China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

A big flaming stink posted:

What happens if you test positive for tuberculosis in an American red state.

The cops will put you under effectively house arrest

TB is massively different from COVID. The bacillus can render you infectious for weeks or months, and is a bitch to cure.

And it's the public health service putting you in quarantine. The cops just enforce it.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2021 23:31

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 08:01

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Cease to Hope posted:

that is my whole argument here, nobody's pro-Britain

You want proof, head over to the UKMT.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2022 08:23

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

BrigadierSensible posted:

Ahem. Ginger Spice would beg to differ.

She was however, clearly a traitor to the UK

# ¿ Jan 8, 2022 08:31

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

BrigadierSensible posted:

I think it's a pleasant change that the people prepared to say "whatabout X country" are using a different country to the USA this time.

Doesn't make it right, or them clever. But it's a refreshing change.

Liz has been head of state for SIX DECADES and has never once been subjected to democratic selection!!!!!

# ¿ Jan 15, 2022 23:40

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Red and Black posted:

Maybe Jarmak isn't a racist, but my intuition (and my reading his posts) led me to believe this is essentially his rationale.

Maybe you aren't calling Jarmak a racist, but my intuition (and my reading of your post) led me to believe this is essentially your rationale.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2022 20:24

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

khwarezm posted:

Places like Cspam

# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 19:16

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Those are really bad vaccination rates for elderly and infirm, if true. Just had overall, considering the rates of hospitalization seen elsewhere. How porous is the lockdown in HK vs the rest of PRC?

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 06:44

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Ballsy of the PRC to have a Uighur light the Olympic torch.

Other countries use a torch.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2022 23:09

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Atopian posted:

drat lol. Must have wandered into it by a link or something, or just forgotten.
Well, I'll correct that.

Docking your social credit score for D&D posting, Tóngzhì

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 07:25

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Centrist Committee posted:

What does EE mean?

Eastern Europe, presumably

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 09:07

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

If you owe 2500 in child support you become ineligible for a passport in the US.

Only applies to passport applications/ changes/ renewals, not currently held passports. Also, you don't need a passport to fly within the USA anyhow.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/css/outreach-material/passport-denial-program-101

You're wrong.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 7, 2022

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 19:10

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

It's not an analogy, The question was "Can you provide a list of countries on earth where you might get barred from air travel because you were late on debt payments"

It's not a bar on air travel, you got the facts wrong.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 19:41

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

VitalSigns posted:

This stuff kinda comes down to people's individual conceptions of 'freedom',

So just to be clear, you're okay with the state denying a kid higher education because one of their parents had an unpaid parking ticket?

That's not a problem for you?

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 21:28

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

VitalSigns posted:

No I pretty clearly think it's bad to punish kids because their parents are poor or irresponsible or whatever

Oh okay. Just seems to me that US tuition rates are kind of irrelevant to a discussion of China's social credit program, especially since there's a lot of non-US posters here. I mean it's not like university is free in China either - a casual Google says public tuition rates are more than I paid for my Engineering Physics degree (with a B in Marxist Philosophy!)

https://www.mastersportal.com/articles/1587/study-abroad-in-china-all-you-need-to-know-about-tuition-and-living-costs.html

So if your point was that high tuition fees prevent poor kids from attending university, apparently that's also an issue in China.

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 7, 2022

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 22:11

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

VitalSigns posted:

Well the question was asked what other countries restrict educational opportunities as a means of social control so my comment was relevant to that. I was just theorizing about why one method might be considered compatible with freedom and the other not. China restricting university education to children based on how poor their parents are seems like something that a lot of people who value 'freedom' may not object to if that's compatible with their definition of freedom

Who exactly in this thread has advocated high tuition as 'freedom' or other good thing, I somehow missed it. Are you maybe mixing up this thread with another one? This thread is about China, you see. Where apparently university education can be quite expensive, a fact of which apparently you, like me, had been shockingly unaware when you raised the issue of tuition.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 22:35

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Actually private education has been banned in the PRC, one of the better changes.

Apparently *public* universities can charge high tuition in China, never mind the private ones.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 22:50

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Neurolimal posted:

We're 7 days into a war with a country nine times larger, and they're about to encircle three major cities (including the capital), air superiority has been established, and Ukraine's eastern force are kettled.

This post isn't aging well today

# ¿ Mar 5, 2022 20:40

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

C'mon Shanghai keep it together please.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2022 08:29

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Mantis42 posted:

Like most countries, China's official death count is probably lower than the real count. That being said, you could add two zeros on the end of it and they'd still have a much more successful track record on a per capita basis compared to most western countries.

Yeah, I want them to succeed so that people don't die. Scoring political points on a tragedy like this is wrong.

I just fear they've hit a tipping point.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 08:30

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Come on China, get it together, please?

# ¿ Apr 15, 2022 07:43

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Alchenar posted:

Why are you making stuff up?

China good, USA bad.

What, you were looking for depth?

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 21:00

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Varinn posted:

Saying "we will increase our military presence in your region if you do x" is a threat, no matter how much you pretend it isnt.

