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Anais Nun posted:Yeah, Westerns are pretty far down the foodchain. They're sort of the grandpa equivalent of those pink, clinch-cover romances that grandma used to love. Personally I would definitely avoid pitching to agents as a Western - if it's set in the past it's historical fiction. I don't know about the YA thing but if you can get in on that gravy train, give it a shot. To be safe, I would say historical fiction. Just because one of the main characters is a teenager does not automatically lump a work into the YA category. For example, Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series features a 16-year-old main character named Vin. Granted, I'm only about 70% through the first book, but she seems like a fairly central character thus far.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:10
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This may have been addressed before, but it's one of those debated topics with a wide array of opinions: What separates themes that can be presented in a YA series versus an adult series? For my understanding, it's not necessarily about the age of the main character(s). Also, judging from works like The Hunger Games series, death and war are acceptable topics. There's actually quite a bit of dystopian stuff out there these days that can be categorized under teen romance and whatnot. How dark can a writer reasonably go until it is inappropriate content for YA?
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May 25, 2013 15:39
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Jeza posted:1) There is no theme too 'dark' for YA, so long as the darkness is focused in the events and not so much in the overall tone/perspective. What ought to be be avoided are more introspective/intellectual themes that cannot really be appreciated by a young audience. A descent into alcoholism or the fall-out from divorce or whatever the hell - not really appropriate. Miserable wastelands and tortured souls are A-OK, so long it is framed within a less grim perspective a la adventure, revenge (maybe), save the world etc. Thanks for responding! That did help put things into perspective. I did wonder about the "descent into alcoholism or the fall-out from divorce" part, though. Aren't such topics (i.e. dealing with burgeoning sexuality, the struggle against drug use, etc.) frequent features in the Bildungsroman? Or would you say those are coming-of-age stories featuring young protagonists but overall meant for an adult readership? I definitely agree with your second point. I think that must be why a lot of those teen bestseller series feature first-person narrators.
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May 27, 2013 20:58
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I come from a background of (text-based) RPGs, so the idea of brain vs. brawn has kind of stuck with me. As in, if I have a super smart character, would it too much to make the character a fighter as well? This seemed to be especially applicable to female characters out of the desire to not make them Mary Sues. Is there a character in a well-known work that could be deemed brainy and physically capable? She doesn't have to be a weapons guru or a weekend ninja of some sort; in fact, that would probably make things less believable. Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games could certainly be labelled a fighter who's smart, but my intended focus is leaning more towards the brainy side of things. How much fighting ability could someone who is only taught a few things (by someone who is very experienced) have if she borders on genius-level IQ? Are there any examples of female characters in classical or popular fiction that illustrates this? I would appreciate any tips on how to portray this adequately in writing.
Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 02:22
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Martello posted:You do realize real life is not a PnP RPG and you don't have to specialize in one or two things, right? Yeah, but it's also not realistic to be super good at a variety of things since most things worth learning take time to develop and there's only so much energy one can devote to certain activities. You can't exactly be a concert pianist, a varsity player in 3 sports, AND be an expert sniper. At least it would be extremely rare. (ETA: For the record, when I mentioned RP, I meant starting off the character creation process with a basic bio sheet for keeping track of important facts: name, age, personality, backstory. Nothing too extensive. I have zero experience in dice rolling or stats counting, which seems to be what people are thinking that I do in this case.) crabrock posted:TRY COLLEGE THEY LITERALLY MAKE YOU DO THAT OK And all joking aside, to be that knowledgeable about certain academic topics, yeah, there would be some narrowing of topics of study involved. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 02:47
