p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

golang is terrible

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 03:43

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:52

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

anyone who thinks running javascript on a server is a good idea should get a new job as a walmart cashier

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 03:44

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Anal Tributary posted:

there's no disadvantages to running javascript on a server besides a smaller ecosystem to build on

and don't say callback hell (just to pick out one of the many nonsensical criticisms against it); there's tons of libraries out there for taming it

how about the fact that all of the major javascript runtimes are single-threaded, slow as gently caress, and require at least an order of magnitude more cpu/ram/diskio than just writing your server in C like god intended?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 03:54

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Anal Tributary posted:

how about that none of this is relevant for the ways nodejs is currently being used by sites in production?

also okcupid is a c++ shop and even they decided to switch to node for some of their stuff (and created tamejs to support it, which is nice), so apparently some people prefer the easiness over the speed vOv

"some" meaning anything that doesn't need to be reliable, fast, or efficient

if your goal is to poo poo out a bunch of unreadable spaghetti code, waste cpu time, create some github repos and call it a day, then node.js and javascript are the technologies for you!

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 04:03

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Anal Tributary posted:

cool i really like how not only did i mention that libraries exist to mitigate callback hell/spaghetti code, i also namedropped a specific one, and yet you still used this as a point

I didn't say anything about callbacks. Wipe the stale 4loko out of your eyes and read again.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 04:11

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

javascript: the language for people who think php imposes too much structure

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 04:12

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Anal Tributary posted:

how is "spaghetti code" in js a bigger issue than it is in any other language

javascript was a language originally written for people too stupid to handle java, and it was never designed or suited for any problem larger than making glittery mouse trails on geocities guestbooks

the "rise" of poo poo like node.js is actually just a bunch of incompetent wanna-bes who flunked out of cs103 because pointers were "like, too hard, man", standing in a circle jerking off onto a portrait of DHH

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 04:21

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Anal Tributary posted:

what defines something decent in a github, anyways? i've been asked for portfolios and never know what to say because none of the dev stuff i've done ever ends up launching, but i have some github repos with decent code in them.

Since you're a sophomore, nobody expects you to have done anything useful anyway. Come up with a few small projects suiting whatever area of software development you want to go into.

Examples that would probably go over well:

A two-player browser game. It doesn't have to be complex; checkers works fine, or blackjack, or old maid. Just something to show that you understand how the javascript<->frontend communication works.
A graphical desktop application of some sort. Windows, OSX, Linux, doesn't matter. Hit up the tiny custom app thread, find something that sounds hard but possible, and implement it.
A mobile application. Android or iOS is fine. Same idea as the desktop app, but with a more constrained platform.

You can stack these up as much as you want. Add some variety and elaboration. Again, nobody's expecting much out of an intern. The goal is to demonstrate basic competency at and familiarity with programming.

Also, study up on algorithms. I know this is like the most generic common advise ever, but that's because it's true. Some ridiculous percentage of pre-screened applicants are unable to create even a basic insertion sort, or use a prefix tree to implement a spell checker. You go in there and be the only guy in the room who can explain the tradeoffs between a map and a hash table, and you'll be a shoe-in.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 05:07

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Sulk posted:

is there a book on algorithms/data structures which is actually comprehensible without needing to know a shitload of math

this isn't quite what you asked about, but have you tried a song of ice and fire by george rr martin?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 05:15

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Dr. Honked posted:

What McCain said if you don't want to get into games or you want to get into algorithms without math

Correction markov Cain chomp
gently caress this I'm out

Autocorrect put gently caress in all caps instead of duck, maybe we are getting somewhere

blackberry playbook is the funniest thing rim have or will ever produce

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 05:44

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Jonny 290 posted:

as soon as i get newjob im gonna write a script to telnet into every walmart store in the country and run this particular script that updates our switch/port listings

how high you guys reckon i can take fork()

don't do this, you will get sued + job offer rescinded + never get hired again

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 07:06

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Shaggar posted:

i dont like that maps are called dictionaries in c#

dictionaries and maps are different thing. the c# Dictionary type is a dictionary, not a map.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 19:07

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Shaggar posted:

oh yeah? whats the difference?

a map is implemented using trees (typically binary)

a dictionary is implemented using hash tables

both a map and a dictionary are associative containers.

there is no such thing as an "associative array".

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 20:47

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Inverse Icarus posted:

my wife's company uses gmail for all their work mail (and for their clients too i guess) and she is really, really pissed off about the gmail change that they "just recently" forced everyone into

every few hours she just screams something like "WHY DO I HAVE TO HOVER TO GET TO MY LABELS?!!!?!?!" really loudly and scares the dogs

this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 21:09

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ps: tell your wife to click+drag the little almost-invisible horizontal line below the labels

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 21:10

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Inverse Icarus posted:

wife literally said "gently caress those google assholes, make them fix it"

she would be way back in line, with all of google engineering up in front.

half of us basically converted to thunderbird/mail.app overnight

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:29

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Otto Skorzeny posted:

since when are you a googler

since over a year ago

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:33

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

lmbo @ my new title

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:33

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

public service announcement: how to make the new gmail less horrible

1. click the flower icon in the top right, click "compact"

2. click it again, click "themes", click "high contrast"

3. on this same page, find the "general" tab, click it, find "button labels", set to "text"

it still doesn't have any color, because the google designers are loving *allergic* to color unless it's bright obnoxious RED, but with these settings it's at least vaguely usable for reading email

also, you can click the iChat icon in the bottom left to turn off the "gmail chat" that nobody in the entire world uses or cares about

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:40

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Inverse Icarus posted:

*sips pbr, adds more whitespace*

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:42

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

tef posted:

turn off javascript, click 'use html mode as default'

but then the tab icon won't update when I get a new message :effort:

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 00:50

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Sniep posted:

hey janin will you tell the guy who does gmail to go back to the old style theme thanks

yeah, they ignored months of complaints from ten thousand engineers, I'm sure one more will change their mind

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 02:43

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

tef posted:

but threads are hard

no they're not. use a better language (like haskell)

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 17:33

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

BonzoESC posted:

seriously if you're not writing a tutorial about monads using strained analogies to real-world things there's no reason to use Haskell

haskell is awesome if you want to write high-performance (lol, erlang) servers that don't crash, or if you want to have a nicer interface to some gnarly old C/C++/Python/Lua/etc library, or you are working on an extremely constrained environment and want to write a program with guaranteed-fixed memory allocation and cpu time, or or or or ...

basically, it's the best language ever for anything that isn't windows GUI programming

Otto Skorzeny posted:

well haskell is pretty neat for a lot of things, and the problems with getting it to work with real systems aren't as pronounced as some folks make them out to be. at the same time, haskell isn't a panacea for parallelism generally or multithreaded parallelism* in particular, even thought it has some tools that help with certain types of problems (eg. `par` is cool but once you get beyond certain embarassing cases you need other tools because the substantial complexity of your task is the real problem rather than accidental complexity)

the nice thing with haskell w.r.t. threads is that you can use its type system to enforce lots of different constraints on stuff like shared memory access or locking that would otherwise require hundreds of pages of documentation and "IMPORTANT: DONT CALL THESE PROCEDURES IN THE SAME THREAD AS ..." warnings.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 20:48

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

haskell owns owns owns

the only two languages that need to exist are haskell and c

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 20:51

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

man just look how wrong you are

# ¿ Apr 29, 2012 20:53

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

MononcQc posted:

seryospost, for a lot of task Haskell appears to become thunk heaven, and it gets very hard to get good performance and/or good profiling out of it because it's pretyt hard to get profiling working at all without messing up with the lazy semantics of the language.

When you get some performance problems (usually related to memory), the act of trying to profile the code or ad debugging info is often enough to solve the problem, but then you don't want to ship code that's running in debug mode and welp Haskell gets really lovely hard to make work well for certain classes of serious things.

this is easily solved by spending more than like twenty minutes learning the language

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 06:05

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Gazpacho posted:

worse is better, you will never sell a language that depends on a graduate CS education to get started vs. one in which you can write "og say print stuff to screen"

code:

main = do
    putStrLn "uggh how og print"
    putStrLn "og confused without semicolons, og smash"

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 06:28

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Gazpacho posted:

sweet now try doing it inside an arbitrary function OH SNAP

why would you want to do this? IO should only be done if the function's type signature allows IO.

tef posted:

I have been informed that haskell is easier if you understand category theory first.

no it's not. don't be silly.

you don't need to understand operational semantics to use java, right? why would you need to understand category theory to use haskell?

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 17:54

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Sweevo posted:

i always feel sorry for functional programmers

i mean it must get depressing knowing that nothing you've ever written will ever be used by a single person ever

it's cute how all the li'l college students believe this :allears:

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 18:00

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

"well my teacher left the industry in '98 and he says everyone uses java, nobody cares about that functional stuff, so who am I am to argue!?"

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 18:01

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Gazpacho posted:

lol, "should" in one hand and write imperative code in the other and tell me which fills up the fastest

there's a whole generation of idiots being trained to believe that writing imperative code and writing IO spaghetti are the same thing.

it's you, you're the idiots.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 21:28

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:

im 28 years old with a wife two kids and a mortgage, i have an english degree that put me $10,000 in debt and never got me a job, and a CS degree that cost me another $5000 to teach me virtually nothing i didn't already know and i have no paid work experience in the field

"place i want to work for" is literally defined as any place willing to pay me $45,000 or more regardless of how crappy the work is

sorry i didn't meanto interrupt im just having a miniature freakout

man, don't worry, if 45k is your goal then you can get there by fogging a mirror.

go in that interview and show off your mad C skills

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 22:28

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

cjs: never assign a software development task to a bunch of hardware engineers

"oh, you want a highly-available service to query network capacities? ok, we have written you a c++ api that reads this custom-format binary blob from network filesystem, enjoy!!"

# ¿ May 1, 2012 01:06

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

oops, wrong thread, gently caress it. yospos bitch.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 01:08

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ahhh spiders posted:

wow! a real live silver bullet!

any time you can offload some sort of annoying mechanical process to the compiler, it's a huge win.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 19:07

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

tiny bug child vs ahhh spiders cripplefight :allears:

# ¿ May 1, 2012 19:44

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Nested templates vs the bitshift operator are symptomatic of C++'s poor design, but they're not a fundamental issue with the language so much as just a minor mistake in the grammar. Every major compiler will provide a decent error message in C++98 mode, and should accept it in C++11 mode.

ahhh spiders posted:

what's the ambiguity in C++?

"Ambiguity" is the wrong word, his professor was probably generalizing a bit.

The problem with C++ is that is grammar is undecidable and its template system is Turing-complete. Together, this means that it is literally impossible to create a C++ parser. The only way to process C++ is to compile it.

Perl 5 (and probably 6) has a similar issue.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 21:32

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ahhh spiders posted:

lua is a simple, beautiful little flower

lua is the only embedded interpreter I've seen that actually uses a proper state value instead of just going "hurp durp everything's global!", which makes it about a hundred times easier to work with than python or guile.

too bad about the language itself.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 21:55

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:52

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ahhh spiders posted:

what's wrong with it?

dynamic typing, weak typing, no integers, hash tables as the primary abstraction

it's great if your alternative is Tcl or something, but programming has seen a few advances in the last 20 years and Lua hasn't adopted any of them.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 22:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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