I went back and read the article. Nothing you just claimed is in it, from the USA side at least.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 21:12

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Warbadger posted:

So, what you're saying is China/The Solomons would be threatening Australia, New Zealand, etc. by building this theoretical base there? And you're complaining that someone else might do essentially the same thing?

Alchenar already shot down the claim when they first posted it quite well:

Alchenar posted:

Yeah it's a grossly poor-faith reading of “Look, I’m not going to speculate and I’m not in a position to talk about what the United States may or may not do in such a situation.”.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 21:17

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Varinn posted:

The US threatening a response to something they're choosing to do in their own country is ridiculous.

If you're just going to keep making stuff up there's nothing to discuss, frankly. Your fevered imagination to the contrary.

Or do you have an actual source where the US government issued threats?

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 22:20

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Varinn posted:

If you're going to continue to pretend that you cant even begin to understand why

is read as a threat, thats fine, but saying I'm "making things up" is ridiculous.

So your answer is "no, I have no actual evidence of any threats". Wraps it up, doesn't it?

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 22:57

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Varinn posted:

Okay, in an attempt to draw any amount of debate and/or discussion from your smooth stone edifice, let's try a question:

When he says "responding to those concerns", what does that look like? What are the responses he's talking about?

Why would I want to make stuff up?

Come back when you have something factual.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2022 23:08

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

CommieGIR posted:

shut the gently caress up about Russia in the China thread.

# ¿ May 5, 2022 16:22

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

FishBulbia posted:

Do you consider the first french republic to be fascist? Why or why not? Then we can apply your definition to the PRC.

Discussion of fascism has its *own* thread!

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3967152&pagenumber=3&perpage=40

# ¿ May 5, 2022 17:19

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

A well-vaccinated country, DK, deaths by age group:

6234 total deaths. Some 90% in the over 60 cohorts.

Denmark prioritized the elderly, infirm and immunocompromised.

If you're only at 62% vaccinated in elderly, you're sitting on a massive bomb.

Shanghai is 5x the population of Denmark, so even fully vaccinated you would expect many thousands of elderly dead in an unchecked outbreak. Considering the success of the vaccine in reducing mortality, I would expect a much higher fatality rate in Shanghai than in DK.

This is why they can't afford to fail. But goddamn get vaccinating.

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 10:59 on May 8, 2022

# ¿ May 8, 2022 10:53

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

fart simpson posted:

they are probably much too low, yes, but you also have to consider that we would expect the death rate in shanghai to be lower than pretty much anywhere else even if everything else is constant. has anywhere outside of china done mass testing on this scale before? i dont know if we can figure out the actual rates but the covid case numbers in shanghai probably contain a lot more mild and asymptomatic people that wouldn't have even been tested or shown up in the numbers in any other place. how much is that a factor? i don't know.

by "vaccines do not stop covid to a real degree" i meant to say that even if you vaccinate everyone, covid will still spread around without further non-vaccine intervention. the vaccines slow, but don't even come close to stopping its spread. d even with high vaccination rates, a lot of people will still die:

and china as a whole is 250x the population of denmark. even with comparable vaccination rates to denmark you'd expect millions of deaths

Not seeing your point. DK did massively test through Omicron, incidentally.

If we take your expectations of millions of deaths, vaccinating would still save millions of lives. At 250x DK death of ~6000, you're looking at 15 million. Now double that if you don't vaccinate.

# ¿ May 8, 2022 11:17

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

One problem with Huawei's stealing other vendors' router code is that because they didn't develop the core code, they have sucked at maintaining and patching chunks of it.

https://www.theregister.com/2019/03/28/huawei_mirai_router_vulnerability/

There's stories about Huawei basically trying to lock you in to their gear by breaking interoperability with other vendors. I can look for links to that too.

https://www.fierceelectronics.com/electronics/cyber-experts-call-for-huawei-gear-to-interoperate-other-vendor-hardware

"Huawei... has previously defended its right to sell its gear as an exclusive product to carriers that doesn’t interoperate with that of other vendors in order to capitalize on its investment in IP and products."

Basically Huawei is cheap and less secure. It's probably also backdoored just like the USA probably backdoors Cisco gear.

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 1, 2022

# ¿ Jun 1, 2022 22:44

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Red and Black posted:

So is anyone going to present evidence that Huawei puts "back doors" in its products or are we just moving on?

I think the background assumption in infosec is that the US, China and Israel all have backdoor access for at least law enforcement, and nobody has published evidence beyond Snowden.

Anyone assuming they *don't* is simply naive.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2022 12:37

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

420 Gank Mid posted:

So the source for the US putting in backdoors and muscling telecoms and ISPs comes from a whistleblower who was directly in the right place in the NSA to know all about it coming forward with his story and the source for the PRC doing the same is your gut

If you ignore all the reports back to 2012 on Huawei, sure.

Are you saying the PRC is either too noble or incompetent to do it, considering the degree of control they have over Huawei compared to US control over Cisco?

