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Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:Eh, JJ Abrams directed the best Trek movie in recent memory so I'm taking the same path I did when Heath Ledger was cast in The Dark Knight and assume the director knows what he's doing. Yea pretty much same here, I don't really have much to say optimistically just reading the words 'Khan will be in the movie' but the first JJ Trek was a good movie and he obviously knows the material so I'll go 'yea I assume he knows what to do with him' until proven otherwise.
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May 2, 2012 22:00
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MoaM posted:Cumberbatch can act well. So I'm not worried about him doing 'Khan' well. Yea objectively the dude is a good actor. I guess my only 'eeeeh' feeling is just being a typical Trek nerd and going 'but it was already good once why ever do it again?!'. Like I said though, until I have reason to go 'welp this is gonna blow' I trust the people who already do good work.
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May 2, 2012 22:31
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Jack Gladney posted:They could make it totally different with a young Khan if they wanted. Just have them be fighting Klingons when they find him and then they team up against the loving Klingons but then Khan tries to take over the ship and they toss him and oh no he ends up leading the loving Klingons for the third act! Yea I'm not sure why so many assume this is a Wrath of Khan remake. I really hope we see young Khan, since it'd be far less of a time jump if we're sticking to following the general flow of the originals. Hell, it even sets Khan up to be a figure that could actually return, just have it end with the whole 'you've beaten me, and I respect you as a foe for it' thing instead of Nero's "FIRE EVERYTHING *falls into a giant trap and dies like a dumbass*" method and bam, instant plotline for a future movie that totally fits with what we've seen already established for Kirk/Khan.
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May 3, 2012 22:17
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Fat Turkey posted:Those upset they got a guy the director feels is best for the role sound like those people who were upset that a black man would play a Norse god in Thor. Well no, not even getting into the fact that whitewashing is a fairly important deal to discuss and all, for the god in Thor that was a case of 'uh they're loving gods, they can be purple with pink spots if they want to', but for this Khan in Trek was an Indian human man who was altered genetically, so casting a white actor for him is...fairly lovely. It's not like any of us are saying 'boycott the movie!' or anything, it's just a valid topic to bring up because it's something that hurts media as a whole to encourage.
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May 4, 2012 16:22
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I have bad news if you think 'the masses' suddenly decided Trek should have a ton of caricatures and callbacks....
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May 4, 2012 16:27
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7thBatallion posted:Oh poo poo, guys. This dude that's been wanting this part for months, the one with the awesome phone audition? It turns out he's white. Can we get someone else to do this? You know, not white? This would work if the casting people had, until recently, thought this movie was a radio play.
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May 4, 2012 21:22
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Professor Clumsy posted:I hope he employs a silly accent. If he does a totally absurd, in no way meant to be Indian, accent, and just confuses the gently caress out of everyone why the white guy talking like a nutjob is the super-human named Khan, it's the best movie made. "He may be my greatest foe...or...just a dude that escaped from a space asylum? Either way let's try to deal with that."
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May 4, 2012 23:15
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Tars Tarkas posted:People care because this is yet another case of whitewashing, and it's especially damning because it's on a franchise that used to be the leader in having people of color in roles that broke boundaries. Yea Trek doing it is kinda extra poo poo because as crazy and weird as Gene was about what he considered 'progressive', the old stuff really did push racial barriers.
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May 5, 2012 00:21
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Also the level of racism required for whitewashing can very easily just be an unfortunate effect of privilege and no one at all has claimed JJ has any legit hate or disdain for minorities. Whitewashing is a very subtle form of bigotry and doesn't require a guy waking up going 'gonna gently caress over a minority today' to happen.
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May 5, 2012 03:44
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ApexAftermath posted:Nowhere did I say whitewashing isn't happening at all or imply that. Also my opinion was slightly more nuanced then "JJ is a good guy he would never do that DERP!" The example of Avatar: Airbender is actually a pretty valid example of it where I would actually agree that whitewashing is totally what happened considering how blatant is is in that movie and how much of a hack M.Night is. I just don't think it is worthwhile to derail the thread over this. Save the outrage for a movie that does it and clearly knows it is doing it and doesn't give a gently caress. When my grandma calls Obama 'our first negro president' I remind her we don't use that word anymore even when she's saying how nice it is 'one of them' got elected. Yes, when it's intentional you should be a bit more polite about bringing it up than you would if it was intentional but that's not a magic shield.
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May 5, 2012 04:41
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Boogaleeboo posted:At least the British actually have a history in the region. I still find it less racist than a Mexican and [potentially] a Puerto Rican. Both of which are acceptable because, what, all non-whites are interchangeable? Uh you are aware what the British history in the region is, right? Like, they weren't having a decades long tea party over there.
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May 6, 2012 00:05
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Or maybe we can do like I'm fairly sure everyone has done and say 'well I'm still gonna see it and all but this was a kinda crap move'? Alright let's change the topic. Klingons, gonna have ridges or smooth heads?
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May 6, 2012 04:14
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Supercar Gautier posted:Clearly the correct answer is Danny Pudi. "Ok Khan, here's the Genesis Code!" "Cool. Cool, cool, cool."
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May 7, 2012 00:05
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Amethyst posted:One thing I haven't thought about is whether or not they're going to kill off Spock like they do in the original. I doubt it would have the same impact as it did in the original, since we simply haven't spent as much time with this new character. Khan appeared in the show first, I imagine they're going to focus on that era of Khan rather than what you're talking about from Wrath.
