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 Following a show-stopping debut at Salute 2012 the new 10mm wargame Dropzone Commander is available for pre-order here for release on July 23rd, so I thought I'd try to drum up some interest. Pricing looks reasonable in general, and they have some army bundles that save a few pounds over buying individuall. The smallest army being cheaper than the current Space Marine battle force (for you GW people). And the rulebook is £15 for 152 pages, in full colour. I'm not quite ready to commit to an army myself just yet, but I will be ordering the rulebook and probably a model two. And then inevitably an army, or all of them. I am a Hobby Idiot. They seem to be using some sort of super duper resin which holds detail incredibly well and, according to people who've tested it on other forums, is incredibly resilient to being dropped and being bent. By all accounts Finecast does not compare at all. Although obviously take that with a pinch of salt until one of us gets hold of some to try. The pictures below are just a few of the units available, obviously there are lots more on the website. Fluff: quote:It is the Year 2670 The Game: The rules aren't out yet, but here's how Hawk Wargames describe it. quote:You join this universe in the earliest days of mankind's ambitious invasion to retake the central planets from the Scourge. Bloody battles and epic conflict awaits as races, generals and individuals take sides. Whether you're fighting for humanity, the Scourge or for your own ends is up to you! The factions: United Colonies of Mankind (UCM).  quote:Forged in desperation, united by adversity and resurgent in power, the UCM exists for a single purpose - to wrest mankind's lost strongholds from the clutches of the Scourge. A collection of diverse and remote frontier worlds, the UCM is a restless cultural melting pot, bubbling with a righteous desire for vengeance. quote:The UCM are all-rounder's, with the ability to field a good number of troops. The UCM also has a lot of choice for air power, such as the awesome Seraphim. Their dropships are some of the cheapest in the game in terms of points cost, and as such they can normally get a few more ground units onto the table than other armies.         Post-Human Republic (PHR).  quote:A tiny portion of humanity turned its back on mankind in the waning days of the last Golden Age. Over one and a half centuries later, the PHR has emerged from the shadows as an unrecognisable civilisation, its people irrevocably changed. They are no longer simple human beings, they are post-humans - cyborgs. quote:The PHR have the widest range of weapon options and upgrades, as well as some of the toughest units in the game. what they lack in numbers they make up for in quality. Almost every choice is better equipped than equivalents, although normally cost more points.         Shaltari Tribes.  quote:The Shaltari are an ancient and highly developed species. Their technology is advanced to a level of sophistication rivalled only by its potency. They have traversed the stars for millennia, learned myriad truths, and have fought countless wars. Through their knowledge, the Shaltari transcend even death itself, and can endure indefinitely, perceiving the ebb and flow of time like no other race. quote:The Shaltari operate very differently from the other races, since they use teleport gates to deploy and relocate on the battlefield. This gives the player a wealth of tactical options. their units are lightly armoured, although this is offset by their use of 'Passive Countermeasures' -all encompassing energy shields which effectively give them a saving throw from shots at any range or power.         The Scourge  quote:The Scourge are foul, neuro-parasitic lifeforms which can utterly dominate an unfortunate host, bending its life to its will. They thrive on the conquest and absorption of other races, their very mode of existence as potent a threat as their formidable battlefield technology. They are the galaxy's ultimate predators. quote:The Scourge are fast, aggressive and devastating at close range. Shrewd players will benefit most from their abilities, since left exposed their units can absorb less punishment that those of the other races. they also have several unorthodox units (such as the Desolator), which gives them some interesting modes of attack.        Scenery: Unfortunately the extremely cool modular building terrain (all the buildings in the pictures) isn't available yet, nor is their cheaper alternative card scenery. However, as they point out 10mm is pretty much the scale for model railway scenery.     The modular system they've come up with seems to be similar to Cities of Death, in that it's a series of tiles which lock together however you please. Apparently this would scale up, with enough kits, to build skyscrapers.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:20
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Post Humans look nails
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Jun 10, 2012 22:50
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I don't dig the colour scheme too much but the Shaltari stuff itself looks pretty neat. Teleporty play style sounds potentially fun too.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:53
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I have a gigantic boner over the thought of using that terrain for Epic Armageddon.
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Jun 10, 2012 23:02
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I was super enthused for weeks about this game. Then the site went live and the prices are a bit of a ballstomp. The starter sets are around 100 dollars each. I like the models a lot, but im leary of cost, and game size. If it uses a lot of models, like it loooks like it will...then its going to be wh40k type of pricey. Still somewhat interested, but that took the wind out of my sails a bit.
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Jun 10, 2012 23:20
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PaintVagrant posted:I was super enthused for weeks about this game. Then the site went live and the prices are a bit of a ballstomp. The starter sets are around 100 dollars each. Keep in mind that, as a brand new game, there's no established "points level" that everyone plays at. If you want to run a dropship, a couple grav-tanks and some Prowlers as the Scourge it may well be perfectly viable and fun! EDIT: Or they could gently caress you into needing MASSIVE ARMIES and a MILLION INFANTRY. It's kind of up in the air at the moment 
Mikael Kreoss fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 23:42
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Yeah, the price on the starters is pretty up there for such an unknown quantity. Compare it to something like Assault on Black Reach, where you actually get more models per faction, two factions, plus a copy of the rules and some dice. And that thing initially retailed for what, $75?
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Jun 10, 2012 23:52
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If it's remotely possible I want to run like a million prowlers and Plasma-gently caress tanks to death  . Because it's funny.
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Jun 10, 2012 23:55
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PaintVagrant posted:I was super enthused for weeks about this game. Then the site went live and the prices are a bit of a ballstomp. The starter sets are around 100 dollars each. But I'm still not convinced by the old "£70 really isn't that much if you consider that it buys you everything you need to play the game" - fact is, the price per model is pretty bad, especially for 10mm.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:07
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It looks pretty awesome! The models look ripe for magnetising so I can clip in and zoom my units around the battlefield. That being said, they could go the $$ route and make you buy full/empty dropships and the cargo to represent a unit. I agree with PV though, £70 for a starter box, not including the rules seems really steep to me, that is pretty much on par with buying a warhammer starter (£61.50); and to be honest that really puts me off. I still have an interest though, and would like to base my decision on seeing the rules + I have a huge nerd boner for dropships, whoosh!
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Jun 11, 2012 00:16
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Fix posted:Yeah, the price on the starters is pretty up there for such an unknown quantity. Compare it to something like Assault on Black Reach, where you actually get more models per faction, two factions, plus a copy of the rules and some dice. And that thing initially retailed for what, $75? You're right, but with AoBR you still then need to buy the rest of your models to make a game legal army. What you get in that box is less than half what you need for the realistic minimum decent game. AoBR is designed as a loss leader, and it only lets you play AoBR until you invest more. At least with these deals you buy the rule book and the deal you want, and then you're able to play a proper game. In theory anyway. I'm the going to buy the rulebook from Hawk Wargames, then get the models from somewhere like https://www.darksphere.co.uk at (I'm guessing) a discount. No Pun Intended posted:It looks pretty awesome! The models look ripe for magnetising so I can clip in and zoom my units around the battlefield. That being said, they could go the $$ route and make you buy full/empty dropships and the cargo to represent a unit. The designer has said in interviews that while he designed it so that every unit can physically be carried by it's dropship (either permanently or with magnets), it is purely a modelling choice and irrelevant to game mechanics. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 00:18
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Are there any hints to hte game rules at all? I saw they sell card packs, for more "game flavor". Which reminds me exactly of firestorm armada/etc, which are imo lovely games. This guy used to sculpt for spartan, I hope his rules are nothing like theirs. Any idea what an "average" game size is?
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Jun 11, 2012 00:25
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I forgot to say, there will be a developer Q&A going on on Facebook tomorrow. So hopefully we will get more information about specific mechanics then. Also there are some general bits of info about gameplay in the FAQ. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 00:27
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:You're right, but with AoBR you still then need to buy the rest of your models to make a game legal army. What you get in that box is less than half what you need for the realistic minimum decent game. AoBR is designed as a loss leader, and it only lets you play AoBR until you invest more. Well, a rulebook and two of the deals you want. That's about $230 worth of kit, just for the minimum game.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:28
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:
That seems... Sensible. The inner grog is disappointed by their use of logic and reason.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:33
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Fix posted:Well, a rulebook and two of the deals you want. That's about $230 worth of kit, just for the minimum game. Only if you're buying two armies, I would assume that most people would only buy one to start with.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:39
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Only if you're buying two armies, I would assume that most people would only buy one to start with. Yeah, but you need two to play, whether it's you and a buddy splitting the cost or what, compare it to the starter kits for other games. Warmahordes or 40k or Fantasy or Heavy Gear or whatever, this is a lot more.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:49
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I thought these were pretty boss 6mm models. Now I see they are 10mm. Meh. Unless the rules are amazing or my FLGS starts stocking them AND running events for it, I'm not gonna bother. And judging from the price point I think I'll be the better for it. I can get two wm/h starters for the price of one of theirs. Or Island of Blood. Both options come with a bit more bang for my buck IMO. Or if you want a scale comparison, I can get the Flames of War starter box with the 5 tanks or so AND a company box of infantry. Also I really think the bases for the infantry stands don't work at all for that scale, and everything else I've said is just kinda made up on the spot to justify my dislike of the game based on the bases. Yep, I'm judging a game based on its basing.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:57
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I wasn't too excited about this, but the Scourge flying through the overgrown model train set was all it took. Do we really not know how much you get for $100? That seems like a pretty big PR shortcoming. e: The site is up. And man, $100 doesn't get you don't get a lot. e2: For reference, $100 buys you SIX HUNDRED of these guys:  (Old Glory 10mm Romans) I just can't see this taking off in most places. moths fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 02:33
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moths posted:I wasn't too excited about this, but the Scourge flying through the overgrown model train set was all it took. That 100 dollars seems to get you quite a bit in terms of a 10mm game that relies on vehicles and aircraft, I think. Also you can knock 10 percent off the top by ordering from Warstore. Also thanks to Rapey Joe Stalin for making this thread because I'm really psyched about this game. A buddy of mine is pretty much guaranteed to pick up some PHR stuff so I'll do a trip report when that happens. S.J. fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 02:47
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I'm buying the Shaltari starter box and PHR or UCM dependong on what my FLGS doesn't pick. I'm kind of pissed that I will be away from a month right after these thinks come out. Fake edit: Am I the only one who thinks half the Scourge models are underwhelming? Real edit: PaintVagrant posted:Are there any hints to hte game rules at all? I saw they sell card packs, for more "game flavor". Which reminds me exactly of firestorm armada/etc, which are imo lovely games. This guy used to sculpt for spartan, I hope his rules are nothing like theirs. I was wrong. Yea, their drop ships and MPT are kind of stupid. I'm not a big fan of UCM MBTs either but their other tanks make up for it and they are the only tracked tank army. Nothing bad can be said about the Shaltari though. loving 30ft war strides. Awesome. And the PHR easily has the best drop-ships, flyers, and APCs. vvvvvv Kwosge fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 02:55
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Kwosge posted:I'm buying the Shaltari starter box and PHR or UCM dependong on what my FLGS doesn't pick. I'm kind of pissed that I will be away from a month right after these thinks come out. The scourge vehicle dropships are goofy as gently caress, and I'm iffy on their MBTs. But the rest of their poo poo looks awesome, especially the swarm vehicle things.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:56
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S.J. posted:That 100 dollars seems to get you quite a bit in terms of a 10mm game that relies on vehicles and aircraft, I think. I realize you're paying for the resin, but you could buy 20 boxes of MonPoc at 5 And Below and cover a table with pre-paints that will look better than what the schlubs at my LGS could do with these. I mean, they're pretty models and all but this is absolutely not a bargain.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:06
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moths posted:I realize you're paying for the resin, but you could buy 20 boxes of MonPoc at 5 And Below and cover a table with pre-paints that will look better than what the schlubs at my LGS could do with these. No one's saying it's a bargain. None of the games we play are bargains. People are freaking out about the word 'starter' but realistically these seem no different than the GW battleforces, except that most of the GW battleforces are poo poo for actual list building, and cost slightly more. I'll hold my bad attitude for when I get the rules. We still don't know whether or not he's going to be bringing out a 2 player starter or not. Also Mon Poc is cheap because everyone is trying to get rid of that poo poo before it goes to non collectible.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:19
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Getting a really strong Ground Control vibe from this, which is cool.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:25
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Right, but even still those starters are poorly priced relative to every other game in this hobby. $100 is a huge buy-in for some matchbox spaceships, no matter how pretty they are or how good the rules. (I'm probably just trying to talk myself out of impulse-buying the Scourge set.)
