p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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mystes: May 31, 2006

Soricidus posted:

cjk unification is fine. the only objection to it is "unicode doesn't distinguish between the 9-stroke 草 traditionally used in japan and the 10-stroke 草 traditionally used in china", which sometimes seems valid to westerners until they realise that it's equivalent to complaining that unicode doesn't distinguish between open and closed variants of the glyph 4. specify a font if the precise shape of the glyph matters, that's not what character encodings are for.

This is totally reasonable and all, except that it actually means it's impossible to display Chinese/Japanese text correctly without knowing which language it is, which defeats the entire point of unicode.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2014 16:39

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 20:44

mystes: May 31, 2006

Soricidus posted:

"correctly" is relative. the text is perfectly readable whichever glyphs you use for it, and most readers won't even notice if you use the "wrong" glyph. most readers won't even notice if you use a different character that just looks fairly similar

It's obviously wrong and nobody is going to not notice it. It would be like unifying Roman letters and Greek. You can get used to seeing the wrong characters, but that doesn't mean it's not terrible.

quote:

if someone cares enough about the appearance of their text to want it to use the "correct" glyph forms, they care enough about the appearance of their text to want to specify the font as well

The problem isn't that people can't be bothered to set a font in their word processor for their own documents. It causes huge problems for software that has to be multilingual because it has to either know about stuff like this or make everyone choose fonts.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2014 17:44

mystes: May 31, 2006

Ericadia posted:

can you take both?

Write programs in Clojure, submit to both classes.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2015 20:58

mystes: May 31, 2006

Soricidus posted:

lol programmers are terrible

That's nothing. Somone named "cake 42" not even knowing who Sartre is just slashdot-level bad. Hacker News can get way worse than that ("How I achieved a million dollars per year of passive income in 5 minutes by using machine learning to generate an app to exploit poor people in third world countries and you can too!")

mystes fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Feb 15, 2016

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 03:24

mystes: May 31, 2006

Brain Candy posted:

and why are we even arguing about degrees?

most six and a half figgie white color jobs (engineering, medicine, lawyers, actuaries, &c) make you take tests regardless of if and where you graduated from. if you really want to keep the shiteaters out and not get destroyed by cheap overseas labor id suggest turning programming into a real profession

Is six and a half figures $500,000 or $316,228?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2016 18:03

mystes: May 31, 2006

Wheany posted:

isn't pretty good < good?

I think they're actually equal in JavaScript.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2016 07:34

mystes: May 31, 2006

comedyblissoption posted:

haskell-ish:

code:

composelists x y = foldr (.) id (map (uncurry ($)) $ zip x y)
composelists [h, g, f] [c, b, a] $ x

Edit: Oh this isn't the terrible programmer thread.

mystes fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 28, 2016

# ¿ Oct 28, 2016 02:01

mystes: May 31, 2006

K is similar to J, which seems to be primarily motivated by a concern that APL was too readable.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2016 18:49

mystes: May 31, 2006

Gazpacho posted:

i never understood why APL derivatives are so big in program trading, like why would you go into such a high-risk business and then undermine your margins by using a platform that has such a tiny talent pool

Because they're special snowflakes and need special snowflake languages?

I imagine it's like how companies companies really, really want to be told they have "big data".

mystes fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Nov 23, 2016

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 02:06

mystes: May 31, 2006

SpaceClown posted:

is it bad of me to not like python because it relies so heavily community libraries that are almost universally terrible?

it always seems like theres a huge hassle trying to get things to work and i just really dont see how this is a good language for rapid prototyping. I mean the actual coding itself is fast as gently caress, but wrangling libraries ends up eating up all the time that i save. am i just supposed to become jaded to dealing with all this bullshit?

I don't think this is a python problem, really. As far as I'm aware, Python has had the philosophy of trying to move key libraries into the standard library, but it seems like people are less interested in this, and in 2017 it seems to be universally accepted that installing everything from the internet every time for every program is the right way to do things. Even languages like .net are rapidly moving in this direction, and Java will probably end up the same way eventually.

