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Dead Reckoning posted:That's the game if you want to break into an industry. At least you're looking at GIS and not nuclear power. Well, since you mentioned it, I'll throw in my question. High school buddy of mine went to college for a nuclear engineering degree. He started off with a different major that he hated, so his overall GPA isn't good enough for a commission. He's decided to enlist with the Navy nuclear program, thinking that it will help him land a civilian job at a power plant later on. He's already gotten the ball rolling with a recruiter, scored in the 99th percentile on the ASVAB, etc. I think he ships to boot in March. I've been enlisted Air Force for six years now. I'm lucky enough to have a 3D1X2 comm weenie job, so things aren't usually too miserable, but I have enough maintenance buddies to know how much they hate life. Especially here at Barksdale. So, my question is, how much does life suck for the Navy nuke enlisted scum? He mentioned that he'll be going in as an E-4, so I assume he'll dodge a little of the bitch work. I'm not necessarily going to try and talk him out of enlisting, but I hope he'll at least choose a rate that won't make him hate life.
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Nov 15, 2014 20:33
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Haaaa. The way he said it, he implied he was getting E-4 because he's coming in with college credits. I figured he would lead working parties instead of being the guy who picks up the cigarette butts and paints rocks.
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Nov 15, 2014 21:12
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Yes, he graduated. It took him a good minute, though, because his credits from his previous major wouldn't translate to his nuclear degree, so it took six years for him to get his bachelors.
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Nov 15, 2014 22:05
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Cole posted:Good advice. Challenge accepted.
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Nov 16, 2014 00:32
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Thanks for the info, guys. I kind of figured the answers I would get, but I wanted to be sure. I'll tell my friend he's a retard, and he should at least keep his mouth shut about the degree. I look forward to his moto boot phase, followed by the inevitable spiral into alcohol, shame, and despair. Tracking his progress will be some kind of cruel social experiment.
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Nov 16, 2014 19:49
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MancXVI posted:Can he really not get hired anywhere with a nuclear engineering degree? Maybe? I don't know the first thing about the availability of civilian nuclear jobs in the rest of the nation, but I know he couldn't get one near New York City, where he lives. He thinks that a few years of nuclear work experience will help him secure a job at Indian Point, so he'll still be close to home. Also, his younger brother just enlisted in the Army a few months ago. Although he won't actually say it, I'd bet my next paycheck he feels he's got something to prove.
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Nov 16, 2014 22:51
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Cyks posted:This here is where he is wrong. The military is drawing down. People are getting kicked out, or retiring earlier, or just getting out because there is no incentives to stay. So instead of competing against the current job pool, he's going to wait another six years and compete against six years of additional college graduates, people who have been working in the industry all this time and every other nuclear whatever that got out before him. Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful plan. Yes to all your guesses except for the 70k pay. He grew up in, and still lives in, the projects. We went to public school together. I enlisted in the Air Force to pay for college upfront, he went to college and paid his way by working as a stockboy. His employment goals boil down to having healthcare and not being poor.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:59
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Dude, seriously, join the Air Force. I went outside for lunch today, and I saw that it was sunny and warm. I realized it would be a crime to work on such a nice day. My shop had been super productive in the morning, and had nothing scheduled to do in the afternoon, so I sent my airman home. Then I told my CFP to call my cell if they needed me for anything, and I left work at 1530. What I'm saying is, I can't believe I get paid for this. Even with all the bullshit box checking, life is good. Edit: Or you could join the Army and go through the Cole experience, I guess. I had fun when I was deployed with the Army, but that was with 3rd Group and leadership treated their men like grown adults, so that's probably not a normal experience. Arc Light fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 05:24
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I'm pretty sure that enlisting is proof enough of scrub status. Sticking around for a full shift just means you've given up on enjoying life.
