p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Shaggar posted:

actually what gets old is people suggesting that python isnt total trash for idiots

GIT-R-DONE!!

# ¿ May 18, 2012 17:57

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 08:12

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

i started one of those scala coursera things to learn about fp-langs and it asks a question on a quiz which requires knowing how 64 bit doubles count numbers with high exponents

yes, that was why i to watch these academic tubes and install scala, to rehash java primitive details?

# ¿ Apr 4, 2013 18:25

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

i should just read monocqcs book or SICP

# ¿ Apr 4, 2013 18:35

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Werthog 95 posted:

current scala status: pattern matching is fuckin wacky

are you doing the coursera thing too

does it bother you that the description of the problems have typos and weird grammar

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 16:39

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Werthog 95 posted:

nah I'm used to that from taking college classes from profs that don't speak english. honestly I think it's pretty dope to learn a language from the guy who loving invented it

that part is nice, definitely, but most of my struggle with the course has been related to parsing the English of the problem set

i've been out of college for too long

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 16:45

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Hard NOP Life posted:

Do you only speak English? I think being bilingual has shielded me from bad grammar and spelling, all that matters is comprehension which can be inferred most of the time.

I haven't finished the scala lectures for this week so I don't know what the problems are like.

nah i work and live with several people who don't speak english very well and do fine

my main issue is taking instruction from writing and trying to really comprehend in these lectures. overthinking, mostly, takes a lot of time

(lecture 3 got pushed back a week but lecture 4 is due this week so i'm sweatin')

# ¿ Apr 23, 2013 18:22

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

gucci void main posted:

e: nevermind i think i'm ok

yo if you are going to post online, write it in notepad first, then think about whether or not it'd be cool to save it or not

# ¿ May 9, 2013 22:03

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

MononcQc posted:

http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/50432219744/special-guest-edition-the-hawkeye-initiative-irl this owns a lot. not PL related but who cares.

haha thought it would end with some guy melting down questioning his sexuality over an anime welder and firing everyone

# ¿ May 15, 2013 15:05

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

tef posted:

i used generics once. my boss told me they would make the api too hard so we just went with a runtime checked api. thanks java!

this is a terrible question but what kind of engineering requires that level of genericity

this shows my crappiness as a developer but i've never quite understood why there's so much genericness

# ¿ May 29, 2013 16:53

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Socracheese posted:

yeah but my point is you have to know all the weird, arbitrary notation and exceptions, like a bad programming language

i had two classes about set theory with two different instructors and the second guy used totally different notation, even different words for things. of course he demanded that his standard be adhered to and would not acknowledge anything that made sense but was not his notation

granted this is anecdotal about my bad education, but would it kill them to make a set standard at least within a given topic?

i'm taking one of them online courses on machine learning and this is a huge hangup

i take a bunch of notes, and you have to write and l and L and script-style L to keep track of 3 different variables, when they could be named differently or even use an all lowercase name like layer or layer-set

gently caress variable name minification i guess

# ¿ Dec 2, 2013 20:24

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

fritz posted:

you sure l/L/fancyL are variables and not spaces or w/ever

l is a single layer, L is the whole set of layers, script L is what the author writes when he wants to indicate l but there are 1s and other ls in the same part of the formula for either variable names or iterators

# ¿ Dec 2, 2013 21:38

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

funroll loops posted:

hats are for unit vectors and estimates

best imo is subscript and doing s != r type thing

what's so hard about

x_bias * y_{regularization weight}

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 04:42

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

tef you brought up some sort of programmer blow off steam meetup that is in several cities, do you recall the name of it? supposed to be nice

# ¿ Mar 28, 2014 22:48

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Mr Dog posted:

ya i agree that programming and maths education is terrible and that a lot of excessive mystique surrounds those two skill sets

there is a continuum of skills between using a computer and programming one. striving for ease of use for casual users is fine; user interfaces shouldn't be unnecessarily obtuse, but there's no reason why we can't make casual programming more accessible either while also making no bones of the fact that it is actually programming and not advaned "business rules configuration" or some such bullshit.

otoh a lot of horror show lob applications start out as a quick time saver script written by a non-programmer that then grow like a tumor and are then tossed over the fence to an actual programming team. who either struggle to make it do much of anything, or pronounce a bold new rewrite with a Lead Technical Architect and a Steering Committee and second-system it all to hell wasting god knows how much time and money on something that is doomed to fail

programming is terrible but maybe that's just because organisational hierarchies are terrible because people, in turn, are terrible.

