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YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Trujillo posted:

Something weird keeps happening in my CK2 game. Haven't played much CK2 so I'm not sure what the reasoning behind this is. I'm playing Granada and took most of southern Spain and made Andalusia. Only problem is France took a strip of Spain stretching from Barcelona to Badajoz, so I kept plotting on and killing French kings to try to make everyone else rebel and they did when a female slothdwarf took the throne. Pretty much all the land France had left was 5 provinces around Paris and 5 in Tolouse and most of that was getting occupied when all of a sudden all the rebels just rejoined France without even losing any territory, and they all still had -100 relations with the queen. Then a while later even more provinces rebelled and the same thing happened. Is this normal or is something going wrong?

Sounds like the rebellion's goal is not independence, but something like lowering crown authority. So when their liege surrenders and gives them what they're demanding, they rejoin her.

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YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Darkrenown posted:

Eh, as long as we keep DinoUniversais under wraps it's all good.

I swear to god, if you do not at least release Laurasia Universalis as an EU4 DLC I'm gonna be mad. :mad:

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!



I hate to be that guy, all the more so because I would actually prefer it if these things could be more accurately represented, but it is called ~ * ~ E u r o p a ~ * ~ Universalis. It is impossible to properly represent, in a fun way, the ways China and Europe worked, and when there is a compromise to be made with reality, then scale will tip in favour of Europe. At some point you have to accept that the Paradox games we know and love are to a greater or lesser degree blatantly Eurocentric.

Yes, Ming and a Euro OPM should not be anywhere near comparable, but I do not think anyone actually disagrees with that, and given that I do not think there is any point in bringing that up in such a confrontational manner. Especially since EU3 is, pretty much, a dead game by now.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Gorgo Primus posted:

I have no wish to get into an EU3 argument, but this is a really lovely intellectually dishonest line of reasoning on your part; unless you think Victoria 2 should have ignored everything outside of London and just had you do paperwork and royal visits as the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland. Why should they represent Prussia or the finer points of industrialization? I hate to be that guy, but it is called ~ * ~ V i c t o r i a ~ * ~.

No disrespect, but it is only a lovely line of reasoning if you attempt for whatever reason to take it out of context. The context being, that why of course a game called Europa Universalis, developed and published by a European company, likely with European and American audiences in mind, is going to weigh Europe more than Asia when it comes to making compromises with reality. If the issue was with the game dealing solely with Europe, then yes that might have been an appropriate comparison. Though even then, I would say that Victoria accurately reflects its title in that its main focus is the Victorian era, with a very contemporary British point of view towards the world outside of Europe and North America.

Basically I just meant that the title is a not-so-subtle hint towards the game's quite blatant Eurocentricism and you shouldn't be taking that so literally you silly goose.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Gorgo Primus posted:

Still insisting that the name is not an excuse, and that the board game doesn't really give a poo poo about anything outside Europe.

You're still missing the point; it's not the name that makes the game Eurocentric, it's the game itself. But if you don't consider that the name is a not-so-subtle hint to that then I don't know. I'm basically saying what you're saying about the board game, EU "doesn't really give a poo poo about anything outside Europe". Of course, that's entirely fair and accurate since effort has been put there, but what I've been saying is that EU is eurocentric and I don't know what you're trying to do with taking that up with me (maybe trying to tell me that EU isn't eurocentric???).

Raenir Salazar posted:

This stopped being a legitimate excuse the moment Paradox devs began justifying game play mechanics based on a warped understanding of history. Sure every once in a while you get genuine nutters like Steppe Wolf or those various obscure Balkan nationality nationalists and Paradox is right in those instances but things like a Ming China that's more economically and military backwards than Europe at 1500 or the negligible speed bumps the American Indian nations are... Is just laughably ignorant when there are so many possible fixes within the game engine as is.
I won't disagree with you, because I didn't like the way some Divine Wind things were done either (specifically the design decision to not actually represent Japan's historical starting situation and bring back something from a few centuries earlier, IIRC), and I complained about it on the Paradox forums back then. But I'm pretty sure that, outside of the game development's requirements list, the developers are not actually satisfied with how China is portrayed. Or, at the very least, that they are aware that it's a very warped image.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Gorgo Primus posted:

I'm just saying that you shouldn't use EU's name as an excuse to shrug your shoulders when people complain about how Divine Wind - the expansion that was billed as "the ROTW expansion" - mostly dealt with European features and made Japan and China both a lot less fun to play. There is plenty of room to argue, both about the merits both of EU3's portrayal of Asia and the merits of even attempting to do so, without resorting to that kind of intellectually dishonest reasoning.

