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smokieye posted:...And I want to ask a critical question before everyone reach the last page: what's our next book? I'm just lurking here (mostly because I've already read the majority of these books, and I'm bound to remember bits when re-reading them even if I've forgotten the plots), but if you guys want something other than another Christie, could I suggest Dorothy L. Sayers' Clouds of Witness? (Arguably her Gaudy Night or Murder Must Advertise are better books, but CoW has pretty much everything you want from a mystery - a Duke accused of murder at an English country house, a dead fiancé, tons of red herrings, etc.)
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Jun 2, 2013 01:45
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Sherringford posted:I will need to sit out the Christie one because I'm in a funny position with Christie books. I'm pretty sure I read every Christie book ever, but I read most of those as a kid because my mom had a ton of Christie books. I don't remember the plot to most of them but I know that if I start re-reading them I'll start to remember it. I'll read it along the thread even if I avoid posting speculation though! I'm in kind of the same position, unfortunately. I've read most of the Christies some time ago, and while (except for a few famous ones) I couldn't tell you the plot of them, I was certainly remembering important points in, say, A Murder is Announced as you guys were reading it. Strangely enough, I don't think I've actually read And Then There Were None, though, despite being one of Christie's most famous. However, if you ever do a Sayers I wouldn't mind running it, time permitting.
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Jun 6, 2013 21:36
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Great! Turns out my wife has a copy of the book, so I'll be following along this time. I haven't read it, but it is one of Christie's most famous, so I do have a rough inkling of the plot (nothing that will spoil the mystery, though). Incidentally, the book was also published under the title Ten Little Indians, and originally, in rather less PC times (1939), Ten Little Niggers, so you might reflect that everywhere the text refers to "Indian Island", it was originally "friend of the family Island". I doubt it has much bearing on the plot, though.
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Jun 8, 2013 03:15
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So I'm going to assume two things straight away, based on Christies' usual writing style: 1. Out of the ten (8 guests plus 2 servants), one of them is going to be the person that lured them all to the island. It won't be the boatman or some hidden or undisclosed person. 2. Any first-person thoughts are true and factual. It's possible that one of the characters is mad (and thus their thoughts unreliable), but that seems rather unsporting, and not the sort of thing Christie would do. No. 2 actually rules out a lot of the guests straight away, since we've been in their heads in ch. 1 and know they were tricked into going to the island. The exceptions are Mr & Mrs Rogers (no 1st person thoughts for either), and Blore and Lombard (both hired to go there, but we only have Blore's word for why, and Lombard's is not specified). Of course either might have hired by one of the others, and even someone lured there is not necessarily clear of other actions (i.e. any murders that might be about to occur.) Hobnob fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 22:08
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So, chapters 5-6: Tony Marston is really dead, then. The way ch. 4 ended, I was half expecting a fake-out and that he would be revived. According to the doctor, poisoned with cyanide, and not via the whiskey or soda (and others were drinking from the same bottles, so this is unlikely). It's probably not suicide, so that leaves tampering with his glass. He picks it up off the table in 4(ii), so someone might have been able to slip something in it at some point. Or he may have picked up the wrong glass, if he was not being specifically targeted. There appears to be no particular order that people would need to be killed off, to match the rhyme, at least yet. (Incidentally, is everyone's edition numbered the way mine is? Mine has something like 3-4 numbered subsections labelled in each chapter, but I'm wondering if all editions are that way.) General Macarthur seems to be losing it a bit, but clearly sent Richmond to his death. Vera looks less innocent in the death of Cyril than before. Allowed him to drown, so that Hugo would inherit (and then expected Hugo to marry her)? Mrs Rogers - the doctor looks most suspicious, since he's the one who medicated her the night before, and he's the one saying how people died. He's also probably the person best placed to get hold of poisons. However, we have good reason to believe that he was lured to the island. Note that Mr Rogers stays downstairs cleaning up as all the others are going up to bed, giving anyone the chance to get at the sleeping Mrs Rogers. Blore's idea in 6(ii) of Mr Rogers being responsible also seems possible, and we still don't yet know what Rogers is thinking. Hobnob fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 02:35
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Chapters 7-9: So, they've realised it's murder and they're all going to be killed one by one. About time. (Of course, we have the benefit of knowing they're in a mystery story). Also, confirmed that no-one else is on the island. OK, Macarthur kicks it as expected. Interesting that it was obvious trauma - no more pussy-footing around with poisons and possible suicides. I wonder if there's a reason for that? Nobody is looking more or less likely to be the perp at the moment (except for Macarthur of course). The doctor is, as mentioned by Blore, in a prime position to have committed the murders, but nobody has been ruled out completely. I won't be terribly surprised if one of the murders eventually turns out to have been done by someone other than U.N. Owen (maybe one of the guests is relative of one of the other's victim, or something) - it'll probably be a good misleading red herring. Hobnob fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 01:47
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I've been on holiday and idiotically forgot to pack the book, sorry. I'll just give my guess, even though I haven't read the later chapters, based on something I noticed earlier: Look again at the very first passage in the book. It doesn't say quite what you're meant to think it says. At no point does the Judge mention actually receiving that letter, just that the letter accurately reflects what one of his acquaintances would write like. I think he faked that letter and is behind the whole thing. I don't know what happens in the later chapters, but from discussion here I'm guessing everyone ends up dead. If my theory is true, then the Judge would have to be the last to die (or rigged the deaths after him somehow, maybe by faking his own). I guess I'll find out as soon as I get back.
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Jun 28, 2013 08:39
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Alright, I'm all caught up, to the end of the epilogue. My final theory: I'm staying with the Judge as U.N. Owen. My post above stands - his thoughts in the very first section of the book are artfully written, and don't actually state that he received that letter from Constance Culmington. Compare with the others' first-person thoughts in the rest of the chapter, where it's explicit that they were lured to the island. I think the letter is faked, so he can show it to the others on the island as a plausible reason for him being there. Two other things stand out, reading with this in mind: In 2(viii), Wargrave is thinking (after meeting Armstrong) "All doctors are damned fools. And Harley Street ones are the worst of the lot. And his mind dwelt malevolently on a recent interview he had had with a suave personage in that very street." Supposition: The Judge is dying of something incurable, which is why he's consulting a Harley Street doctor. (FYI, for those not in the know - Harley Street was (is still?) where you would find the practices of the best - or at least the most prestigious - specialists in the UK for any particular disease or condition.) Therefore he might not care too much about committing suicide as part of his scheme. In the epilogue, it's mentioned that Seton, who Wargrave forced the conviction of, turned out to be unmistakably guilty (by later evidence). So Wargrave's murder/killing is the odd one out - he's the only one who's "victim" was not innocent. This ties in with this section later in the epilogue: And Then There Were None posted:Maine coughed. He said: So: Wargrave, dying, picks 9 people guilty of murder but untouchable by the law. He's going to kill them in an elaborate plan as a last act of "justice" before killing himself. The Seton case is somewhat notorious and a plausible cover for him to fit in with the others. He's a judge, so details of many of the deaths would be easy for him to find - most had inquests and so on. And he is clearly "some fanatic with a bee in his bonnet about justice". Lombard says as much about him in chapter 10. The question is, how did he do it? He's the sixth person to die - and could not possibly engineer the death of Blore, at the very least, from beyond the grave. Also it's clear from the epilogue that someone was alive after Vera Claythorne committed suicide - someone put the chair back. The only possible answer is that he didn't die when we think he did. Armstrong examines Wargrave's body briefly, but is clearly not doing well at that point - he's "reeling a little, as he walked like a drunken man". The gunshot wound must be faked, and somehow his (non-)pulse too. The Judge drugs himself into a deep sleep so he can be carried into his room as if lifeless (maybe that drug also suppresses his pulse?). Note that nobody actually hears the supposed gunshot that kills him, and the revolver is not found until later - not at the scene of Wargrave's presumed death, because it was never there. So, he recovers from the sleeping drug, then follows Armstrong out that night and drowns him. He's ready in the house when Blore returns and gets him with the marble clock. With only two left, it's obvious one is going to kill the other, and he's deliberately reintroduced the pistol into things. Then it's just a matter of setting the scene to encourage Vera to commit suicide, tidying up, and finally going to his room and shooting himself with the pistol in the head, to match the injury as described in the other's diaries. Note the final location where the pistol is discovered - in Wargrave's room. (Morris I'm not so sure about - if it was murder, it was done the 1st night when they were all on the island. So I'm not sure how that fits at all.)
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Jul 1, 2013 07:21
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Ha! I was almost correct. The bit with the doctor not realizing it was a fake gunshot wound was always the weakest part of my theory. I wasn't thinking of a short-term alliance with the doctor, only a long-term conspiracy, and other things ruled that out. Ironically, it was chasing a red-herring (I was sure one of the guests would be associated with one of the other's victims) that lead me to re-read all the intros, looking for common names in the character's backgrounds. I didn't find any, but it made me realize how carefully Wargrave's bit was written, and what it did and didn't say. Roll on the next one. Incidentally, Dorothy L. Sayers' Clouds of Witness is only $1.99 on kindle right now.
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Jul 7, 2013 16:56
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Foxfire_ posted:At least one person at the mill isn't in on the conspiracy, or the numbers would get flipped there instead of out on the road. Since a truck labeled No 6 entered the mill and was potentially seen by a non-conspirator, there probably are at least six actual trucks. They're described as being identical to a casual inspection, so the label switching might be for confusing exactly which truck is being moved when. At first I was musing that Coburn might not be in on the secret (whatever the secret is), but that seems unlikely, especially as his daughter seems to be in the know. Perhaps Coburn is in on it, but the workers at the mill are ignorant, except for say Herni and maybe a few others. For some reason knowing which truck is being used when would arouse suspicion - perhaps something to do with the timing, which seems to be important somehow. Or maybe one of the trucks is special in some way? Hobnob fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:12
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So not much new information, or at least not that will help us unravel the mystery. We have the people who are in on the scheme: Coburn, his daughter (probably), Captain Beamish, the engineer Bulla, and Henri. Plus at least one other on the UK side, the only one we know the name of is Archer. I think the other workers at the mill (and crew of the boat?) are probably not part of the enterprise, so the number-swapping is probably to fool them. Still not sure why the swapping is being done. It strikes me that whatever they're smuggling has to be picked up from somewhere, so maybe it's done to disguise the movement of the lorry that's picking up the goods - perhaps it's a longer trip away. (Or alternately, if they're smuggling something from England to France (what?), the goods will need to be delivered somewhere at the French end.)
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Aug 1, 2013 20:44
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Autumncomet posted:It's not midnight so it's not the weekend in my time zone yet, but if you insist Prof. Judging by that "map", the story is taking a weird turn.
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Aug 10, 2013 05:26
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Read through the end of chapter 8. Here's the
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It's probably a reaction to the standard tropes of a book written in 1922, but I can't help feeling that Madeleine has got to be less innocent than she seems. Maybe it's just hard to accept the only woman character as a distressed damsel that needs to be rescued by any old random man coming along and asking to marry her. There's nothing in the text to support her as being anything other than innocent, though. With the murder, and the introduction of the inspector, the book has gone in a different direction than I was expecting. We still seem to be entirely in the dark about what's actually going on, and how, though.
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Aug 27, 2013 21:39
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The fuel oil tank filling might be worth another look. If what they're smuggling is brandy (or some other liquid), it would be the obvious way to get it off the boat - perhaps a fake fuel tank. But I think that passage in the book explicitly says they examined it and nothing was suspicious. Could they be throwing the (doctored) props overboard somewhere at sea and collecting them later? Though we haven't an inkling of another boat or anything.
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Sep 9, 2013 21:52
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Maybe a hidden pipe between the depot and the distillery? I mean if it is brandy (and the fact that it's ending up at a distillery seems to point to that) then you'd only need a pipe to transport it. Perhaps, from the map we had previously, a small pipe running along the railway line?
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Sep 12, 2013 04:13
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I'll have to sit this one out - while it's a long time since I read the book, I'm pretty sure I remember the main twist if not any of the other details, so it wouldn't be fair of me.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:33
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It's interesting that the book is emphasising the unreliability of witnesses. Usually if that happens in a story it'll be something like the witness is colour-blind, and doesn't realize a red scarf is actually yellow, or similar. Here though it seems like we're going to get at least one completely wrong or missing statement from at least one of the witnesses. Also I suspect that'll figure into the original poisonings, too.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:42
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