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newreply.php posted:i dont get python and ruby folks i don't get java and c++ folks i mean if its web stuff just use python or ruby? if its local stuff that has to go fast use go, or maybe rust? it boggles teh mind
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Apr 26, 2012 00:09
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ok obviously that third line is ironic but the second one is real; i don't know why you'd use java for web stuff, from my limited exposure to it
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Apr 26, 2012 00:10
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tbh i'd rather talk about specific frameworks and poo poo over languages i'd much rather see a debate between emberjs/backbonejs or rails/django or something, see pros and cons of those language pros and cons tend to be irrelevant to me because i'm using a language either (a) because it's the only thing i can use (javascript) or (b) because i like the frameworks/libraries it has
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Apr 26, 2012 03:36
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Janin posted:anyone who thinks running javascript on a server is a good idea should get a new job as a walmart cashier there's no disadvantages to running javascript on a server besides a smaller ecosystem to build on and don't say callback hell (just to pick out one of the many nonsensical criticisms against it); there's tons of libraries out there for taming it it's not a one-size-fit-all solution, and because of the small ecosystem and immature libraries it probably won't (and shouldn't) form the backbone of your site, but there's tons of web apps from github to okcupid using it in production alongside other frameworks for specific tasks it excels at. as it matures, you'll probably start to see more full stacks based on node.
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Apr 26, 2012 03:49
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Ronald Raiden posted:anal volcano you should learn some languages that aren't javascript hey ive made views for django and flask before thanks to my terrible collabs with elgruntox so i can at least confidently pretend to know what i'm talking about (i like javascript  )
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Apr 26, 2012 03:53
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Janin posted:how about the fact that all of the major javascript runtimes are single-threaded, slow as gently caress, and require at least an order of magnitude more cpu/ram/diskio than just writing your server in C like god intended? how about that none of this is relevant for the ways nodejs is currently being used by sites in production? also okcupid is a c++ shop and even they decided to switch to node for some of their stuff (and created tamejs to support it, which is nice), so apparently some people prefer the easiness over the speed vOv
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Apr 26, 2012 04:00
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Inverse Icarus posted:i know there's a bit of sarcasm here but seriously, learn some other languages idk i'm trying to pick and choose my time i've had school taking up time. i have to get some sort of job this summer; it's gonna be some retail thing, i've got actual projects i want to do (things in javascript, because that's what i know). so that leaves like not a lot of pure learning time i'd like to learn c, or maybe lisp, but i don't have anything i'm working on that would really benefit from another language, or any projects i want to start that could use another language. and plus there's so much more poo poo i have to learn besides just languages. i want to learn redis (not that there's much to learn), mongodb, oh, also how to better-use actual SQL dbs, some basic devops stuff (migrations, deploys, etc). i'd like to learn how to do concurrent programming, wanna play around with functional languages, etc., etc. oh and i also really need to learn mobile web development. maybe even like iphone app development. so i have to pick and choose. right now i'm doing emberjs stuff because it's an undeveloped ecosystem where i have a chance to really contribute, i'm pretty good at javascript, and a project i'm working on needed a js mvc framework and i found emberjs easier to get started with than backbonejs. Janin posted:if your goal is to poo poo out a bunch of unreadable spaghetti code, cool i really like how not only did i mention that libraries exist to mitigate callback hell/spaghetti code, i also namedropped a specific one, and yet you still used this as a point 
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Apr 26, 2012 04:08
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how is "spaghetti code" in js a bigger issue than it is in any other language
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Apr 26, 2012 04:15
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Ronald Raiden posted:learn c. Seriously. Then make something with it. You probably won't use it ever again, but it will be good for you. Builds character. i'll probably learn obj-c for an iphone app at some point z0ratio fartboner posted:i didn't eat dinner and drank along with 2 4lokos just to see what the hype was and got crunk as all hell and emailed an ex-girlfriend and then woke up with embarrassing emails i thought 4lokos were either decaffinated or dealcoholinated in most/all states now? or in some way neutered
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Apr 26, 2012 04:17
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Janin posted:javascript was a language originally written for people too stupid to handle java, and it was never designed or suited for any problem larger than making glittery mouse trails on geocities guestbooks idgi it's used for a lot of neat poo poo i don't get why you're so angry about javascript. it's not like it's php; it's a language with some quirks but is at least relatively consistent* *(except typeof null === "object")
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Apr 26, 2012 04:32
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Markov Chain Chomp posted:cool none of that matters because you live in bfe without any ambitions for leaving are you loving kidding "without any ambitions for leaving" did you miss my solid week of attempting to plan a pilgrimage to the bay area
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Apr 26, 2012 04:33
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Markov Chain Chomp posted:probably. i dont always read yospos yeah turns out you can't move to the bay area with $50 cash + $200 in your bank account who knew
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Apr 26, 2012 04:36
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Markov Chain Chomp posted:turns out you can if you get a big boy internship freshman going into sophomore year, no formal CS background, going to a poo poo college, no prior references for code besides my github page; it is not good material for that theoretical internship application maybe next year 
