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sebmojo posted:only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop. "Goodness gracious! Is that you, Mr. Bumble, sir?" said Mrs. Mann, thrusting her head out of the window in well-affected ecstasies of joy. "(Susan, take Oliver and them two brats up stairs, and wash 'em directly.) My heart alive! Mr. Bumble, how glad I am to see you, sure-ly!" Now, Mr. Bumble was a fat man, and a choleric; so, instead of responding to this open-hearted salutation in a kindred spirit, he gave the little wicket a tremendous shake, and then bestowed upon it a kick which could have emanated from no leg but a beadle's. "Lor, only think," said Mrs. Mann, running out, -- for the three boys had been removed by this time, -- "only think of that! That I should have forgotten that the gate was bolted on the inside, on account of them dear children! Walk in, sir; walk in, pray, Mr. Bumble, do, sir." Although this invitation was accompanied with a curtsey that might have softened the heart of a churchwarden, it by no means mollified the beadle. "Do you think this respectful or proper conduct, Mrs. Mann," inquired Mr. Bumble, grasping his cane, "to keep the parish officers a waiting at your garden-gate, when they come here upon porochial business connected with the porochial orphans? Are you aweer, Mrs. Mann, that you are, as I may say, a porochial delegate, and a stipendiary?" "I'm sure, Mr. Bumble, that I was only a telling one or two of the dear children as is so fond of you, that it was you a coming," replied Mrs. Mann with great humility. Mr. Bumble had a great idea of his oratorical powers and his importance. He had displayed the one, and vindicated the other. He relaxed. "Well, well, Mrs. Mann," he replied in a calmer tone; "it may be as you say; it may be. Lead the way in, Mrs. Mann, for I come on business, and have something to say." Mrs. Mann ushered the beadle into a small parlour with a brick floor; placed a seat for him; and officiously deposited his cocked hat and cane on the table before him. Mr. Bumble wiped from his forehead the perspiration which his walk had engendered, glanced complacently at the cocked hat, and smiled. Yes, he smiled. Beadles are but men; and Mr. Bumble smiled. "Now don't you be offended at what I'm a going to say," observed Mrs. Mann, with captivating sweetness. "You've had a long walk, you know, or I wouldn't mention it. Now, will you take a little drop of somethink, Mr. Bumble?" "Not a drop. Not a drop," said Mr. Bumble, waving his right hand in a dignified, but placid manner. "I think you will," said Mrs. Mann, who had noticed the tone of the refusal, and the gesture that had accompanied it. "Just a leetle drop, with a little cold water, and a lump of sugar." Mr. Bumble coughed. "Now, just a leetle drop," said Mrs. Mann persuasively. "What is it?" inquired the beadle. "Why, it's what I'm obliged to keep a little of in the house to put into the blessed infants' Daffy, when they ain't well, Mr. Bumble," replied Mrs. Mann as she opened a corner cupboard, and took down a bottle and glass. "It's gin. I'll not deceive you, Mr. B. It's gin." "Do you give the children Daffy, Mrs. Mann?" inquired Bumble, following with his eyes the interesting process of mixing. "Ah, bless 'em, that I do, dear as it is," replied the nurse. "I couldn't see 'em suffer before my very eyes, you know, sir." "No;" said Mr. Bumble approvingly; "no, you could not. You are a humane woman, Mrs. Mann." (Here she set down the glass.) "I shall take a early opportunity of mentioning it to the board, Mrs. Mann." (He drew it towards him.) "You feel as a mother, Mrs. Mann." (He stirred the gin-and-water.) "I- I drink your health with cheerfulness, Mrs. Mann;" and he swallowed half of it. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 09:54
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sebmojo posted:only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop. Turning the envelope over, his hand trembling, Harry saw a purple wax seal bearing a coat of arms; a lion, an eagle, a badger, and a snake surrounding a large letter H. "Hurry up, boy!" shouted Uncle Vernon from the kitchen. "What are you doing, checking for letter bombs?" He chucked at his own joke. Harry went back to the kitchen, still staring at his letter. He handed Uncle Vernon the bill and the postcard, sat down, and slowly began to open the yellow envelope. Uncle Vernon ripped open the bill, snorted in disgust, and flipped over the post card. "Marge's ill," he informed Aunt Petunia. "Ate a funny whelk..." "Dad!" said Dudley suddenly. "Dad, Harry's got something!" Harry was on the point of unfolding his letter, which was written on the same heavy parchment as the envelope, when it was jerked sharply out of his hand by Uncle Vernon. "That's mine!" said Harry, trying to snatch it back. "Who'd be writing to you?" sneered Uncle Vernon, shaking the letter open with one hand and glancing at it. His face went from red to green faster than a set of traffic lights. And it didn't stop there. Within seconds it was the grayish white of old porridge. "P-P-Petunia!" he gasped. Dudley tried to grab the letter to read it, but Uncle Vernon held it high out of his reach. Aunt Petunia took it curiously and read the first line. For a moment it looked as though she might faint. She clutched her throat and made a choking noise. "Vernon! Oh my goodness -- Vernon!" The stared at each other, seeming to have forgotten that Harry and Dudley were still in the room. Dudley wasn't used to being ignored. He gave his father a sharp tap on the head with his Smelting stick. "I want to read that letter," he said loudly. "I want to read it," said Harry furiously, "as it's mine." "Get out, both of you," croaked uncle Vernon, stuffing the letter back inside its envelope.
