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Frog Act posted:
Don’t worry, this only increases as you read more Finley-Day. It should come as no surprise to you that he created nearly all of Battle's "honourable German" stories and most of his stories featured at least one racially stereotyped character. Bill Savage in Invasion is also absolutely a man who would have voted to leave the EU despite being a lorry driver and the evil of the invading Volgans - who are coded as Russian but frequently depicted as Mongolian - is first shown by them summarily executing Margaret Thatcher. On the other foot, Finley-Day did also create Darkhawk, a story about a black man who becomes a Roman centurion. And his most famous creation, the Rogue Trooper, is the ultimate slave, having been created purely to fight other people's wars and designed so that even death wouldn't end his service.
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Nov 14, 2023 12:12
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Jedit posted:Don’t worry, this only increases as you read more Finley-Day. It should come as no surprise to you that he created nearly all of Battle's "honourable German" stories and most of his stories featured at least one racially stereotyped character. Bill Savage in Invasion is also absolutely a man who would have voted to leave the EU despite being a lorry driver and the evil of the invading Volgans - who are coded as Russian but frequently depicted as Mongolian - is first shown by them summarily executing Margaret Thatcher. Yeah I started with Rogue Trooper which is actually pretty thematically sophisticated and consistent with my expectations for 2000 AD stuff. The war is totally pointless, it's environmental impact and dystopian administrative structures are constantly emphasized, there's no meaningful ideological distinction between the factions grinding one another down, etc. I guess that's why I've been so surprised as I've gone through his other stuff and slowly concluded he's just a straight up racist. Like, Hellman of Hammer force includes a lot of stuff that's just an uncritical reproduction of nazi racial coding on top of the extremely unpleasant clean Wehrmacht stuff that's all over the place, and it seems to get worse the deeper I go. I got the best of GFD hardback recently for Harry on the High Rock, which I hadn't read and isn't printed elsewhere, and that was also pretty loving offensive in a lot of slightly more subtle ways. I've got a copy of Invasion 1984 coming in my next order, looking forward to reading it and learning more about GFD and the worse-people-than-Pat-Mills writers of the era. Very unexpectedly, as much as I enjoy war comics, the old Misty comics are quickly becoming my favorites. I got the Jaume Remeu collection recently and I really, really love his style of art. It's also one of the most interesting Rebellion books in that it has a bunch of genuinely substantial academic essays emanating from literary PhDs discussing the book, it's much more interesting than most of the framing material they provide. I'm also slowly moving through a bunch of even older Tom Tully stuff and I really like him. He's like if Finley-Day possessed meaningful class consciousness instead of weird chauvinism. The Steel Claw books are great fun and after reading most of Leopard From Lime Street it's the only superhero comic I've ever actually finished. 10,000 Disasters of Dort is a lot of fun so far too, just really silly classic pulp stuff.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:47
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Jedit posted:Bill Savage in Invasion is also absolutely a man who would have voted to leave the EU despite being a lorry driver and the evil of the invading Volgans - who are coded as Russian but frequently depicted as Mongolian - is first shown by them summarily executing Margaret Thatcher. Funny enough, I'm pretty sure there was a one-off parody that 2000 AD published (before the series revival) where Savage faces off against the EU instead of the Volgans.