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Apr 26, 2012 04:39
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Inverse Icarus posted:fun fact: some internships have relocation money, and rotor is in the bay area i know they have that relocation money, only way i could ever make it out there i've said it before but i honestly had no idea rotor was being serious about that resume thing; for w/e reason i assumed it was trolling and never thought to follow up
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Apr 26, 2012 04:44
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Markov Chain Chomp posted:you picked it quote:nobody loving uses references and if you actually bothered to put something decent in your github that would do wonders for you hey remember when this thread was about programming languages
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Apr 26, 2012 04:45
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Ronald Raiden posted:my excuse is better than anal volcano's yeah that owns
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Apr 26, 2012 04:50
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Dr. Honked posted:Code doesn't need to launch, it just needs to be good. If you are embarrassed by your code then it's not good enough. Your portfolio needs to contain code that you are proud of. That you can talk enthusiastically about. Thanks playbook for fucing with my sentence structure cheers i need more code, i guess. actually went thru my github and deleted some repos with lovely old code in them, tried to pare down to good stuff or stuff that at least shows a range vOv
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Apr 26, 2012 05:07
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Janin posted:Also, study up on algorithms. I know this is like the most generic common advise ever, but that's because it's true. Some ridiculous percentage of pre-screened applicants are unable to create even a basic insertion sort, or use a prefix tree to implement a spell checker. You go in there and be the only guy in the room who can explain the tradeoffs between a map and a hash table, and you'll be a shoe-in. yeah i don't know any of these things this is why i wasn't applying to internships this summer. guess my focus should be self-teaching that kinda stuff.
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Apr 26, 2012 05:10
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baxate posted:That's another thing you can do. Just find an open source project you like and browse through their bug tracker and find something that looks easy to fix, and fix it. yeah, i'm going to probably be contributing some to emberjs fairly soon. i'm basically just trying to keep productive - keeping a public (shame)log of all of my coding for motivation to not, like, skip any more than weekend
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Apr 26, 2012 05:19
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code:seriously i can't imagine any case where this would take > 2-3 minutes at most, drat
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Apr 26, 2012 19:33
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Dr. Honked posted:well done captain obvious i was bored + just woke up
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Apr 26, 2012 19:36
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Werthog posted:welp have fun working at best buy again oh goddammit lol brb killing myself
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Apr 26, 2012 19:40
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trex eaterofcadrs posted:dude... _.each(string.split(""), function(char) { counts[char] = counts[char]+1 || 1 }); is a cool one-liner but it's not like there's anything with just using a for loop
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Apr 26, 2012 19:50
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horns.aiff
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Apr 26, 2012 20:14
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Inverse Icarus posted:which particular things are you complaining about? like what browser plugin do you think should be a standalone app but isn't? i dont think its about plugins; it's about browsers slowly, slowly, sloooowly gaining desktop app capabilities (why the gently caress are localStorage/indexedDB/file API/all storage solutions still loving TERRIBLE)
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Apr 28, 2012 05:22
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Nomnom Cookie posted:I guess if you have to do front end stuff the web sucks but that's why you don't do that. Just work on the cool and fun backend things and if someone tries to get you to debug some JS you go separation of concerns, BITCH and then do a 360 and walk off front-end dev stuff is fun as hell the most rewarding part of development is making poo poo look good and easy to use. obviously i got mad respect for backend dudes who make the poo poo fundamentally work, but i love doing the top layer because i love working on what users see and what defines their user experience 
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Apr 28, 2012 05:32
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i've actually been doing a bunch of work on a build tool for Ember.js apps and i actually found the most enjoyable part being writing docs, because that's when it goes from "a silly little thing i write code for" to "a tool that other people can use" front-end dev works the same way
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Apr 28, 2012 05:39
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My Linux Rig posted:cause its javascript and everything has to be asynchronous bullshit actually localStorage is very much synchronous but i did some web sql stuff late 2010 when web sql was still a thing and urgh dark days, back then. dark days. it was the first javascript project i'd ever done and i'd never dealt with asynchronous/callback-based code, and it was before i'd discovered jquery, and basically i needed to scrape a shitload of web pages and save them into websql. so there were two layers of callbacks, and me trying to figure out how the gently caress to manage them ("wait you mean i can't just use a for loop? oh NOOOOOOo") quote:Though to be honest, why even use those at all? All the best web apps have treated web apps as they should be treated: as thin clients that don't do anything more than manage the UI and call the server for everything else nah, local storage solutions matter because they're going to bring web apps offline. which i guess pisses some people off, but whatever.
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Apr 28, 2012 17:56
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rotor posted:reminder that in the year 2012 people are literally excited about the following upcoming features of their development platform: but now i can use the Greatest Language of All Time, JavaScript, to write my quake source port!! 
