Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

In a move that should surprise nobody (well, apart from being absolutely loving retarded) there is a proposal to break up Network Rail that thankfully appears to be meeting some stiff cross-party opposition.

For those who have forgotten, in the clusterfuck diagram in the OP Network Rail is responsible for the upkeep of 95%+ of the railway track, tunnels, bridges and signals; and operating a good few stations as well.

The Grauniad posted:

Train travel will worsen under government plans, MPs warn

Network Rail breakup and funding curbs 'will result in higher fares, cuts in services and more crowded trains', says motion

Trains will become more crowded and expensive and services will be cut under government plans for the railways, MPs have warned.

More than 100 MPs have signed an early day motion criticising government proposals to break up Network Rail and curb funding.

The motion warns that the government's plans will "worsen passenger services through the loss of thousands of frontline workers from trains, stations, ticket offices, safety-critical infrastructure and operational roles", and "will result in higher fares, cuts in services and more crowded trains".

The government has demanded that the industry make savings, with a view to cutting subsidies as well as pledging to end the annual above-inflation fare rises. Ticket office closures look certain after Justine Greening, the transport secretary, confirmed this year that she wanted the industry to deliver savings of �3.5bn a year by 2019. Responding to the review conducted by Sir Roy McNulty last year, she said passengers and taxpayers were picking up the tab for a "costly efficiency gap" and reform was long overdue.

Lets take a break here and look back at the OP, specifically the McNulty report analysis as provided by Christian Wolmar:

Wolmar posted:

The first seemed a no-brainer. McNulty correctly identified the lack of co-ordination in the industry as one of the generators of unnecessary costs. However, nowhere in his report does he suggest any overall coordinating body. Instead, we get the madcap idea that since the problem was created initially by fragmentation, lets have more of it by creating a plethora of diverse bodies, whose functions will be unclear and whose power will be unlimited.

Back to the news.

Grauniad posted:

The signatories say that proposals to break up the track operator, Network Rail, will make the railways more complex and less efficient and ignore the experience of European counterparts.

Now lets cut back to Wolmar.

Wolmar posted:

George Muir, the former boss of the Association of Train Operating Companies, reckons there will now be ten bodies, six of them new, including � I�m not making this up � a Technology Strategy Leadership Group, a Technology Strategy Advisory Group, and a Rail Innovation and Growth Team, all supposedly to co-ordinate cross industry activity. He says in an article in Passenger Transport that it is �Frankenstein, the fat controller� and likens it �to a manual on local authority organisation�. Muir is not a man who wants to return to the days of British Rail but he does point out, rather acidly, that: �What seems odd is that we are seeking to emulate the efficiency of European comparators, France, Switzerland, Sweden, the Netherlands and the like, by doing something completely different from what they do. You can be certain that their efficiency does not come a thicket of strategy documents and cross-industry bodies�.

Government in "missing the entire bloody point" shocker.

Continuing...

The Graun posted:

The motion, tabled by the Labour MP John McDonnell, has attracted cross-party support including the former Liberal Democrat leaders Charles Kennedy and Menzies Campbell. It urges the government to run the railway as a "public service" with "affordable fares and proper staffing levels".

The TUC has meanwhile highlighted figures from the rail regulator showing that increased fares have come while investment in the network by train operating companies has halved over the last five years, from �743m in 2006-07 to �377m last year.

The TUC deputy general secretary, Frances O'Grady, said: "MPs from across the political spectrum are voicing the concerns of thousands of their constituents who feel ripped off by private train operators who inflict heavy fare rises while cutting staff on trains and stations and keeping investment in decent facilities on trains and stations to a minimum.

"These same companies are now being rewarded by the government with longer franchises and more freedom to maximise profits while cutting staff and closing ticket offices, showing exactly where ministers' priorities lie � not with the passenger but with the executives and shareholders of the train operating companies."

The RMT union's general secretary, Bob Crow, said: "The scandal of rail privatisation, which has bled billions in private profit out of our transport system for the last two decades, not only continues but is set to worsen under the plans laid out in the government's McNulty rail review.

"This government has learnt nothing from the tragedies of the past and is allowing the profiteers to bleed the railways of desperately needed investment while creating the perfect conditions for another Hatfield or Potters Bar. It is a national disgrace."

The rail minister, Theresa Villiers, said: "There is a consensus in the rail industry that inefficiency and waste is costing hard-pressed farepayers and taxpayers too much. That is why the government has set out a roadmap for action alongside the industry to deliver real value for money so we can end inflation-busting fare rises and deliver a better service for passengers."

I dont have the time to dig the figures up but the cost per mile of rail travel in the UK is many many times that in mainland europe.

Im glad that such a proposal is meeting stiff opposition since the reality is really anything other than the government position. Bob Crow brings up the Potters Bar and Hatfield rail crashes, both of which were directly attributed to the private companies taking over maintenance from Railtrack and not having adequate maintenance records.

"Wikipedia, Hatfield Crash posted:

A preliminary investigation found a rail had fragmented as trains passed and that the likely cause was "rolling contact fatigue" (defined as multiple surface-breaking cracks). Such cracks are caused by high loads where the wheels contact the rail.[2] Repeated loading causes fatigue cracks to grow. When they reach a critical size, the rail fails. Over 300 critical cracks were found in rails at Hatfield. The problem was known about before the accident, and replacement rails made available but never delivered to the correct location for installation. The implication that other rails might be affected led to speed restrictions on huge lengths of railway, causing significant delays on many routes, while checks were carried out on the rail condition. The incidence of cracks similar to those found at Hatfield was alarmingly high throughout the country.[citation needed]

The rail infrastructure company Railtrack, having divested much of the engineering knowledge of British Rail into maintenance contractors, had inadequate maintenance records and no accessible asset register. It did not know how much other "gauge corner cracking" around the network could lead to a Hatfield-like accident. Railtrack imposed over 1,200 emergency speed restrictions and instigated a nationwide (and costly) track replacement programme.