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Nov 3, 2015 11:05
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You can't traditionally publish and keep your IP. It might revert to you after a while, if you can convince them to put that in your contract (lol, probably not). You can expect royalties of...uh, maybe 8-12% I think? Benefits: probably an advance on royalties, professional editors, professional cover designers (though you'll have less control over cover), some amount of advertising budget given to you, they can get paper copies of your book on shelves. In theory you will sell a lot more books and the reduced royalty per book is worth it. Very few trad-pub companies accept non-solicited manuscripts (i.e. you have to get an agent). Read the self-pub thread for self-pub stuff. Small-presses are kind of in-between, they help you out with some stuff and take a smaller cut of your royalties. Lots of variables here and I don't know how to find a good/reliable one. Probably look at their catalog and see how it's doing on amazon? What mag7 did wasn't a small press, it was some other mysterious thing, I'm pretty sure. I'd self-pub romance and attempt to trad-pub everything else. This place is good for query advice: http://queryshark.blogspot.com https://www.alanjacobson.com/writers-toolkit/the-business-of-publishing/ says this about typical trad-pub royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter. Ebooks: 25% of what the publisher receives Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 21:08
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magnificent7 posted:That's so cute the way you put it like that. That is still money flowing from the publisher to the author, not the other way around.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:22
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NiffStipples posted:Thanks! I'll do as you advise and maybe I'll read up on the self publishing thread once more just because. I'm, without a doubt, the worst when it comes to dealing business matters. Especially when it comes to my hobbies (technically my passion). I just wanna create poo poo and move on It sounds like you definitely want to start with an attempt at traditional publishing, at the very least. Self-pub very much requires dealing with business stuff. The good news is that it can be learned, and it's not as complicated as it seems. With traditional publishing, the basic process is to get your manuscript as good as you possibly can, find agents to query, and do so. The agent then takes care of selling it to a publishing house and managing your relationship with them. Don't bother checking out Mag7's links if you want to find an agent! Personally, I don't think the twitter blitzes are a good way to find agents. They're sporadic and not that many agents participate, plus they seem to have a decided bias towards YA and Romance (just look at the first page of the hashtag). You can see by Mag7's post that he isn't actually trying to be helpful, as the next two links he posts are basically trying to discredit what he just said about finding a literary agent. Also that literary agent vader thing is just a bunch of lame jokes?? A sample post: Literary Agent Vader @AgentVader Aug 21 -- #askagent Most female agents take wayyyyy too many pictures of their cats. Like, Jesus ... they're loving cats! Get a life! I don't think that's the kind of advice you want. I don't know wtf Mag7 is doing, but he's not giving you helpful advice at all. Some real advice on finding an agent: To find agents you want to query, look at other books in your genre/sub-genre, go to the acknowledgments section, where they will usually thank their agent. You can also look at directories like https://www.writersmarket.com (pay site), https://www.agentquery.com (free), or https://querytracker.net. I got all these names from this article on finding an agent on the Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America: http://www.sfwa.org/real/ Once you have some agents that look interesting, read their websites to make sure they really want what you are sending. Then it's time to write your query. As mentioned above, http://queryshark.blogspot.com has tons of advice and examples on how to do that. Then, send in your queries and wait. General Battuta posted:
Also, expect it to take over a year to get an agent/sell your book/get it released. It's slow. * The above information has been compiled through a couple years of reading about how to publish a novel instead of finishing writing one! * Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 04:24
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but also it's true, when you are trying to sell your novel most agents will expect to reject you after the first three paragraphs of your query letter. They won't even look at your manuscript.
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I didn't mean to imply that they weren't legit or anything. And they look fun, too. I just don't think that if you want to find an agent, your best bet is to wait for someone else to post on twitter asking for something like your novel.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:36
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magnificent7 posted:Hey - just a quick note... no advice, no condescending crap. Congrats on finishing and publishing this -- writing/editing an entire book is an awesome accomplishment! Grabbed it on KU, so you'll get some $$
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Nov 11, 2015 06:14
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Hey, I just wrote this big thing about critiques in writing groups on a friend's Facebook, because I am like this IRL, too.my friend on Facebook posted:The problem with traditional workshop criticism is that the author will either hear "This sucks" or "This is great," and either way they'll stop listening. I wish it was possible to withhold that kind of advice and instead find some way to directly engage with the text. I've found that asking questions about what the writer meant ends up with too much of the writer talking about what they wanted to say instead of the critiques focusing on what the words actually said. It might just be a function of working in a group of primarily "beginner writers," but in my experience, that results in more explanation and excuses from the writer, and less constructive feedback from the critiquers. There is actually LESS listening. What has worked best in my groups is setting up a structure for the feedback, like "first we will talk about how you dealt with setting, then plot, then characters, then dialogue." Or "let's start with where this scene could be improved, then what you did well." Or sometimes with what aspects the author had specific questions about, i.e. "man, writing the dialogue in this scene was like pulling teeth. Was reading it the same?" Hopefully obviously, there weren't rigid lines within the discussions. You can hardly discuss plot effectively without discussing characterization, or characterization without discussing dialogue. Mentioning "setting" as a separate category feels almost bizarre to me now, but the group in question was formed as a follow-along to the Brandon Sanderson lecture series, so we were all writing fantasy/sci-fi novels, and effectively conveying setting was pretty important in the first several chapters at least, and definitely deserved its own topic, but as you know, setting can't just be dropped in whole-sale, so even those discussions overlapped with other topics. Having conversational "sub-headings" meant that practically no discussion started with "I liked this, but..." or "I didn't really like this, but..." Instead the author might get the impression that people overall liked or disliked one aspect, and possibly stop listening, but would start listening again when we moved on. The general "like/dislike" grouping worked well, too, at least within our small group, once we all knew each other pretty well. Not gonna lie, I probably listened a little bit harder to all of the things people liked, because "yay praise!" But I did also pay attention to each of the things that people disliked. And because of the way it was organized, there was discussion around each point. Someone would like something, and another person might dislike it. Someone else would have a third opinion like "I liked/disliked it for a different reason." When we addressed the author's own uncertainties about a scene/chapter, I think they were just inherently likely to listen to everything we had to say because we were going over something they had already thought about a lot. Although maybe they just wanted confirmation for their gut feelings. I'm trying to remember how I react in these particular situations, and am realizing that I cannot give a reliable answer. One thing that, in my opinion, made a huge difference in this group, was that we were very strongly encouraged to make a few WRITTEN notes about our opinions on each sub-topic of discussion for each piece we were discussing. So if we were going to approach a critique from a like/dislike, we would all come into it with a short list of the things we liked/disliked the most on every single point, and would try to make sure each of those was covered. I find it's easy to read a piece and have a vague opinion about it, and then get into a critique group and just kind of go along with what someone else is saying and not contribute much, honestly. Having those written notes beforehand made for a much richer experience all around. ALSO. As long as it's not overwhelming negative, I love listening to people talk about my writing, so I dunno what's up with people just tuning other people out during critique groups. It's soooooooo flattering that they are giving you this time and effort and attention. Bask in it. BASK IN IT.
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Nov 24, 2015 08:20
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Sitting Here posted:I'd like some fictional advice please There’s no such thing as “being a writer.” THERE IS ONLY WRITING. AND HAVING WRITTEN, I GUESS. Going to write soon definitely doesn’t count. Therefore, you must write. More. Learning how you, YOURSELF can get words on the page is one of the biggest parts of learning to write. IT’S ALL ABOUT WHAT WORKS FOR YOU There’s no one magical perfect solution that universally gets everyone to write more. You’ve got to figure out what’s going to work for you. I keep repeating this thought over and over about everything because it’s true. The following are some techniques that have worked for other people, and which you should maybe try. Trying things is important. Don’t just dismiss them out of hand because you think they won’t work for you. Just keep trying things. Over and over again. Maybe you need to combine a few. Maybe you will invent your own and share it with all of us. Maybe something will work for a while and then stop. At that point, try something else. I know someone who did great with pomodoro for several months, then it quit working and he discovered that changing locations worked great. Never give up!
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Dec 4, 2015 00:08
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Shageletic posted:Cool post! Here's a quick question: what's the difference between fantasy genre and young adult? Is there one? Its hard to think that fantasy can be literary or mature enough to not qualify as YA, but I'm not exactly an expert here. .......... There's no precise definition of fantasy, but roughly any fiction that contains unrealistic elements explained by "magic" of some sort. They can involve pretty much any other themes, regardless of maturity level, and be of any literary level. There are fantasy novels that include drug addiction, graphic sex, complex political plots, violence, what-have-you. Although to be fair, there are also YA novels including some of those, too. Usually not graphic sex or violence, though. One of the most popular fantasy series in recent years is GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire, and I really don't think anyone can reasonably argue that it is YA. Ditto China Mieville's Bas-Lag books. YA is fiction aimed at readers and featuring characters roughly 14-18 years of age, of any genre. It doesn't have anything to do with fantasy whatsoever, except that some YA novels happen to also be fantasy novels. No one can suggest that something like Eleanor and Park, for example, is fantasy. Furthermore, literary-ness has nothing to do with something being YA or not. Bourne Identity, DaVinci Code, The Stand, whatever other genre novel you want to think of aren't "literary," but they sure as hell aren't YA. Polarizing though it maybe, Catcher in the Rye is arguably YA, as are the classics Alice in Wonderland and Oliver Twist. Nor literary-ness have anything to do with being "fantasy." If you want to accept Magical Realism under the umbrella of fantasy, then I don't think anyone will have much trouble accepting Gabriel Garcia Marquez as adequately "literary" for nearly any purpose that requires a high degree of literary-ness. If not, we can always discuss whether or not the Epic of Gilgamesh, Beowulf, The Odyssey, or A Midsummer's Night Dream count as fantasy. Or whether or not Tolkien counts as "literary." Or if The Hobbit is YA. Someone else might have some other examples of potentially "literary" fantasy to throw in the ring, but since "literary enough to pull it out of the realm of YA" is a concept that makes no sense to me, I'm not sure what those would be. Personally, Lord of the Rings is sufficiently If anyone wants to get into a debate about my definition of "fantasy," just know in advance that I'm not saying it's actually definitive or anything, just adequate enough to differentiate it from YA, because .... Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 09:27
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Shageletic posted:From the tenqueries twitter page. You're not supposed to be sending inquiries in that are in Word? No, a query should be an email with the query in the body of the email, and it should be short. See http://queryshark.blogspot.com for a bunch of advice on how to write query letters from an agent.
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Dec 11, 2015 09:31
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Shageletic posted:Thanks for the replies, the question came from seeing some of those queries from editors asking for YA with a fantastical twist to them. These might be referring to contemporary YA books, with small fantastic elements, kind of like magical realism. I haven't seen many of these, and can't think of any. I'll dig through Goodreads. Or they might be requests for YA fantasy, a well established genre, which is an overlap between YA (aimed at the "young adult" market) and Fantasy (containing the fantastical twist). Popular recent examples include: Throne of Glass Series by Sarah J. Maas Lunar Chronicles Series by Marissa Meyer (Although this one is also sci-fi and dystopian....) Uprooted by Naomi Novik Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard A Court of Thrones and Roses also by Sarah J. Maas An Ember in the Ashes by Sabaa Tahir Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo (author of the best-selling Grisha series) The Wrath and the Dawn by Renee Ahdieh These are the books are from the Goodreads 2015 Choice Awards - Best Young Adult Fantasy Books Top 20 (whatever that's worth), that I have read. I've also read the first books in two other of the top 20 series, but I (conveniently?) don't consider them fantasy. I don't know if that makes me an expert, but if you have any questions about YA fantasy, I am definitely willing to talk about it FOREVER. AND EVER. (p.s. knowing about/reading in the genre you want to write in is important. Also fun! Like, why are so many characters named Raffe right now??? I take it from your question you are not interested in this genre, though.) Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 10:40
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Mycroft Holmes posted:So, I have a strange request. I suffer from dysgraphia, a writing disorder. However, I very much wish to write some of the, admittedly lovely, sci-fi stories I have been compiling in my head for a decade. Does anyone know how I would get in touch with a collaborative partner to work on something like this? What do you expect your collaborative partner to do? If you only need someone to take dictation, then you can probably just find someone on one of the freelance sites or craigslist. You can find copyeditors to fix any grammar problems the same way. Expect to pay. Family members might also be willing to take this on.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:05
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Gorefluff posted:To the story? Not at all really. To the flavour and setting there are nods here and there, some references to the "Ancients", some odds and ends like plastic bowls showing up (even a planet-wiping asteroid or volcano wouldn't be able to completely destroy millions of tons of plastic goods worldwide), but the story is more about the main characters trying to rescue their people from an opposing warring tribe. Just remove the irrelevant plastic bowls and make it historical fiction.
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Jan 14, 2016 11:38
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angel opportunity posted:Going against the grain here, but how many novels have you finished? I agree with this sentiment. Actually, I'm starting to think the best advice is to just write three novels as best you can with minimal feedback, toss them out, then two, get some feedback, edit them up, toss them out, then start for real. I dunno.... Anyway, yes, to some extent you have to "cherry pick" which advice you take from your beta-readers, because you are the writer. Brandon Sanderson said he listens to about 1/3 of what his semi-pro writing group tells him. When we had a writing group, I used that as a guide. Or just a reminder that I didn't have to do what everyone told me. Mostly my guide was that good feedback really "clicked" for me. Someone would say something that clarified a problem I had only felt vaguely uneasy about, or gave me a real "a ha!" moment. The point of feedback isn't to make the suggested changes. You can't let a few other random people tell you how to write your book. On the other hand, there's no point in getting feedback if you're just going to ignore it either. The point is to give you an outside perspective to think about. They say you don't have enough description? Okay, go look at your work and think about it from the perspective of someone who hasn't read it. Have you included enough information? Is the prose too sparse? That's up to you. Think about it. If you want to know what is demanded by the published market or whatever, don't look at what your beta-readers say, go read the published books. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 08:30
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magnificent7 posted:I think I'm one of the few here who values beta readers/writers groups. What the gently caress? Nearly everyone, if not literally everyone in this thread, and definitely everyone who has specifically responded to HandsomeMrFooFoo has said that beta readers and/or writers group have value. In fact, one of the loving RESOUNDING MESSAGES of this thread is that EVERYONE SHOULD GET CRITICISM ALWAYS. It's something we say over and over again. And you're one of the assholes who dismisses criticism as "you don't get it man" every loving time, until you finally drag your head out of your own goddamn rear end. And every loving time, we're all glad that you do. Because we're masochists or something, I don't know. But seriously, gently caress you for saying you're one of the few here who values beta readers when so many people here put effort into reading and critiquing other writers' work. That's loving bullshit.
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Jan 17, 2016 12:12
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A long time ago, on a page far away, someone asked for advice about physical descriptions and I found some in various books I had laying around. I just started reading Tale of Two Cities, and have I found some more super-good descriptions that I thought were worth sharing.Charles Dickens posted:Except on the crown, which was raggedly bald, he had stiff, black hair standing jaggedly all over it, and growing downhill almost to his broad, blunt nose. It was so like smith's work, so much more like the top of a strongly spiked wall than a head of hair, that the best of players at leap-frog might have declined him, as the most dangerous man in the world to go over.  Second one is long, but worth it, IMO Charles Dickens posted:The Concord bed-chamber being always assigned to a passenger by the mail, and passengers by the mail being always heavily wrapped up from head to foot, the room had the odd interest for the establishment of the Royal George, that although but one kind of man was seen to go into it, all kinds and varieties of men came out of it. Consequently, another drawer, and two porters, and several maids, and the landlady, were all loitering by accident at various points of the road between the Concord and the coffee-room, when a gentleman of sixty, formally dressed in a brownout of clothes, pretty well worn, but very well kept, with large square cuffs and large flaps to the pockets, passed along on his way to breakfast. Isn't that just delightful?! For the most part, you can't really get away with this kind of description these days, but I still think it's useful (in addition to being delightful) to modern authors. Probably the most notable difference between Dickens and most contemporary stories is his use of the third-person omniscient POV (though you see it occasionally, for example The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland in a Ship of Her Own Making). The omniscient point-of-view is criticized for distancing readers from the action, for being confusing, and for encouraging embarrassing foibles such as the infamous "dear reader," where the author directly addresses the audience (although that temptation exists in first-person narratives as well). On the other hand, it gives you a great deal of freedom, because you can show what anyone or everyone is thinking whenever you want. Having read only a handful of the classics, I humbly beg anyone more familiar to chime in, but I know that the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Bible, and the Illiad and Odyssey are all in the omniscient point-of-view. I do think the preference, if not the concept, of a limited point of view, is relatively recent. Again, I beg any expert on said subject to post a lot about it. Aaaaaanyway, This scene: Look at how well he's set up an opportunity to give the description. It combines setting (a well-staffed hotel) with precise observation of human nature (curiosity and strategic "accidental" positioning to gratify it). Really, Dickens is positively breath-taking when it comes to human nature. Plus, it provides a much better opportunity for giving an objective description of the character, vs. the character himself looking in the mirror (far more common in published books than you might think, given its disparagement amongst writing advice forums), or being observed by another character. For example, it's unlikely that this man himself would think to himself "my calves are quite sexy for my age, which is why i buy only the finest stockings--finer than all the rest of my clothes in fact!" And it would also be a very particular kind of person who would note that about someone else. Unless you are reading Regency-era romances, in which case such observations are common-place, but chances are you are not. But seriously, what conclusions would you draw about a character if s/he noticed someones socks and drew sweeping conclusions from them?* And for use of simile. Maaaaaaan oh man, those similes! They are really laid on thick in a way that I 'm not sure many readers would appreciate these days. But on the other hand, once you are primed for Dickens, aren't they lovely? And he goes on with it--the oceanic description of his cuffs is reflective of his presence in the seaside town of Dover, which itself gets an amazing description a few paragraphs later. Also, when I read this book in high school, I remember the teacher making quite the big deal out of a "golden thread" running throughout it, and I think that our bank clerk, with his fine flaxen wig that appears to be made out of silk rather than hair, may be the symbolic start of it. Quite good, don't you think? *It occurred to me while writing this that I actually have a number of observations about socks: 1) my boyfriend wears exclusively white athletic socks, and due to his height and extreme thinness, his jeans are nearly always an inch too short at least ( I am slowly secretly replacing them with well-fitted jeans), so if he sits down, you can see far too much of them. On the other hand, all he ever wears is jeans and hoodies and sneakers, and it's San Francisco, so it's fine. ish. 2) I hand-knit a pair of socks for my boyfriend to wear around the house and they ended up being far too small in my opinion, but he claims to like them and wears them. I have no idea if he is sincere or not. 3) One of my boyfriend and my's favorite movies is Brain Candy, in which there is a joke about the rear end in a top hat CEO demanding that his employees roll out a giant carpet that matches his socks every day. 4) I once went to court with a sleazy landlord who wore a white suit with a white shirt, white alligator shoes, a teal tie, and teal socks. It looked loving amazing 5) I once worked with an extremely dapper dude who loved mixing and matching the unfortunately small number of accessories available to fashionable men, and who thus always wore amazingly classy socks or no socks at all. (Look at some men's fashion blogs if this doesn't make sense to you. Then be like "what the gently caress, this is duuuuuuuumb.") What conclusions do you draw from that, eh?
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Feb 6, 2016 13:04
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change my name posted:FYAD jokes aside, has anyone in this thread written YA before? SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Paging DocK to fiction advice. Paging DocK to fiction advice. What do you consider "writing" YA? I wrote about half a novel's worth of YA and then moved on to other projects b/c I don't know how to finish the plot, and life and stuff. I have a lot of thoughts about YA though, and read a ton of YA fantasy, so maybe I can still say something useful.
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Mar 26, 2016 05:29
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change my name posted:I was more interested in doing a YA sci-fi (like Armada, but good) but sure, I'd be willing to hear what you think. Well, as always the first step is to read books in your genre. Have you done that? This post makes me think you just read Armada and thought "come on, even I can do better than this!" which is maybe a decent motivator, but won't really get you anywhere. It's most likely to lead to a boring re-tread of the same stuff. Also, Armada is a pretty specific kind of book, not only YA sic-fi, but also a bit of a parody of the genre, I'm pretty sure. Is that what you want to write? Or just YA sci-fi? There are a few other books that look similar: The Rest of Us Just Live Here, by Patrick Ness Steelheart, by Brandon Sanderson (subversion of the super-hero genre, set in a futuristic world) Redshirts, by John Scalzi (not technically YA, but not far off in terms of themes, style, etc.) and some classics: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Series, by Douglas Adams (pretty much can't discuss comedic sci-fi without throwing this in there) The Last Starfighter (this is a movie, but it's the inspiration for Armada) So yeah, read. Did you have a specific question or anything?