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Nov 14, 2023 18:56
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While we're on the subject of 2000 AD deep cuts with problematic material, this came in the mail today. Got the last copy from Oxford for only $25, which is extremely fair for a 13 year old book that was never even priced in USD (on the back, at least). Mills, Tully, and Bellardinelli are my three favorites affiliated with any of these things so I'm excited to see where it goes. Less familiar with Gibbon but I'm sure I'll recognize his stuff when I come across it
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Nov 15, 2023 19:49
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There sure is a lot of 2000AD stuff to read, I don't know how much I'll get to in my lifetime. I've been into it since 2006, and I'm on Dredd Case Files 26 (around 1997) for example. I've got stacks of so many cool looking 2000AD titles I've barely read. When I first got into it nearly 20 years ago it was scans, so I'd read Dredd and flip through the rest to get a feel for what was in there. So I vaguely remember flipping through Harlem Heroes and all the other 70s-80s titles. My thought is, do you have the same big backlog of stuff to check out (say Strontium Dog, Wagner in general, Nikolai Dante, Abnett stuff, Mills series), etc? And if you've got that epic 2000AD backlog as well, what drew you to say the misfits of the bunch and even more obscure stuff from that scene at the time? Especially stuff you're expecting to be a bit lame or messed up in some way anyway, though I get it would still be a curiosity with charm. I think it's great you're enjoying any comic, just an excuse to talk 2000AD and share my experience with it. And in general, outside of 2000AD, the backlog thing is wild. For example lately I've been setting a goal to try and read 300 or 400 comics in a year. Since I've had some light years where I fell off and only read like 30 or 40 comics. (Also for the 2000AD thing or any shorter comic, I combine them to around 20 pages to count as a comic for this metric, so 4 of the 6 page Dredds etc.) So even if I did read 400 comics a year, roughly 8000 pages, I don't know how many decades it would take to really make a dent in the backlog of awesome comics I'm interested in. Just wild. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 22:50
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Frog Act posted:While we're on the subject of 2000 AD deep cuts with problematic material, this came in the mail today. Got the last copy from Oxford for only $25, which is extremely fair for a 13 year old book that was never even priced in USD (on the back, at least). Mills, Tully, and Bellardinelli are my three favorites affiliated with any of these things so I'm excited to see where it goes. Less familiar with Gibbon but I'm sure I'll recognize his stuff when I come across it Thankfully it doesn't go anywhere particularly bad, although the sequels are pretty dire. It's also a Dredd prequel: John "Giant" Clay is the grandfather of Judge Giant. And what's with this "less familiar with Dave Gibbons" shite? Gibbons is by a long way the most famous name on that cover purely because he illustrated Watchmen.
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Nov 16, 2023 03:10
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Heavy Metal posted:There sure is a lot of 2000AD stuff to read, I don't know how much I'll get to in my lifetime. I've been into it since 2006, and I'm on Dredd Case Files 26 (around 1997) for example. No that’s a totally fair question I’ve often asked myself - like why am I reading a totally forgotten and poorly reviewed Jinty special called “A Spell of Trouble” instead of Brink/Nicolai Dante/Dredd (only up to CCF 7)? I don’t know that I’ve ever given myself a very good answer but I think a big part of it is the intersection of novelty, niche, and historical relevance. Historical trends as expressed via the medium of pop culture is something that has always fascinated me and I wasted enough time in college getting an MA in the field that I can’t help but tend towards finding things I really enjoy and then subjecting them to a kind of historical contextual analysis, but it’s hard to decide whether I enjoy them generally or on account of that particular context. I think also I got into the medium in a weird way. Nemesis two years ago was what showed me comics could be more than superheroes and then a year later I had all of Mills’s books at stupid expense, Corto Maltese, etc and felt like I had read a lot of the stuff I knew was perfect for me and I’d never top and became fascinated thinking about their antecedents. I have a percolating idea in the back of my head to write a monograph about radically transgressive science fiction in the 80s and the history of mainstream social allegory in sequential art and the way fictionalized history influences popular views of the field and I feel like these books offer a more incisive and accessible source material than American stuff, which is so numerous (and, imo, bad) that I wouldn’t know where to start. I think I’m particularly interested in the stuff that isn’t quite bad but also isn’t exactly good - like the Trigan books, Karl the Viking, 10,000 Disasters of Dort, Jinty, Jane Bond, Steel Commando, Hellman, etc - for the specific kind of above-referenced historical-political insight. It’s a view into a sort of low art expression of the way people then understood historical causality, demographics, geopolitics, satire