The Catch-all Central/South America thread

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Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

El Hefe posted:

Gremio signed Scolari

I'm not sure how to feel about that. It's like getting a booty call from the love of your life when you were in college, except twenty years have passed and they put on 200lbs.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2014 21:25

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 16:31

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Badger of Basra posted:

I was trying to watch Internacional - Gr�mio but a lot of the Brazilian streams are poo poo.

Stop trying to watch that game, it's terrible so far.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2014 21:04

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I need to share this with all of you (Rafael Moura, on tonight's match against Atl�tico-MG):

https://vine.co/v/MLxuAhKAFYQ

Amazing.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2014 00:25

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

So...you guys remember the whole Portuguesa debacle last year? Contenders for relegation, barely escaped that fate but played an irregular player in their last game - so they lost points and went down anyway, conveniently saving Fluminense from playing the S�rie B?

Well...they might've been bribed to do it.

Now, no one knows who bribed them yet. I could make an educated guess, but I'd rather refrain from it. However, it's another depressing incident on a depressing year for Brazilian football.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2014 15:06

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Gigi Galli posted:

Apparently this is real,

It's real, but it's an ad - a fake front page. Pretty clever.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2014 20:27

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Nah, that preview is pretty dumb. Muricy, king of the 1—0, known for beautiful possession football? Plus the great players he named, geez.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2015 18:13

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Inter-Atl�tico was a great match and a terrible result because gently caress Inter and the marketing machine that is D'Alessandro. But it was a great match. How long until some random Spanish club snags Vald�via?

# ¿ May 14, 2015 15:59

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

joepinetree posted:

This is what the guy who allegedly used the spray had to say:

Sure...

I totally sprayed those people without meaning it, I thought it was one of those pain relief sprays, I just wanted to help!

# ¿ May 19, 2015 20:16

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

El Hefe posted:

jesus he sprayed chemicals all over those players faces

what the hell argentina?

I don't know poo poo about law, but isn't that simple battery in America, a civilized country, which would be a misdemeanor and get you 12 months in jail at most or something?

# ¿ May 19, 2015 21:39

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I'll play the vague heritage card and say LET'S GO GUARANI DE PARAGUAY

now watch them lose

# ¿ May 28, 2015 05:11

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Haha, "Las Cuentas Abiertas de Am�rica Latina".

# ¿ May 29, 2015 04:07

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I think players get out of Brazil way too soon for way too much money, and end up not developing both mentally and technically as a result of that. It doesn't help that Globo, for their own financial gain, hypes up anyone that comes from S�o Paulo or Rio de Janeiro and does half well in the State tournaments. I think the only "new Pel�" that has achieved some success the last ten years is Neymar, everyone else I can think of either froze to death in Eastern Europe or got stuck as a rotation option at a Champions League side.

El Hefe posted:

what Brazilians haven't realized yet is that you can still have all the orgies you want as long as you're professional and show up on time to every training session and give 100% like Benzema or other European players

Also it's just this new generation, Rom�rio and Ronaldo knew their poo poo.

Dias fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 3, 2015

# ¿ Jul 3, 2015 18:28

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

oops, quote ain't edit

Dias fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 3, 2015

# ¿ Jul 3, 2015 18:28

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

joepinetree posted:

This a long effort post, but the real issue is the chimera that lei Pele created. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve the whole "club owns players" thing, but lei Pele essentially made it so managers own players now.

For a long time the Brazilian league was one of the best in the world. It had crazy rules and politicking, but in terms of talent it was hard to beat. In 1970 for example, not only did all Brazil players play in Brazil, but a lot of Uruguaying and etc players also played there (Mazurkiewicz was a fan favorite at Atletico, Ancheta at Gremio, Rocha at Sao Paulo). Even as recently as 2002 most of the Brazil team played in Brazil.

Lei Pele was sort of the Bosman ruling for Brazil. It was passed in 1998 and allowed players to leave teams at the end of their contract. Early on lots of Brazilian youngsters left for free (Ronaldinho, Mancini, etc).

Eventually, Brazilian courts created something called the "economics rights" over a player. The courts claimed that players had "federation rights" and "economic rights." A club would have federation rights over a player while the player was under contract with the club, and once the contract was up, the club lost those rights and the player was free to move. But the courts also created the economic rights, which is who the money goes to in case of a transfer fee. And those remain in effect regardless of contractual situation with a particular club. So now a manager or businessman can "own" the economic rights over a player.

