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Whats the proper way to make use of matchlocks? I've recently got the Otomo dlc and have started using matchlocks for the first time in the Sengoku campaign and I can't seem to use them properly. They just seem to be generally inferior to bows, especially bow samurai/monks. They cant fire at the enemy without line of sight, they have shorter range and fire more slowly. The morale damage is nice, but even with rank fire, they cant seem to get more than one volley off before I have to retreat them. Bows can basically keep firing at stuff for the entire duration of the battle, matchlocks seem to only be useful occasionally. I'm not trying to argue that matchlocks are crap or anything, I just honestly want to know how I should be using them properly. The tactics I've learned from Napoleon or FOTS don't seem to apply to the traditional matchlock units.
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Dec 12, 2012 14:46
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Man, I gave ToB a good chance, but I think I'll be getting a refund. Apart from the other criticism already levied, I just can't seem to get excited about hairy guys with ponytails and mustaches wearing potato sacks poking spears at other hairy peasants who may or may not have mail. I guess I've been spoiled by Warhammer, but I want to see shiny plate armor and other interesting poo poo like that.
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May 5, 2018 22:36
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BBJoey posted:weird that the game set in early middle ages britain doesn’t have dragons or knights in plate armour Almost like they should have set it during the late middle ages.
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May 5, 2018 23:28
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yall just aren’t the target audience Considering I've literally bought every single Total War title and DLC since Shogun 1, it's an interesting marketing decision.
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May 5, 2018 23:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:They haven’t made a game tailored to their core audience since atilla. I've been loving the hell out of Warhammer 1 & 2. I just don't like using naked peasants.
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May 5, 2018 23:47
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CharlestheHammer posted:I’m not talking about quality just they haven’t been shy about going away from their core audience I just wish 75% of the unit roster didn't consist of unwashed farmers wielding various kitchen implements. At least in Medieval 2 you started with that kind of stuff and quickly upgraded to more professional armies. In ToB you go from "some guys have mail", to "more guys have mail".
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May 5, 2018 23:53
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Koramei posted:but whining about the setting is pretty dumb when it's been entirely clear what it would be since the thing was first announced This is where the "historical" part should take a backseat to making the game interesting. In Shogun they included stuff katana samurai or warrior monks, even though historically they mostly used spears, because spears are boring and dudes running around with katanas is rad as hell. This game would have been much more interesting if they had taken a hollywood approach to the appearance of the factions.
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May 6, 2018 00:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:Because I’m gonna guess there was not much difference between them. At least in Napoleon they made the decision to go for the iconic Napoleonic uniforms even though the game was technically set several years too early for them, just to make the game look cool. In shogun, there isn't a naked peasant in sight, even the basic ashigaru are wearing uniforms and are stylized to look cool.
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May 6, 2018 00:25
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jokes posted:Other than blind loyalty to TW games or a historical fixation on the era, is there really any reason to play ToB over Warhammer? Or Shogun/Attila? I suppose if you want a game where the factions are more balanced. Each faction can more or less do what the others can with some subtle variation. It's a little more like Shogun 2 in that respect, so you don't have radically different play-styles or tactics. It also has a lot more in terms of events and faction management than many of the recent games. Kinda like a mix between Attila's political system and random events from Warhammer 2.
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May 6, 2018 04:28
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Vargs posted:Didn't Charlemagne have vikings anyways? It did. As did base Attilla. And frankly, in ToB they are pretty much the same as they were in the previous games.
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May 6, 2018 04:44
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StashAugustine posted:s2 each unit can be explained in a clearly defined role in one sentence, and the faction variation is campaign bonus (usually) + one type of unit that's Just Better + a unique unit with its own unique niche as DLC. They actually do this in ToB. Each unit has a little designation under the name to let you know more or less it's role. For example, you have Seax warriors (Levy swords) and Theigns (Retinue Swords) or Royal Theigns (Elite Swords). So it's pretty easy to know what a unit does at a glance even if it's a different faction.
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May 6, 2018 04:53
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Koramei posted:I disagree with this, at least based on what I saw from prerelease, they made some pretty sweeping changes to the campaign side of things. They've definitely tried to push things forward and make changes, but unfortunately the best of what they learned while doing Warhammer 1+2 isn't applicable to a title like this. My biggest complaint is that the units, and by extension the battles, are boring. The campaign seems pretty alright but if I'm going to auto-resolve, I'd rather be playing crusader kings.
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May 6, 2018 05:37
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The units get better towards the end of the campaign. They start to feel medievaly, especially with the teardrop shields and mail coifs under Norman helms. You do notice the progression from dark age units to early medieval as you tech up, particularly as the anglo saxons. I can only hope we get some dlc that pushes the timeline forward. Maybe to the English wars of conquest against the Scots and Welsh, or perhaps to the war of the roses.
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May 14, 2018 15:55
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Hunt11 posted:Also that gave me the time to see some of the death animations and watching a man full of arrows writhe in the dirt desperate to get away from it all is kind of depressing. Imagine when blood gets added in. I wonder if they will charge for it again, or maybe gift it to people who have it for Attila or something.
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May 20, 2018 05:03
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Koramei posted:Lol They did that for Warhammer 2.
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May 20, 2018 07:49
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Unzip and Attack posted:Has anyone played the Ancient Empires mod for Atilla? I think it came out this last week. Wondering if I should bother with a reinstall of Attila just for it. It's made by people who have particular ideas about how "realistic" ancient combat should be. So stuff like fatigue completely cripples units, and units with 300 men will break after losing 50. Stuff like that.
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May 20, 2018 19:05
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Fuligin posted:I'm getting back into Shogun 2, it's so drat good. Are there any fun mods for it, or quality of life additions? I would say get a mod that makes realm divide more sane so that your ally who has suck by you through thick and thin for the last 100 years doesn't suddenly have an aneurysm and turn on you. There are different approaches to fixing it, I prefer the mod that gradually scales the penalty instead of applying it instantly.
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May 21, 2018 21:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I am kinda disappointed in, well, not the siege maps themselves, but that we got these huge, sometimea Minas Tirith epic maps that almost always end up being a tiny garrison vs a 12 stack. They would be amazing 3v3 or 4v4 MP though. The funny thing is, as far as single player goes, the Warhammer approach to sieges makes much more sense and is much easier for the AI to handle. Statistically I think CA said that more sieges were played in Warhammer than ever before as many of them were auto-resolved in the historical titles. The same is true here, because who wants to spend 20 minutes climbing the walls to fight 2 units and marching to the city center to face one more? At least if the siege were confined to one part of the walls, the AI could concentrate its forces and try to put up an actual fight.
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May 27, 2018 19:02
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shalcar posted:The AI in ToB does just fine in the beta patch now that they swapped the counts so that the main building and garrison buildings give 8/9/10/11/12 and 5/5/6/6/7 units with the Garrison units being all Retinue and Elite. Even the most basic town now has 10 units with their governor to defend, which actually lets the AI put up an interesting defence. The towns were just way, way too big for 5 units. Honestly, the town maps are a bit too big, but I can see why they wouldn't make additional maps for the town sizes like they did in earlier Total Wars in the Saga ToB. That sounds a lot better. When I played my Wessex campaign, unless I caught an army inside a town, I was generally facing 1 levy spear, 1 retinue sword, 1 levy archer, 1 levy jav on the walls, and another levy spear in the city center.
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May 28, 2018 23:16
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I don't know if this is indicative of anything, but Thrones is generally in last place for number of players on Steam apart from Napoleon. I wonder if this will have any impact on future Saga titles.
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Jun 3, 2018 19:07
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shalcar posted:I'm enjoying no agents a hell of a lot more than I thought I would actually, I'm now no longer sure agents add more enjoyment than they subtract. I always use a "no agents" mod in every other TW (I hate when a champion can kill half of an army alone) Hopefully CA just drops agents from all future titles and figures out some other way to represent them. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 06:16
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I used a mod that had new units start at 70% and found that to be pretty tolerable. Maybe it would be more balanced at 60% to prevent people from gaming the system to have insta-garrisons against attacks. But, since I wasn't abusing it, it seemed to work out nicely.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:01
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That's because you misread and ended up putting yourself on a cross. How very Christian of you.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:45
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That's annoying considering that was an option in Warhammer. I hate having to kill vassals, but I want their land! There's a mod that lets you confederate in the workshop. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1374750635
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Jun 4, 2018 21:48
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Creative Assembly posted:Those who have been craving a little more gore as they raid, pillage and, conquer will be pleased to hear that a Blood Pack is currently in development. It will be similar in scope to the Blood & Burning pack for Attila, sharing some of its effects, along with new content created just for Thrones. Aww poo poo, let me remind you how I totally called this a few pages back and got loled at.
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Jun 5, 2018 19:22
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GuardianOfAsgaard posted:3K now delayed to Spring 2019 Wanna bet that the game won't come out until late September, 2019?
