in ribbons on a Neapolitan pizza if you weren't going to use sauce since it breaks down a bit flimsier. Note that I'm rambling about Neapolitan pizza a lot here; none of these really matters outside of that particular domain. You can smash the two varietals together in your sauce for all it matters.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:18
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I. M. Gei posted:I guess I’m just a little confused because I thought San Marzanos were... y’know, bigger. San Marzanos are generally oblong so their size can be confused due to their shape. I don't think they are particularly large, but that is in a world where we are used to BEEFSTEAK tomatoes and stuff like that which isn't really pizza-friendly anyways. It's moot if you're making sauce with them.
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Oct 27, 2018 20:32
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I. M. Gei posted:I maaaaaay have overkneaded my pizza dough. It’s springing back when I press on it, but when I fold it it doesn’t really mix into itself, if that makes any sense; it’s kinda like folding doughy paper. It also tears when I try to stretch it (i.e. it doesn’t pass the windowpane test).
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Oct 27, 2018 23:26
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I couldn't get a sack of my regular type 00 flour at the supermarket right before Thanksgiving. I guess everybody else had the same idea. Even the bulk bin was pretty well cleaned out. I had a backup sack at home but drat.
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Nov 25, 2018 19:47
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Having done the 70-75% hydration recipes a few times, I think the general consensus here is that people don't really like it. The result is kind of soggy and floppy in something getting fired in the 700-900F range. So I wind up having to keep the pies towards the mouth of the oven to in effect dry out and get a little more structure. It isn't quite like this with 55% hydration, so I think I'll roll it back.
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Dec 27, 2018 09:12
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What kind of flour did you end up using? Hydration %, hydration method, flour type, and flour quality are related to each other. Generally, a poorer flour quality or inappropriate flour type will require either more hydration or more tricks to improve hydration (bigas and other presoaking methods). I ask disregarding what was put in the recipe since some people blow that off, use AP with gluten, use generic flour, go for type 00, and sometimes go for a real high-end bread flour. It's very volatile. The other problem with this is you can say what you used, but the recipe doesn't. It just instructs to use bread flour. The hydration comparing raw ounces was about 60% in the recipe, which I believe is the low end for bread flour hydration. I previously posted I'm rolling back my hydration but that's also because I'm using type 00 at 900 degrees for one minute. I'd get a soggy strip through the pizza. Type 00 for that quick of a cook traditionally calls for ~55% hydration. A low-quality or inappropriate class of flour would take 70+ percent hydration to behave well. I'd just monkey with the water first before playing with oil particularly because you're hoping for bigger bubbles. It would also be useful to know how hard it was to work with the dough, if you had to beat the poo poo out of it with a rolling pin, then it was probably too dry--if it wasn't just cold or not rested.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:30
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Doom Rooster posted:What kind of pizza are you trying to make? From the 900 degrees for one minute, and using 00 flour, it sounds like Neapolitan, but 55% is bone dry for a Neapolitan. I typically run 61%-64% depending on the weather and that's still on the very low end. Most places in Naples are going 68%+. http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/public/pdf/disciplinare%202008%20UK.pdf I calculate around 57% for that, I guess, so I am advocating a little lower than normal, but 68%+ is too high for tradition and  EU regulation . I thought it was in this thread itself where there was some talk about everybody starting to diverge and go wetter. Well, I tried it myself and I wind up with floppy pizzas with a wet strip inside. Our guests generally have responded better to the dryer crust too. It has more structure for the size. If I were baking for longer, I could understand going for a wetter crust because there's a bit more time for the water to do something during the bake.If I go for something more like a New York pizza that runs a few minutes more at the 600-degree range, then that kind of hydration does make a little more sense. I have to usually position those towards the front because I've usually get the whole mess running at incineration temperature. Human Tornada posted:I used King Arthur Unbleached Bread Flour. I'm also obsessing over hydration but it could have been an issue with overproofing. When you say it was so easy to stretch, it makes me think that was possible. Generally, overproofed breads will have smaller bubbles.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:51
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I. M. Gei posted:I’m not sure about that. All three of my dough balls sat on the counter for between like 2.5 and 3 hours in a 70° house and they didn’t seem to have any trouble rising. If the dough never got below room temperature, and you did one rest as individual balls before forming, then it's possible to be able to shape it without an intermediate rest. It takes a certain tact so it's going to be easier to start on them and then revisit them a few minutes later, but you could do it. I wonder about the original knead. Did it pass the windowpane test?
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Mar 13, 2019 20:25
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I. M. Gei posted:... and I’m wondering where the gently caress to get any of these flours in a non-ridiculous quantity? No stores in my area sell them, and everything I’m seeing on Amazon is big bags repackaged into smaller bags by random assholes, which is sketchy as gently caress. Alternately, if there is a higher end grocery store near you that still won't order any on the list, you can get data sheets from at least King Arthur and compare with what they have--especially if they have a bakery department. You will probably have to talk to somebody over the phone during a time of day of their specific shift. Important considerations IIRC are ash content, gluten, and roughly which season of wheat used (summer vs. winter). You may get one not on that list that functionally is compatible. Or you might get two kinds and blend them with a boost of gluten or something.
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Apr 27, 2019 05:16
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You can get a good sear on some steak in a brick oven. Just let the coals soak into the bricks towards the front for a bit, push them back with a hoe, puff away the ash with a pipe, and let er' rip.
