Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

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Shroud: May 11, 2009

If anyone has read Wrath of Iron, there's a funny/ironic exchange between a magos and the lord general. The magos explains that the Iron Hands are afraid of their own flesh, and that they're addicted to augmentation.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 01:09

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:26

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Cream_Filling posted:

In my opinion, no. It is a book with literally no ending at all. Nothing happens or is resolved. I feel like someone at the printers hosed up and only send me 2/3 of a book.

Yeah, I wonder if it's supposed to be a duology or trilogy. So many threads were left dangling, especially the forged Rogue Trader writ.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2012 05:01

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Affi posted:

So are there are Space Marines around that were alive during the Horus Heresy (and before?) Do they still buy the whole "The Emperor is a God!" spiel or do they remember how things were?

There's one moment in The Emperor's Gift where a Grey Knight calls the Red Hunters "zealots" after he refers to the God-Emperor.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 15:33

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Well, Guilliman himself did say that it would be stupid to follow it blindly. He remarked that the commander in the filed should be free to improvise (there is an assumption of complete knowledge of the battlefield, I'm assuming). I think this was thrown in as a nod to Ventris and the arguments people have been making here.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2012 21:51

Shroud: May 11, 2009

As it turns out, the Black Rage has existed from the very beginning. Sanguinus tells Horus that he hasn't told anyone because he doesn't want to be wiped out like the other 2 primarchs.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 00:45

Shroud: May 11, 2009

I still haven't figured how the Wolves can still use Rune Priests while everyone else had to disband their Librariums. I know they justified it by saying they drew their powers from Fenris, but I can't imagine that excuse being given a free pass by Russ, much less the Emperor.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2012 21:37

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Fried Chicken posted:

can someone link like a youtube video or something of a "wet leopard snarl"? I have no idea what he meant there

Quick search yielded this. Not sure about the wetness, though.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 04:59

Shroud: May 11, 2009

The Old Man and the Sea of Souls

# ¿ Oct 2, 2012 19:44

Shroud: May 11, 2009

One Flew Over the Sniper's Nest

# ¿ Oct 2, 2012 22:33

Shroud: May 11, 2009

ptolpa posted:

I think you have hit Dan Abnett bang on, and it would be hard to disagree, he is the best and the most consistent writer in BL.

I save particular vitriol for Graham McNeill. 'Storm of Iron' did my head in.
Thinking back on it, I had three main issues:
1. It felt like McNeil had studied Napoleonic-era fortresses at community college and was going to tell you every little thing about it. Pages of the book were dedicated to the state of the fortifications, and how they get ground down in the assault. It felt to me like I was reading a textbook at times, it was that detailed.
2. The book starts killing people early on (page 9) and the death toll is constant until 5 pages from the end. This book embodies the 'There Is Only War' to its binding. And after a while, you get a bit sick of it.
3. Characterisation. The good guys are not fleshed out very well, probably for the best given the level of casualties. But still, a story should develop some characters. And rightly or wrongly (rightly!) we usually root for the good guys.

On the 'good points' side, it was interesting to get some insight into the "lives" of Chaos Space Marines. We even get an idea on how they replenish their numbers.

You're fricking insane. That was one of the best 40k books!

Maybe it's just because it was the first one I read. I remember being in awe of how the bad guys with daemons were allowed to win. It blew my mind, after I had gotten disgusted with Forgotten Reams, and how everyone always breaks down, cries, and then launches into a multi-page exposition any time something violent happened.

As for the detail, I really enjoyed it. He's talking about Iron Warriors, the expert siege-breakers. Hardly seemed out of place. Also, did you really just complain that a 40k book killed people throughout? :psyboom:

# ¿ Oct 9, 2012 18:02

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Schneider Heim posted:

Read The Crimson Fist. Is Dorn being massively disappointed at Sigismund a retcon, or has it been established before?