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Jun 6, 2018 21:47
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They have a classic historic mode, and a romantic mode. Where's the mode that has the  guitar solos?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS55Laq5n3U
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Jun 7, 2018 00:01
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Koramei posted:It’s funny to hear two posts asking for this since again matched combat animations like this were something people incessantly bitched about in Shogun 2 and Rome 2. Matched combat animations are terrible and anyone who asks for them is a terrible person. On a more serious note, it's just not feasible to make it look good beyond the first 20 seconds as you will quickly see 300 guys repeating the exact same animations over and over again. It also led to buggy unit behavior as you might order a unit to move, but one of its guys is stuck in an animation and bugs out. Instead of spending time making the 1000+ unique animations needed to have a reasonable amount of repetition, the warhammer approach works much better. Note this is only for units, matched animations are fine for heroes.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:40
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Kenzie posted:Yeah and the matched animations meant that you couldn't have 2v1 or 3v1 fights right? Every fight turned into a bunch of locked one-on-one duels while the animations played out, while it should be about teamwork and formation fighting instead. In a real fight, if you are standing in the middle of a big formation, the biggest threat is not the enemy right in front of you. You can easily parry or block his attacks, since he's the one you're paying attention to the most. The biggest threat is the enemy two ranks down the line, since he can look over and see you distracted by the guy in front of you, and then he can reach over with his long spear and jab you in the face while you're not looking. Yeah, this was most apparent in Shogun 2 siege battles, you could have 500 guys surrounding 1 guy on the final point and they would patiently wait for their turn to 1v1 him. Since it was the final point, he would fight to the death and could sometimes kill dozens of guys due to rng. Rome 2 fixed this a bit by having both matched animations and generic attacks. It no longer happens in Warhammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCuQjAuu3ZY I quickly tried to find a video example, but that's the best I could come up with. Edit: I found a better example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTHu1ECocOs Azran posted:Should I disable Agents in Rome 2? Or at least limit them to 1 per faction? I just started a Lusitani campaign and my main stack has been getting decimated by a 5 star spy which keeps constantly poisoning my troops whenever I try to move outside my province and it's getting annoying. My own spy had like an 8% chance of doing anything to him lol I last got to endgame back in like 2016, but I know there's been a number of balance patches since then - does it ever get less silly? I just disable agents for the ai and never touch them. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 04:08
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Did they have matched animations in the older games? I've always wondered how they did large monsters in the Lord of the Rings mod for Medieval 2, despite that game not having HP pools so one good roll means dead dragon. If every fight was 1v1 then those large monsters would last a lot longer than if everyone was free to gang up on them and spam attacks at once. No, the older games were just guys swinging at the closest model. You could have 1 v as many as could reach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qiS4dg4OLY You can see at the 12 minute mark.
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Jun 8, 2018 04:51
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Randarkman posted:You still had hitpoints in the older games. It's just that almost all had 1 hitpoint. With a very few exceptions like elephants having multiple. All the conquistador units also had 2 or more hitpoints in the Americas campaign for M2 as well IIRC They also had a similar "bonus vs large" mechanic, so Elephants would die quickly to javelins, but not as quickly to normal infantry.
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Jun 8, 2018 19:03
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Holy gently caress, the axe troops looked vicious in combat, the animations seem really good. Edit: "Here is a unit of cavalry. We are going to charge them into this unit of spears." https://tubedubber.com/?q=jQX6qBiCu9E:MS55Laq5n3U:0:100:0:0:1 I hope to god we can get a soundtrack mod. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 21:09
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Randarkman posted:Anyway... enough about that, it was probably just a trailer and a lovely spear unit attacked by an elite cav unit. They will most likely keep the old RTS rock-paper-scissors weapon strengths. Sadly I say, I don't mind it being rock-paper-scissors, but I'd really love to see spears move out of the ghetto of just being defensive troops you use to fend off cavalry, when properly they should be the most versatile infantry you have, able to fulfill many different roles. In Shogun 2 campaign, Yari Samurai were probably the best all-round melee troops to bring as they were armored, could withstand cavalry charges and would do decently well against sword infantry, giving you enough time to flank anything you couldn't outright defeat. Katana Samurai absolutely melted to cav charges.
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Jun 8, 2018 21:57
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Krazyface posted:I reckon yari samurai are terrible, they lose a one-on-one fight with ashigaru who are in spear-wall formation. Most units lose one-on-one against a spear-wall in Shogun 2.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:17
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StashAugustine posted:the real problem with yari samurai is that naginatas did all the same things but better except being slower and a little more expensive They actually perform worse against katana samurai than yaris. Do some 1v1 tests and you will be surprised.
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Jun 9, 2018 05:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zACljAqjwm8 Just in case someone remains stubborn about matched animations.
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Jun 9, 2018 09:39
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Josef bugman posted:I wonder if they will put in a dynasty warriors music pack. I'm sure mods will handle that if they don't.
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Jun 10, 2018 00:29
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*laughs in cao cao* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYpJ37ulsnk
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Jun 10, 2018 03:36
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With the new game on the way, I've been inspired to do some reading on the period and holy gently caress is Chinese history grim. It seems to be full of tragedies on a scale that dwarfs what tended to happen in Europe at the time. Yes, it does say eaten. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suiyang
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Nov 12, 2018 21:41
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Reiterpallasch posted:if the rotk total war was historically accurate it would be terrible. offensive campaigns would be Getting Lost In River Gorges Simulator 2019. there would be three unit types, total. your top tier military research weapon would be malaria. My pro-strat would be to research the tech that lets you feed your civilians to your soldiers in order to avoid attrition during sieges.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:32
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