"casuals"

programming is programming

# ¿ Apr 2, 2014 16:12

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

OBAMA BIN LIFTIN posted:

all i think about right now is this thing

http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com

mongodb is useful if you want to make a lovely project you never show more than a couple of close friends and then delete cause your dreamhost account came due and you spent your money on titanfall instead

# ¿ Apr 11, 2014 22:24

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

VikingofRock posted:

Pretty much everything I have read about Forth leads me to believe it is dark magic so this makes sense.

what'd make you think it's dark

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 19:03

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

async/await fuckin owns, it let me replace a very complex http request handling system with something much smaller and cleaner

though i don't know what it's doing 100%, it's good magic

# ¿ Jul 28, 2017 22:52

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Wheany posted:

spring still owns btw.

It has saved me from doing super boring configuration parsing (and bean configuration based on the configuration values)

spring is very useful but it never feels like i am "learning" it

just throw in all these things and glue em together? i guess?

this is more a comment for the terrible programmers thread

# ¿ Aug 1, 2018 20:23

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

CPColin posted:

Groovy pissing me off again because ?: checks truthiness while ?. only checks nullity. So:

code:

foo = bar ?: baz // evaluates to bar if bar is truthy, baz if not
foo = bar?.baz // evaluates to bar.baz if bar is non-null, null if not

Seems fine until it turns out that empty lists are falsey. So:

code:

foo = list.first() // null pointer if list is null, no such element if list is empty
foo = list?.first() // no such element if list is empty
foo = list && list.first() // evaluates to a boolean
foo = list ? list.first() : null // sure looks like a job for ?.
fooName = (list ? list.first().name : null) ?: defaultName // gently caress off

if youre using groovy why arent you using java

serious question, most of my groovy stuff ends up turning into java classes

# ¿ Mar 14, 2019 00:51

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

CPColin posted:

I would very much like to ditch Groovy and migrate all this legacy code to something less stupid. Also Java 7. I've been looking at Kotlin+Spring Boot and plan to write a small application from the ground up as a way to evaluate it.

The problem with this code is it was all written by a one-person "team" where that one person was "not really an IDE guy" and never had to work with anybody else. Now I'm the one-person "team" and get to try to be part of the solution, instead of the problem!

if you can go to java 8 then refactoring a lot of legacy groovy stuff is easier, but yeah, the syntactic sugar of it isn't as strong of a selling point in 2019 as it might've been in 2012

sorry for your lots

# ¿ Mar 14, 2019 00:58

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

the andrew ng mooc for machine learning is in octave and i'd never wish that on anyone

# ¿ Jul 3, 2019 21:02

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Symbolic Butt posted:

python is also arguably becoming more perl-like with features like assignment expressions in 3.8

'{}'.format()? PFFT CRUFT.

Let's use f'{}', much cleaner.

it's so loving dumb

quote:

python list comprehensions

those fuckin rule, i love them, but i usually leave a comment with a link to the official python docs about what's going on

Share Bear fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 10, 2019

# ¿ Jul 10, 2019 22:40

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

this is often a sign you have hosed up badly

i write docs that assume someone hasn't seen all the parts of the language, especially when it's not explicit what is going on

code:

new_list = [
   item
   for things
   in basket
   if item == 'food'
]

is not the clearest logic if you're junior or, more commonly in my experience, never touch python

Share Bear fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jul 10, 2019

# ¿ Jul 10, 2019 23:29

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Soricidus posted:

list comprehensions aren�t bad but they should have forbidden putting multiple fors in them because neither order is obviously correct and the one they picked doesn�t match my intuition

oh absolutely. i also think they shouldve figured something better for dicts, but you can use the same bs syntax for those too.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 00:57

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Xarn posted:

Seen? I wrote them

Also this is terrible and a half step over
C++ code:
// increment iterator
++it;
because what if someone came from Python and doesn't know increment operators??

OK so what is the preferred way to transform another class or dict or other list into a new list? I thought this was pretty snappy.

I also think there are levels of syntactic sugar that are appreciable, like this as opposed to f-strings

I generally also don�t see the fault in writing comments assuming that someone might look at your code and not understand it on its face. I am usually this person, dealing with other people�s code, and would love more comments about someones wild Java streams chain or Scala nonsense or python garbage

Maybe I should stick to the terrible programmer thread

Share Bear fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jul 11, 2019

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 18:45

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

theodop posted:

if I had a code review and it had LINQ which was more complicated than butts.Where(butt -> butt.HasFart).OrderBy(butt -> butt.Size).ToArray() I would fail it and ask for every chained function to be split out to its own variable. Forcing people to name the variables means 1) they have to think about what each step is actually achieving and 2) it implicitly documents it. it's harder to do the same thing with their bizarre list comprehension syntax but fortunately nobody uses that in .NET.

