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Drunkboxer posted:DS9 made the captain a literal space-Jesus and had a Hitleresque character become the antichrist. What was the the Cardassians ideology? Genocide? What was the Dominions? Conquest? There hasn't been anything in Trek that was more us versus them than DS9. In fact I was so bored by it during the original run I stopped watching it and had to return to it like 10 years later. You've taken out a lot of the nuance from the actual show. Like Dukat does become a glowing-red-eyes Evil villain in the end, but throughout the series its clear he wants to be more than that but that's really all anyone will let him be (most of the time he's blaming them for his own failings, but still). So he eventually gives in. Sisko is never a literal space-Jesus, he's manipulated by alien beings who can control his past, present, and future. Like Dukat, he's forced into the role that others expect from him. The Cardassian society is fascist. The Dominion leaders are motivated mostly by xenophobia and overcompensating for past victimization, IIRC. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 17:41
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Drunkboxer posted:Dukat is played as a smug, manipulative war criminal the whole series. The end seemed more like was dropping the facade, not giving in. There's a difference between a war criminal and a demon, though. Early on he seems like he actually wanted or expected the Bajorans to respect him, like a stern but ultimately benevolent father figure who unfortunately had to discipline them. That's still horrible, but on some level he thinks he's doing the right thing. By the end he's purposely doing evil for its own sake. IIRC the turning point was the episode Waltz. Most of the time he had no motivation to keep up a facade. Except that he wanted to believe in his own righteousness. qntm posted:Or that it is, for that matter. Sure... but nobody is saying a theme is there solely because characters don't acknowledge it. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 17:55
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Dukat's decent into space-satanism was one of the worst parts of the show imo but they had to do something to stop the fans from sympathising with the literal nazi concentration camp commandant. Actual Nazis were still humans, so I don't see anything wrong with the show 'humanizing' a Nazi-analogue. He's explicitly shown to be wrong about the Bajorans, but he can be both wrong and understandable. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 18:15
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, but he's Doctor Moriarty. You don't even need to call Spock to know he is bad news. Like Dukat, another villain who wanted to be more than that but wasn't allowed to be. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 23:18
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Maarak posted:Before his eyes started glowing red, it seemed like Dukat and Sisko's arc would end with Dukat being assassinated by Kira after the Federation gives him a pass for helping to end the Dominion war. The question seemed to be whether Sisko would approve, or even involve himself with her extrajudicial action against a possible gov't leader in post-war Cardassia. But then he decided to join side with alien demons, and Sisko got raptured. That would actually have been a really good way to bring together multiple plot and thematic threads from the entire show.
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Jul 10, 2014 23:41
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Dude, a Nazi family man is still a Nazi. He was a charismatic, three dimensional character but at his core he was still a terrible, terrible person, I wouldn't shed too many tears. What about anything I've said made you feel the need to remind me of that?
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Jul 10, 2014 23:41
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