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May 2, 2019 16:59
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Happiness Commando posted:I made pizza at Burning Man, and let me tell you two things: I can imagine what you mean but for the sake of people that are reading, I would recommend for people looking into this for normal, stationary use to go only as small as 30". Of course, you're trying to use something portable so anything goes. Anyways, I'm curious about this whole thing with wood pellets because I haven't seen that before. I just looked it up and I guess one manufacturer is doing that, but I didn't see anything from FB itself endorsing it. I really haven't worked with wood pellets for anything so I have a certain mental model that is probably flawed. It just feels like the kind of thing where you don't get easily-movable coals to shift around. What I imagine from wood pellets is that all these little pellets are producing their own mounds of ash as they go, and there's no grate under them through which the ash can fall, so you just get this mound of ash and embers that's too hot to casually brush out and too cold to move around to recharge the interior. For a 24" I can see why you don't want to feed it wood because it's just taking up so much room, but you should still be able to use wood chunks. Specifically, up to 4" bits of wood--not the wood chips since I think you'd have a similar problem. Fun fact: While looking this up, I found charcoal will void Forno Bravo's warranty. Interesting. I just post on their forums based on a handmade Pompeii-style oven so I don't have to contend with that, but it sounds like you do. I was going to suggest that instead. Even if you wanted to mostly stick with pellets, I would still recommend keeping around a few gnarled up blocks of wood. I always throw one in mine when firing up to serve as "the yule log." It'll burn forever and functions as a pilot light and illumination at night. If the oven is cooling down too early, I can lean some more fuel against the yule log and get things moving again.
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Sep 14, 2019 23:28
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VERTiG0 posted:Made a batch of dough on Saturday that I've got in my fridge still, in a steel bowl covered with saran wrap. I need to freeze it or use it. What could I do with it besides pizzas that you'd recommend? My wife and I are totally pizza'd out after this past week (heresey, I know). Freezing it is the safest bet and sticking to similar flatbreads is second-best (focaccia, naan). More exotic flatbread choices would include flammekeuke, Catalan coca, or Lahmucan. But if you really can't stomach another flatbread and don't want to make breadsticks out of it, then you can get into shenanigans to transform the dough. If the dough has been through all its rests then you'll ultimately be making something a bit funky. If you're suffering cabin fever right now, then it's probably fine anyways. If you have some spare gluten then you could probably up the hydration and do any variety of lean dough from the pizza dough. To go even further, I've had luck with a method of enriching dough where I knead the dough for a bit first before adding all the fat. The theory is that fat coats the proteins and makes it harder for the gluten to activate in enriched doughs. So you might be in a good place to do something like that right now as the dough is definitely read for fat. Going in the direction of a brioche dough would give you danishes or kolaches. Type 00 flour is also used for pasta, so if you have a bunch of eggs, you could set them loose. However, the hydration if probably too high on the existing dough to make it into a pasta and you'll have to add more flour. You're then dealing with cutting it. I would consider this as inferior to keeping it as a bread.
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Mar 25, 2020 22:20
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:What is the trick to making a pizza with a thin crust but a thick edge? Do I just pinch a ridge around the whole thing and use more dough on the edge? Fundamentally, you'll have to toss the dough by hand rather than roll it out. If you work all the parts of the dough except for the very perimeter, you'll have that thicker, outer ring. If you are having some trouble with it then try a more hydrated dough. Just slide both sides around in some flour before handling and that should offset the extra stickiness. I've been experimenting with a higher hydration lately and it comes with its own flaws. They're not browning as well now, but it encourages me to keep the pizzas in the pizza oven longer. This appeases my wife who thinks I tend to make them underdone. The crust will develop a lot more little boils, which would be something of an authenticity flaw, but I haven't met a person that didn't prefer them. BraveUlysses posted:bakingsteel seems to still sell them but they are OOS right now till may. I'm not really focused on baking steel at all but now you got me going on a griddle. I want to slap one in my grill to get some more miles out of it. Also, maybe one on my big burner. I love me some smashburgers. I didn't really think that a baking steel place would be a good source for them!
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Apr 18, 2020 17:32
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I. M. Gei posted:Hello? The BGE isn't my thing and I haven't worked with baking steels so I just stayed away, but you know I can bullshit a lot. For the sake of everybody else though, it would be useful to know how the crust is burning. It doesn't sound like you're completely obliterating the pizzas, so there's some part that isn't cooking before the other parts turn into charcoal. I'll just guess and you can tell me where I'm incorrect. I'm guessing the bottom is blackening before the top finishes. I'm guessing the heat is under the steel and there isn't direct heat on top. Reducing the heat just makes the pizzas take forever and you get something that is paradoxically a raw cracker. If it's not a bunch of money or whatever and you're stuck with using a steel then how about... two steels? If they're just together then I would think the extra thermal mass will smooth out the heat from the fire. Or alternately you warm them up together and then tong one on top of a set of firebricks to create an upper warmer. I've heard of this but you're always risking bumping the bricks and causing the steel to collapse on top of your pizza right when you're pulling it out. Or heck, if you can fit the thin firebricks in the BGE then you can put your steel on top of that. I think the time it'll take to charge will be frustrating though. If the sides of the pizza aren't burning then I'd wonder if you can distribute the fuel to the edges so that it can see the top of the egg's dome lid and bounce down onto the pizza. A final, desperate move: find the flour with the lowest ash content you can and increase your baker's hydration by 10% or more. This is based on some discussions I've had with the local mill about pizza and flour. They found that their flours that had higher ash contents were easier to burn, and I unfortunately had confirmed that. They had said that they recommended increasing the hydration. The theory is that extra "stuff" that comprises the ash content is hogging water that would otherwise be steaming itself out in the heat.
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May 19, 2020 07:15
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People like to fight about New York, Chicago, and Detroit pizzas, but it's refreshing to see the Iowan pizza in the wild.
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May 20, 2020 03:19
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ColHannibal posted:I always keep the Nebraska pizza in my back pocket from the year I lived there. This is disgusting but I'm curious how double the double pepperoni was. This could be even worse.
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May 20, 2020 03:44
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