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Jan 7, 2015 06:08
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Exigent posted:Is it difficult to get into some jobs in the Air Force? I was speaking with my uncle who works with the CIA and he said the Air Force is a really good start for a techie job, especially if I want to work for a three-letter agency afterwards. I know this is a huge change of direction from the Army Rangers but I was thinking about what you guys said and did some research on the Air Force. I've always been kind of a tech-oriented person, I've majored in Information Technology throughout high school so I have three years of Computer Science, a year of Computer Systems, a year of Networking, a year of Forensics, and next year I'm taking web development and Security. Through school I've earned my A+ cert and Networking+ cert and I've done well in the FBLA and CyberPatriots and have some awards towards those things. Would stuff like this be recognized in the AF? It depends on the job and what unit you happen to get assigned to. The techie jobs worth having require certs. I'm a 3D1X2, a job charmingly titled "cyber transport." My AFSC requires Security+ recertification every three years. Most of what I do is basic router/switch networking and running a firewall, but I also run my unit's ADSI, JRE, and CT2 systems. We don't really have an SOP for repairing them, so when poo poo breaks we get to pretend we're actual technicians and figure it out on our own. It's nice, and Boeing, Ultra, etc frequently recruit from within my career field. Just about every SrA from my shop who gets out of the AF ends up making bank as a contractor. Most of my buddies at other bases just reset port security and do other super basic tasks, so for a starter assignment it's kind of the luck of the draw. If you don't want to leave things to the whims of AFPC, and you want to develop some actual skills, White House Comm, JCSE, and JCU are almost always recruiting from within the AF. That said, what's been written about the mission value of 3, 2, and 1 series AFSCs is spot on. 1B4X1, Cyberspace Defense Operations, is the way to go for making money in the civilian world.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:33
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Yes, at least for cyber jobs. It all depends on how well your unit training manager knows their job. My unit regularly sends troops to training classes for commercial certification on servers, networking systems, air track systems, etc. We've also had instructors from one of the information warfare aggressor squadrons come out to teach us hacking. No cert there, but I suspect it makes ethical hacker certification more of a joke than it already is. Generally, we have people sent TDY to classes every month or two. This is because our shop leadership is great at finding available training, the UTM is good at scheduling, and the AF throws money at any job with the word "cyber" like you wouldn't believe. Other squadrons I've been with are terrible at it, and won't send people anywhere without constant cajoling. If you were asking about non-mil schooling, the answer is also yes. I can't speak knowledgeably about the officer side of the house, but enlisted are all but browbeaten into attending college classes, constantly. In order to get good performance ratings, expect to take at least a couple classes or CLEPs. As soon as you get an associates, expect squadron leadership to start asking about your plans for a bachelor's degree. Then a master's. It's essentially a box-checking loyalty exercise. The good news is that the Air Force offers 100% tuition assistance, up to a certain price cap, so as long as you're active duty you can get those degrees without dipping into your GI Bill. Every non-deployed base houses representatives from a couple of brick and mortar schools, usually University of Maryland University College and American Military University. If you want a non-lovely degree that you would be proud to attach your name to, either take online classes or get lucky and get assigned a base near a good school. Something I forgot to mention, though. Comm jobs rack up the most socially awkward human beings you will ever meet in real life. I thought I was a fairly nerdy guy before I enlisted, but holy poo poo. If your chief interest in life isn't video games, you might have to look outside the comm squadron for friends.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:21
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Exigent posted:The Air Force sounds amazing from what you guys are saying, especially the fact that they're looking for people in the the cyber-esque jobs I'd be interested in. It's good when you're doing your actual job, the job that supports the flying mission. You won't always be doing your primary job. If you enlist, you will get out of tech school and arrive at your first unit as the most inexperienced junior enlisted they have. For the first couple years, you will juggle learning your actual job with a string of unpleasant taskings fobbed off on the most useless airman around. For a while, at least, that airman will be you. Story time. I lived in the dorms at my first base. Calling them "dorms" was euphemistic for "never renovated old Army barracks." Every week, a handful of resident airmen were picked for bay orderly duty. Essentially, you