Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Baconroll posted:

Sad bit of ancient history news - King Tut's burial mask has been dropped and the large ornate beard snapped off...Then has been crudely epoxied back into place and then they managed to smear some epoxy on the face as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30931369

Somebody on NPR was saying the visible epoxy has been there since it was excavated.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

loving algae ruined our environment with their unregulated emission of carcinogenic O2.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

It seems like he's researching more horse archery stuff than the longbow styles. I don't think the voiceover is matching the images in a few case (like the 5000 year thing played over more recent images).

So basically practicing archery with different priorities (more speed, lower draw weight). And doing a lot of impressive trick shots, of course.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jan 25, 2015

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Boat insurance was also a pretty great money maker.

Along with the equally lucrative boat insurance fraud.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Didn't the Nazis steal that eagle from Rome, anyway?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Majorian posted:

Well, but here's the thing: the stuff we have in Linear B script is only the clerical/inventory stuff, but that may well be because that's all that survived. Even if Linear B couldn't be used to write poetry or prose, I have to believe that poets and writers in the cities used one script or another to write it down. You're right that your average dirt farmer wouldn't need to know Linear B to survive, but keep in mind, by the end of the Bronze Age, cities like Mycenae and Knossos had become fairly large and complex, at least by the standards of the day (e: and the Late Helladic cultures were also several hundred years old by the 12th century BC). A significant amount of the population lived in and around the palace centers, and probably didn't contribute directly to the economy - you instead had merchants and lawyers and doctors and whatever. I have to believe that these people were literate, wrote things down, and provided a market for a certain amount of poetry, literature, or even just written instruction. Whether or not they usually read or wrote things down with Linear B, or with some other script, the question still remains: what happened to these people? What happened to their literacy? Did they just all die out when the cataclysm hit their cities? Did they just decide not to pass their skills onto the next generation, when it became clear that there was so much less demand, with the palace economies gone? Was it something else altogether? We may never know, but boy, if it isn't the most interesting question to me in the whole greater mystery that is the Late Bronze Age Collapse.

Have you read Letters to the Kings of Mari?

Just a ton of translated tablets. It's neat to see all the random miscellaneous stuff that's been recorded, like instructions on how to properly read a liver, a message to the king saying his dog just had puppies, or trade and military instructions.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

I love the bit from The Birds where Prometheus shows up holding an umbrella.

Gods can't see you if you're under an umbrella.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Ras Het posted:

Except that he came to the Latins via the Etruscans, I believe.

And kept going until he hit Japan.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Speaking of ISIL

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Bitter Mushroom posted:

Just to put the subject to bed, western civilization as a whole is the modern Rome. We have plenty of columns, infighting and dicks gratified all over the place.

Plus, we bitterly dispute who currently is leading Rome.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Grand Fromage posted:

It's labor intensive (salt mining is a pain and there aren't a lot of places you can do it, and harvesting sea salt takes a lot of work), however also the value of salt in the ancient world has been vastly overstated in pop culture. It was certainly much more valuable than it is today but stories of people being paid in salt because it was better than money and that kind of thing are not true.

Yeah, in Rome salt ran about 13 denarii per liter, or something like that.

Still high compared to today, since you can get it for twenty bux a ton.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Thermopylae was an inside job.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

icantfindaname posted:

It was clearly the Koreans

Coreans

Otherwise they wouldn't be the c people.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Been meaning to link this, next time Atlantischat came around.

quote:

When the mythical island of Atlantis submerged into the ocean, it took all of its orichalcum with it. The legendary cast metal was reputedly second only to gold in value. A team of divers say they’ve recovered 39 blocks of orichalcum in a sixth-century shipwreck on the seafloor near Sicily

The hard-hitting facebook-covering coverage you expect from IFL Science

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Patter Song posted:

Back on topic...trivia question. Who was the last Roman Emperor to have a monument in the city of Rome? This is relevant to the Rome/Byzantine question.


This guy.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Finally, an authentic experience where you can Fight For The Glory of Rome

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

PittTheElder posted:

Given the whole predestination thing, I don't really get why Calvinism didn't just descend into a breathing pile of debauchery. I probably don't understand predestination either. :v:

Ah, but if you descended into debauchery, you were never part of the Elect all along.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Flipped to Olympus on scifi.

Literally the first thing I see is a mention that a goddess is symbolized by an 'ear of corn'.

I'm not sure what else I was expecting.,

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Ah yiss, look at that hot mermaid

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Blue Star posted:

How literally did people take their polytheistic religions and myths? According to Greek mythology, the gods lived on Mount Olympus. But there's a real Mount Olympus and obviously there were no actual gods on it, so what did ancient Greeks think? Same goes for the River Styx: it's supposed to separate our world from Hades but again, it's obviously just a plain ol' river. Also, did people really believe in hydras, cyclopses, satyrs, whatever?

Not too seriously!

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Baudolino posted:

Did no one in ancient Greece question if the Oracle of Delphi was actually seeing the future or just tripping on fumes?

The tripping on fumes idea has been discarded by most historians anyway.