etc that’s made so much more interesting for its flaws. Even the one or two actually truly bad books - which for my money are only Loner and Turbo Jones, which ironically introduced me to the Treasury - offer some valuable insights along those lines. It’s not usually good allegory like Mills or Wagner and certainly doesn’t even approach the timelessly mythological qualities Corto Maltese possesses (but I think those are the best thing done in the medium ever) and for that reason in a way it feels more relevant than those comparatively rarified greats. It’s also fascinating how forgotten they are. I just got the best of Jane Bond webshop hardback (only $12 goddamn) and there’s no credited author because the artist died in ‘76 and nobody remembers their name. Also got the TOBC annual 24 in the same box and that has a fabulous story from Buster, which itself seems totally forgotten outside of publishing one or two other very small stories also now owned by the Treasury. Stuff like that just really gets me going I WFH and am a gigantic loser so I read a lot and up until my last couple months of orgiastic unrestrained 2000 AD purchases I actually didn’t have a backlog at all, but now I have like five books I haven’t started and twice as many I’m halfway through. Something I’ve learned as a comparatively new reader is that juggling a bunch of different stories is totally viable with comics, like you can just kinda pick them back in a way that you can’t with books, so it’s easier to browse and sort of slowly burrow through 20+ books at a time while somehow not losing track of anything owing to the cadence and nature of the stories. Seems like that’s something everyone does to some degree or another. Also I got a copy of the Complete Johnny Future and it is totally ridiculous, even knowing the premise I didn’t anticipate it’d be that silly. Sorry if this post is a bit incoherent btw I had to have my cat of 13 years put down this morning and I’m just trying to distract myself some, wanted to respond earlier but he was so sick I couldn’t gather myself. Jedit posted:Thankfully it doesn't go anywhere particularly bad, although the sequels are pretty dire. It's also a Dredd prequel: John "Giant" Clay is the grandfather of Judge Giant. Oh neat, that explains the weird pseudo-megacity vibes that seem to be present, but it must be a pre-war thing since there are still plenty of distinctive modern cities with teams. As for Dave Gibbons I totally didn’t realize that until you mentioned it but I think that’s just a reflection of my spotty comics knowledge, I read Watchmen decades ago and liked it but it was just a kind of one off like with Maus, Persepolis, V for Vendetta, Transmet, etc fairly mainstream things I found via being a scifi fan and then read without re-engaging with the medium. Actually being interested in comics has been recent enough that I have this kind of lopsided thing going on where I can tell people a lot about British comics in the 60s-80s but don’t know dick about more basic stuff Frog Act fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 22:47
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Good answer! Well said, cool stuff. And I should mix it up more with less top of my list stuff too. On American comics, since you mentioned, I'll throw out some favs just for fun: Savage Dragon and Invincible, superhero books but they have creator owned integrity and a freewheeling wildness that appeals to me (as a 2000AD fan). Plus Science Dog could go near Strontium Dog on your shelf. And on those wild and possibly flawed but historically awesome things etc, Frank Miller's hits if you haven't, naturally. Like Sin City, Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One, and his Daredevil stuff. And for more retro epic and weird great stuff, Chris Claremont's 1970s-1990 X-Men run is excellent. And indie classics like the 80s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Eastman/Laird) and Usagi Yojimbo. And there's always some cool noir stuff like Cobra: The Last Laugh by Costa/Gage and Criminal or Reckless etc by Brubaker and Phillips. I've gotta read more comics yes indeed, so much cool stuff. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 23:07
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Yo Frog, your posts have been my fav thing in BSS for a while now so keep ‘em coming. Never thought I’d see anyone bring up Buster or the Leopard of Lime Street round here, it’s all stuff I grew up with but is now a half-remembered dream at best. It’s also shaming me into getting around and trying to pick up a Charley’s War collection at some point because I bounced off it hard as a kid, it was always the most ‘boring’ part of my weekly comics binge, why’s this kid so miserable, [skips to Johnny Red], etc.
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Nov 18, 2023 11:36
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Heavy Metal posted:And there's always some cool noir stuff like Cobra: The Last Laugh by Costa/Gage and Criminal or Reckless etc by Brubaker and Phillips. I've gotta read more comics yes indeed, so much cool stuff. If you like Brubaker then you should try Velvet, his James Bond pastiche set in the 1960s with the high concept "What if Moneypenny was the real super-spy?"
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Nov 18, 2023 12:02
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Very cool, I've gotta read that for sure. I haven't read most of his stuff yet but I've got a bunch of it, quite prolific those guys.