At this point I think it's going to take some sort of major security problem where tons of data is compromised by a malicious package for things to move back in the other direction.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2017 21:43

mystes: May 31, 2006

Sapozhnik posted:

What are ppls thoughts on js style async await which is promise based vs python style async await which is based on generators cuz idk the promise way seems better

Why does it make any difference? Aren't they both just continuations in the end? I've never used python async stuff, though, only c# and javascript (actually typescript because I'm not a barbarian).

# ¿ Jul 18, 2017 01:05

mystes: May 31, 2006

There Will Be Penalty posted:

mathamphetamines

This is going to be the name of my new line of dubious "nootropic" supplements.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2017 04:41

mystes: May 31, 2006

Go just seems like it only aspires to fulfill Google's specific use case, which is C + garbage collection + static linking as a replacement for C for linux command line programs and network daemons, with the one modern addition of message-passing concurrency. It has already done that, so they don't really have any need for features like generics which would be necessary to turn it into a decent general-purpose language.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2017 17:53

mystes: May 31, 2006

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

can wasm do things js can not do?

Blah blah blah turing completeness. But in reality it will make it a lot more practical to replace desktop applications for a lot of stuff.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 13:47

mystes: May 31, 2006

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

yes but what mechanisms does it have that javascript lacks? can you do x in wasm but not in javascript? what do you gain from wasm that you can�t gain by transpiling?

Right now it literally has no features whatsoever that javascript doesn't, and it can't even talk to the DOM without going through javascript. So in that sense, the answer is really that no, there's nothing it can do that javascript can't.

mystes fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Nov 16, 2017

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 14:01

mystes: May 31, 2006

Vanadium posted:

asm.html didn't really catch on

If asm.html is like asm.js but for static sites I'm not surprised.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 16:25

mystes: May 31, 2006

MrMoo posted:

WebAssembly is allegedly getting thread support, a bit useless otherwise.

Not true! It's also useful for exploiting Chromebooks!

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=766253

But seriously, I'm interested in seeing people try to make photo editing software and stuff like that in webassembly.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 17:57

mystes: May 31, 2006

Thermopyle posted:

I haven't been following webassembly too much, but I don't think anyone is really supposed to make anything in webassembly, it's just supposed to be a compilation target...right? (maybe thats what you meant and i'm just reading too much into your words)

Compilation target yes, but it seems like it's different enough that it will probably be worth targeting directly rather than just using something like emscripten, and so I suspect people will be writing for it specifically.

Once you don't need to go through JavaScript to access the dom, I suspect there will be languages that will only compile to webassembly.

Honestly, seems it seems like JavaScript had just started to get decent I feel a little bit ambivalent about this, though.

mystes fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Nov 16, 2017

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 18:34

mystes: May 31, 2006

I think real FRP packages like reflex don't need a virtual dom because they can actually keep track of changes.

With stuff like React/Elm you need the virtual dom because it's not FRP: you just have a function that converts the state to a blob of html, so the only way to update the actual DOM is by diffing the blob of html against the previous blob of html.

mystes fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Nov 23, 2017

# ¿ Nov 23, 2017 13:28

mystes: May 31, 2006

The people who were happy with python 2 are English speakers who were blithely ignoring Unicode issues and screwing things up for people using other languages. Its defaults are not acceptable in 2017.

On the other hand, dynamic typing does seem to make this more confusing than necessary for people who really do want to deal with bytes.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2017 16:36

mystes: May 31, 2006

YOSPOS: Which thread is the terrible programmer thread? You decide! They're all the terrible programmer thread

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 03:58

mystes: May 31, 2006

Suspicious Dish posted:

i have no idea what you're trying to say here

Probably "why doesn't webassembly have a bytecode" so I'm guessing his information is slightly out of date.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2017 06:08

mystes: May 31, 2006

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the original intended role for java applets was what sun demoed in their "hotjava" browser... it all worked smoothly

I'm sure the idea was "smooth" but I seem to recall the actual browser crashing constantly. Like worse than early milestone releases of Mozilla.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2017 07:08

mystes: May 31, 2006

I think I actually just tried the alpha version now that I think about it. I didn't realize they kept developing it for so long.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2017 03:34

mystes: May 31, 2006

Gul Banana posted:

web assembly isn't, but a javascript binary AST would be. that's why i'm saying WASM doesn't seem relevant

It's not relevant because it's not JavaScript? Isn't that the whole reason people are interested in it?

