Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

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FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

PeterWeller posted:

I liked the monstrous compendium and adding new sheets to my binder.

Me too.

Silhouette posted:

Dungeoneer's/Wilderness Survival Guides.

These are great, especially if your group likes (at all) elements of what is now called "fantasy Viet Nam" or whatever. The trick is to use the stuff sparingly.

Lots of stuff to make the usually skimmed over drudgery into mini-adventures for tempo changes. Hunting/gathering rules and charts, environmental hazards discussed and charted, etc... As long as you have to houserule as needed to avoid pointless story-destroying deaths and it can add a lot of flavor to travelling.

If you try and implement everything in the WSG all the time an entire gaming session will amount to "walking across the meadow". :v:

(OTOH that meadow will be the most :black101:

meadow ever.)

AlphaDog posted:

the game is far better in sandbox mode than in story mode.

I prefer a non-rails overarching story myself. The "sandbox mode" is the day to day gaming where the players are making their decisions as to what they actually do, but theres something bigger going on that they are aware of (and theoretically interested in).

Silhouette posted:

2E books are dirt cheap, though

Not all of them. I still feel dumb for skipping one PS book by accident. 128 pages, 120 bux on Amazon (new).

# ¿ May 12, 2013 02:35

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:18

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Ravendas posted:

I've been running a 2e game for awhile, and like to write my own c++ programs to help come up with content. They're all console based, and print to the console and a text file for easily putting into campaign notes.

...

Anyone interested in this kind of stuff? The oldschool forum I post on couldn't really care less about these, though I have a dedicated thread to writing them.

That would be cool. I am sure several people here would be interested if you put it up somewhere. The "Next" thread also has some people that still like 2e as well.

# ¿ May 25, 2013 09:46

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Payndz posted:

Per Mirthless's suggestion in the Wizard King thread, I've added a rule to TAAC that allows a CON save for PCs (and key NPCs) who are reduced to 0HP, rather than the previous "splat, dead" lethality of B/X. I'll update the PDF at some point, as I made a bunch of other little changes too.

EDIT: the CON saves also get progressively harder with each round the dying PC goes untreated, and I added a 'healing kit' to the equipment list that can be used to bring anyone at 0HP up to 1.

Theres also variations that all run along the lines of:

0 = unconscious
-10 = last breath
All negative numbers "bleed" 1pt/rnd
con save ea round to avoid losing the point
healing kit/skill/potion/spell set recipient to 0 THEN add points

That gives a potential 10 rounds (1 turn) to save someone. If something slaps you below -10 then you deserved your heroic ooze/dinosaur/falling/creepingdoom fate.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2013 04:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Winson_Paine posted:

Horror on the Hill (B5) is like my all time favorite D&D module. It really holds up pretty well, even today, which is not something I can say about many TSR modules really.

I never had that one. The A and U series I have amazing memories of, but I am afraid to go re-read them with a modern eye. :ohdear:

edit: you know what gently caress it. I have a group that is in a suspended game around level 4. Maybe Ill re-write some of the A stuff to make it work for the next phase.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2013 06:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Payndz posted:

Monks were always a weird class to me; I'm British, and as such have a very clear idea of what a monk is, so when I first encountered them in the 1e PHB I couldn't understand why Friar Tuck was able to kick so much rear end.

I'm not British and when I was a kid I wondererd the same thing. It was a weird early addition to the faux-Europe setting.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2013 10:53

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Lexx was brilliance hiding under a veneer of fake-stupid.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2014 06:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Or do pure fighter, abuse the weapon specialization expansion and be a loud murder machine.

edit - nevermind I guess youve got a fighter and a ranger

so make that a maybe depending on how you guys play

# ¿ Jun 22, 2014 04:52

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Angrymog posted:

The real problem is that there's a good chance that your half-elf Druid/Mage is only ever getting to level 9 druid and 12 mage

I have barely ever seen anyone use the level caps, for what its worth.

Crazyweasel posted:

I was also thinking of something to try and help with the healing(Our cleric is more of a Dwarf battle priest type).

If your DM likes handling some of the church/god RP stuff priests can be pretty fun. Are you using a setting that allows for specialty priests or just book-clerics?

# ¿ Jun 22, 2014 23:53

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

Level caps were definitely the thing that was always house-ruled out of every 2E game I ever played.

Yeah.

"700 year old Elven High Mage, still less dangerous than a 25 year old human wizards temper tantrum."

And everyone wonders why the humans take over everything :v:

# ¿ Jun 23, 2014 01:15

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Crazyweasel posted:

Our DM is allowing all kits but Psionics, and our gameplay is probably 70% dungeon crawling and 30% RP, maybe even more dungeon crawling. Our cleric got busted for never really praying to his priest or calling his name (He was actually pronouncing his Gods name wrong and was wondering why his heals weren't as effective). My Paladin had a mentor and no God but was starting to commit to Lathander (He led him to a Holy Avenger in Ravenloft ) We are in Faerun, tying in Zhentarim heavy plot with a stint in Ravenloft as well as some interaction with a group called the Circle of Iron and a gateway called the Arch of Archimedes (Not sure if this is from a book or a unique build)

Thanks for all the advice...We only play every 3-4 weeks so I will probably build several characters and if I feel like I could RP a few, I'll run them by the DM. I probably have to opportunity to create an uber character, but I'm happy as long as I don't end up too gimped, and it sounds like whether I multiclass or dual class I won't end up too far behind and possibly even a bit ahead.

If you like the Lathander angle, and want to try the multiclass thing, you could do a half-elf fighter/priest of Lathander (DMs discretion). Take the Sword and Shield style specialization from the Fighter book to set yourself apart from the two-hander guy, specialize in the weapon you use most, and youll have plenty of healing from Lathander to help out. (Plus you turn undead as four levels higher than your level against anything that is affected by sunlight.)

Or theres the full-elf fighter-cleric route worshiping Corellon. (FR - Demihuman Deities) Use the elven archer kit (Fighter book) and rain death down while passing around heal-juice cocktails to your buddies.

(Plus both of those are easy to RP, theres tons of story/hooks/fluff on them.)

# ¿ Jun 23, 2014 02:41

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

OtspIII posted:

like putting two factions at war with each other and deciding that both will probably try to get the PCs to help them tip the odds. Just don't put too much effort into writing the backstory on any one element, since you never know which ones the PCs will get really into and which they'll completely bypass

...

One thing that's useful to do super early is think of any level-spanning things you want to add. Do you want to have an underground river that cuts across multiple levels/zones of the dungeon?

I avoided megadungeons as a matter of taste, but any dungeon-like semi-isolated adventure zone benefits a lot from those two elements.

NPC groups have motivations/goals and their own enemies. Knowing the physical context of an area will automatically fill in a lot of blanks in how you think about it as you build and then describe it.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 11:39

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Getsuya posted:

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into the 2e stuff once I can get my hands on it.

You can start with some class-house-ruling and end up with a pretty varied group.

Like if someone wants to have an affinity for nature start them as a Bard and then create a kit that gives them some Druid or Ranger abilities. Same for a mystic/priest minded character with some bonus access to Clerical magic. Etc...

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 09:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

CountingWizard posted:

Looking back at the differences now, skills took away much of player agency and turned it into progress quest.

Huh? NWPs didnt really advance much. Roll vs a stat and usually pass/fail.

edit: Youre thinking of 3e maybe. The worst e.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2014 01:14

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

CountingWizard posted:

I grew up with 2e and later, and it's the main reason I never felt compelled to play with other people. I mean who wants to spend 6 hours role playing boring story filler crap. Looking back at the differences now, skills took away a lot of player agency and turned it into progress quest.

You copied you own post twice, and neither time are you referring to the right edition.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2014 05:07

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Strength of Many posted:

Question from someone who's only briefly played AD&D, how often do your games ever use the Complete Handbooks? Specifically the Fighter one. I'm curious to see if combat maneuvers and the like were an actual staple of the Fighter and their ilk or if its a fever dream.

We used them constantly. (Did you mean the fighting styles? Like "Single Weapon" and "Two Handed Weapon" specialties?)

Zombies' Downfall posted:

The splats for 2E, even the Complete books which were ostensibly a series, also weren't created equal in terms of quality or mechanics. Comparing the kits from Complete Thief and Complete Bard is absurd; the majority of the former either do nothing or give you a +2 reaction roll bonus or penalty, while the latter are basically fully-blown subclasses with unique abilities that still give me ideas for Bard characters and NPCs in modern iterations of the game.

The Thief one was specifically bad. Nothing beats the Elven Archer for potential low-level brokenness though.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2014 22:28

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Halloween Jack posted:

I think there was some kind of forums glitch, because I also posted a follow-up reply which disappeared. To repeat it in brief:

When discussing opinions on 2e, it's hard to distinguish people's opinions on the core ruleset from what they think of the campaign settings, the changes to the existing settings, the many optional players kits and rules supplements, and how they felt about a TSR that was no longer associated with Gygax.

I meant specifically the comment about the skills "progress quest". Unless you were using a set of rules that I can remember, that really wasnt a thing that existed in 2e. The non-weapon proficiencies were mostly pass/fail rolls based on stats with a modifier.

The ridiculous skill/number bloat was another mess that came in with 3e. "How much better is a +51 than a +46???"

# ¿ Aug 25, 2014 06:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Silhouette posted:

This is just a reminder that Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition is still King poo poo of fantasy RPG mountain and you should all be playing it.

http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/

The best DnD.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 21:01

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Ghetto Fighter is Short Shaft?

2e never stops giving!

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 03:50

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

gradenko_2000 posted:

Magic-Users able to store extra level 1 spells in their staves and simplifying most rolls to d6's.

Ive used variations on that before and its worked out well for the early levels.

The one I remember best was the junior wiz was aided by his mentor in making a final gift staff (~story stuff~) and in the end it could store two spells that were fixed by type, but rechargable at the same rate as memorization. (He was a new player and chose shield and magic missile because (~obvious reasons~). I was using the "It takes 15 minutes to memorize a spell per spell level" gimmick so its easy for a low level mage to regain their juice after a fight, but a pain in the rear end for a high level one that is wasteful. (So 3 first level spells for the 2staff+1memorized = 45 mins. One 4th level spell = 60 mins. Etc..)

# ¿ Oct 7, 2014 01:30

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yes, that's it - what was the basis for it. Averaging them all out or just taking the save vs spells category was what came to mind intuitively, but I haven't really dug deep enough into how the saves are/were assigned in the first place to know if that'd come out the same.

Its probably worth having at least two saves, so that magic and physical have different save aptitudes. Save vs poison/falling is different than charm/magic-lightning.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2014 07:20

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

OtspIII posted:

That said, 'party of a given level' is super hard to balance for. A party where everyone is at half HP and has used half their spells is (kind of, close enough) basically at the same power level as a party half their level.

You also need to know you group. If they are cautious then you can push-pull them a bit, if they are video game "forward until death" types then you have to baby them (or make new characters a lot).

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 10:02

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Power Ambient posted:

Hi friends, I'm looking to introduce some never-played-before pals to AD&D 2E (the one I played in jr. high) and I'm trying to do some basic dungeon crawls, but I'm wondering if there are any that you folks have made or something that's like a package of crawls to start out with? Something super easy to get absolute newbies accustomed to playing? Any help appreciated. Thank!

Do an on-the-fly conversion of the 3e module "The Sunless Citadel" but set it in your world (wherever that is) and play up the goblins vs kobolds gimmick. The players get to decide to help one side or the other or neither. I took that thing and made an involved FR story out of it saying it was an old Elven fortress/temple dedicated to Dragon worship and redrew the map. (The players sided with the Kobolds so of course their leader ended up being a wanna-be dragon low level sorcerer who was just tough enough to stand up to a bunch of lv1/lv2 players and cut deals.) i threw in a couple stories/adventures about re-activating an old Elven portal and a super-messed-up crazy/corrupted druid several layers down who was converting bodies into plant food and then crafting twig-creatures to help him plan a [blah blah blah]. The lower part of the broken structure had a way to squirm down into the upper underdark.

Change the hooks to fit your players preferred things.

One lame module became a series of entertaining things and a half dozen hooks.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2014 02:24

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Power Ambient posted:

Thanks to everyone for the responses, but thanks for this because it got me searching into AD&D modules for low level characters. The Keep on the Borderlands is, it seems, the "7th Greatest Adventure" according to the List of AD&D modules wiki page, so I went and got that from Ebay. I also downloaded the One Page Dungeon PDFs from the last three years. I'm sure I'll be back after I read through this material, so thanks! I did read the OP and printed out the "Building a Fantasy Sandbox" but it's slightly more involved than I'd like to get right now, as fun as it looks.

Just warp/enrich/grow them to your world and group regardless of which ones you use. Thats what makes them go from canned soup to awesome stew. Or whatever analogy you like.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2014 02:06

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

gradenko_2000 posted:

This is a rough draft of some ideas I'd been bouncing around in my head for giving OSR Magic-Users some 4E-style at-will and encounter powers. It came about because as I was rolling up a random dungeon using the B/X tables, it occurred to me that a level 1 MU might find this place deeply unsatisfying because he'd just be hurling rocks after his one spell (not exactly a huge revelation, I know).

One 2e option is to let the mage use [missile] of whatever as an alternate weapon (throwing daggers were popular with our groups) and let spells be memorized based on level vs time. I used 15 game minutes to memorize one spell level. That lets the player(s) have to prioritize what they save and what they rememorize, without ever completely running them dry. Theres always an excuse for a 30-60 min rest/bandage/eat break in-character. When they get the higher-level spells then those become much more of a limited commodity.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 03:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

gradenko_2000 posted:

The problem I'm seeing is that of scaling: if a spell targets AC, a Magic-User is going to be +2 attack behind a Fighter by Name level, and +6 attack behind a Fighter by level 20. Granted, 10% less chance to hit by the point where most campaigns peter out maybe isn't that bad a deal.

Similarly, if a spell targets Saving Throws (vs spell)

If youre going to do this make sure their "never runs out" ability is worse than a thrown dagger, which they also have but have to actually carry as a limited resource. And I would definitley make it a to-hit roll. It will get tedious for you to roll saves every time the mage sneezes.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Also, if the distance or targeting definition in the spells seems rather vague, I did intentionally write it that way with a mind towards an abstract [Ranged > Melee Scrum < Ranged] behavior.

Again, I would make it short ranged - no better than a dagger or dart.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 03:20

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

OtspIII posted:

giving people way more liberties when it comes to little cool flourishes that don't really change game mechanics. Letting people who want to play wizards the ability to throw little darts of magic instead of daggers really does up certain types of new players' fun, while not really having much of a downside.

Once a DM is comfortable with the system, this is good for all classes. I usually avoid letting it bleed into combat much, but if the mage really wants to pull a beer across a table or whatever, let them have semi-permanent access to various cantrips. Same for fighters and rogues in non-combat. Let them RP it up a bit. (Just leave room for getting better later.)

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 23:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Kemper Boyd posted:

The RC is probably the best D&D thing ever. For one, it's one book for all your needs, even the ones you don't have because let's face it, no one ever even tried out that Immortals garbage.

I never even looked at it way back, but I wish I had it now! (For entertainment. I have no idea how it was put together.)

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 23:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

ascendance posted:

I just don't like racial classes. I don't. It annoys me on some level.

Same. 2e gave me all the fake-eco/econ/zoo/socio/myth/etc stuff I like too. (Mainly the FR and PS piles.)

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 02:11

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

PeterWeller posted:

RC has rules to convert all your AD&D stuff.

Some magical day when I have the legendary "free time" again.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 02:25

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I like racial classes. Picking a race based on synergy with your class sucks, wanting to play a race that sucks at your class sucks, and you can still call yourself whatever you want.

Nothing wrong with elven thieves and dwarven priests. :colbert:

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 03:58

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

DalaranJ posted:

your character can be a human 'elf', but I assure you that they studied very hard in order to learn infravision.

NOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :suicide:

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 12:53

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Evil Mastermind posted:

If I was going to make a BD&D retroclone, I'd keep the base four classes, but change them for each race. So humans would be the "standard" fighter/cleric/magic-user/thief, but for the dwarf the classes would become something like tunnel fighter/stonespeaker/runecarver/mechanist, and they'd be different from the "standard" class.

I like having easy-picks available, but would still want to let players branch out on the ideas if they wanted to.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 21:14

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

DalaranJ posted:

This hasn't gotten an answer from anybody yet, and I'm going to give a bad answer.

A lot of retroclones have a boats section because it was in D&D, but I've never seen one that focus on naval stuff. I'd freewheel it personally. Just don't forget to make them save vs scurvy.

There was some boat-specific stuff in 2e, but its pretty hard to find AFAIK.

Oh theres a pdf now. : http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/16933/DMGR9-Of-Ships-and-the-Sea-2e?it=1

quote:

As its title almost suggests, DMGR9: Of Ships and the Sea covers two related topics: nautical adventuring and underwater adventuring. (Perhaps it should have been called "Of Ships and the Undersea" for clarity.)

...

Though Ships offered a pretty definitive take on "nautical adventuring" for AD&D, it was far from the first look at the topic in the various D&D games. X1: "The Isle of Dread" (1980) for Expert D&D may have been the earliest take - though that adventure is largely focused on the island wilderness, not the sea surrounding it.

In the 2e era, several different books included statistics for ships, rules for ships, seaside adventuring, or all three - but there was no particular continuity among them for the most part. FOR3: Pirates of the Fallen Stars (1992) was the first and one of the most noteworthy, since it contains one full chapter on ships and one full chapter on movement and combat. Two Al-Qadim products are also worth mentioning: ALQ1: Golden Voyage (1992) contains stats and maps for several ships, while Corsairs of the Great Sea (1994) features nautical adventures.

Finally, Naval Battle Rules: The Seas of Cerilia (1996) was published just a year previous to Ships; it's set in the world of Birthright, TSR's campaign setting that focused on politics and warfare. Like its predecessors, Seas of Cerilia is incompatible with DMGR9 - though the latter book notes that GMs might use its ship combat rules if they want a "less arbitrary method for resolving naval battles."

About Underwater Adventuring. Underwater adventuring is a noble D&D tradition that dates back to AD&D's U3: "The Final Enemy" (1983). D&D also covered the topic in X8: "Drums on Fire Mountain" (1984), and AD&D 2e returned to it in GA1: "The Murky Deep" (1993) - an adventure that TSR supplemented with a few articles in Dragon #190 (February 1993). Ships provides a lot more depth than its predecessors, though. Prior to its publication, there had also been many descriptions of underwater races, the most notable of which was PC3: "The Sea People" (1990) for Basic D&D.

Some of the Underwater Adventuring section of Ships focuses on "Underwater Survival" and "Underwater Topology." As such, it feels a bit like an "Underwater Survival Guide" that could have complemented the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide (1986) and Wilderness Survival Guide (1986) for AD&D 1e.

Future History. Ships was released simultaneously with The Sea Devils (1997), a book on the sahuagin, as well as three related "Monstrous Arcana" adventures: Evil Tide (1997), Night of the Shark (1997), and Sea of Blood (1997). These four sahuagin books, with their underwater focus, form a nice (and purposeful) complement to Ships. A few years later, the Forgotten Realms Sea of Fallen Stars (1999) supplement was written with these previous five books in mind - and in fact summarizes some of the DMGR9 rules.

WotC also returned to the topic of seaside adventuring in two issues of Dragon: Dragon #250 (August 1998) generally covers the Deep; in it, "Warships of the Sea" (by Ships author Strohm) specifically adds cannons to the Ships game system. Dragon #273 (July 2000) brings the 2e era to an end with "Swashbucklers" - a somewhat related topic.

More recently 3e revisited the marine environment in Stormwrack (2005).

I have "The Sea Devils" and the U series. Those are all entertaining. I have the FR Sea of Fallen Stars stuff and remember it had nautical-type rules in it, but cant recall any details.

http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons-Edition/dp/078690643X
http://www.amazon.com/FALLEN-STARS-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786913932
http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Fallen-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Forgotten/dp/1560763205

... and if youre rich, grab a "new" copy of this!
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons-Adventure-Character/dp/0880380284/
(For underwater adventures, not boats.)

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 19:05

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Moriatti posted:

Hey, are there any neutral good outsiders with wish in 2e? We want to make one of our party a Dragon forever.

I dont know what an "Outsider" is, but Djinn had grant wish as an ability.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 19:06

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

It been sooooo many years I am not sure, but I think the A series (Slaves...) had some ship/boat stuff in it as well?

# ¿ Dec 21, 2014 19:12

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Bob Quixote posted:

Though as you said, player survivability is an issue at low levels and no one likes the idea of being one-shotted by a Kobold about 5% of the time.

(Secretly) Make players (mostly) immune to crits until level 3 or 5 or so. You can pretend its a "crit" when they take max damage from the orc spear.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 03:14

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

hectorgrey posted:

Honestly, I really hate that idea. NPCs may lie to the players all the time. The GM shouldn't - and if that means a PC goes down, the PC goes down. Adventuring is dangerous, and they aren't heroes until they earn it. If they've already earned it, they shouldn't be level 1...

Totally different style. I care about making sure the players are having fun and the narrative is good. I have never felt the need to make players survive "flip the coin" at level one. If people want to play against a RNG or a computer they have nethack or dungeon crawl.

Players die from player decisions. Not coin tosses. (I am exaggerating to make the point.) I also think players should die more from attrition (valiantly fighting there way along, making decisions and ect) than SURPRISE YOURE DEAD! ... and thats what you get at bottom levels against criticals.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 04:42

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Theres always crit = take another swing.

Or you could just bluntly announce that only PCs and named/leveled NPCs get critical hits? Or only intelligent weapon-users. Or whatever. Then theres no "Oh poo poo that calico cat scratched you for LETHAL DAMAGE" things... and the players are aware from the beginning.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Dec 24, 2014

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 05:54

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

AlphaDog posted:

Speaking here from the perspective of BECMI's Basic set: Do it strictly by the books, but first generate a big (like ~20) pile of spare characters on premade sheets. Place those sheets face down on the table. If a PC dies, they take the next sheet in the pile (or take the top 2 and choose one and place the other back on the bottom), and arrive on scene in 1d4 rounds (ie, probably during the current fight, if there's a current fight).

If everyone is into that (DnD as Diablo/Doom) its fine, but if the players are invested into playing "this" character and suddenly are forced from paladin to halfling they may not have as much fun.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 14:30

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:18

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

AlphaDog posted:

I'd fix this problem by not calling for initiative or attack rolls when a cat scratches someone or in any other situation where it would be silly or uninteresting to do a combat.

I wasnt being literal. (Although I am sure people have done that.)

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 16:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

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