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Nov 18, 2023 14:40
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Heavy Metal posted:Good answer! Well said, cool stuff. And I should mix it up more with less top of my list stuff too. Hell yeah thanks buddy, I literally haven’t read a single thing you’ve listed here but they’re all things I’ve always had at least a passing interest in or sound cool as poo poo. X-Men has been a particular challenge for me as I was born in 1990 so I grew up half assedly collecting the like goofy beach vacation cards, watching the show, bought the action figures, and I even read one trade comic when I was like eight but it’s just too big to figure out as an adult so that seems like a great starting point. The only Miller I’ve read is Ronin - which I quite liked - so I’ve been meaning to check out his work It’s also funny you mention invincible I’ve been avoiding it as I am a weird outlier (I guess from what I see online) in that I’m a fan of the original Boys comic and appreciate what Ennis was doing there even if it’s gratuitous by any standard and problematic by any modern one, so I’d always kinda ignored it as a pale imitator. I started the show last night by sheer coincidence and was getting bored/annoyed and figured I wouldn’t watch the second episode before the Thing happened with Omni-Man, and that piqued my interest along with JK Simmons. It’s better than I expected so I’m definitely gonna check out the comic soon I appreciate the recs, I do plan to broaden my horizons one day especially since I’ve accumulated like half of the TOBC library already Sentinel Red posted:Yo Frog, your posts have been my fav thing in BSS for a while now so keep ‘em coming. Never thought I’d see anyone bring up Buster or the Leopard of Lime Street round here, it’s all stuff I grew up with but is now a half-remembered dream at best. Genuinely warms my heart to know other posters besides the handful of us who’ve been talking about it the last few pages appreciate them! I was concerned I was just rambling to myself at first and since I don’t know a single soul IRL who is familiar with it (I stopped at a local comic shop today and the lady had never heard of 2000 AD, third time that’s happened) this thread is a major outlet for me Also I totally understand that about Charley’s War, I’m ashamed to confess that I haven’t finished it yet either - I’m exactly halfway through the series but it’s just so relentlessly sad and evinces a specific kind of affinity for the suffering of the working classes under the yoke of industrial bourgeois and the aristocracy that I can’t binge it for too long. That being said every time I do read a few issues I’m stuck for a bit afterwards dwelling on how it set a standard for war comics that has yet to be matched Jedit posted:If you like Brubaker then you should try Velvet, his James Bond pastiche set in the 1960s with the high concept "What if Moneypenny was the real super-spy?" Putting this on my list too because “well executed Jane Bond” sounds great Frog Act fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 22:14
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Right on, that's rad. Gotta love comics 
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Nov 19, 2023 00:30
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In regards to Frank Miller, if you only ever read one Daredevil story it should be Born Again. If you like Garth Ennis I can't recommend his run on Hellblazer strongly enough.
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Nov 19, 2023 09:42
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Air Skwirl posted:In regards to Frank Miller, if you only ever read one Daredevil story it should be Born Again. If you like Garth Ennis I can't recommend his run on Hellblazer strongly enough. His first run; he came back for a single arc later on that is not as good. And I wouldn't say his first run was perfect either; after Dangerous Habits - which is a must-read - the stories are very repetitive. It's the characters that carry the Ennis Run.
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Nov 19, 2023 11:47
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Air Skwirl posted:In regards to Frank Miller, if you only ever read one Daredevil story it should be Born Again. If you like Garth Ennis I can't recommend his run on Hellblazer strongly enough. When Miller was full on brain worms a while back people tried the 'he was always bad, actually' and no, no he wrote Born Again. It's an easy lock Daredevil story and if you said it was your favorite Marvel story or even just comic story I wouldn't argue.
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Nov 19, 2023 16:58
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Jedit posted:His first run; he came back for a single arc later on that is not as good. And I wouldn't say his first run was perfect either; after Dangerous Habits - which is a must-read - the stories are very repetitive. It's the characters that carry the Ennis Run. I always forget about Son of Man, which yeah, isn't great.
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Nov 19, 2023 19:15
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I just finished re-reading Invincible and I had forgotten how fashy it gets towards the end. I wonder how many of Mark's stupid decisions will make it into the TV show? Speaking of TV, I noticed that Matt Fraction is credited as "creator" for the new Godzilla show. Good for him I guess, though I'd prefer if he wrote some more comics!
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Nov 22, 2023 03:53
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Hoping Uber Invasion finishes next year.
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Nov 22, 2023 04:00
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Lol Does Avatar even exist anymore
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Nov 22, 2023 04:40
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Their website and webstore haven't updated since like 2021 so if they're publishing books they're not selling them direct.