spend the day picking up cigarette butts around the dorms, pulling weeds, mopping floors, painting walls, etc. We were notified that an empty room was going to be occupied by an inbound airman, and something had spilled on the floor. It needed to be mopped up. Okay. So, we got the master key and opened it up. The toilet in the attached latrine had exploded, and the floor was covered in liquid poo poo. Maggots and flies were everywhere. We spent the rest of the afternoon killing the insects with undiluted bleach, then mopping up the remains. We wore our gas masks to make the stench bearable, and put plastic bags over our boots so we wouldn't gently caress them up. This wasn't the worst detail I was assigned, just the first that springs to mind. If you're going to enlist, make sure you're okay with doing stuff like that. Eventually, you get promoted to the point where you assign others to do the unpleasant physical tasks. That's the light at the end of the tunnel, and the real motivation to study for promotion. NCOs don't play those reindeer games, though we do have our own time-wasting additional duties that keep us from focusing on our real jobs. Or, you start out with a degree and a decent GPA, and you commission. Then you will never mop up another human being's poo poo mixed with dead flies and maggots. You also won't fill sandbags until your fingers bleed or paint walls the color of jizz or burn barrels of carcinogens in a third world hellhole. It's your choice. I don't want to talk you out of joining up. I like my job. I like my troops. I've made the best friends a man could hope for, and deployed all over the world. Service in the Air Force is a family tradition, and I'll have a free ride to college when I get out. If I had the chance to do things over, I would do it all again in a heartbeat. But there was a whole lot of bullshit along the way. If you're going to do this, it will be a lot easier if you actually WANT to be in the Air Force (or Navy, Army, Marines, FFL, etc). If you're looking for an in with a three letter agency, I'm sure there are easier ways that don't involve signing away four to six years of your life. Edit: Formatting, forgot a word Arc Light fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 21:52
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Yes, it really is a different world. ded posted a daily schedule that would simulate the soul-crushing tedium of their day. If you want the AF comm troops' version, here goes: 0630 - Wake up 0730 - Be at work. Check your systems to make sure everything works. Check the ticket queue to see if anyone reported system outages overnight 0800 - 1130 - Fix anything that's broken. If nothing is broken, perform preventive maintenance. When you're done with that, surf the internet or do online college classes or w/e 1130 - 1245 - Lunch 1245 - 1600 - More fixing poo poo when it breaks. Maybe. Or maybe just loving off on the internet again 1600 - 1630 - Clean up the work area, take out the trash, and then go home If something is broken, then we stay as late as we need to until it's fixed. Some comm jobs are 24/7, so you work 12 hour shifts and nights and weekends, but for the last year I've been at one of the cushier Monday - Friday assignments. If you bother to learn your job and get good at it, playing the game is easy. It's so loving easy. Even with all the nonsensical SAPR/SARC training, the suicide awareness briefs, the endless retraining on OPSEC and COMSEC and every goddamn SEC you can imagine. Even with the steady creep of CYA boxchecking that goes into every personnel evaluation. Unless you touch an airplane or guard a gate, or if you're deployed, you could almost forget the Air Force is, technically, a military organization. That's not necessarily a good or a bad thing. It's simply the truth. If you're in a good unit, you won't ever hear anyone worthwhile say "hooah." You probably won't have anyone give a poo poo if your hair is a little too long or you're not wearing the right color green socks. If anyone does care, they won't drop you for it or scream at you, they'll just tell you to come in looking sharper tomorrow. You're there to carry out a specialized technical mission for the US and to bring home a paycheck. Best Friends brings up a good point, though. There's an inverse relationship between facebook moto and personal merit. Also, the more someone cares about the quality of a haircut or the crispness of a shoeshine, the less likely they are to have useful job skills that they could instead be judged on. Avoid those dickbags if you can help it, you'll enjoy your life a whole lot more.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:53
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When I was going through tech school, we had a sergeant cross training from services. He said one of their end of course exams off the CDCs was about cooking. He called it an "egg measurement." Take this job. Or, alternately, be a bus driver. I just finished a miserable 12 hour shift and took the bus back to my trailer. The driver was a SSgt like me. His job is to drive around base and listen to music all day. My job is to fix a bunch of million dollar computer networks when one of a hundred things goes wrong, while sitting within 15 feet of everyone in my chain of command, from my section chief to my commander. We both get paid the same. Draw your own conclusions.
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Jan 29, 2015 22:37
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Exigent posted:So I've been looking into some jobs I'd be interested in with the Air Force and this is the list I've come narrowed down to: I know I kind of answered this when you asked less specifically about jobs. I can only speak knowledgeably about 3D1X2, Cyber Transport. It was previously multiple comm AFSCs that merged. The job you do, therefore, will vary by the base you're assigned. You must have a TS clearance, even though you might never touch anything above secret in your career. I spent my first two duty locations working in a tech control facility, dealing mostly with long-haul telecommunications between bases, and the associated multiplexers and crypto units needed to make them work. It was hella easy, but you could really only use that experience to get a job at Verizon or Comcast. Currently, I'm in a network shop. I install and maintain the routers and switches, firewalls, VoIP phones, and some of the air to ground radios for my unit. Additionally, I fix our link-16 equipment when it breaks. This is money. The equipment we work on is all popular commercial gear. The on the job experience guy get doing this almost always leads to good comm job opportunities in the civilian sector. Between the commercial certifications we earn on Uncle Sam's dime, the TS clearance, and hands-on experience with equipment made by Cisco, General Dynamics, Ultra, Harris, etc, you wouldn't have a hard time getting a job afterward. My career field also feeds telephone shops. I've never been assigned to one, and I joined the AF back before the telephone systems job merged into the 3D1X2 career field, so I have only the vaguest idea of what they do. If you get assigned to one of these shops, you'll probably only be able to get a job working for a traditional phone company. Trade sexual favors to get reassigned to a network shop. My 3D0X2 buddies basically spend all their time working on servers. They don't hate life any more than the rest of us, so I assume there's nothing inherently wrong with the job. Most of their stuff is made by Dell or Sun Microsystems, so that probably leads to decent civilian-applicable IT experience. Exigent posted:If I was looking into getting into the IT career or possibly working for a three-letter would it be easier to go to college? I couldn't get into a great college but I could probably get into some of the local ones (Rutgers, Brookdale, TCNJ). I just want to do what'll give me better chances with how my grades are looking. Depends on the agency. Some, like the NRO and the NGA, recruit directly from within my career field. I know a few guys who got invitation-only positions at those agencies. Other agencies will probably treat you like any other government service applicant, meaning that you get a bit of an edge for military service, but you're still competing against everyone else who applies. As a general rule in the IT field, experience and certifications trump college. Experience, certifications, and college will beat someone without college.
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Jan 30, 2015 14:54
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Exigent posted:Would companies view the military with one of those jobs as experience? Also would you say 3D1X2 would be more beneficial for what I'm looking to do with IT? Also do you have any input in what type of shop you are put into? Generally, companies do view military comm as IT job experience. In seven years, I have never seen a competent 3D1 leave the AF without a good job (or at least school) lined up. Companies that work with the government (General Dynamics, Ultra, Northrop Grumman) will already be familiar with what your job entails. For non government affiliated companies, you'll just have a fairly strong but generic IT networking resume. If you enlist for four years, expect to spend the first year in training and inprocessing your first base, followed by three years of actual experience. 3D1X2 would dovetail nicely with your stated plans, but I don't have any real experience with the other AFSCs to know if they would be better or worse. You won't have any real control over your first assignment location (the base). If leadership is competent, you will have opportunities to move between shops. Ideally, every airman in the career field should be able to do every type of job. So if you start in tech control, as a junior ranking airman you can usually ask your leadership to swap you for someone in the network shop after you've already become tech control proficient. One of the current AF buzzwords is the "well-rounded Airman," so the opportunity will be there. Once you're promoted to the NCO ranks, you usually stay put in one shop, as half your duties will be generic admin stuff that doesn't vary from shop to shop. After your first duty location, you'll have a little more control over your base. There's an online base dream sheet you can fill out in the hope of getting a new assignment, and if you know how to look for unit manning rates, you can often figure out what bases to put on the dream sheet for the best chance at reassignment. Separately, there are special duty assignments for your career field that you can apply for. These vary based on the needs of the Air Force, but two that never change are White House Comm Agency and tech school instructor. My friends in WHC say it's fast paced and involves lots of travel, but affords excellent opportunities for post-military employment. I only know one guy who volunteered to be a schoolhouse instructor, but he liked it and he's smart as poo poo so I guess it wasn't a bad choice. Arc Light fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 01:27
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Holybat posted:I've been thinking about enlisting with the USAF. I've spoken over the phone with a recruiter a few times, however the only job that the he is offering aside from security forces and maintenance (gently caress that from what I've heard) is "RF communications", I think the AFSC code was 3D1 Godholio posted:Here's a job description. Very close, but not client-side work. 3D1 covers most of the comm career field. You'd be RF Transmissions, 3D1x3. Most of the work they do is back-shop, so you wouldn't directly interact with customers. Most of your job would be maintaining radio comms for aircraft and land mobile radios. We have a bunch at my comm squadron, and they seem to like it. It's not for people with a fear of heights, though. Every so often they have to climb our radio tower to mount or repair an antennae. A better job description. I know you can get certs for Harris equipment, but I don't know how applicable that is in the civilian world.
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Mar 13, 2015 06:31
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Also, if you go RF Transmission, be prepared to always be referred to as "the trans guy/chick."
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Mar 13, 2015 07:46
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One of my friends enlisted with a degree, to be in the Navy's nuclear program. Preferably on a submarine. His plan is to use the Navy experience to help get a civilian job at his nuclear power plant of choice. For reasons, he couldn't get in as a nuclear officer, but he was gung ho about enlisting. Based on my own experiences as a filthy enlisted peasant, I warned him that enlisting is lame regardless of MOS/AFSC. Cole provided a nuanced and thought provoking suggestion:Cole posted:Holy poo poo lmao Godholio posted:This, but post the essay. He agreed to do it, but I never got it before he shipped to boot. And then a letter arrived today. Cole, this is for you. quote:I am enjoying boot camp as far as anyone can enjoy it. You asked me about expectations about the Navy, well I was way off about boot camp to start. I went to the gym as much as I could, worried that I would have a hard time with a physically demanding exercise regimine, but it has been really easy. Our first PFA I passed easily although surprisingly more than half failed. We are lucky if we get PT every other day. I'd say boot camp is more boring and annoying than anything else. I'll ask him again in a couple years, as he counts down the days to ETS, but I assume it will be: quote:gently caress the Navy and gently caress you for letting me enlist. Ninjaedit: bolded for the part that will never ever change no matter where you go in the military. Arc Light fucked around with this message at 11:11 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 11:09
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Zetta_Slow posted:Thanks for the advice everyone! Started eating more today. It feels awful eating so much more, but gotta do it to reach my goals. Bought 3 big jars of peanut butter, let's do this! Talk to a recruiter about minimum weight. Even in peacetime, the Air Force doesn't care as much about underweight recruits as it does about fatties. I've got troops who just finished tech school whose BMT classmates were scrawny enough to be on the weight gain program. And what a program it is. Takes about two weeks before they actually get you to a doc and write you a meal waiver. I was underweight when I enlisted back in 2008, and that meant that I got extra time in the chow hall and extra food. I was the first man into the dining facility and the last man out, every meal. I probably had five minutes per meal. Never got yelled at by the TIs, never forced to leave the table before I was done eating. They also gave me three Boost protein shakes a day. They tasted like poo poo, though. From what the younger guys in my shop say, trainees get a better brand of protein drink these days. I am completely earnest when I say that being underweight is a huge advantage in BMT, assuming you can still do the exercises. Despite what the minimum standards chart says, a higher standard may be enforced in BMT. I can't speak for what they do today, but when I went through it was a minimum of 45 push-ups, and 50 sit-ups. Two of my flightmates were recycled because they were low on push-ups. I don't think the run time was any different than the published AF standard.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:53
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Air Force sit-ups are weak as hell, though. Any time after basic training, you'll have the option to test on a mat with a foot bar or somebody holding down your feet. Unless they changed things recently, the BMT test will involve a fellow trainee holding your feet, and you'll probably be doing it on a concrete exercise field. You can use a towel to cushion your back. Use the towel. Easy mode: only use your stomach muscles when moving to the up position. Go slack and let gravity take you down. For the sit-up to count, you don't need to go all the way up, you just need to touch your elbow or forearm to your leg, without removing your palms from your chest. If you work the angle, that's really not much of a sit-up. That said, I don't want to sound like the PT is crazy hard or anything, just that it's graded more strictly in basic training than the AF standard. The training program is designed so recruits can be conditioned to pass. When I went through BMT, we started with guys who couldn't run 500 feet nonstop, or do twenty push-ups. Six weeks later, only two guys (out of 50) failed the PT test. Are you better than the bottom 4% of idiot 18 year-olds? If the answer is yes, you probably don't have anything to worry about.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:06