One of my high school friends is now a player agent, and is sleazy as hell. Here's what has happened since this mess was created. Managers and agents now are the real scouts for talent. They will find some 13 year old who has potential and will sign a deal with them. They will get the economic rights over that player in exchange for a little bit of money upfront and a promise that the agent will get them into a big club. Now, this is not a good deal for the player, but the way most corrupt brazilian clubs work nowadays is that you have to have that connection to land at the youth division of a top club. When the youth player signs with that club, the manager/agent will negotiate it so that they retain a large part of the "economic rights" over the player. Which means that in case of a sale, they will get a part of the proceeds.

To add to the sleaziness, these economic rights are not regulated and not registered anywhere. It once became public that the presidents of cruzeiro and corinthians were intermediaries in the sales of all players for their clubs (i.e., the player would not be sold directly to Europe: it would be sold to their agency - based in the Cayman Islands- and then sold again to Europe). So club presidents can make a huge amount of money that way. Which means that despite record breaking transfer fees, TV deals and overall money invested in Brazilian soccer, the clubs are more indebted than ever.

So that is what leads to the problem Dias mentioned. Before, in the still corrupt but simpler old days, player agents made bank by getting a percentage of salaries and contracts. Meaning they had a huge incentive to make sure their clients landed at top paying European clubs. Now, player agents and managers make bank through "economic rights" and transfer fees, which means that their incentive is to get the player sold as soon as possible for as much as possible, regardless of where to. So Brazilian prospects get sold anywhere, including to UAE, Qatar, Ukranian, Chinese and Russian teams all the time. So while there is no way that the most recent German prospect would end up playing in Qatar at 20, Brazilian players do it all the time. Now, that is terrible for the long term development of those players. But guess what, that means more profit! Because once that player gets fed up with playing in the Ukraine, his manager/agent will guarantee that he can land at a top Brazilian club again. Because even if they've been terrible, the club president will be in on the "economic rights" (which only exists in Brazil). So there is an incentive to keep these players bouncing back and forth between Brazil and other nations.

So Bernard starts out as a top prospect, ends up in the Ukraine, hates it there, forces his way back to Brazil, where he will land at a top club making a lot of money despite no performance (because the president of that club will get a bit of those economic rights), and will be sold again abroad, generating another transfer fee to be divided between the owners of his economic rights. And so he is a has been by the time he is 22.

Yeah, this is a great examination of why Brazilian football is hosed right now and how the Lei Pel� was responsible for many of the problems our league and national team are facing. It also doesn't help that the mounting debt Brazilian clubs face is another strong incentive for selling young talent as soon and as often as possible - or if not an incentive, at least a hell of a good excuse. Plus, now that you made some cash but lost a player, you need a replacement, and <prospect from three years ago> is benched at Osasuna anyway...

# ¿ Jul 3, 2015 20:37

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Semis between Internacional and Tigres were great, and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_JcM45gaFs

# ¿ Jul 23, 2015 04:16

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

We already waste so much money, we could pay someone off to retire the buck-toothed rear end in a top hat for good. It's not like Gr�mio doesn't have a ton of worthless players anyway. Hell, hire me for a game and I'll do the job.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2015 23:26

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I mean, it's not like Cuca is exactly a brilliant hire either.

Brazilian teams need to stop firing coaches for little to no reason, goddamnit.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 20:56

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I mean, that's the usual Corinthians cycle. Buy a lot of players with money from...places, maybe win a title, sell everyone, have a poo poo year, rinse, repeat.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 22:22

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

gr�mio sucks and is bad and should close its football department and focus on something we have a chance to win i dunno make a csgo team or something

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 04:31

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

gently caress the French League is always a good position to take.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2016 17:17

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Hey, at least Gr�mio won't be the first Brazilian team out this Libertadores. Thanks, Corinthians, I knew we could count on you for that.

# ¿ May 5, 2016 03:53

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I've been telling people that Brazilian football is dead since before our World Cup, where for some reason people always mentioned us as favorites. It's just deader now. The "Shaktar quota" has been replaced by the "Chinese quota" and we're bringing back washed-up players in hopes of reviving our former days of glory.

I didn't even know Kak� was still alive, although I suppose MLS is a fate worse than death anyway.