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May 7, 2012 08:02
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7thBatallion posted:What if they kill off old Spock? Stop killing Nimoy you jerks 
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May 7, 2012 16:28
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computer parts posted:He loses his home world because Spock hosed up for whatever reason, so he decides to go back in time and destroy Spock's homeworld, and then help conquer the Federation for the Romulans because he's a Romulan patriot or something (that's the only bit I never really got, but based on his actions you could infer that he digs his planet a lot). Romulans are as a culture taught to be very patriotic and respectful of the leadership and all so yea even a random miner dick would be all 'I must reclaim the Empire's glory!' Of course if you're NOT a super nerd it doesn't make sense and that's a failing, but if you're a trek dork it works. Regardless though, bro has a legit beef with the federation, I mean obviously time-genocide is wrong but I can understand 'oh poo poo my people got wiped out including my pregnant wife, well gently caress this noise.'
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May 10, 2012 06:06
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^^^Actually as much as I hate being the nerd going 'well if you read the tie in comics...' they are legit kinda good reads that really humanize Nero as more than the chump who shrieked "FIRE EVERYTHING" as his last words, if you are going 'wait Nero is a loving idiot', try to get your hands on the tie-ins. They do a good job showing him as a kinda dumb dude with a whole lot of very understandable rage feeling like he has nothing left to lose. He's dumb and desperate and you can kinda understand that in his context, and the comics do a decent job showing him as a man with nothing to live for (family is big in his part of Romulan culture, his wife/kid being dead means he basically has nothing). Noxville posted:I took it to be because he was full of rage and none-too-intelligent. Yea remember he's not a politician or soldier or whatever, he's a loving miner. He saw his people wiped out and that drat Vulcan nearby, so he went "FUCKIN VULCANS!!!!" and built a death ship. Basically Nero is a most likely poorly educated dude with a lot of rage and access to a gently caress you space cruiser, and let's not forget Romulans regardless don't care for Vulcans, so finding one to point to to go 'that motherfucker!' is easy. For a bigger answer, Spock basically went rogue to defy Federation choices and help Romulus to honor his father's works, so basically when the guy who, for a long time, has gone 'listen, I want to help, let me help' seemingly isn't around for the literal worst thing to happen, it's kinda easy to go 'oh gently caress you, Spock'. sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 12, 2012 |
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May 12, 2012 00:39
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It works in the context of Romulans though. Like, Romulan 'special ops' involves a poo poo ton of murder because you don't leave any loose threads, but it's all for a purpose and for a solid goal rather than 'MY FAMILY IS DEEEEEAD'. He understands what the Romulan 'special forces' would do in this situation, but he doesn't understand the actual details that come with years of training.. The vibe I got from it was pity because he basically is the equivalent of some redneck who fetishizes the Navy Seals, and when he faces a great loss he gets revenge 'Seal style' with a shitass M16 and a crude understanding of 'special ops'. His anger being misplaced is the whole point of the character, you're supposed to think 'man if he spent half the time of this project not being insane he could maybe do some real good for the Romulan refugees.' Instead, he looks at Spock and goes 'hey, gently caress that dude for not being magic and somehow stopping a supernova'. Maybe I'm just weird but I was left feeling sorry for Nero rather than thinking he was dumb. Also yea, he built the gently caress off ship, refit mining gear would be cool as hell though.
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May 12, 2012 05:51
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So, just saw this today with my dad. It was really cool actually, dad and me have had a big bond over Star Trek, the day I was born he held me and we watched (or, he watched and I was a less than 1 day old baby still trying to figure out why everything is bright and loud) Next Generation. Since then we've always been able to bond over Trek. He hasn't seen a 3D movie in like, 30 years so he demanded we see it in 3D, and shockingly it was pretty ok. I have basically no real feelings either way for modern 3D stuff, so I was pleasantly surprised most of the effects were depth focused to create a more pleasing and organic visual than "OH LOOK AT THIS COMING RIGHT FOR YOU", even the cheesy "Khan reaches his hand out right at YOU YES YOU THE VIEWER" was neat. As for the movie itself we both loved it. We both loved Cumberbatch, we loved the story, we loved the cast (though we enjoyed the first JJTrek already so no real shocks there), it was all a great movie experience for us. Cumberbatch's Khan, while of course in my ideal world I'd like him to look more like Montalban, was pretty much dead on. It's no real shock though, the dude's entire acting history is playing a menacing genius type over and over again, this time he just kicked it up a few notches. Reversing the famous death scene worked really well because the whole point was tying it into the movie's story instead of just making it a "Hey, hey nerds, remember this?". It was a reference, but it was organic, and it fit the story, and that's what matters. This was just generally a really solid movie that had a great cast and a fun experience. It had plot holes, but, well, every Trek movie does. As others have pointed out, the old Trek stuff spoke to old morality, especially TOS era, they're great stories, but they're dated. This movie's morals had to be updated to be relevant. We don't give a gently caress about communists and cold wars, we have hot wars of very morally questionable roots, you have to speak to those ideals for it to work. This movie did that, and not in a hamfisted way. Kirk made his call, but it cost him, he did the right thing but he suffered for it, Admiral Marcus did what he felt was right and The Federation suffered for it. No one really won in the end, Kirk lost his mentor, had his faith in The Federation shaken, and straight up died only to be revived by the blood of Khan. Marcus died a villain a the hands of his own monster. Khan did his damage but not enough, men like Kirk still proudly wear the Federation symbols even if they question it. It was a tragedy, but it was also something our heroes can recover from, albeit changed. That's how this kind of story has to be told, and that's something not that different from Wrath of Khan, at its core. I'm really hopeful for the inevitable sequel, I hope the 'blood of Khan' comes into play, even if Khan remains on ice.
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May 24, 2013 08:18
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