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Apr 28, 2012 18:03
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My Linux Rig posted:It should. You don't realize how unprepared javascript is for offline apps until you've tried to write one. Writing app code in javascript is loving horrendous, but creating an offline app is even worse i'm writing a note-taking app in emberjs that is 100% offline at the moment; working pretty well eventually gonna have sync to a server but that's as simple as swapping the localStorage adapter i'm using out with a REST adapter (or maybe using them in parallel) it hasn't been that bad, really vOv though every time i serialize JSON to a string for localStorage i die a little inside (my fault for being lazy and not wanting to do an indexedDB adapter)
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Apr 28, 2012 21:10
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Janin posted:this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers" holy poo poo
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Apr 28, 2012 21:11
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echinopsis posted:its weird when you take a poo poo what what
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Apr 29, 2012 22:53
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CaptainMeatpants posted:going to school for computers was literally, sincerely, unambiguously the worst decision of my life rotor posted:people got too many fuckin degrees imho MononcQc posted:Don't get me wrong, I love learning poo poo and it rules. It's just that it seems a crapload of people come out with a CS degree and end up being code janitors and never need more math or algorithms than using cross-multiplication and stdlib algorithms, then go 'welp' at their education because 90% of the work is making sure business rules are implemented right, then 5% is politics and 4% is arguing about indentation. The remaining 1% is filling your time sheet. man, why do i even do anything
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May 1, 2012 05:06
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ahhh spiders posted:lua ftw ive been doing interviewstreet challenges to learn how to do Real Programming Problems for some reason, they have support for loving lua, but not javascript. i'm using python instead but still, what the gently caress? ugh. e: also if anyone can give me hints on the "unfriendly numbers" challenge (not a solution obviously!! i aint no cheater) that'd be nice; i timed out on the last 3 test cases. it really sucks that they don't show you any details about the test cases 
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May 3, 2012 02:44
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Nomnom Cookie posted:Like if you can figure how to fill in an object and call $.ajax that's good enough for webs yeah well if it was good enough for real employment i'd probably have a job by now 
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May 3, 2012 02:59
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Casao posted:never really looked at sublime text before because the default theme looks like every osx text editor ever and they don't do things like list the features get this to go with it for style enforcement; i've been usin it for python & javascript and it owns
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May 3, 2012 05:50
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Nomnom Cookie posted:i still don't get why people are saying this guy who likes front end work should learn algos though. if you're doing anything that counts as implementing an algorithm on your loving webpage or code-behind or whatever the gently caress then you hosed up bad. idk every time i hear someone's tale from an interview it's not "so they had me mock up a quick web application on the platform of my choice using a provided API" (this would be a killer loving way to interview a front-end dev btw) it's "well they had me whiteboard code these 17 different math/algo problems"
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May 4, 2012 02:54
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when i say provided API, i'm talking about a basic CRUD interface to a database we're talking about front-end development. if i say "alright, for this interview, we've got some web application that has this API we made. build us a front-end for it. here's some basic specifications." it'd be a relatively simple test (like maybe 5-6 hours at most, or gently caress just like two and see what they can do; that may seem like a lot but there's far crazier interviews out there), probably with some basic authentication handling so they know how to do that. i mean this is something you'd want tailored to the position, so if it was say a django shop you'd give them a half-built django application and have them create views and templates and poo poo, you know, what front-end devs do. if it's something kind of open, encourage them to use something like backbone.js; front-end devs should be able to handle heavy-client side apps, since that's where we're going. you'd look for the same stuff you look for in interviews: code quality, mastery of tools used, very importantly ability to learn new concepts (i assume a lot of front-end dev is "we have this new specific need, go learn this jquery plugin and how to style the output"), design considerations (though obviously you wouldn't expect them to bust out photoshop and spend the six hours mocking up the perfect gradients), etc. front-end development is, at its core, about taking back-ends and creating complex, easy-to-use views for them, and to some extent making it look good (i think there's still a difference between "front-end developer" and "web designer"). that's the challenge you need to present interviewees, imo e: also, i want to be clear; i don't think this is the only coding you want in an interview. i get that there's value in being able to do traditional interview code challenges - especially if you want more of a "flex" coder than someone who sits around creating views all day. i would guess that most companies would want front-end devs who can hack on the backend if they need to, and yeah, you do need more than just "onclick=$.ajax(api endpoint)" in that case. but i think it's a mistake to put the majority of a coder's value in terms of their interviewstreet score. abraham linksys fucked around with this message at 09:21 on May 4, 2012 |
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May 4, 2012 09:16
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Alligator posted:that would take ages when you could do the same with a couple of well formed lil problems that take minutes. zero, of course! i know it's a long-rear end way to test someone, but hey, there's some long-rear end interviews out there (like the one i linked). and i don't think it would take ages; think it would take maybe a day. poo poo, i could imagine a company getting a bunch of prospects in at once, explaining it to them, and giving them the time to do it. there's some like "day trip" type interviews out there, especially for startups/companies hiring college grads, this would be a cool way to do one
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May 4, 2012 10:22
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ahhh spiders posted:that's a gigantic waste and gives you no sense of the candidate's ability to work with team members what do you during an interview to see a candidate's ability to work with team members? honestly curious. i remember reading about a company that would essentially have a candidate work alongside them for a day (or at least a few hours), but that's obviously not practical for 99% of companies.
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May 4, 2012 10:29
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