:rubby:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jun 2, 2022 21:43

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Red and Black posted:

They’re not equivalent. Chinese propaganda is hamfisted and easy discern as propaganda. Western propaganda is sophisticated and effective, providing the illusion of debate and objectivity while actually providing a very limited, highly slanted spectrum of views.

Yes, we've all read Manufacturing Consent. Woodward and Bernstein and their like still exist and aren't sent to reeducation camps in Idaho.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 14:53

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Uh, no? Go look at recent Pullitzers for current examples of investigative journalism, or the Panama Papers, or the investigation into January 6th, Trump attempts to overturn the election, etc.

Anyone get tossed in jail for *reporting* on Snowden? Or Chelsea Manning?

There's tons to complain about political and corporate control over US/Western media generally, but it's nothing compared to Chinese media.

The Grauniad, for example, would be shut down. Can you get a copy of the New York Times in Beijing?

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 15:18

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

mawarannahr posted:

The Guardian is an awful example to bring up.

It is so bad an example that if you edit your post to remove references to it I will happily edit my post to help you save face. What do you think would have happened to the journalists if they told the police to gently caress off?

If I may be allowed to quote your own source:

"It was purely a symbolic act," Johnson said. "We knew that. GCHQ knew that. And the government knew that," He added: "It was the most surreal event I have witnessed in British journalism."

Thanks for proving my point - nobody went to jail for publishing Snowden in the Guardian. The whole 'destroy the disks or else' was a pointless symbolic act.

I think you should keep your post just as it is, please.

:rubby:

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 15:50

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

mawarannahr posted:

I want to ask again, what would have happened if they told the police to go away?

I don't know, and neither do you.

quote:

Seems a waste of time and money for all of them, which is a material issue, no?

Well between the Guardian and other non-UK papers they got the story out, which I think is a huge thing even if the Guardian had to drop out after the initial releases. Good for everyone.

The Guardian sold a lot of papers, which is good for them.

Rusbridger seems to have come out of it pretty okay, according to Wikipedia.

quote:

From 2015 to 2021, Rusbridger was principal of Lady Margaret Hall in the University of Oxford. He was appointed chair of the university's Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism in 2016. In 2020, Rusbridger was announced as one of the first members of the Oversight Board created by Facebook. His appointment as incoming editor of Prospect magazine was announced in July 2021.

Lastly, Glenn Greenwald certainly picked up some dedicated fans on SA to this day, gotta score that a win for GG. Really did great off Snowden.

Here's a hypothetical for you, since this is the China thread - you think Rusbridger and Greenwald would ended up as well off if they'd been Chinese journalists?

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 18:47

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

some plague rats posted:

Yeah, the poor, propaganda addled Chinese probably never even learned about Saddam's WMDs

You really want to claim Chinese media is more reliable than the NYT overall? That's the hill you want to die on? Or what was the point of your comment, if not?

After all, there's been quite a bit of reporting on the subject of Iraqi WMDs, from exposures of Curveball onward, Cheney strong-arming the CIA, the garbage mobile lab photos Powell waved around, etc. All from the horrible corrupt Western media. Yeah, the media in the west can get it wrong, but you skip over the rest of the story, that journalists kept digging. Show me the same process where Chinese media are holding their own government to account, please? Where are the headlines exposing the ongoing Uighur genocide? Criticizing China policy on Ukraine?

Ed:
The post mortem on the WMD stories basically cost Judith Miller her career.

quote:

The New York Times determined that several stories she wrote about Iraq were inaccurate, and she was forced to resign from the paper in 2005. According to commentator Ken Silverstein, Miller's Iraq reporting "effectively ended her career as a respectable journalist".

Cold comfort to be sure, but do Chinese reporters ever suffer from toeing the government line comparably?

Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 4, 2022

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 22:07

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

some plague rats posted:

Acting like the Chinese media is somehow worse or more propagandistic than western is just asinine, frankly.

Actually, acting like there is a 'western media' that compares to Chinese media is just a strawman in the first place. It may be inconvenient to China apologists that their preferred government actively jails people who disagree with the public party line, but reporting and public debate on matters of public policy even in the USA just isn't conducted on that basis. Fox News screams all day how Biden is senile and nobody at Fox is dragged off to a camp. Trying to paint the two media systems as even remotely comparable is a fascinating study in apologetics.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 22:46

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 08:01

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Kchama posted:

Writing op-eds for the WSJ, Newsmax, and Fox News

Recall that Murdoch owns both WSJ and Fox. As far as a quick search for WSJ op-eds by Miller, can't see anything past 2006 or thereabouts.

Newsmax is amusingly described as the home for the disgraced:

quote:

The Washington Post described Newsmax as "a landing spot for cable news personalities in need of a new home," citing the network's airing of Mark Halperin and Bill O'Reilly following their resignations from other networks due to sexual harassment allegations.

Miller would be perfect for Newsmax on that score.

Basically her career in journalism indeed died when she got fired by the NYT.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2022 23:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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