# ¿ May 27, 2016 23:43

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Loco Abreu is still playing, holy poo poo.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2016 11:22

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Soooo the soccer thread for the Olympics is absolute garbage much like all of TRP, I'mma be commenting the Brazil games here if y'all don't mind. Yesterday the women's team trampled Sweden 5-1 and Marta literally scored rebounding on a Swede: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JcFhM09jkk

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 13:32

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Gigi Galli posted:

Sweden looked really bad defensively, Brazil was just having fun out there. Christiane's first goal was almost a Zlatan if it didn't deflect. Still good.

Yeah, them seemed lost in the pitch, and between Cristiane and Marta Brazil just hosed with them, it was like watching our 2004-ish men's team. I miss Brazil being good at soccer, man. Also Gabriel Jesus missed a ridiculous goal against South Africa, holy poo poo. Iraq should be an easy match IN THEORY, tho, so that tie might not matter too much.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 16:09

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

holy poo poo brazil suuuuuuuucks

Like, all of our olympic teams are kinda garbo but we're getting stopped by fuckin' Iraq, what the hell.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 02:32

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Simone Poodoin posted:

I was gonna watch the Brazil game but sounds like it's poo poo, right? The tennis match is really good right now and I don't want to switch if it's poo poo.

If you wanna see an upset there's a chance you'll get it, but it's a pretty boring-rear end game.

joepinetree posted:

How the hell did palmeiras manage to fool someone into paying 32 million for Gabriel de jesus?

Both Gabriels are trash, it's like seeing a new Lulinha and Dentinho.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 02:55

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Simone Poodoin posted:

Fixed the cable, watching this sad display.

Are they really doing the puto chant? I though I heard "bicha" I n that free kick the Iraq keeper took.

They are. Stupid, because they're fuckin' kicking out people doing political chants but calling people faggots is apparently a-okay.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 03:49

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Man, this is an atrocious team. I hope we just go out in the group stages, because it'd at least be funny.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 04:04

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Also I have a couple of Palmeiras supporters on my rear end on twitter because how dare I speak will of Gabriel Jesus, Guardiola wants him so he must be good!

Yeah, because Barcelona never hired Keirrison and Maxi L�pez.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 04:08

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

El Hefe posted:

The stadium for Brazil-Denmark is loving packed, lol if Brazil doesn't win.

Jinxed it.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 02:28

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

El Hefe posted:

Looks like Bauza managed to convince Messi to comeback to the national team, he's gonna play against Uruguay and Venezuela in September in the WC qualifiers.

He just wanted to dodge the Olympics.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2016 21:22

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Clip below is :nws:

Atletico Nacional x Bol�var, Sudamericana, and the goal celebration of a very...excited Atl�tico Nacional supporter.

https://twitter.com/impedimento/status/768636680802799616

# ¿ Aug 25, 2016 03:35

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Polidoro posted:

he doesnt look very excited tbh

I mean, it's only the Sudamericana.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2016 03:49

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Yeah, I can't see that working in Latin America. I figure UCL games get amazing turnouts because they're matches between these galactic teams in big cities, no one is gonna buy a ticket in advance to see Atl�tico Nacional in Paraguay, I don't think.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 08:45

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

The one that I actually hate is the single host city for finals. Like, it DOESN'T WORK for Latin America, it's not a worldwide spectacle that attract tourists from around the world, and for actual fans it's incredible hard to afford to travel thousands of miles in a heartbeat to watch finals.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2016 22:23

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

I'm following the news, Chapecoense was heading to Colombia for the first leg of the Sudamericana Cup finals. Lots of conflicting reports, but no deaths confirmed as of now. Lots of injuries tho.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 06:53

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Crazy Ted posted:

Well that would be fantastic. Before posting I'd seen a Tweet that had said there were ~25 dead and 45-50 injured.

Yeah, that was fake news, right now the only info is that there are survivors and 10 people were already rescued. No confirmed deaths, and with any luck there won't be any.

Man, this sucks, Chapecoense is a small team from a state without tons of soccer tradition that has been picking up steam the last few years, this was their first shot at an international title and I think most Brazilian soccer fans were behind them.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 07:06

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Update: rescue is underway, fire dpt. chief says "there are many survivors". Alan Ruschel, one of Chape's fullbacks, is already in the hospital - apparently with a hip fracture and a concussion, but in stable condition.

They're saying it was an electrical failure and the pilots made a smart call by dumping all the fuel and finding a place to attempt a forced landing. No explosion, but the aircraft was torn in half.

Dias fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Nov 29, 2016

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 08:17

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 16:31

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

JFairfax posted:

has anyone been eaten yet?

Hey, I get to use my spanish. Yes, la concha de tu madre.

New info says 75 dead.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 09:59

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