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Chairchucker posted:Weren't you just specifically talking about being both intelligent AND good at physical things, though? Because I put it to you that being intelligent would be helpful in excelling at other, multiple areas. Perhaps the heat and my prescription-strength allergy meds are making me loopy and I'm not being as clear as I mean to be. In that case, apologies. By "physical things," I mean like martial prowess. I just meant having a high IQ or being traditionally "book smart" doesn't always equate, as they say, "street smart" or being gifted in one of the other intelligences (i.e. Musical - Rhymthic, Bodily - Kinesthic, Interpersonal, etc.). I was simply wondering how "gifted" could a young female character reasonably be without being considered over-the-top. PoshAlligator posted:Sherlocks Holmes is male, but he is super intelligent and also a boxing master and stuff. But then he is a drug addict and has like Asperger's or whatever (undiagnosed). Ah, okay, excellent example, PoshAlligator! Thank you, that's basically what I was looking for. I hadn't thought of him as an example. I suppose the intelligence when utilized in planning would work appropriately. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 03:10
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Crisco Kid posted:Are you familiar with the ten thousand hours theory proposed by Malcolm Gladwell in Outliers? Whether or not you subscribe to all of Gladwell's ideas, the concept isn't too crazy: it takes about ten thousand hours of devoted practice to reach an expert level of skill. If you subscribe to this, time is really your only limit -- how many things would she have this much time to devote to, or 7000 hours, or 5000? And as others have said, being intelligent will only help in these areas; even in less intellectual skills like art or physical abilities, intelligence certainly won't hurt. Smart = weak is a fallacy. Ignore what other specifically female characters have done. God knows we more diversity to draw from, so reference any character or real person you like. Thank you for giving the source of the theory. I do recall professors mentioning something like this as applied to learning, but I couldn't remember the details. TheIncredulousHulk posted:To add to what everybody else is saying, it really doesn't matter. There are pro athletes who also happen to be legit geniuses. Some people just win the genetic lottery. When readers complain about characters being "unrealistically talented" or whatever, that's not really what they're complaining about. That's just the easiest way to phrase what's actually bothering them about the story in question. This was very helpful, thank you. The consensus seems to be about focusing on balancing out the talents with reasonable flaws, and execution by presenting everything in an non-idiotic way that pulls attention away from the story itself. There will be adequate content to her backstory that she would have to have some psychological flaws.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:28
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Honestly, if you can't think of any characters who are both smart and physically skilled, you really need to read more. I can think of plenty of characters who are both. However, the character comparisons I had in mind... someone having the combination of the academic-oriented intelligence of Hermione Granger as well as the butt-kicking skills of Buffy, to cite a couple of age range appropriate young female characters. No examples of such a character came readily to mind when I wrote the post, especially YA examples, although in retrospect I suppose Annabeth Chase from the PJO books fits the bill. I had been hoping for some more well-written examples, though, so I can get a better idea of how to portray such a character believably. How to show, not tell with long paragraphs of ramble-y infodumping. A rather amateur question, perhaps, but I am obviously an inexperienced writer, which is why I ask. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 01:59
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Martello posted:Give us like a scene or something. You're just going on about characters and sounding like a DnD/Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossover fanfic writer or something. None of us can give you advice about your characters if you don't show us how you're going to use them. I haven't yet gotten to a scene in my project that illustrates this specifically since I am still early in my character creation and writing stage -- no action scenes that would require my heroine to be both brainy and brawny (unless you meant any writing sample for this character at all) -- but I certainly will when I do. Thanks to everyone who commented for their feedback! Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 00:29
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Stuporstar posted:Read this right loving now, http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/19/avoiding-boring-character-biographies/ and then write some scenes for your character. Don't even think about making a pansy little character sheet or plotting your story yet. If you're too timid to commit to your story because you're pissing around, then at least piss around in a constructive way. Get some goddamned words on the page, mister. If it would be helpful, I could post up the first chronological scene that involves this character. But as I mentioned, it's early in the story and I don't think it would show too much of the character. I do have a few main characters thought up and a short, lovely outline worked out. I tend to over-research and overthink my characters, which I'm sure is apparent. It's finally hit me that I do this to my detriment when I recently asked a question about character creation on Joe Abercrombie's blog and he suggested creating a basic idea of the characters but allowing them to take form more organically. I appreciate the link! I work well with prompts, so this will be a great exercise in character exploration for me. I will get cracking on a few when I get back home from work tomorrow. Panda So Panda fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 01:06