But on the subject of ancient Mediterranean hallucinogens, dream fish are kinda neat.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 18, 2015

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Phobophilia posted:

Someone please post the xbox live screengrab of someone going "your so gay you even kiss girls"

Was browing the openbook thread, stumbled across it.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3305372&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post376975585

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

The Roman Empire fell when Augustus died, as there was no successor worthy to follow in his footsteps.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Tao Jones posted:

I think Julius Caesar won the ancient world fame game. You can ask practically anyone who Julius Caesar was and at least get "oh, the Roman guy, they stabbed him". But if you ask who Cicero was, you maybe get Latin students, and if you ask who Clodius Pulcher was, well, forget it.

Herostratus

:smugbert:

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Our society today is well rooted in the traditions of Athens

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Grand Fromage posted:

If you have an answer, you'll probably get a Nobel prize. This is a big area Noam Chomsky writes in, for some reading suggestions. Here's my general understanding.

Communication is useful for any animals that live in groups, so evolution would favor it. The idea of using sound to communicate originates somewhere well back in evolutionary history, since we see it in such a wide range of creatures. That probably started by accident and the animals that could cooperate survived better, and then we have communication by sound.

How and where that becomes language is a huge mystery. For one, we don't actually have a good definition of language. Humans obviously have it, but what about other animals? Other primates are able to make a variety of sounds that communicate different things, which seem to have consistency. Chimps have culture, and different groups of chimps use different sounds to communicate ideas. Is that language? What about whales and dolphins? How about something like a cat or dog, which clearly can make different sounds to communicate a variety of emotional states? Or ants, which don't make sounds but are able to use different chemicals to relay information? Bee dancing? Where do we draw a line for language?

Past that, there's an idea of a natural grammar. Basically the human mind has some set capability for grammar and the production of sound, which is a universal trait. Your grammar usage and phonemes then are programmed by the language you hear around you. There is a whole lot of disagreement about the details of this, but the bare bones idea seems to be hard to argue against. All humans (who don't have a brain defect) are able to acquire language naturally by being exposed to it, and there are no preferences for this language. Any human baby will acquire the language of the environment it is placed in, and all babies become equally fluent. Clearly there's something built into the brain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Sign_Language is probably the best example we have.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

HEY GAL posted:

Not even--all you can judge is their aesthetic choices, their preferred literary style. To turn around from literature to making arguments about brain structure isn't even wrong, it's so out there.

Edit: What's the explanation in this theory for people who hear the voice of the divine after we developed modern brains? Are they just crazy?

Edit 2: Isn't there introspection in Gilgamesh, after Enkidu dies and Gilgamesh thinks about his own death?

Well, you actually can tell if someone is severely schizophrenic based on what they write. yvette's bridal, for instance.

Thing is, those don't look anything like ancient literature.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Ynglaur posted:

Here, I'll tell you how it ends: he gets captured and sold into slavery..

You forgot War of the Worlds.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Pompeii would still be around if they hadn't been hotlinked.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

IIRC, the Colosseum had all the women crammed into some subprime seating.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Egyptian doctors were also considered super great, though.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

homullus posted:

If I remember rightly, though, it was a super mixed bag. Like, they figured some positive consequences of honey being anaerobic, but then would also put mouse droppings in something else.

The Edwin Smith papyrus shows that at least some of it was pretty advanced.

I've heard that sending a guy an Egyptian doctor was pretty significant when conducing diplomacy.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Josef bugman posted:

:thejoke:

On a slightly off topic topic, do we really know why Opium caught on the way it did in China? All I have found are lots of things saying "lack of opportunity for advancement" and "dissatisfactions with Manchus" but those do not seem a reasonable enough explanation for the sheer explosion of shitfacedness that came out before and after the Opium wars.

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/journey-into-the-opium-underworld/

because the stuff you used to smoke it was cool as poo poo.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Phobophilia posted:

Having a big pit filled with grains and lots of guys with spears to guard it also helps with food security. It's not like hunter-gathering is naturally food-secure. If your foraging ground runs out and the next one along the line collapsed for some reason, you're pretty hosed unless you have enough food to get to the next-next foraging area along the line.

The biggest issue for hunter/gatherer populations is seasonal food bottlenecks. If your population is capped by what can be foraged in the dead of winter, you'll spend most of your life with way more food available than you can eat.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Obligatory Dinosaur Comic

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Letters to the king of mari is a pretty fun skim. Just a big pile of ancient tweets.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

From Philogelos


242. A man with bad breath is constantly looking to the heavens and saying lots of prayers. After a quick, baleful glance at him, Zeus calls down, ‘Have a little mercy! You’ve got gods in the underworld, too, you know!’

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Friendly Tumour posted:

Well it's a question of perspectives, but actually we understand brain function quite well!

As a graduate student specifically studying the brain, no we really don't.

EDIT: I mean unless you know all the answers to really obvious questions like 'why do people need to sleep', even before we get into detailed investigation on specific regions, in which case I'm all ears.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Friendly Tumour posted:

I was mostly talking about how neurons function and how columns work. Point being that there isn't really anything mystical about brains. I mean yeah, we can't map them efficiently and we can't really figure out how individual neural nets are connected (also known as people), but we can definately say that we know much genetics influences the functioning of individuals. Yes, genetics affects us through how it alters the functioning of individual neurons and how brain regions are formed during foetal and infantile periods, but once it gets going a brain is essentially independent from genetics insofar as individual columnar units are concerned.

The column model is a horrible oversimplification :bahgawd:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Dalael posted:

I dont know. I always thought that "catch this" on a bomb or mortar round was really clever.

I think they've found "catch!" on sling bullets too.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 21, 2015

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply