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Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam
Hey look the IFAB have revised the laws

quote:

A more simple structure - Law and Interpretation have been combined - all information for each Law is now in the same place and not in 2 different
parts of the Law book

Language and phraseology - the vocabulary has been reduced, unnecessary words and repetitions have been removed, contradictions have been resolved.

Updated content - many changes were needed for the Laws to be able to deal with modern football e.g. use of synthetic/artificial surfaces, drinks breaks for
health reasons in hot weather

Overall, more than 10,000 words have been removed from the Law and Interpretations sections

Going to start reading through it now but it looks like among the biggest changes will be a yellow rather than red card for certain DOGSO offenses, but this one is far more likely to come up in the kind of games I do:

quote:

Ball can be kicked in any direction at kick-off (previously had to go forward)


Edit:
A few of these items in the summary of law changes confuse me though, like "Players’ arms not considered when judging offside position (including goalkeeper)" - this has always been true. There are a lot of items like this; maybe it's because they're merging them into the Law from the I&G that they consider it a change?

Lamont Cranston fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 14, 2016

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Jhet
Jun 3, 2013

Lamont Cranston posted:

Hey look the IFAB have revised the laws


Going to start reading through it now but it looks like among the biggest changes will be a yellow rather than red card for certain DOGSO offenses, but this one is far more likely to come up in the kind of games I do:



Edit:
A few of these items in the summary of law changes confuse me though, like "Players’ arms not considered when judging offside position (including goalkeeper)" - this has always been true. There are a lot of items like this; maybe it's because they're merging them into the Law from the I&G that they consider it a change?

I think it's in response to offside being so difficult for TV commentators to understand. Clarity for clarity's sake is not always good, but in some cases it's useful. I just would hate for it to end up like the collegiate or high school rules books in the US. More clarity for the lawyers' sake than the players'.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam

Jhet posted:

I think it's in response to offside being so difficult for TV commentators to understand. Clarity for clarity's sake is not always good, but in some cases it's useful. I just would hate for it to end up like the collegiate or high school rules books in the US. More clarity for the lawyers' sake than the players'.

If so I can't wait for them to try and figure this out

quote:

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play or the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside their penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line point for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee’s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

(new text bold)

It really does seem (with the exception of things like the above) that most of these are about clarifying and making explicit things which were previously assumed (not being able to replace sent-off players is now finally part of the law!).

I have to say I'm thrilled that the I&G has been merged into the Law, if only for the sake of offside - no one ever bothered to look at the definitions of things like "gaining an advantage" and everyone had their own (wrong) idea about what it meant.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Glad they finally codified the kickoff thing, thus proving I was right to ignore it all these years :colbert:

I think the least friendly change is going to be mandatory caution to GK for encroaching on a penalty kick. That is going to make calling 'keeper off their line even more rare.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Things I noticed:

Somebody finally noticed that the laws didn't say "a player who is sent off during the match may not be replaced" and fixed it! It only took twenty years.

You know, for something that was supposed to make the language better, there's still a couple of pieces of complete crap in there. Like this.

quote:

In particular, it must be clear whether, if the referee is unable to start or continue, the fourth official or the senior assistant referee or senior additional assistant referee takes over

"It must be clear which official takes over if the referee is unable to start or continue."

Or this pile of old toss.

quote:

[If] an extra ball, other object or animal enters the field of play during the match, the referee must:

stop play (and restart with a dropped ball) only if it interferes with play unless the ball is going into the goal and the interference does not prevent a defending player playing the ball, the goal is awarded if the ball enters the goal (even if contact was made with the ball) unless the ball enters the opponents’ goal

Apparently this means

quote:

If something/someone (other than a player) touches a ball as it goes into the goal the referee can award the goal if the touch had no impact on the defenders

Why the need for the ridiculous run-on sentence? Why not just use the explanation of the Law change as the actual Law change? Forest, trees. It's so good they decided they wanted it in both Law 3 and Law 5.

One-armed advantage signal, I can hear the old-school assessors howling with disgust from here. Nice to know they still can't figure out a graphical representation of the difference between pointing for a goal kick and pointing for a penalty. (But, that figure also appears to be wearing a classic 70s-style collar, which will go some way to making the assessor happy again.)

"Kicked and clearly moves." I'll be disappointed if there's not a story worth hearing behind shoving those extra two words in.

Drop balls now have to touch two players before someone can score! What an elegant little solution to someone who fucks up passing it back to the keeper, and we need a sweepstake on how long it'll be before some idiot keeper dives anyway and creates a goal by touching the ball.

This crappy sentence survives another year! They've changed every other sodding thing, but this is apparently still fit for purpose. It's only the most important law in the book.

quote:

A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line, between the goalposts and under the crossbar, provided that no offence or infringement of the Laws of the Game has been committed by the team scoring the goal.

Cue hordes of temporally-minded pedants asking "what, ever? at any time in the match? at the exact moment when the whole of the ball crosses the whole of the line? why no timeframe?"

Things from the penalty thing: reduce-to-equate now applies if someone gets injured/sent off during it and can't continue. There's a lot of new language in there; it sounds very paranoid about players trying to sneak off and back again, which makes me think someone somewhere has been trying to play silly buggers.

We now know that a player has to put part of himself right across the halfway line before he can be offside! Referees' society meetings worldwide will save a total of at least 4,000 hours per year not arguing about when exactly you're in the opponents' half of the field. And another 1,000 hours saved on arguments about "if a player runs back from offside and plays the ball in his own half, do you give the free-kick in his own half or at the position in which he was offside?"

The committee appears to be a big fan of unwieldy Germanic run-on sentences. Let's have a look at the members. Five native English speakers, one native Spanish speaker...and, quelle surprise, two German-speaking Swiss. And so we end up with cobblers like this:

quote:

A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee’s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

Why is this not a bulleted list? Or at least throw some commas in there. Far too many sentences with a million ands and buts and excepts and in which cases that cause a problem although where they do cause a problem they should be dealt with appropriately and a report made to the appropriate authority.

There's another game attempt to make players stop yelling for "obstruction!" and expecting an indirect free-kick on page 82 (impedes "with contact" and impedes "without contact"), which of course will not work.

I like the way they've tried to keep the triple sanction for professional fouls without actually using the phrase "professional foul". There's no good way to do it, but that's probably about as well as it can be done. I give it two weeks before some idiot manager starts whinging to the press about something related to it, though.

I'd just like to finish by saddling up an old hobby horse.

quote:

If, when a free kick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play

So I'm a defender, I see someone lining up for a quick free kick, and according to the law as written, I don't have any duty to retreat 10 yards and can instead move to intercept a pass/block a shot, as long as I don't do it obviously enough that the taker stops and appeals that I've stopped him taking the kick at all? Why are they apparently making it harder for a team to benefit from being awarded a free kick? This is the stupidest idea they've had since the four-step law for goalkeepers, but fortunately referees appear to be refereeing it much the same way as the four-step law (by ignoring it until it went away).

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam
I have to say, the only change I really hate so far is this:

quote:

Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs.

Not the change itself, but the fact that after years of being pedantic and explaining that the term didn't appear in the Laws and that the proper term actually fit the offense much better, they went and loving put the word "handball" in there. The bastards.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


I think the best part about all of this is that the law changes will go into effect June 1st, so the new law about DOGSO will be in place in time for the Euros. :munch:

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat
well it's been the second weekend with the new changes in place.
And the US specific small sided games changes of the break out line.
Coaches are having a real hard time understanding this.

Personally I am a big fan of the smaller size goals. Since any direct kick was pretty much a free goal if the kicker was competent enough to put it it the top.

The amount of games being assigned is nuts.
Do you west coast guys get six plus games a day?

Jayou
Mar 14, 2007

Sparkly Vampires are Wrestlicious!
Mispost. Move along, nothing to see here...

Jayou fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Sep 26, 2016

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam

Lladre posted:

well it's been the second weekend with the new changes in place.
And the US specific small sided games changes of the break out line.
Coaches are having a real hard time understanding this.

Personally I am a big fan of the smaller size goals. Since any direct kick was pretty much a free goal if the kicker was competent enough to put it it the top.

The amount of games being assigned is nuts.
Do you west coast guys get six plus games a day?

We've delayed implementing the new LOTG until next season but we have started the new break-out line. The only thing I've had to explain a few times was that it's now the line for offside as well. Had a few goals which would have been well offside before, but generally speaking the coaches took it well when I reminded them.

I do wonder a bit about how much difference it's making; for goal kicks in particular the line is only a few yards back from the 18 so it's not really pushing anyone back all that far. I guess we'll see as the season goes on.

azathosk
Aug 20, 2006

Sup guys?
We had an incident in Tippeligaen that have caused som stir.

Two defending players was involved in a foul on the attacker inside the penalty-box. It was a penalty and a red card - but it wasn't clear actually which of the two players who should get it.

The ref consulted his linesman and asked both of the players who should have the red card (both could get it for the offence). None of them replied and the one they believe did the last tackle was sent off.

Now this have caused some discussion as the players believe it was stupid of the ref to ask the players about who should be sent off. The ref however believed this would be a great occasion for them to show "fair play".

I kind of like it. The ref knew that both could be sent off, but had to chose one of them. The one he sent off complained later that the other player was the one that commited the foul, while the ref claims that they had their chance to say which of the players they believed commited the foul.

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat

Lamont Cranston posted:

I do wonder a bit about how much difference it's making; for goal kicks in particular the line is only a few yards back from the 18 so it's not really pushing anyone back all that far. I guess we'll see as the season goes on.

The first week was bad for it in my area. The local club misread the guidelines and somehow thought the breakout line should go halfway between the penalty area and the center circle's closest point. It only made the difference of two yards but that's three four steps to an eight year old.

I do see a difference when it is a semi competent team. Getting the ball to outside the penalty area before the attacking team can get in your face, which is what would normally happen before. Everyone lined up on the penalty area waiting to intercept as soon as it crosses.

For the teams that can barely kick the ball forward it doesn't really help them.

Some teams you just can't help.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam

Lladre posted:

The first week was bad for it in my area. The local club misread the guidelines and somehow thought the breakout line should go halfway between the penalty area and the center circle's closest point. It only made the difference of two yards but that's three four steps to an eight year old.

I do see a difference when it is a semi competent team. Getting the ball to outside the penalty area before the attacking team can get in your face, which is what would normally happen before. Everyone lined up on the penalty area waiting to intercept as soon as it crosses.

For the teams that can barely kick the ball forward it doesn't really help them.

Some teams you just can't help.

So a month later and I definitely see the benefits now, when the line is marked and enforced correctly. I honestly used to see goal kicks as almost a punishment for some teams because they couldn't kick far enough to make a meaningful clearance, now they've got time to actually get the ball moving before the attackers can get in there. Problem is a lot of places still don't quite get where it's meant to go (did a tournament last weekend where the build-out line actually intersected the center circle somehow) but overall I think it's been beneficial.

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
what the gently caress rule are you guys talking about?

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam

JFairfax posted:

what the gently caress rule are you guys talking about?

US Soccer laid down a few new rules for U10 and below, of which one is the "build-out line". The line goes the width of the field and is placed halfway between the penalty area line and the halfway line. When the goalkeeper gains possession, or when there is a goal kick, the other team has to retreat behind that line until the ball is put into play again. It also replace the halfway line as the line behind which you cannot be offside.

The idea is to encourage passing play and building out from the back instead of just having them attempt long balls. Here's a decent video which shows it in use in Spain (looks like they place it in a slightly different spot but the concept is there):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvp_R1XwTn4

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat

Lamont Cranston posted:

US Soccer laid down a few new rules for U10 and below, of which one is the "build-out line". The line goes the width of the field and is placed halfway between the penalty area line and the halfway line. When the goalkeeper gains possession, or when there is a goal kick, the other team has to retreat behind that line until the ball is put into play again. It also replace the halfway line as the line behind which you cannot be offside.

The idea is to encourage passing play and building out from the back instead of just having them attempt long balls. Here's a decent video which shows it in use in Spain (looks like they place it in a slightly different spot but the concept is there):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvp_R1XwTn4

That is a odd place for sure. The field itself looks a lot bigger than the new USSF field sizes especially width wise.
I've been getting a lot of older kid games this month. I won't be reffing the little guys till next month.
Overall it's been a very positive change since the initial confusion wore off.

Argyle
Jun 7, 2001

Hi ref thread.

My social league put out an open call for referees. I emailed one of the league reps saying I have zero experience, but I want to get into refereeing. She wrote me back and offered me a game that night, starting in about 90 minutes :stare:

Turns out a ref had rolled his ankle that afternoon and had to bow out. But they must be pretty hard up for officials if they were going to hand a whistle to any yokel (me) who can correctly type an email address.

Anyway, looks like I'm reffing my first game in a week. It's an 8v8, low-competitive social league on half-fields. No AR's. FIFA rulebook, with the following addendums to accommodate the small fields and/or player safety:

- After gaining possession of the ball, goalies cannot play the ball past the center line.
- BUT: if the ball is passed back to the goalie, he CAN play the ball past the center line.
- Goalies cannot punt or drop kick
- No slide tackling, period. Direct FK for any slide tackle.
- Throw-ins can be kicked in.

Luckily it's not super intense. They mentioned something about training, but I haven't gotten any details. I'm hoping any difficult calls that come up have been covered in YATR.

Also, I guess I need to buy a whistle and shirt and wallet and all of that stuff. What gear does everybody like to use? I'm already overwhelmed by the variety of whistles on the market.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Welcome to the club, Argyle!

I use an Acme Cyclone as my primary whistle with a regular Fox 40 on the ring connected as a backup. My further backup to those two is an Acme Tornado. Most people around here use the Fox 40 (they are cheap and easy to find), so I try to avoid using it so my whistle sounds different from the nearby fields. Had a kid on a breakaway one time stop and let the ball roll and turn to yell because he thought I blew my whistle, but it was a call near the touchline on the other field.

Assuming you are in the US, you picked a good time to join up. The uniform just got changed. The new uniforms are supposed to be completely phased in by 2018.



What else... Cleats, I use Copa Mundial turf cleats because like 90% of my games nowdays are done on turf and/or bad fields that actual cleats would hurt me on.

Most of the stuff in YATR isn't probably going to come up, as fun as those situations are. It is absolutely good to know what to do in those situations, for sure, but more important is just basic foul recognition. The difficult calls will be the ones that live right in that grey area between foul/no foul or the area between yellow/red card.

Bio-Hazard
Mar 8, 2004
I HATE POLITICS IN SOCCER AS MUCH AS I LOVE RACISM IN SOCCER
The thread is back! Here's a couple tidbits:

STORYTIME

Tournament is U14 and below, but somehow I pick the best game of the entire tournament: U14 Boys Semifinal between seeds 2 and 3. Even better, these teams played each other the night before, and tied 2-2. Semifinals are awesome, because teams actually fight to get into the final, instead of just "not losing".

1 PI yellow card in the first half, 3 more yellows in the 2nd (UB, PI, UB) before a DOGSO yellow and game-deciding PK call with 10 minutes to go. Then a game-deciding non-PK call the other way immediately following the goal. 1 more yellow for dissent (6 total) and the coach calling me "shite" in a deep Scottish accent.

Then Wednesday I give out 3 reds and 8 yellows in two Over-40 1st division matches. Then Thursday I give out another red, then abandon the game with 5 minutes left after a player refuses to show ID after a yellow.

I have a lot of write-ups to do...

Argyle posted:

Hi ref thread...

It's an 8v8, low-competitive social league on half-fields. No AR's. EASY
- After gaining possession of the ball, goalies cannot play the ball past the center line. EASY
- BUT: if the ball is passed back to the goalie, he CAN play the ball past the center line. EASY
- Goalies cannot punt or drop kick EASY
- No slide tackling, period. Direct FK for any slide tackle. EASY
- Throw-ins can be kicked in. WHAT?!?!

Also, I guess I need to buy a whistle and shirt and wallet and all of that stuff. What gear does everybody like to use? I'm already overwhelmed by the variety of whistles on the market.

Ooh, ooh! Equipment check!
  • Coin: I have about a dozen from other states and soccer associations. I lost quite a few, though.
  • Two whistles: Fox 40 Pearl (in yellow) and Fox 40 Classic (in red). Many referees say the lower tone the Pearl makes is better.
  • Casio referee watch. Amazon sells these for cheap and they're made for referees.
  • Adidas MiCoach Smartwatch for my GPS and HR needs, because I like to monitor myself.
  • Adidas Mundial Team turf shoes or Copa Mundial cleats. I prefer Mundial Team over any other shoes, in any weather, period.
  • Official Sports Gear: Cards, Notebook with more cards, Shorts, Socks, Shirts, Sweatbands.
  • My ref bag is the Official Sports big rolling carry-on, soon to get a ref backpack, too.
  • I wear Adidas for undershirts, underwear, socks... and Under Armour shirts when it's cold. I "never" wear Adidas tights.
  • For the cold, I have a Mountain Wear beanie, a wool buff from REI, and REI gloves.
  • Metal Pilot ballpoint pen that I store in my sock, because I'm cool. :cool:
  • Cheap ball pump and gauge
  • The Laws of the Game book, the local Rules of Competition, and BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING

Bio-Hazard fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Jan 14, 2017

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum



I always enjoy storytime. That's one of my favorite threads over on BS. Here are my more memorable stories in the last year (it was mostly very boring games):

*I worked the 4A Boys HS final last spring in the middle. I was the last of 8 games that weekend and I gave the only spot kick. Clearly I am the only referee brave enough to call a penalty in a final :colbert: Kidding. I haven't gone back to watch the video yet but I may have missed an off the ball VC early during a substitution. Whoops :eng99: Assignor was happy with the performance. 5-0, easy game outside the last 10 minutes where the losing team just started fouling because they were pretty upset with how the game went.

*State cup. I had a U16 boys game. 2-1, leading team has been wasting time, as you'd expect. Losing teams players have been bickering about it. One started counting the 6 seconds aloud. I shouldn't have let that go but at the time I didn't see a tactful way to deal with it. I add on four minutes. Three minutes into the four, one of the players on the losing team commits DOGSO. Eff me. Way to get yourself suspended for your final group game and make me have to do paperwork for a game yall had already lost. :cripes: That was my first ever send off for DOGSO in the many years I've been doing this, strangely enough.

Argyle
Jun 7, 2001

chaoslord posted:

One started counting the 6 seconds aloud. I shouldn't have let that go but at the time I didn't see a tactful way to deal with it.

What is the best way to deal with this? I'm thinking back to Abby Wambach counting seconds at the ref in the Olympics (WWC? Maybe Olympics). The ref blew for six seconds and it was a big controversy.

Additionally... My league has no stoppage time. Strict 25 minute halves, 5 minute halftime, games start on the hour. Players are aware of this, and winning teams take their sweet time with restarts / boot every ball way out of bounds, because they know the clock has a hard end at 50'. What's a good way to deal with time wasting when I can't add more than 30 seconds, maybe a minute?

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Argyle posted:

What is the best way to deal with this? I'm thinking back to Abby Wambach counting seconds at the ref in the Olympics (WWC? Maybe Olympics). The ref blew for six seconds and it was a big controversy.

Additionally... My league has no stoppage time. Strict 25 minute halves, 5 minute halftime, games start on the hour. Players are aware of this, and winning teams take their sweet time with restarts / boot every ball way out of bounds, because they know the clock has a hard end at 50'. What's a good way to deal with time wasting when I can't add more than 30 seconds, maybe a minute?

What I have started doing for that now days is turning to the player in question, pointing to my watch, and saying "I've got the time, promise". Then immediately "KEEPER LETS GO". It seems to work well. It reminds them I am in charge, but also acknowledges that they have a semi valid complaint. The trick there obviously is you have to be able to add the time. If you're in a situation like yours where you can't really add time, you might have to skip the time part and when they get to "fouuuuuuuur" tell the Keeper to put it in play.

With your league in question, about the only option in the laws you have is to start cautioning for delaying the restart of play. But, you have to kind of take the temperature of the league. Is a caution there expected? If not, and you are the only one who does it, it can get you a bad rap even though you are the one technically right. At the end of the day, you want to referee the game the players expect. I watched a referee I really respect struggle in a couple of Hispanic adult amateur matches because he was one of those "I caution for players statuing 100% of the time." Two Minutes in, statue, caution. While correct in the laws, the players did not expect cautions for that either way, and it just led to a ton of dissent throughout. It's tough because obviously we want to eliminate the statuing but if both teams more or less accept it and think it's okay to do, suddenly he was the white guy who doesn't understand soccer and it can lead to problems.

The only other thing I can think of, if you are in great shape, is go with them to retrieve the ball if they're walking to go get it. Obviously don't touch the ball yourself, but a fly by and "come on, on a jog now" or a joke or something can do wonders.

Bio-Hazard
Mar 8, 2004
I HATE POLITICS IN SOCCER AS MUCH AS I LOVE RACISM IN SOCCER
Since the start of the year I've had 4 reds and 29 yellows. I think that's a personal record. My PR in cards in a day used to be 2R 7Y in two O-40 D1 matches. Now it's 3R 8Y in two O-40 D1 matches.

Funny story: I set both those records in games involving THE SAME sponsor, a popular Irish pub, but in different cities/leagues!

chaoslord posted:

Clearly I am the only referee brave enough to call a penalty in a final :colbert:

This is literally figuratively how I feel after every eventful game.

Argyle posted:

What is the best way to deal with this?

Ignore the player counting (unless it gets weird).
Let the keeper have more than six, everyone knows it (unless it gets weird).
If it's early and just a keeper habit, I vocalize "let's go, keep!" (but let them have more than six).
If it's late in the game and obvious, I let the keeper do it once, then next time I won't clear the area, standing next to them while they kick.
If it's getting to be annoying, or they don't get the point, I'll walk toward them and point at my watch and vocalize.
I haven't blown a six second violation in years...
... but I swear if they flaunt my lax interpretation of the rules, drat right I'll blow right at six.

Argyle posted:

My league has no stoppage time.

Cool. Draw a line in the sand, be consistent, (or as we're told, consistently inconsistent) and communicate when it's becoming time wasting. End the game on time and let the players deal with the rule, it's not your fault that games run on time.

I find that if you announce your displeasure at the first instance of something funky, people will generally accept the call.

Chaoslord, did you ever go for your state badge? I'm just waiting on getting assessments. In my heart I want to go ref track, but I make a good AR...

Bio-Hazard fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Jan 15, 2017

oliwan
Jul 20, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
why the gently caress do you have all of this official referee stuff in the USA? I played football in Sunday leagues al my life in Holland and Germany, and we always just had a guy reluctantly being the referee, or a dad. You don't get an actual ref until you are way high up the pyramid.

Argyle
Jun 7, 2001

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

oliwan posted:

why the gently caress do you have all of this official referee stuff in the USA? I played football in Sunday leagues al my life in Holland and Germany, and we always just had a guy reluctantly being the referee, or a dad. You don't get an actual ref until you are way high up the pyramid.

Having a trained, impartial referee makes the game better for everyone, I guess.

Bogan Krkic
Oct 31, 2010

Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

If you can't do, teach. Or in this case, referee.

Thel
Apr 28, 2010

oliwan posted:

why the gently caress do you have all of this official referee stuff in the USA? I played football in Sunday leagues al my life in Holland and Germany, and we always just had a guy reluctantly being the referee, or a dad. You don't get an actual ref until you are way high up the pyramid.

Because if you have a player or supporter of Team A make some dodgy calls while refereeing a game between Team A and Team B, it'd probably land up with lawyers getting involved.

Bogan Krkic
Oct 31, 2010

Swedish style? No.
Yugoslavian style? Of course not.
It has to be Zlatan-style.

Thel posted:

Because if you have a player or supporter of Team A make some dodgy calls while refereeing a game between Team A and Team B, it'd probably land up with lawyers getting involved.

lol

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013
The real reason is because they're paying for it.

The sanctioned leagues all have assignors who work with them. Then referees who want games work for those assignors. Some just want the money, some want the practice so they can get in good with the high school and collegiate assignors. Some want to get on a national referee track with an opportunity to do semi-pro+ games. Regardless of why, someone's going to pay you for your time in the US.

If you're playing in a pick up game in the US, chances are good that you won't have an actual referee unless you're paying for them via league fees.

oliwan
Jul 20, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
it is insane that you have "official“ refs in youth games at all, as well as in non-pro league games.

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

oliwan posted:

it is insane that you have "official“ refs in youth games at all, as well as in non-pro league games.

I've been playing soccer/football for almost thirty years and I honestly can't remember playing a league where the center referee wasn't an officially sanctioned referee who was being paid.

Fairly often the linesman were parents or something like that though.

My over-30 league uses a two referee system which honestly is pretty bad but they are fully sanctioned referees. A couple of the younger guys still do NCAA level matches. Funnily enough, they're the worst referees in the league.

iajanus
Aug 17, 2004

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When I was playing in the west of Sydney we paid for refs through our yearly fees but seldom got them since roughly 1000% of all games out there start and end with fights between players and spectators.

Now I play in a nicer part of Brisbane and we nearly always have refs (and sometimes a linesman!) What an age we live in.

Bio-Hazard
Mar 8, 2004
I HATE POLITICS IN SOCCER AS MUCH AS I LOVE RACISM IN SOCCER

oliwan posted:

it is insane that you have "official" refs in youth games at all, as well as in non-pro league games.

Youths or dads are usually solo refs on u-little games or rec league games, who have just passed the class.
Unaffiliated adult leagues either have solo players who aren't certified or just passed the class, or moonlighting refs.

Academy youth games usually have 3 refs over U-13, sometimes younger.
Affiliated adult games, at least here, are solo unless it's first division, where there are 3.
Anything 4th tier or above (NPSL + USASA + PDL) gets 4 refs, as do regional youth tournaments.

I don't play in leagues without a certified referee, those leagues are dangerous (though I play pick-up sometimes!)
However, I'm (unwisely) doing a ton of games for an unaffiliated league for the next 3 months, I hope I don't die!

Edit: Can we put the title the other way 'round? Like
The TRP Ref Thread: "It's when the ball is kicked!"
or
The TRP Ref Thread: Three Blind Mice

Bio-Hazard fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 17, 2017

Argyle
Jun 7, 2001

Reffed my first game last night!

TRIP REPORT:

- Awful, makeshift pitch. The touch lines were drawn with Port-a-Field tape, that wasn't anchored down at all. None of the lines were straight. They didn't even bother to draw a midfield line, even though they had a whole second reel of tape left over. The penalty areas were marked off with those flat-style cones. They set up a single orange cone on the sideline to mark midfield -- on only one side of the field.

- Nets had huge holes in them. Two goals glided straight through without touching any netting. Luckily I was in position to confirm that the ball actually went in.

- Pretty relaxed game overall. I was mostly blowing my whistle for Soccer 101 stuff (Ball has to leave the penalty area on a goal kick. Please have both feet on the ground during a throw-in. No, you can't throw a goal kick.) Only had to call one foul in a 50 minute game.

- Between the wobbly touch lines and no AR's, it was a little tricky deciding possession for throw-ins. Luckily the players were good about policing that themselves. No arguments after close calls.

- One player emerged as the Taking-It-Too-Seriously-Guy. With his team down 6-3 in the 2nd half, he started tackling more aggressively and going into challenges with his arms up. I told him to calm down. He said "OK." DISCIPLINE: ACCOMPLISHED :colbert:

Overall it was pretty chill. I play in this league on a different night, but the fields I play at are nice, new turf fields with pristine nets and goals, and real painted lines. Was very surprised to show up at Estadio Tape-And-Mud. Oh well. If all the games are like this one, it's easy money and an hour's exercise.

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

You know that as the referee you have the ability to call off matches for unplayable field conditions right?

Argyle
Jun 7, 2001

Shrapnig posted:

You know that as the referee you have the ability to call off matches for unplayable field conditions right?

It's a non-USSF affiliated league. They would have just played anyway and used a volunteer ref or something.

Bio-Hazard
Mar 8, 2004
I HATE POLITICS IN SOCCER AS MUCH AS I LOVE RACISM IN SOCCER

Argyle posted:

Reffed my first game last night!

TRIP REPORT: Awful, makeshift pitch. Port-a-Field tape, midfield line, flat-style cones, orange cone,
nets had huge holes in them.

Welcome to budget soccer! It's surprising how soccer can get away with most things missing. If you feel like bringing something to the field to help you, do it. I bring zip ties for the nets, since I'm there 15min before anyone else shows up and it helps me call the game with less controversy.

I've been told that we're allowed to bring cones to mark the Technical Area for the bench, but I've never felt like embarrassing myself by using them.


Argyle posted:

- Only had to call one foul in a 50 minute game.

Enjoy that when you can.

Argyle posted:

- Deciding possession

On a solo game, you are the sole arbiter no matter how far away. Get used to being wrong on balls in and out of play. The most important thing is that you are strong and decisive. There will be dissent, but who wants to get a card for arguing a stupid throw-in? If you show initiative and drive the game you get respect.

Argyle posted:

Taking-It-Too-Seriously-Guy. I told him to calm down. He said "OK."

Feel free to use your personality. I like to joke with players and talk about random non-soccer things while the ball is out of play. Even with youth, I'll say things like "Hey, this 13 year old kid beat me in FIFA 17, how do I get better?" Players will remember you as the"cool ref". The worst that can happen is *awkward*

Argyle posted:

If all the games are like this one, it's easy money and an hour's exercise.

Looking forward to a post where you have to really earn your money. Those are the fun games.

Shrapnig posted:

You know that as the referee you have the ability to call off matches for unplayable field conditions right?

Define unplayable, in the modern sport. I'd say only err on the side of safety; my favorite matches were the ones where we played in a bog.

I'll play unless the Goal Area is a lake, or if there's lightning, tornado, hailstorm, ice, etc. Incorrect lines or dimensions, water on the pitch, wind and rain, play on.

I once played an 11v11 Women's open top division on a U-12 mini field with large goals. Whatever, if they want to play...

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

Bio-Hazard posted:

Welcome to budget soccer! It's surprising how soccer can get away with most things missing. If you feel like bringing something to the field to help you, do it. I bring zip ties for the nets, since I'm there 15min before anyone else shows up and it helps me call the game with less controversy.

I've been told that we're allowed to bring cones to mark the Technical Area for the bench, but I've never felt like embarrassing myself by using them.


Enjoy that when you can.


On a solo game, you are the sole arbiter no matter how far away. Get used to being wrong on balls in and out of play. The most important thing is that you are strong and decisive. There will be dissent, but who wants to get a card for arguing a stupid throw-in? If you show initiative and drive the game you get respect.


Feel free to use your personality. I like to joke with players and talk about random non-soccer things while the ball is out of play. Even with youth, I'll say things like "Hey, this 13 year old kid beat me in FIFA 17, how do I get better?" Players will remember you as the"cool ref". The worst that can happen is *awkward*


Looking forward to a post where you have to really earn your money. Those are the fun games.


Define unplayable, in the modern sport. I'd say only err on the side of safety; my favorite matches were the ones where we played in a bog.

I'll play unless the Goal Area is a lake, or if there's lightning, tornado, hailstorm, ice, etc. Incorrect lines or dimensions, water on the pitch, wind and rain, play on.

I once played an 11v11 Women's open top division on a U-12 mini field with large goals. Whatever, if they want to play...

You sound insufferable but I guess that's par for the course for being a referee.

Bio-Hazard
Mar 8, 2004
I HATE POLITICS IN SOCCER AS MUCH AS I LOVE RACISM IN SOCCER

Shrapnig posted:

You sound insufferable but I guess that's par for the course for being a referee.

It's one of my traits. I certainly have a personality, but I keep getting asked to do games...

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mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004



Hot Rope Guy

Shrapnig posted:

You sound insufferable but I guess that's par for the course for being a referee.

What exactly was insufferable about that? Friendly patter with players is a pretty good way of keeping a match friendly

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