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Stuporstar posted:Read this right loving now, http://writerunboxed.com/2013/07/19/avoiding-boring-character-biographies/ and then write some scenes for your character. I took the "When was she most ill, or most near death? Who cared for her, if anyone, and what bond was formed or undermined through that ordeal?" prompt and came up with a one-page, 721-word thingy. Where should I post that, The Farm? SuBeCo posted:Panda So Panda, it might be useful to look at why your character is both brainy (intellectual/educated) and physical (fit/strong). Being smart doesn't make you know things automatically, and having the potential to be fit doesn't mean you'll work out. Was she placed in the gifted program at school? Did her parents place an emphasis on education? Did they notice her becoming withdrawn or a bookworm and put her into team sports to develop her emotional intelligence? Did she realise she couldn't relate to peers in her age group and so decide to take up sports to make friends? Did she read about feminism and realise that the stereotype of brainy=weak was bullshit and decide to work on her physical strength? Does she find her brains difficult to deal with and enjoy the stress release and endorphins of exercise? Actually, she isn't necessarily both brainy and physical at the moment. In fact, the way I've thought of her so far, she's primarily a brain. However, over the course of my story, she would be thrown into some hairy situations where she would benefit from a little more than just book smarts. My original question was about how much buttkicking could she reasonably do without it seeming ridiculous and unlikely? The questions you listed gave me additional food for thought, so thanks for them.
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Jul 23, 2013 01:15
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Sorry for the delay in getting my character blurb posted - busy work week! After some proofreading, it ended up being 510 words instead of 700-whatever. It is over here for your critique.SuBeCo posted:Ah, my apologies. Well, being a relatively average girl here's some random information for you (I'm assuming that you're a guy). I'm not terribly fit - I can do a few boy push-ups, but I can't do a pull-up. Interestingly, though, my sister is incredibly fit and quite strong - she does yoga, pole-fitness, aerial hoop and more. She can't do a pull-up. What she does have though is a very high level of endurance, and from my experience with people I know this is quite common among girls who are fit. Will your character be likely able to go toe-to-toe with some six foot guy? Nope. Could she outrun him over a long distance? Maybe. Basically what I'm saying is, if your character has no real history of physical fitness, be wary of applying your own experiences to her capabilities. Pull-ups in this scenario stand in for upper-body strength which most guys (even the not so fit) have more of than girls. Surprisingly, I am also female. I've just never been terribly good at gauging other people's physical fitness since I grew up in the slender-but-not-"fit" category. My youthful metabolism was pretty decent, but now in my twenties I'll have to work at it, so thank you (and the others who offered info along these lines) for pointing out the perspectives. There are a few female characters in this writing project that are supernaturally inclined to have more-than-normal strength, so this realism-check won't necessarily apply, but this particular character does not so she certainly won't be able to go toe-to-toe with most guys of average and above height and strength. Her degree of cardio fitness may enable her to outrun danger, at least for a little while, depending on who or what pursuing her.
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Jul 27, 2013 13:56
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Purple Prince posted:Basing realistic characters off archetypes is totally contrary to the spirit of Jung's psychology. One thing he was always very clear about is that no person is an archetype: archetypes are just images with a very strong (primal?) bundle of complexes tied to them. In short, I agree most strongly with this viewpoint. ^^ I think Stuporstar is correct in that going by tropes (since people have been mentioning TV Tropes lately) can make characters and plots stale and cookie-cutter. However, I wouldn't consider stereotypes and archetypes as being the same when it comes to literature. Just look at the classic Hero's Journey idea. SirSigma has a point. Background characters can be one dimensional to fill a necessary role. If you find yourself liking the stock character enough to flesh out the backstory and involve them more centrally, then they can develop into a fully formed character that resonate as more realistic.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:43
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