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Nov 22, 2023 06:35
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They definitely still exist as a company since they appear on the weekly shipping lists every so often. Nothing they're publishing seems to be anything but reprints, though.
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Nov 22, 2023 14:16
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Physical editions of Valiant's (final?) Eternal Warrior book are shipping and I'm scared because I already read the PDF version and it kinda sucked. Kickstarter uses those happy - meh - sad faces for gathering feedback, but where's the "I regret this decision" button?
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Nov 22, 2023 16:40
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So I just had a copy of All-Star Future Shocks arrive and I’m curious about this one, because it seems to have been totally removed from 2000 AD’s catalogue. Given how heavily marketed the recent future shocks collections were, plus the terror tales and scifi thrillers books being more problematic/older than this one but still being acknowledged makes me wonder why this particular book has been memory holed Also I think Tharg’s favorite shock must be Superbean, the bizarre one-off joke from Alan Moore about a green bean superhero, because it’s printed in three out of six future shock and related collections
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Nov 22, 2023 21:02
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 Hoo boy, this could be a rough one.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:35
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Chinston Wurchill posted:
Read WE3 if you want a hard hitting story of abandoned pets.
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Nov 30, 2023 11:30
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I absolutely cannot handle sad cats in literature. Everything else is fine, but that's the red line where I go from enjoying a well-crafted allegory to actually suffering myself, which is too bad because I've heard both that and WE3 are really good. Anyway I don't know anyone else who might appreciate this but I recently learned that Lion, home of Robot Archie, Karl the Viking, The Spider, and countless other characters I've come to really enjoy over the last year, used to publish an "annual" hardback every year, a collection of what they thought were their best strips etc. I guess that's what the Treasury of British Comics is trying to do with their own annual releases, which I totally endorse and indeed really enjoyed the 2024 one. I guess there were a ton of copies printed and/or nobody gives a gently caress about these comics anymore because the Lion annuals are all over eBay for super low prices. I spent $35 for these two which are en route and I'm super stoked on:   They seem to be $10-$20 each (though there was a version of the 1982 annual for $160 on eBay, I paid $14 for one that isn't "very fine" or whatever) and if they're what I'm hoping for I think I might have to pursue an even more weird niche thing and start accumulating as many of them as I can, since it turns out finding a copy of every Warhammer Monthly ever printed would be prohibitively expensive 
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Nov 30, 2023 15:40
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Frog Act posted:
Oh my, I didn’t realise that people weren't aware of the annuals. They were such a staple of Christmas morning when I was a kid that I never stopped to think about them. The annuals - at least the IPC annuals for 2000AD and Judge Dredd (who had his own) - were not a "highlights of the year" thing. They were about half and half split with reprints versus special features and new stories - and frequently in full colour. For example, the 1982 2000AD annual had reprints of the first three parts of Flesh, an early Dredd strip and a MACH-1 story, but also had original Dredd, Ro-Busters and Strontium Dog stories plus a Future Shock. All the original Dredd stories from the annuals have been reprinted in the four volumes of Judge Dredd: The Restricted Files and I think things like Strontium Dog and Ro-Busters got folded into their main run reprint books, but a lot of the "annual originals" were never reprinted.
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Nov 30, 2023 16:10
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Oh yeah! One of the very best things about Christmas was deffo ANNUAL TIME! Popping to Smiths and just hoovering up as many as I could, Battle, Eagle, Whizzer & Chips, Buster, Transformers, The Dandy, The Beano, Topper, even the strange, mysterious works of *The Scotch* like Oor Wullie, which weren't generally available down here the rest of the year. There was a Battle annual with my favourite non-Hama Snake Eyes story ever, he gets shot down on a flight home and Destro takes a squad to mop up - it was basically Predator a couple of years before the film came out. And an Eagle annual (I think?) with a kid mates with some kids from outer space in a red & white chequered spaceship, they got a really great artist for the annual story, it just popped amazingly. Man, I miss annuals, and being excited for Christmas in general.