Wikipedia, Potters Bar rail crash posted:

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) report released in May 2003 found that the points were poorly maintained and that this was the principal cause of the accident.[6] The bolts that held the stretcher bars that keep the rails apart had come loose or gone missing, resulting in the points moving while the train passed over them. The points had been fully inspected on 1 May by a team working for the private railway maintenance firm Jarvis and there had been a further visual inspection on 9 May the day before the crash, with no problems reported.[citation needed] However, that evening, a rail worker was travelling on the line northbound and reported "lethal vibrations" on the track at Potters Bar whilst going over that same point on the track, point '2182A'.[citation needed] Jarvis employees did make an inspection of the points but, due to an inadequate incident reporting system, they were sent to the wrong end of the platform to check the track and points[citation needed] and did not find the 'loose nuts' that subsequently led to the accident.

Initially after the accident, Jarvis claimed that the points' poor condition was due to sabotage of some sort,[7] and that its maintenance was not to blame. However, no solid evidence of any sabotage has ever come to light. Furthermore, the HSE report found that other sets of points in the Potters Bar area showed similar (but not as serious) maintenance deficiencies and the poor state of maintenance "probably arose from a failure to understand fully the design and safety requirements".

And if you go a little further back in time you run into the Ladbroke Grove crash..

Wikipedia, Ladbroke Grove crash posted:

The Ladbroke Grove rail crash (also known as the Paddington train crash) was a rail accident which occurred on 5 October 1999 at Ladbroke Grove, London, England. 31 people were killed and more than 520 injured. This was the second major accident on the Great Western Main Line in just over two years, the first being the Southall rail crash of September 1997, a few miles west. Both crashes would have been prevented by an operational ATP (Automatic Train Protection) system, but wider fitting of this had been rejected on cost grounds. This severely damaged public confidence in the management and regulation of safety of Britain's privatised railway system.

A public inquiry into the crash by Lord Cullen was held in 2000. A separate 'joint[1] inquiry' in 2000 confirmed the rejection of ATP and the mandatory adoption of a cheaper and less effective system, but noted a mismatch between public opinion and cost-benefit analysis.

Safety costs too much!

Like Bozza said, the rulebook is written in blood.

Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 10:27 on May 9, 2012

# ¿ May 9, 2012 10:23

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 09:03

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

EDIT:

I derped. Still not woken up yet.

Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 08:31 on May 11, 2012

# ¿ May 11, 2012 08:27

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Additionally, whats your take on this development:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/25/anarchists-claim-railway-signalling-bristol

# ¿ May 25, 2012 17:02

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

I find it really loving hard to believe that poo poo Bransoon says about being the best long distance carrier or whatever. I have venomous memories of being stuck on a four car voyager train that ran a route from penzance to edinburgh (or some other massively northern city) that was regularly rammed to capacity all the way through. I cant imagine what it was like for people going all the way but standing for three hours plymouth-birmingham is a memory that will never fade for all the wrong reasons.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2012 10:16

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Each time I travel on FCC either to my dads in St Neots or down to Gatwick to see the girlfriend in :norway:

I take great delight in tweeting all the faults of the train to the FCC twitter account.

Last trip I took each and every carriage stank of piss and the doors nearest me would smash open two inches from the air pressure of a passing high speed train.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2012 19:51

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

PkerUNO posted:

And yet Paris already has two such lines, one of which is the oldest Metro line in Paris, retrofitted with platform edge doors and shiny new cabless trains.

Before you go any further, please go and research the history of the underground, taking particular note that at its most basic level it is a networked clusterfuck of different lines built at different times by different companies, all with their own differences in terms of loading gauge, height, etc.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2012 11:16

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Havent we been waiting about two years for the level crossing post at this point?

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 18:12

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Malcolm XML posted:

Cmon bozza I want to know every detail about level crossings

Doesnt everyone? :ohdear:

We were promised an effortpost on level crossings so goddamnit thats exactly what we're gonna get! :argh:

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 19:39

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Wheres our level crossings post? :colbert:

You've got time enough to swan around in the sun with a big bass drum strapped to your chest, but no time for level crossings? :argh:

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 17:16

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Level crossings! :argh:

# ¿ Aug 3, 2013 01:06

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Quick question about ticket refunds:

I've bought a return ticket in advance to be picked up from a ticket machine at paddington. Turns out in the meantime my travel plans for the return have changed - I cant get the train back in time for a flight out of the country. Can I get one half of this ticket (the return journey that wont be used) or am I poo poo out of luck?

# ¿ Dec 15, 2013 23:06

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

I bought Advance tickets - according to FGW they cant be refunded through the website at all, never mind just refunding the yet-to-be-unused return tickets. :/

# ¿ Dec 16, 2013 15:06

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Well at the time I was pretty sure on the train times but then the company I was going to fly out to :norway:

with decided to go bankrupt so I had to get new flights - and theres no way I can get from Plymouth to Heathrow for 9AM by train. Still, something to bear in mind in the future I guess.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2013 12:29

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 09:03

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Bozza posted:

I've been nominated for a National Rail Award for Outstanding Teamwork as part of the team that sorted out Maidenhead when it flooded! There's about 20 of us going, gotta buy a bowtie.

Bet the loving bar is expensive :/

Maybe you could trade that bow tie for a level crossings post?

Congrats!

I found a series on youtube thats been strangely entertaining: The Railway - Keeping Britain On Track. You can find it here on this guys youtube channel.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2014 10:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway