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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)
Still not sure why this would be Supreme Court issue. This is clearly an area in which both state and federal laws coexist. There is no requirement that I know of that states can't not have laws against things that are illegal at the federal level.

Warchicken posted:

This is what will happen. If Romney wins election, he will raid every medical dispensary and send every single medical patient to jail even if they are suffering horribly on their deathbeds. Welcome to america.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/feds-target-71-medical-marijuana-dispensaries-in-la-county.html

quote:

Federal authorities on Tuesday took legal action against 71 medical marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles County, part of an ongoing campaign to crack down on the establishments.

mdemone posted:

They would be able to, but they won't. Federal enforcement agencies no longer have any desire to keep wasting time and money on cannabis (despite what we potheads generally believe), but they are duty-bound to do so at the present. Sure, there are a few True Believers left in the drug war, and they'll throw some wrenches into the process after the first legalization occurs, but mostly the DEA et al. would just really like not to have to deal with cannabis anymore.
I am pretty sure that they are not duty-bound to do poo poo. If they wanted to decide to never prosecute anyone for cannabis offenses, there is nothing stopping them. As one example, see Obama's executive order on immigration, in which he basically said he would enforcing some immigration laws in some circumstances.

Fragmented posted:

From the site:

"According to the state Office of Financial Management, a new 25% marijuana excise tax, combined with retail sales and B&O tax, will generate more than half a billion dollars in new revenue each year."

This will just drive the selling of cannabis underground again for most people.

Edit: I mean there has to be a tax but 25%? That plus the other taxes and restrictions i can see why grower's are freaking out.
Aren't cigarette taxes as high, if not higher?

e: No idea if right, but:

quote:

About 82% of what consumers pay for a pack of cigarettes (average cost $5.95 – including statewide sales taxes but not local cigarette or sales taxes) ends up going to the government in taxes and other payments rather than for the cigarettes.
http://www.retirementliving.com/taxes-by-state

And yeah, what wreckus said - weed would be ridiculously cheap if legal.

gvibes fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 12, 2012

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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

showbiz_liz posted:

Yeah, but if Colorado says it's legal and the feds say it isn't, then it's not really legal. The DEA doesn't HAVE to raid people, but that doesn't mean they won't.
Agreed.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)
Illinois has a special liquor tax as well:
http://tax.illinois.gov/Publications/Sales/SalesTaxRates/FixedRatesExcise.htm
$0.231 per gallon for beer or cider with an alcohol content of 0.5 percent to 7 percent
$1.39 per gallon for alcoholic liquor other than beer with an alcohol content of 14 percent or less
$1.39 per gallon for alcoholic liquor with an alcohol content of more than 14 percent and less than 20 percent
$8.55 per gallon for alcoholic liquor with an alcohol content of 20 percent or more

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

KernelSlanders posted:

Possession of small quantities is not against federal law, but when it comes to sales or production Raich settles the issue. Criminalizing production of marijuana is a valid exercise of interstate commerce power. There's no reason to visit SCOTUS again. Change has to come from Congress.
This is certainly my impression.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Salt Fish posted:

This is different because unlike diamonds you can grow cannabis pretty much anywhere. It's called "weed" for a reason. Also, drug violence is not really centralized around cannabis but harder drugs which are more profitable to smuggle. Finally, a better comparison would be to alcohol or tobacco which are not smuggled over the border.
I thought marijuana accounted for somewhere between 30-70% of mexican cartels' income? That seems pretty substantial?

The Warszawa posted:

Sure, but that's also why marijuana legalization won't substantially impact drug violence. The only tenable solution I've heard is a total ban on imported weed (only allowing for the sale of domestic production). What I'm unsure about is how money flowing into the coffers of organized crime from marijuana sales can be distinguished in its harmful effects from money flowing from other criminal activity (harder drugs, human trafficking). I'm not advocating against legalization, but I don't see the difference between the money used to buy coke and the money used to buy weed if the money's going to be used to enslave women and murder people.

But also, in the days of Prohibition, alcohol absolutely was smuggled over the border. In the case of legalization, what I'm asking after is not whether marijuana will still be smuggled, but whether marijuana produced by organized crime will be imported and sold in the United States and, if so, whether that's acceptable.
Once the legalized market stabilizes and large scale commercial production gets going, I don't think marijuana importing by organized crime will be a serious problem, any more than importation of any other easy to grow plant or plant byproduct. I can't think of a single legal, commercial crop that has that sort of problem. You mentioned Dole, so you must have something in mind, but I'm not familiar with it.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Salt Fish posted:

No offense, but that range is pretty silly. It's between less than a third and more than 2/3rds? Nevermind that the number would then need to be divided again to differentiate local Mexican sales from the cartels and smuggled cannabis/ Finally, I should point out that cannabis is bulky, low profit margin, and produces a strong oder making it unsuitable for smuggling compared to cocaine or heroin.
Oddly enough, Mexican drug cartels are not very forthcoming about their finances.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

The Warszawa posted:

I'm not sure it matters how much of a cartel's profit is derived from marijuana sales any more than it mattered how much wool export profits contributed to apartheid South Africa's GNP.
You don't think cartels would become a smaller problem if you took away 70% of their income?

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

The Warszawa posted:

My problem is that I'm not sure I want U.S. companies officially, legally in business with Los Zetas, Inc., who are able to employ cost-control methods that domestic production can't (officially/as easily) use, like "enslave people" and "murder organizers."

Dole has been accused of funding death squads to murder labor organizers in Latin America to keep costs down.
1) I don't think that would be legal
2) I don't think marijuana production is any more likely to be driven by mexican cartels any more than say production of hydroponically grown tomatoes.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

The Warszawa posted:

I think you've misread my posts: I'm questioning whether legalization on one end of the market is actually going to take away their income. That's why I'm asking about "conflict weed" controls. Is there a mechanism proposed by legalization advocates to ensure that legal weed isn't cartel weed/isn't produced by drug violence/isn't generating funds for drug violence?
Gotcha. I agree with Xandu - I think the price would be so low that there would be no money in it for the cartels.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

thefncrow posted:

You're probably much better equipped to handle this in terms of information at your disposal, but drug use tests aren't something that's legal because the drugs are illegal. If you were an employer and wanted to forbid your employees from drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco, you're perfectly within your rights to do so and ask those employees to submit to drug testing to ensure that.
FYI, a bunch of states have "smoker protection laws" that prevent an employer from taking adverse employment actions against someone for smoking cigarettes. Some really broad ones extend to any lawful activity, but where tested in medical marijuana states, they were found to not extend to marijuana because it wasn't lawful yet (i.e., still illegal under federal law). This is all IIRC, but I think it's right.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Jeffrey posted:

It has measurable predictive power several life outcomes, like school performance, job performance, income(weaker than the others), likelihood to commit crimes. Obviously it isn't sufficient to predict much on its own and 8 is a pretty small number, but a small change in a very large group of people amounts to a big change. I guess you could dispute that last part but it seems fairly obvious to me...
Are you saying that marijuana use causes those results? I don't think the research makes clear that the relationship is a causative one.

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gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

goodness posted:

Except IQ is not useful when you are talking about 8 points, that is nothing. Maybe if he said smoking weed while a teen drops you 50 points it might mean something.

Also, there are studies showing that weed can actually help repair brain cells. At my school, the top 10% academically were a pretty cliquey group. We all did drugs (way more than weed) and we all still went to excellent colleges and such.

Its not the weed making people stupid. It is stupid people smoking weed!
In the first study he posted, light users showed the highest IQ gains.

smoke weed less than five times a week.

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