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Don't sign for "open" anything (open general, open electronic, etc.) unless you legit don't care what job you eventually get. If your recruiter tells you that your job isn't available right now, you have a couple options. As others have mentioned, you can wait for a few weeks or months until the job you want becomes available. You can also ask your recruiter to see if other regions have the job you want. That's what happened when I enlisted. Apparently job slots are allocated by geographical recruiting region. I wanted a comm network job, but none were available in my area (New York). My recruiter was able to trade one of his avionics jobs with a comm job from a different region. It took a couple days for him to work that drug deal, but I wasn't going to sign for open electronic. If you're going to try to make your recruiter work for you, though, it helps to have a good ASVAB. As Hekk said, the AF isn't hurting for bodies, so you'll need to be a promising recruit. If you took the standardized tests in high school, that should give you an idea of what to expect. Picture the SAT with a couple of simple mechanical logic sections (fitting shapes together, working with gears). There are books available to help you prepare, but the practice ASVAB should let you know if you need them. I don't recall if anyone mentioned this yet, but don't sign up for six years. That would net you E-3 right out of basic training, but you already have enough college credits for that from your associate's degree. Sign for four. If you fall in love with the military, you can re-up whenever. If you hate it, then you get out two years before the guys who did six.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:09
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:USAF doesnt guarantee poo poo on contract. Either things have changed in the last couple years or you had a poo poo recruiter. I'll have to dig out my original enlistment contract, but I'm positive it had my AFSC in writing. The recruiter had a whole list of jobs that were projected to be available within the next year, along with ship dates for basic training. I told him the one I wanted, and also told him I would only enlist for that one job. I did MEPS in January of '08, and before I left Fort Hamilton I knew what job I was getting, and the exact day basic training would start. The last time I asked one of my new airmen about it, probably in 2013, he said it was the same for him. The key here is, unless you want to be military police, don't put security forces on your list. For that matter, don't put anything on your list if you'd be unhappy doing it for a few years.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:47
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Thanks for getting me to carepost while drunk. I hate you guys. For the benefit of the new guy, so you don't get hosed harder than usual: The form guaranteeing a particular job is AF Form 3007 - Guaranteed Training Enlistment Agreement, Non-Prior Service. Option C guarantees you training in a particular job. Once the form is signed, the Air Force is obligated to put you through school for your AFSC choice. If you're disqualified from the job through no fault of your own, you may be reclassed or you can request separation from the Air Force. If you flunk out of school, you will be reclassed to a different job. Similarly, if you don't graduate basic training on time, you may be reclassed. If that's the case, you can request separation but the Air Force will decide whether or not to let you go. The current version of the form is from 2010, but I can't be arsed to convert .xfdl into something that will display on the forum. The version I used back in the day is functionally identical, so I've attached it below.  Hillary Clintons Thong posted:Sorry I guess I misunderstood the multitude of USAF recruiters I worked alongside professionally on how the system works. No, I'm sure you understood what they said. They lied.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:20
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:edit i'll move this forgot it was recruiting thread not bitch about recruiting lol Godholio posted:Pretty much the same thing for most people. Bitching about recruiting might still save someone from enlisting. Take a stand for the future.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:54
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LingcodKilla posted:My wife has a cousin who failed yet got wavered in around 2008 or so. He got assigned to a unit as what he explained as an assistant mortar man on a Stryker. He got stuck painting rocks white on a base on Hawaii for his entire contract so things worked out for him I guess. So painting rocks is a no-joke thing, huh? I always thought it was urban legend / boot hazing a la glowstick batteries or PRC-E9. 
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Nov 8, 2015 11:57
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