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Nov 30, 2023 16:41
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Jedit posted:Oh my, I didn’t realise that people weren't aware of the annuals. They were such a staple of Christmas morning when I was a kid that I never stopped to think about them. Sentinel Red posted:Oh yeah! One of the very best things about Christmas was deffo ANNUAL TIME! Popping to Smiths and just hoovering up as many as I could, Battle, Eagle, Whizzer & Chips, Buster, Transformers, The Dandy, The Beano, Topper, even the strange, mysterious works of *The Scotch* like Oor Wullie, which weren't generally available down here the rest of the year. There was a Battle annual with my favourite non-Hama Snake Eyes story ever, he gets shot down on a flight home and Destro takes a squad to mop up - it was basically Predator a couple of years before the film came out. And an Eagle annual (I think?) with a kid mates with some kids from outer space in a red & white chequered spaceship, they got a really great artist for the annual story, it just popped amazingly. Oh gently caress that sounds great. I can’t believe how cheap these are and knowing there are 2000 AD and Eagle ones as well gets my motor running big time. I’m very excited at the prospect of finding comics from those publications that haven’t been reprinted in the interim/didn’t survive to the present day and I’m double pumped knowing they’re not just yearly collections or articles or something. I’ll post ITT when I get em and let people know what kind of stories I find inside, I’m having a lot of fun digging these things up and enjoying them in their own right only to come to this thread and learn what feels like a weird esoteric historical mystery to me is just happy Christmas memories for you guys
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Nov 30, 2023 18:15
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The new Nemesis, Fiends of the Eastern Front, and Helltrekkers hardbacks showed up this morning. They’re all really high quality which is nice, the Robo-Hunter collection I got recently wasn’t just kind of lame, it had a half torn cover and had been knocked around a lot. These are sturdier and well-manifested, Nemesis in particular really benefits from the oversize format. I’ve never read Fiends or Helltrekkers but I expect GFD to racistly contort himself into a situation where vampires are bad for eating Einsatzgruppe and Helltrekkers to be my favorite Dredd stuff, stories unrelated to the judges
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Dec 7, 2023 17:46
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A new year, a new comic book indie jonesing yes indeed. That new Conan stuff and GI Joe stuff looks cool. Nice that Usagi Yojimbo is back and kicking rear end (I am in the 80s on that title but collecting the trades). Savage Dragon's super sized wedding issue hits this month, that's good stuff. Judge Dredd is cool, John Wagner is the best I wonder what he'll put out this year. He's had this sci-fi detective story Spector going again lately.
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Jan 6, 2024 02:17
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Cobra commander is wild and fun. Everything in this new shared universe is so crazy, I love it. Does the regular Joe series start after the Duke and cc mini?
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Jan 17, 2024 16:15
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I've been meaning to check those out, but had a stay in the hospital. Last year my wife bought me the Marvel Joe silent issue. I prefer the cowl look for CC, but both costumes are timeless designs.
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Jan 17, 2024 18:11
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Kingtheninja posted:Cobra commander is wild and fun. Everything in this new shared universe is so crazy, I love it. Does the regular Joe series start after the Duke and cc mini? we're getting another 2 minis later this year (about who we don't know yet); presumably an ongoing will start sometime afterwards
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Jan 19, 2024 22:45
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The badass panels thread is talking about K6BD. Is there a reason why they stopped collecting it?
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Jan 20, 2024 01:58
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Image Comics are a bunch of meanies.
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Jan 20, 2024 12:37
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I thought it was just operant not having time to do the work required to release the other collected editions.
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Jan 20, 2024 23:23
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He writes RPGs to relax, I don’t know if he would let it go by if he wanted it and it was able. But he posts in that thread on occasion, so maybe he can answer if he sees it. If I wasn’t on my phone and at work, I’d just quote this convo in that thread.
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Jan 21, 2024 04:14
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One thing I find interesting, a lot of kinda cool looking comics completely fly under the radar. Even by big creators. Jimmy Palmiotti and co. had a humblebundle I just missed that got me curious, apparently he's done over a dozen kickstarter titles. One of them called Pop Kill about a soda war or something with Dave Johnson looks great, 4 issues. Doesn't have a goodreads page or amazon version or anything. Just kinda funny since it looks like one of his more entertaining high quality books, but it's not sold in many forms. Could buy it from his website digital, though 6.99 an issue is a bit y'know (though double length). But I am picking up this sci-fi comic Denver they did on the site. And in general, any kickstarter exclusive-ish comics that you've found really good?
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Jan 21, 2024 23:58
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