I wonder if that's a setup for the Black Templars' eternal crusade for penance, since Sigismund is their chapter master.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2012 17:59

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Be interesting to see if Zael/Hyperion makes a comeback. Especially if it's needed to put down Eisenhorn and Cherubael.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2012 15:46

Shroud: May 11, 2009

That's the one of the things that bothered me. Here I am, a Space Marine, on track to defeat and kill a traitor primarch and his stupid fleet. Dorn can piss off. I don't care how mad he gets, I can tell him "Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of bits of Perturabo stuck in my helmet. Also, you can tell the Emperor I took care of the traitor legion that would be the most effective in breaching the Imperial Palace. You're welcome, though."

The other thing has been covered before, but how in the everliving hell do the primarchs not know about the Warp and faith? Dorn gets all pissy about Sigismund staying back, which is fine regarding discipline in times of treachery, but how does he not have the slightest inclination to believe strange things can happen? Especially after he knows Horus has rebelled out of the blue, and primarchs are suddenly trying to kill each other. Then again, Dorn is the same lump that punches Garro after meeting, complimenting, and advising him previously.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2012 18:09

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Cream_Filling posted:

Withdrawing the fleet was Pollux's decision, not Dorn's. All Dorn did was tell Pollux to get his rear end back home ASAP. In wartime, it's always up to commanders to interpret the orders given by their superiors. It wasn't a two-way message, and Dorn had no idea of the specifics of the situation. While it's implied that Sigismund would have been defeated by the Iron Warriors fleet because of his impetuousness, it can also be said that if it were Sigismund there in command, he probably would have stayed to finish the fight instead of withdrawing immediately as Pollux does, since it's clear that Sigismund is more independent and less blindly obedient than the junior commander.

Additionally, the reason Sigismund gives is basically that he didn't go as he was commanded to because he thinks he'll die out there as a historical footnote and selfishly wants to be by Dorn's side to the glorious end. Even though, in hindsight, his presence and ignominious death in deep space may actually have saved much more of the fleet. And he makes this decision based on basically magic. Keep in mind that the warp is not at all trustworthy, and it's the home of the gods of chaos. The Primarchs do seem to know that the warp is home to alien and hostile intelligences. Which makes basically any suggestions from the warp untrustworthy at best. Add in the whole "imperial truth" they've been sworn to fight for and it's understandable why Dorn is angry. Not only was his son one of the first to abandon the Imperial Truth, but then the decision he makes based on the info he gains is for basically vain and selfish reasons instead of putting the good of the Imperium first.

That's the whole thing about that story - at first, you're led to think that Pollux going instead of Sigismund will save the fleet, but then, as the story progresses, you realize that it may be the other way around, and Sigismund's presence might have been what was needed to save the fleet and/or successfully strike a massive victory against the rebels by crippling or killing a traitor primarch. But this outcome is derailed because of Sigismund's vanity, because although he doesn't fear death, he can't stand the thought of being blown up in a fleet action in the middle of nowhere at the start of the war instead of dying gloriously by his primarch's side at the end of the war, even though, on the long run, that fleet action might end up being strategically much more important.

Dorn knew that he would need his most brilliant, experienced, and independent commanders out there handling things because they could easily be cut off from communications and left to make decisions for themselves without his guidance. He can handle poo poo on earth, and he doesn't need great commanders at home since he's there to coordinate everything. Sigismund refusing to go out even though he could do more for the war effort out there instead of by Dorn's side stuck on earth is really selfish.

Thanks for the response. He seems a lot more reasonable the way you tell it.

I thought that the way Sigismund told Dorn about Keeler should have at least engendered *some* curiosity or investigation, though. I mean, if your favored "son" told you something like that after being solid like a rock for years and years, wouldn't someone reasonable at least wonder if there might be something going on? It's certainly Dorn's prerogative to chalk it up to selfishness/glory-hunting, but he's supposed to be super intelligent, as well as one of the more reasonable primarchs. He reaction seemed completely instinctual and off the cuff, if that makes sense. There wasn't even a moment of contemplation, or "that almost makes sense". Theoretically, he would be aware of high-level psyker abilities, which he could have assumed Keeler was using. He could have at least investigated, or had someone do it for him, while placing Sigismund on probation pending the outcome.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2012 22:30

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Mowglis Haircut posted:

Ollanus Pious, the farmer guy, is the same type of immortal psyker that John Grammaticus is in Legion, as well as belonging to The Cabal. In fact, he even talks about knowing John Grammaticus.

It's a bit more than that, they've known each other for a long, long time. The book ends with Grammaticus sending him on a mission which he reluctantly accepts.

Also, Pius is the name of the terminator/marine/guardsman/whatever whose death galvanizes the Emperor into obliterating Horus.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2012 16:27

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Emnity posted:

About halfway through Pariah now and whilst I am enjoying all the usual Dan Abnett thrills I'm still itching for some reference to the whole Ravenor/Eisenhorn thing. I'm also struggling to picture the place in the timeline it is set in as I don't remember any reference to Queen Mab etc in the earlier trilogies.

I love the Curst and Warblind ideas though.

It is set well before the Tyranids show up, if that helps (shot in the dark M38?). Gaunt refers to Ravenor's book "Spheres of Longing" at least once.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2012 18:56

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Mr.48 posted:

Thats what bothers me, they always "almost" die. One of them stabs an enemy space marine with his gladius and that space marine dies. But if one of them is stabbed, they just grit their teeth and keep going. Its illogical and annoying. Combined with how irritating Talos is as a leader, I dont even want them to win anymore, and yet they still do for no reason, time and time again.

Keep going.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2012 02:18

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Part of what I like about the series is that, yes they do win unlikely battles. However, look at how their existence is slowly degrading.

The squad slowly dies off, and not solely because of external enemies. They support each other, even through their hatred of themselves, what they've turned into, and the desperation of their situation. They know the other traitor legions don't care about them, and they know their own primarch hated them. They follow the orders of a mutant, who they despise. In turn, their commander loathes them as well. Still, they defend each other and stand as a unit, because all they have is each other. Their strength and resources are slowly ebbing away, to the point that serfs are performing important roles that Astartes would typically carry out (for example, flying Thunderhawks). They see their own decline, they can't trust or join with other members of the same legion, even.

It's not Shakespeare or Sophocles, but it's pretty drat tragic. It's a huge change of pace from the usual Chaos = pure evil/blood/mayhem cliches.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2012 03:28

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Mechafunkzilla posted:

I could swear I remember reading about an orphan-soul-powered machine in some kind of BL thing.

You almost have that in Sacrifice. There's a few short stories where you learn that the Grey Knights' armor is sanctified through the sacrifice of psykers and their ammo is also sanctified in the blood of "good" people who are executed.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2012 17:47

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Impaired Casing posted:

I finished Betrayer last night, and enjoyed it. I loved the dynamic between Angron and his legion, and how they make it a point of how different it is compared to any other legion. Also, is it just me, or is ADB the only guy who can write Lorgar as something other than a pretentious rear end? He even does great work with Angron. He is more than just BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, and gives a great speech on why he turned traitor, and why he doesn't consider it a betrayal. Before this book, I had always assumed he was just insane. ADB turned one of the weakest primarchs, on a character level at least, into one of the strongest.

There's also a few cameos of Magnus in it, who comes off as a sort of useless Obi Wan, giving advice that Lorgar already knows, and ignores anyway. But he's fun nonetheless.

But it focuses mainly on the Word Bearers and the World Eaters, and even though they are fighting Ultramarines, very little of the book is devoted to them. So while it does, after awhile, feel like they could be fighting any old enemy, it is nice to get book straight from the traitor's point of view. Even this late into the Heresy, we still get loyalist characters going on and on about how unthinkable it is to fight space marines, and how their hearts ache over it. I understand that the characters in the various books may be going through that the first time, but I, as a reader, get a little tired of it in book after book. ADB makes mention of it, but its used nothing more than a way to describe the setting, and works wonderfully, and is less than a sentence long.

Yeah, Argel Tal was very guilt ridden. The part where Kharn mentions the bit about the burial shroud just showed the decay of that character. For a man with a demon inside of him, he sure was hollow.

I actually felt sympathy for the World Eaters - not something I would ever have expected. The use of the Librarians and the Dreadnought was a neat idea to show the deterioration of the legion, and they also contributed some nice Khornate foreshadowing, through their effect on Angron and the marines with Nails (went crazy whenever they came nearby) as well as their inability to survive the use of their powers when they had the Nails implanted.

The story of the Night of Wolves took me a while to figure out, though. I did have a mental image of Lorgar going :ughh:

when Angron couldn't understand the lesson Russ was trying to teach.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2012 20:46

Shroud: May 11, 2009

I did finish it. You know what the first thing I thought of was?

gently caress Erebus.

Also, I wonder if BL will ever explain what the hell the Emperor was thinking at De'shea. Angron spelled out what people have wondered for a long time.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2012 23:07

Shroud: May 11, 2009

VanSandman posted:

A lot of the Primarchs seemed to be doomed from the start. Curze and Angron especially. I wonder if we'll ever get an apocryphal story or two about the missing two legions? I wouldn't mind seeing just what made the Emperor declare two of his own sons Primarcha non grata.

Worst part is that 9 of them decided to up and go to war against him, but their names weren't struck from the record. So what the hell did the first two guys do?

# ¿ Dec 24, 2012 05:25

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Jenkins made the fatal mistake of telling the Emperor he wouldn't join the crusade until his pension was fully vested.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2012 03:46

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Affi posted:

How many Imperial Guardsmen would it take to kill Angron?

All of them.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2013 00:26

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Socal Sapper posted:

Those are pretty much my thoughts on the mutations. No inner dialogue among the chapter to say "Hey guys, I grew a claw on my penis. Is this ok?".

Sarpedon: It's the Imperium's fault. They put your penis up to this. Just think wholesome thoughts and you'll be fine.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2013 18:30

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Saw this posted at Warseer (spoiled for official chronology of Primarch discovery) -

quote:

Straight from Laurie Goulding, the editor over at Black Library:

Horus
Leman Russ
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Alpharius

Please bear in mind that there is a difference between a primarch being found, and a primarch taking command of their Legion.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2013 18:47

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Nephilm posted:

Assuming that's true, I never expected Russ to be on that place in the list, but it makes sense.

In the thread at Warseer, someone made an observation that it would tie in really well with the theory that the Wolves eliminated at least one of the missing legions.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2013 23:17

Shroud: May 11, 2009

If any goons are interested, I'm giving away what's left of my W40k books tomorrow. I have both Execution Hour and Shadow Point, which as far as I know have been out of production for a long while. If anyone wants them, I'd be willing to ship them free of charge to you instead.

Edit: claimed

Shroud fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Feb 16, 2013

# ¿ Feb 16, 2013 02:13

Shroud: May 11, 2009

My take was that Lorgar genuinely thought it would be best for Angron, but that he knew Angron would have rejected it if he knew what it was.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2013 06:27

Shroud: May 11, 2009

I'm not going to get my hopes up, and just assume there's messing with us.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2013 03:36

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Cream_Filling posted:

I'm pretty sure they're also sterile, in addition to not having a sex-drive. Which is why gene-seed is such a big deal to them.

Also, book report, just read Fire Caste by a new BL author, Peter Fehervari, and I surprisingly enjoyed it (though in the interests of full disclosure I was pretty drunk while reading much of it). Kind of like Apocalpyse Now crossed with that HBO series The Pacific with a (superficial) dash of The Killer Angels (or maybe more like Zybourne Clock). And maybe a nod to Aguirre the Wrath of God. Very much not your typical Bolter porn. I remember the mad priest bits as genuinely frightening and particularly good. Definitely best book with the Tau in it I've read so far, too.

I think it might be the first W40k book I've read that doesn't even have the word "bolter" in it. I really liked it, as well.

It seems like with every new book about the Tau, BL is more and more strongly showing us that the ethereals are performing some kind of proximity-based controlling of other tau. Initially, the only arguments you could really make for it were the article in Xenology and the story of Commander Farsight. Before it was kind of speculated in a maybe/maybe not fashion, but now we keep seeing the ideology of the Greater Good fall apart every time there's no Ethereal (now you can add Fire Caste and I think The Greater Good) nearby.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 19:29

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Nephilm posted:

Wasn't my intention, if that's how it felt. It just had little to do with anything.

Maybe you could be a little more informative, instead of throwing out one liners. On a related note, why is that different? I've forgotten the beginning.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 23:40

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Thanks, I'd honestly forgotten the first part of The First Heretic - I was too excited for the roller coaster to start moving.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2013 00:33

Shroud: May 11, 2009

The Rat posted:

Just finished Death of Antagonis. It was basically bolter porn about a schism that happens in a company of an unknown chapter that has some weird mutations. I started it expecting it to be bad like Soul Drinkers, but it was surprisingly okay, and decently written. It's not on the level of Abnett/ADB, but still a cut above your average bolter porn. It was decent enough that I'm moderately curious to read some other stuff from the same author.

If you don't have much reading time you can skip it. If you're at a dearth for 40k novels and have already read everything Abnett/ADB have put out, it's all right.

It's about the Black Dragon chapter. Relatively (in)famous for the mutations you're talking about. I think this is the first time the fluff has done anything with their inner workings/feelings/traditions. Usually it's just a mention of their mutation.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2013 18:28

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Their pricing for the prose version of their audio books is another abomination. $30 for 6 stories, not even ebooks.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 05:06

Shroud: May 11, 2009

I swear Black Library is trying to make me never buy an ebook from them. $16 for Mark of Calth? I don't care how enhanced it is, how about sell a version without the stupid pictures?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2013 22:31

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Has anyone picked up Deathwatch, by Steve Parker?

About 3/4 of the way through it now. It's basically the back-stories of the members of a particular Deathwatch squad that have popped up on and off in some of the fiction (Hammer & Bolter, maybe?). You find out about the training, and some of the history of characters like Ghost, Scholar, Prophet, Omni, etc. Xenos are involved, of course.

# ¿ May 11, 2013 06:50

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Is it good?

It was ok. Seems to be the first in a series - there's a few plot lines that go unresolved, with clear hooks for later stories. Interestingly, one of them is that a demon claims to have made a bargain with the Exorcist marine (these are the guys whose training consists of being possessed and then throwing out the demon). There's also the ever-present inquisitorial plots within plots. If you've read the other novellas, from Bolter & Chainsword I think, you already know who's going to live (all of them), so there's almost no tension or suspense at all.

In summary, it probably would have been better if it wasn't about that specific squad. It's kind of like eating at Subway, I guess. It's not bad, per se, but it's not going to leave you with fond memories of your time with it.

# ¿ May 13, 2013 04:52

Shroud: May 11, 2009

berzerkmonkey posted:

BL is changing their size format - they're going to the Space Marine Battles book size now, up from the standard paperback size. There's your cost increase - and I'm sure the e-books will go up as well, even though there is absolutely no reason they should.

More bytes = more money, according to BL (in fairness, they're not the only greedy ones).

# ¿ May 24, 2013 18:14

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:26

Shroud: May 11, 2009

He had terminators equipped with multilasers that had all the people who cared about the fluff raging about it. He also wrote about a terminator performing backflips (yes, still in his armor).

Also, lots of torture-porn with the Eldar.

# ¿ May 25, 2013 19:32

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