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Jun 11, 2012 03:54
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moths posted:Right, but even still those starters are poorly priced relative to every other game in this hobby. $100 is a huge buy-in for some matchbox spaceships, no matter how pretty they are or how good the rules. Uhm, no they're not. The 40k and Fantasy equivalents are the battleforces, not AoBR. And the battleforces cost more and are generally not good. And besides, even if we compare it to AoBR, you're still talking about 50 bucks per person, and then another 35-40 bucks per person just to get the actual rules for your faction (assuming you share the rulebook) before you buy even a single model more. And that's assuming one player actually wants to play Marines and one wants to play Orks.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:57
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quote:Deck of 40 full colour PHR command cards. These add flavour to games, and are central to the game's command mechanics. Games may be played without commanders, but these provide many additional tactical options and surprises! Not stat cards, or if there are stat cards these command cards are seperate. It also refers to needing 20 d6. Still sounds like spartan games'
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Jun 11, 2012 03:58
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S.J. posted:Uhm, no they're not. The 40k and Fantasy equivalents are the battleforces, not AoBR. And the battleforces cost more and are generally not good. Are they putting out a two-force starter that comes with a rulebook? The point of the starter is that it's what you buy when you start playing. As far as I can tell, there's no dollars-for-toys ratio worse than this at an intro level.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:14
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moths posted:Are they putting out a two-force starter that comes with a rulebook? The same is true for 40k and Fantasy if you want to play anything except the stuff they put in the starter. We don't know if they're doing a regular 2 player start or not at this point. And again, you're not really paying 50 bux a pop for AoBR, it's more like 85-95 bux a pop. Realistically, Privateer Press is the exception as far as introductory boxes go, and maybe Corvus Belli. But even then there are plenty of lovely intro boxes to be found.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:16
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S.J. posted:Realistically, Privateer Press is the exception as far as introductory boxes go, and maybe Corvus Belli. But even then there are plenty of lovely intro boxes to be found.  This might be one of them. The simple fact is that we don't know.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:31
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Fix posted:
I'm aware of that, and if that's the case, then we can start bitching about it. But we also don't know whether or not the intro case is gonna be like, half of a decent sized army, either, so it's kind of silly to complain about prices. Especially considering that most people who buy into mini games throw a hundred bux out the door like it aint no thing.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:32
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It just seems like they're setting themselves up for an incredible uphill climb with the apparent lack of a intro-priced starter. Even Flames of War has a $50 intro box, and Battlefront prices are typically in GW's neighborhood. I think the difference here is that I'm talking about the comparative value of the physical models in the box, and you're valuing those boxes in game terms.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:39
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moths posted:It just seems like they're setting themselves up for an incredible uphill climb with the apparent lack of a intro-priced starter. Even Flames of War has a $50 intro box, and Battlefront prices are typically in GW's neighborhood. The physical value of the models at this point is almost entirely going to be based in game terms. We just don't know what those terms are yet. If you wanna do a material comparison to the FoW box then FoW's starter looks pretty lovely even at half the price.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:55
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But that same hundred bucks gets you more than two square feet of GW plastic, dice, ruler-sticks, templates, rulebook, and a quickstart guide. And even the Flames box has a full rules and five resin tanks for only $20 over what Dropzone Commander's book (a more appropriate comparative product) goes for. Hawk's starting with two big questions against it: - Do I want to bet $130 that someone I can stand will play this? - Would I prefer to put that $130 into a game and circle I already know that I like? Even in this ridiculously peer-driven hobby of spendthrifts, $130 is an unprecedented price-of-admission for one. Especially when you only get a handful of models that really aren't much more exceptional that what you could get for one fifth the price.
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Jun 11, 2012 05:20
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moths posted:But that same hundred bucks gets you more than two square feet of GW plastic, dice, ruler-sticks, templates, rulebook, and a quickstart guide. And even the Flames box has a full rules and five resin tanks for only $20 over what Dropzone Commander's book (a more appropriate comparative product) goes for. Plastic is cheaper, the ruler sticks are literally trash, the quickstart guide is mildly helpful at best, the dice aren't even remotely enough to play with. The Flames of War box doesn't have anything but bad plastic versions of their resin tanks, and while it has the full rules, it doesn't have the other third of what you pay for when you buy the rulebook. Hawks starter costs 105, not 130. The actual price of admission to 40k is way, way more than the AoBR box set. We still don't know anything about whether or not the deals will actually be worth it in game terms, which is ultimately the most important thing if the game is good. You sound like you are desperately trying to come up with reasons not to buy into this game.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:31
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S.J. posted:Hawks starter costs 105, not 130. The other $25 is the rulebook.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:33
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Fix posted:The other $25 is the rulebook. Duh, I should've thought of that. Still. At this point I think the prices only sound high because we don't know anything about the game yet. Considering the guy was saying they played a lot on 4x4 tables I'm not worried about having to buy hundreds of tanks, and they outright said you don't need a lot of infantry to play. The price structure for the vehicles is really, really similar to FoW and tank companies are relatively cheap in that game (not including extraneous bullshit like artillery that costs way, way too much for the models).
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Jun 11, 2012 06:35
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The glory of this game being 10mm is you could potentially buy them and have a train set as an excuse to get terrain.
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Jun 11, 2012 07:41
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So reaffirming my stance that PHR looks brilliant, UCM + Scourge look boring in comparison. I won't argue how expensive the price is, I'm hanging out to see just how much of an army the starters actually are, they say it's for the smallest size of the game, but what does that meeeeean. Although It's a bummer the PHR set doesn't include the awesome looking Taranis.  Apropros of nothing, why no option for a PDF rule book?
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Jun 11, 2012 07:44
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