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Mar 27, 2016 01:29
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change my name posted:I have actually read/seen all of these! But no, I just wanted to know if anyone here had successfully written YA before and had some definite don'ts to point out. * Don't make your protag under 16 * Don't make your protag over-reliant on adults (general rule is that "adults are the enemy" -- remember how much adults sucked when you were a teen? yeah) * Don't make your characters too immature and don't talk down to the reader (teens take themselves seriously and basically believe they are all grown-up) * Don't write a bad, boring story
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Mar 27, 2016 05:04
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Ziji posted:Looking for a bit of general advice for a first time writer. I have written short stories before as a kid, but this is my first story I have written with any serious intent to finish. Some days I would get on a writing kick and spend a few hours starting something, it would grow to a thousand words or so and then I never finish it or I delete it because I don't like it. I also have a LOT of trouble with plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue. Most stories I had written contain no dialogue because I find it hard to bridge conversations in writing. Another issue I find myself having is that when I write, I usually make it up as I go along instead of having a "blueprint" I follow. This feels natural to me, but I feel like it sometimes leads to entire paragraphs of pointless information or fluff that ultimately doesn't make the cut and I've wasted a bunch of time. From this it sounds like you are struggling with the very basics of story-telling. No worries, pretty much everyone has been there. One of the best things you can do is read a whole bunch of great short stories. If you like sci-fi/fantasy there are tons of online mags you can read for free. If you like more literary stuff, someone else in this thread will come along and recommend something, I'm sure. I also think there are lots of recommendations in the thread already, but it's a huge thread. I'd at least check out the first few pages. The OP also has a lot of great suggestions for the three things you mentioned (plot structuring, excessive exposition, and dialogue), and there are tons of further discussions on those topics in this thread. Poke around a bit and you can probably find a huge amount of info. It sounds like in addition to reading, you need to practice a lot more. If you struggle with dialogue, write more dialogue, etc. Read, think about what you've read. Write, think about what you've written. What's the difference? There is nothing wrong with writing as you go along. The secret to that (not really a secret) is that you must then go back and edit. Ditto with "deleting everything because you don't like it." When you don't like a part of a story, FIX IT. Don't try to learn how to write perfectly on the first draft, learn how to edit yourself. You have too much exposition? Look at it, think, and figure out what you can cut. No big deal that you wrote too much in the first place. Something is hosed up about your plot? figure out what it is, and think about how to fix it.
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Jun 1, 2016 21:59
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Brock Broner posted:Hey all, what was that short story publication requirement subscription website? Is that still a legitimate source? I haven't seen it mentioned in quite a while. I think you are referring to https://duotrope.com. It is still good. There is also the submission grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com), which is free. I'm not sure if duotrope offers more functionality or data to justify the subscription cost.
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Jun 4, 2016 12:00
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Obliterati posted:On agent chat, I guess I've got the dumbest question possible: how do you find one, and then actually get them to represent you? I've seen big long lists of agents in places but I don't have the foggiest clue how to sift the wheat from the chaff. Edit: rather than empty quoting myself, here's a more substantial description I put together for the next thread: How do you get this sweet sweet publishing deal?? Most of the time, you have to get an agent. Every now and then, you can submit a manuscript directly to the publisher. Some of the romance imprints take unsolicited manuscripts all the time, and I know Tor accepted them for a brief period at least once. Not sure if that’s something they open on a regular basis. You can look up the imprints in your genre, then look at the internet to see what they accept. For example, here is what Penguin Random House has to say: http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/faqs/#manuscripts-how-do-i-submit-my-manuscript-or-abstract-to-penguin-random-house-for-publication-2. DAW, one their sci-fi/fantasy imprints accepts unsolicited submissions. But it’s not the imprint that publishes Terry Brooks, Jim Butcher, Laurel K. Hamilton, or China Mieville. It is the one that publishes Patrick Rothfuss though! Anyway, generally speaking you have to get an agent. How do you get an agent? VERY CAREFULLY. http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/for-authors/writer-beware/agents/ It’s actually not terribly difficult to find a legit agent. Basically, avoid anyone who charges. For anything. Including referring you to paid services such as editors. Agents make money by selling books to publishers, not by charging authors. They get a percentage of the royalties. Finding an agent you want (and who wants you) is harder. You must find an agent who represents the kind of book you have written. You must have already finished your book and made it as good as you possibly can. Only then can you start looking for an agent. Do NOT query agents if you haven’t finished a manuscript or if you only have a first (or even second) draft. Make that poo poo good poo poo. There are a few ways of finding appropriate agents to submit to: 1) look in the acknowledgments section of books in your genre. Authors generally thank their agent. 2) Directories such as Agent Query (http://www.agentquery.com) also have listings. You can try looking in your local library for copies of their yearly books instead of paying for their online services or buying the books yourself!! 3) There are occasionally events on twitter where agents post what they are looking for. Always check the agents website and look at: 1) recent clients and sales 2) whether they are accepting new clients 3) their querying guidelines (make sure you follow these to the letter!) The next step is querying the agents you’ve found. You can query more than one agent at once, and you probably should because turn-around times aren’t great. Queries are typically very short emails intended to tempt the agent into reading a few sample chapters of your book, but see above regarding always reading specific querying guidelines and following them to the absolute letter. A good guide to querying is http://queryshark.blogspot.com. It’s run by a literary agent and has hundreds of examples of query letters critiqued and improved. After you get an agent, they sell your book to a publishing house. Hopefully. Frankly, I don’t know much about that. Also, you write a second novel and they try to sell that to publishers, too. Once your book is bought by a publisher, the editing/revising process starts. You get a bunch of notes and have to make a bunch of changes and it totally freaks you out. That’s what I’ve heard. Also: General Battuta posted:
Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 07:47
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C7ty1 posted:So okay, this is pretty unashamedly about TD, so yeah yeah, whatever. Too late for this round of Thunderdome, but I made a pretty comprehensive post about my idea process earlier in the thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3495955&pagenumber=160&perpage=40#post450873749 (good posts by other people around this one, too) Not exactly the same, but I also made this (big) post about how I take those ramblings and make them into a coherent story (and I think someone earlier was asking about plotting without outlining, which is how I do it): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3495955&pagenumber=96&perpage=40#post432690326
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Jun 7, 2016 09:05
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spectres of autism posted:whats some good advice for someone who wants to write fiction? Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Welcome to DocKloc's One Stop Shop for Writing Advice
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Jun 7, 2016 22:24
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magnificent7 posted:Let's talk about CHARACTER AGENCY. This is great, and you make some especially good points about how to take criticism, which I think is an important skill for all writers to learn. You don't have to agree with all criticism, but if you dismiss it without attempting to understand it, you are missing out on a chance to improve.
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Jun 12, 2016 07:49
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Halbey posted:On a similar note to the most recent discussion, how do you go about revising a complete novel draft? Do you read the whole thing and markup small and large changes? Do you start over but keep chunks you like? I have been struggling with this for a long time (in part because of fits and starts, but also b/c I wasn't sure how to wrap my head around such a big piece of writing). I think that this process, like ALL editing, is going to end up being very individualized. What has kinda been working for me is the following: 1) Read and make notes on the big things that need to be changed (plot meandering, characters behaving inconsistently, characters being annoying when you didn't mean them too, etc.). I paid someone else to do this for me, and don't regret it. She made suggestions that I might not have noticed myself. If you have someone else who is willing to read it, get notes from them, too. 2) Figure out how you are going to make the changes you want. Do you need to change a character's decision? Modify a subplot? These might be pretty big changes. Figure out how they will all work together. I ended up cutting several scenes and adding new ones. For this I just made a note in Scrivener "probably delete" and for new scenes, a blank scene with a short note describing what needed to happen. I have scene notes like this for every scene. I don't think most people do, so YMMV. 3) Write new scenes, make big changes in existing scenes (big change = action happens different, character makes different decision/has different reaction). Basically, you want to get every scene to happen the way it's supposed to, even if the words aren't right yet. What I have just figured out works for me is to take ALL my various scene notes for a scene (which have invariably been added to as time went by and I had new ideas) and organize them into a single coherent scene description. This is the blue print for the scene and the scene needs to include every part of it. Rewriting one scene usually results in new notes for other scenes, too.... Figuring out how to accomplish 2 and 3 is what has been making this really difficult for me. I think what I have just described will work for me long-term. 4) Make the words right. Dialogue flows, action is well-described, atmosphere is developed, stylistic choices are made. 5) Make the words extra-right. Tweak, Tweak, Tweak. Good time to read things out loud to check sentence flow. 6) Proof-read. Of course, you should correct any spelling/punctuation/grammar mistakes you see as you go along, but now's the time to really pay attention and double check! This is pretty close to the process I posted about for shorter stories earlier: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3495955&pagenumber=158&perpage=40#post450390915
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Jun 22, 2016 00:49
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MockingQuantum posted:I have what is likely a very stupid question about horror writing, but bear with me. I have a bunch of ideas for short horror stories, but none of them are intrinsically all that frightening/suspenseful/terrifying. Is it possible that I could craft them to be any or all of the above as I move through drafts and edit them, or is an unfrightening core idea never going to be very bone-chilling? I'm planning on writing all of my ideas anyway, since I'm pretty new to writing seriously and need the experience, but I kinda want to know what I should be shooting for. Consider writing them as stories that aren't horror stories.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:24
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neongrey posted:On the one hand, "you have no idea what you're talking about" is never an appropriate response to crit. On the other hand "your story about corruption in an organized religion seems pretty down on priests, you should include at least one nice priest, just like how one should include a woman so one's story doesn't appear sexist" is pretty up there as bad crit goes. I disagree. Sometimes "you have no idea what you're talking about" is an a completely appropriate (and accurate) response to a crit. Now, I don't think anyone should just dismiss a critique out of hand because they don't like it. And if you're dismissing ALL negative critiques out of hand, then.... you have a real problem. But I think it's fine to look at feedback, think about it, and then absolutely reject it. You don't have to make changes based on everyone's feedback. In fact, I think one of the most important things about learning how to get criticism, is learning how to decide which of it is actually useful to you and letting the rest of it go without throwing a big tantrum about people not understanding your genius. Unless by "response" you meant actually saying to that person's face, because yeah, that's not nice. And you want to include at least one nice thing when you respond to critiques, so you don't seem pretty down on all critiquers. This is why there's only two things to say to say to someone who took the time to give you feedback: 1) Thank you. 2) Can you clarify/expand on what you meant when you said XYZ
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Oct 18, 2016 00:46
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Ignoring criticism is different from arguing with it. I don't recommend the latter, ever.
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Oct 18, 2016 01:43
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I'm finally getting around to laughing a lot about how that person apparently thought if you include a woman in your story it won't be sexist any more.
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Oct 18, 2016 05:47
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neongrey posted:
Wait, P. C. Cast is in your crit group?????
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Oct 18, 2016 06:11
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vintagepurple posted:Hey fiction thread. I've been trawling through this thread off-and-on and am still a good 2 years behind, but I wanted to say, at the tail end of a lovely relationship I drunkenly stumbled upon this thread and somehow it convinced me to take writing, an old dream, seriously instead of writing myself off (lol). I've been doing Writing Excuses prompts, flash fiction, and trying to hit 1000 words a day. The occasional short story, trying to work myself up to being decent, and mulling book ideas once I feel I can tackle that. Somehow my love of writing and english has translated into finding my calling and now I'm poised to actually finish my degree and then either tackle a law school or medieval lit academia track later on. This is after six years of job-and-school drifting and being inspired and driven is foreign to me. So thanks thread. Heck yeah, glad this thread has helped, and welcome to writing fiction. Congrats especially on building a daily writing habit. Consistent effort and practice is one of the most important parts of writing. Writing can be scary, especially when you're showing it to other people, but it's also very rewarding. The tone of Thunderdome crits can be a little uh.... over the top? But they are very helpful. I've improved a lot from getting honest feedback on my stories, even though sometimes I have to take a minute to cry inside when I read them. Seriously though, they get easier to take every time. Hope you enjoy the 'dome and stick around 
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Oct 25, 2016 19:55
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bromplicated posted:Do you ever pick up an old, unfinished manuscript from say, a year or two back, and finish it off? Maybe it's something you still think about from time to time. Or maybe it's something you found in a drawer and thought to yourself, "this is isn't so bad, why didn't I finish this?" You don't have to finish everything you start, but if you're not finishing anything, you have a serious problem. I have plenty of old ideas that are in the "someday I'd like to" pile until I finish up my current stuff (which tbh has been in the "serious problem" stage until a month ago or so). I think it's tempting to switch to a new project when you've hit a hard point. You're excited about the new thing, and you haven't thought about it enough to hit a hard point yet. Of course, once you get started.... There are difficult parts to struggle through with most writing projects you'll undertake. The value in finishing what you've started isn't in adhering to some rigorous moral value about "never quitting," but in learning to navigate your way through being stuck, not knowing what to write, needing to resolve conflicting events in your book, etc. If you jump ship every time things get hard, you're not going to learn that. And chances are you aren't going to magically find a project with no difficulties at all, either. You'll just keep going from project to project. On the other hand, if you get completely bogged down in a project that is going nowhere for you, and stubbornly refuse to change course then... you might just be throwing more time down a bottomless well (see: the sunk cost fallacy). There is no hard rule that is correct 100% of the time. You've got to figure out if diving into a new project is just avoiding hard but necessary work, or abandoning a sinking ship. If you are ready for a new project, there's no problem with going back to an old one. Why would there be? There's no problem with moving on to something completely new if you want, either. Don't let a drawer of old notebooks be a millstone around your neck. When you're ready to start fresh, your options are as wide as the sky.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:35
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change my name posted:Have any of you ever written a novel before without much planning or forethought before? How did it turn out? My last book was overly structured and I'm trying something similar to what McBride describes in this article this time around (just throwing myself into it with a very vague outline): I have done this 2.5 times and all times it came out badly. Different things work for different people, some people do great writing "by the seat of their pants" (or "pantsing"). I think for most people it's some sort of combination of the two that ends up working out best. Here's what happened when I went back to clean up a poorly planned novel: Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I finished a scene-by-scene summary of my novel, woo. It ended up clocking in at 13,705 words, but more importantly it is finished! Don't even ask about my Nano novel (I'd say 90% of it would have to be thrown away if it were to be salvaged at all....like, less than what's left inside of Robocop). On the other hand, I can't "outline" to save my life. Writing a scene-by-scene summary like the one I just did is about the only thing that seems to work for me. I would say I kept about 1/3 of the 69k I wrote without much structure, and the parts I kept were the parts that had the most fleshed out structure. When I'm writing out a scene summary, I usually also start writing dialogue and sometimes action, all of which is best thrown into a notes file until later. I think. That's what I'm going to try next time. BUT You should definitely try it. If you don't try it, you won't know if it will help you or not. With writing you should just try everything always. Worst case scenario is you spend time writing something that doesn't work. If you're already struggling, that's basically nothing worse than where you're already at.
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Nov 1, 2016 07:51
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Daphnaie posted:So I had a question about using present tense, particularly in third person. People have been complaining about the "alarming increase" in present tense books since 1987. Here's an article going into that history and reasons why present tense might just be okay: http://lithub.com/in-defense-of-the-present-tense/ . A good reason identified there: half the Man Booker prize nominees in 2010 were written in present tense. Another good argument that it's not going to "keep you from getting published": https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/present-tense. Guess how many of these books are major best sellers? A lot. You'll notice a bunch of them are YA speculative fiction which a bunch of people like to dismiss as "trend-chasing hack" work no matter what. Also, Goodreads lists tend to lean far more towards YA than literary fiction/classics/even "adult" books. If you read a bunch of these, they are in first-person present tense which is far more common than 3rd person. There are some notable not-YA books on the list: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest ; The Handmaid's Tale (Man Booker Prize nominee); All Quiet on the Western Front; The Night Circus; The Girl on the Train; Gone Girl; Rabbit, Run (National Book Award finalist); David Copperfield; A Visit From the Goon Squad (won a Pulitzer Prize, come on you assholes); Middlesex (another Pulitzer Prize winner). Some people say present tense is harder to do well. Some people say it's distracting. If you write a great book, people will read it regardless of tense. Write what works best for your story. Final note: Just because you start writing a novel in present tense doesn't mean you have to stick with it. You can go back and change it to past tense. I would actually recommend giving that a try with a few parts to see which you prefer. Obviously, the final book should almost certainly be in only one tense.
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Nov 8, 2016 07:12
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Look, we all know that there is some kind of continuum between writing solely to make money and solely to masturbate to your artistic fantasies or whatever. There's no need for people to flip out about it (in both directions) all the time. Wherever you find yourself on the continuum, fine. As long as you don't lie to yourself about it and then complain about not getting what you really want. >:-(
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Jan 6, 2017 05:03
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General Battuta posted:It's actually been going really well lately, I've just about finished a draft, but my total word count on this project over the past couple years is approaching the obscene figure of one point five million Congrats on getting into Year’s Best Science Fiction and Fantasy 2017, by the way!
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Jan 6, 2017 19:45
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General Battuta posted:Ha, that just goes to show how weird writing can be - that was one of my oldest stories, it got ripped up in critique and took me forever to sell. You really can't predict what people will like! So you've just got to keep doing the work and submitting. printing this post and framing it
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Jan 6, 2017 20:00
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