# ¿ Dec 26, 2017 06:35

mystes: May 31, 2006

Themage posted:

my graphics card driver runs not one, not two, but four instances of nodejs...

i assume for massively parallel workloads?

You mean your graphics card accelerates node.js for some reason or it comes with bloatware using electron or something?

# ¿ Dec 29, 2017 16:19

mystes: May 31, 2006

TimWinter posted:

All I know is that webass doesn't make writing dom manipulations in python easy, so it's essentially worthless to me.

Your options are ship the entire 3mb standard library compiled to webass, which is stupid because you barely use any of it, or to do what frontend devs have been doing for a generation which is precompile using nodejs and ship only the parts you use and then you're still using npm/grunt/yarn/regretting your life choices.

How does webass inherently preclude shipping a subset of the standard library?

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 06:30

mystes: May 31, 2006

From the Spectre paper it looks like javascript is sufficient.

Maybe it's time to disable javascript until this is fixed.

mystes fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 4, 2018

# ¿ Jan 4, 2018 00:44

mystes: May 31, 2006

The English words used for keywords aren't usually that meaningful in themselves and it would probably make it more confusing to have multiple versions making it harder to look stuff up.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2018 19:13

mystes: May 31, 2006

Just imagine if every page in Microsoft's .net documentation had to have versions for each combination like "Japanese vb.net .net core 2.0" and "Esperanto fsharp .net framework"

# ¿ Feb 2, 2018 19:17

mystes: May 31, 2006

akadajet posted:

have u tried power shell?

Powershell is pretty bad, but it's definitely not worse than bash.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2018 03:02

mystes: May 31, 2006

TimWinter posted:

Writing your own version of something existent gives it unique flavor, a new take on an old standard. Like a carefully crafted loss edit.

Can I pretend I didn't google this and still think "loss edit" is just some sort of euphemism for a turd?

# ¿ Mar 18, 2018 00:45

mystes: May 31, 2006

carry on then posted:

they're moving to a firefox style schedule

java 11 is going to be the long-term support release so i wouldn't expect to see much adoption by the big names until then

Is this sort of an acknowledgement that java as a universal vm for desktop applications is pretty much dead, so there's no need to follow a schedule that is based around the assumption that everyone is going to switch everything over to the new version all at once at the same time?

I.e. are they expecting that bundling a vm or using the AOT stuff is going to be the norm in the future?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2018 17:28

mystes: May 31, 2006

Xarn posted:

It's April...

The article in the link is dated March 26th.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2018 17:56

mystes: May 31, 2006

Ralith posted:

I wonder how it'll be until we see people pushing server-side web assembly.

Node already supports webasm, so this might happen pretty quickly if there are new languages that only compile to webasm.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2018 23:09

mystes: May 31, 2006

rjmccall posted:

the problems with statistical literacy among scientists are not that they fail to appreciate the foundational mathematical theory of the field

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

# ¿ May 3, 2018 02:07

mystes: May 31, 2006

prisoner of waffles posted:

Is this a dumbass opinion? If WASM could be used to get at rowhammer or specter like behaviors then I'd be shocked if it didn't get hit with a big, intentional performance penalty, hitting it smack dab in the kind of functions that it "should be good at".

I think the main mitigation in JS so far was just limiting timer resolution, but maybe there will be more in the future.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 18:21

mystes: May 31, 2006

akadajet posted:

shaggar alt spotted

Nah if it was shaggar he would probably say to use vbscript or jscript instead.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 19:14

mystes: May 31, 2006

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it took me a minute to realize these aren't real

https://twitter.com/ppcinstructions/status/564910275661684736
https://twitter.com/ppcinstructions/status/568096984453795840
https://twitter.com/ppcinstructions/status/557669200974839808

https://twitter.com/ppcinstructions/status/568089822147059712
Hmm, that sounds more like an ARM instruction.

# ¿ May 14, 2018 22:14

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 20:44

mystes: May 31, 2006

Clearly a "virtual machine" should be a machine for mining virtual currencies.

# ¿ May 15, 2018 21:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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