even though ive been championing list comps, 100% this

�clever� or �clean� code is usually worse than either explicit poo poo or �clever� poo poo with comments

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 01:57

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Helicity posted:

adding comments to poo poo code just means its poo poo code with comments

explicit poo poo is better than poo poo with nothing going for it, because not ever org has time to refactor

comments are usually good

pragmatism not idealism, will not cry in public

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 02:23

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

everyone's pretending they're not constantly turning out poo poo that sucks, because their poo poo that sucks is better than other people's poo poo that sucks

addressing that all this poo poo sucks is worse than being quiet

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 02:26

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

i'm not sure what people are expecting from a programming language itt except that it solve problems that are fundamentally organizational or social

python is ok, like many other things you can make computer crap with

# ¿ Jul 17, 2019 23:33

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

{⍵,⍨( < what in tarnation

# ¿ Nov 23, 2019 00:22

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Internet Janitor posted:

numpy is just apl but every library function is less general and has a longer name

optimized for people who screech in fear at "mathy" notation like + or =

mathematicians are terrible at naming or expressing anything to anyone except other mathematicians

# ¿ Nov 26, 2019 02:27

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

ive been thinking about languages as trends and i wonder if anything overrides corporate investment mulitplied by environment availablity

i really like rust but i also feel like i'm maybe wasting time

i do not care about the quality of the language as long as it lets me tell computers to do something with a good degree of accuracy (hyperbole, but also serious)

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 04:48

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

flask is accessible but not a good http server on its own,. it needs a good proxy in front to spawn individual python processes

anything with wsgi support is decent but its not a good sink for spamming requests

# ¿ Mar 4, 2020 03:04

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

abigserve posted:

Most people writing golang apps don't need complex concurrency that covers complex use cases, they want simple and easy that covers simple and easy use cases, and for this it works great and it's a huge step up from python

how is it a huge step up

i have no counterargument, i can slap together poo poo that works and makes money in half a day or so in python 3, so i want to know what the gains are, whatever they may be

# ¿ Sep 4, 2020 03:51

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Soricidus posted:

yes it�s good

you don�t have to care about the directory structure it uses. it doesn�t use any site-packages directories it doesn�t control if that�s what you mean, no package conflict hell and you get exactly what you ask for

this does look good and i will try it out, thank you for the suggestion that was made to someone else during a minor disagreement

# ¿ Sep 9, 2020 21:37

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Soricidus posted:

deploying code actively makes the world a worse place tho, so python is actually good and go is even worse than I thought

where we're going we don't need deployment processes *opens vi on a prod server*

# ¿ Sep 21, 2020 19:48

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Nomnom Cookie posted:

how does the brainwank make the web server total though. do you do a php and recycle the process every 1000 requests

super wild guess: an induction proof? its been awhile since i cracked an algo book but if you can prove something for n+1 cases then you can prove it forever?

# ¿ Oct 6, 2020 16:41

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

MononcQc posted:

I guess my gripe is that if as much effort was spent into providing workflows that cope and resolve issues more effectively when they show up as goes into methods to endlessly try to prevent errors that we all know (but hardly admit) are always gonna slip through, we could be in a very different situation today regarding ergonomics and whatnot. It's probably not realistic and steeped too much in the idea that people want to be able to operate and fix their things, something that is clearly dying in many industries anyway.

programmers or "software engineers" have no concept of what goes into doing operations work

i think the idea of devops rotation being a thing is a good adjustment to that

if your poo poo doesn't provide good logs, either by enabling a flag or just making GBS threads out logs, you hosed up

a way to test that isn't just mocks and fake data is also very helpful

# ¿ Oct 8, 2020 16:49

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Malcolm XML posted:

devops = ur developers are also operators and have skin in the game

ur operators must be developers so operations has real feedback

thats it lmao

that's what i said? not sure what you read, people share the role and rotate through being the "devops" person

quote:

SREs are the domain experts (on ur system) who help SWEs achieve devops they aren't sysadmins u automate away sysadmin work i.e. computer janitoring

i dont work at google or really aspire to so i don't know what those acronyms mean so i looked them up

sre is a site reliability engineer which deals with production and sits downstream of software engineer creations
swe is a software engineer which is a software engineer

# ¿ Oct 8, 2020 18:37

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 08:12

Share Bear: Apr 27, 2004

Phobeste posted:

sre: SoftwaRe Engineer
swe: site weliability engineew 🥺 pwease dont cwash

this is my lived experience

# ¿ Oct 8, 2020 21:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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