Of course. Like I said, the name is a reflection of the fact that the game is blatantly Eurocentric, not that it is the cause of it. That's what I've been saying from the start: the game is Eurocentric, so when a compromise with reality has to be made, the solution picked will be the one that will ultimately benefit playing in Europe with the rest of the world as an afterthought.

Do not think that I am not disappointed with how the DW mechanics turned out, I am just saying that in light of that it makes sense that playing a European OPM will ultimately grant you a great many opportunities and possibly even potential that playing Ming will not; the game is made with Europe in mind first and foremost.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


It's in Swedish for me too so it's not Chrome (I'm using Opera).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


If you're playing APD, it's vital that you research the Education techs; remember that it's not just the tech effect but also the related invention effects that help out with that, so a tech that gives say 10% education efficiency might end up giving 30% when you add up the inventions that come with it. Once you've balanced your clergy around (you probably do not actually need to get to 4%) and research say half the education tech tree you could be getting a point or more in literacy yearly, if I remember my own experience right.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Darkrenown posted:

Or, I dunno, people could not get worked up about our wallpaper? It's kinda weird.

Uh no I'm gonna get as worked up about your wallpaper as I like it's something fun to make fun of so I will make fun of it.

ps you should defo put in events about a fake library wallpaper in CK2

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


It would be hilarious if they tried to include it while remaining politically correct and Yugoslavian provinces had cores belonging to "FYROM".

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Definitely only play Steppe Wolfe once you're a veteran so you can appreciate the craziness and criminal modding neglect it contains. EU3+ has a bunch of changes that are cool but at the same time it might not be particularly friendly to newcomers. You should probably start with a more concrete vanilla experience, then start exploring the modding scene. miscmods is basically the vanilla+ mod, and you should go for it if you plan on a non-european game (like ethiopia), but I don't know how compatible it is with the latest patch. I think someone has kept it up to date but I can't say I remember anything more than that.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Steppe Wolfe removes it (out of virtue of using the Victoria 2 map/having a timeline extending to the modern age), as does the Whole World Mod (but I don't know if this is up to date). Others, such as MEIOU and I think maybe Death & Taxes have less wastelands (in MEIOU there's three or so passages through the Sahara and most stuff south of it that isn't deep rainforest is colonisable, for instance).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


NihilCredo posted:

I also heard good things about Terra Nova, and it's updated for 5.2 beta (though that will be the last version apparently) but I haven't tried it myself. I'd suggest you check that out.

Oh my, Terra Nova. I can never unbound that name from this gem of a thread on the paradox forums.

Basically the guy who made that mod actually believes that dragons were literally true existing beings and that dinosaurs survived to recent times (think Nessie). He thought it best, of course, to add these in the mod. His justification to sceptics? Even if the creatures did not exist, people thought they did, so they might as well have! Now that is a logic I could maybe get behind to a degree, but then you have things like going on a dragon hunt which gives army tradition, and stuff like that:

quote:

basicly, right now in 12.98, there is a very rare chance of sea monster encounter events for sea going nations.

behemoth events are still rare but are much more common for nations that had historical sightings, encounters or myths of dinosaurs or dragons.

once a nation gets a behemoth encounter/myth event, then they will eventualy get the dragon quest event where they get to decide how the nation will proceed with this information. Natins can try to hunt dinosaurs/dragons, ignore them, worship them, or try to tame them. the 3 choices other than ignore all give permanent bonuses.

regardless of if you feel that living dragons/dnosaurs were true in the time period or just myth, it still plausibly aplies to the game and I will tell you why.

hunting dragons, even if they are not found, will still increase military training, tactics and exercises, thus, military tradition gain is plausible.

worshiping dragons, regardless of if they are real of myth, will still cause the nations religion to adopt them as a icon and perhaps make elaborate costumes and thus the religious culture would be more united.

taming dragons, even if its a myth, could stil raise the nations prestige if they are able to convince other nations that they have captivated dragons.

code:
dragon_tame = {
	prestige = 0.01
	icon = 3
}

dragon_hunt = {
	army_tradition = 0.01
	icon = 7
}

dragon_worship = {
	tolerance_heathen = -1 
	tolerance_heretic = -1
	tolerance_own = 1
	icon = 9
}

He also later thought for some reason that it would be best to split the dragon_worship modifier for christians and non christians giving the latter a halved effect, producing gems like dragon_worshipchristian. :psyboom:

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I love how sometimes the pdox forums just screw up. :allears:

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


pdxjohan posted:

100% true. Turnbased should not be present in modern computer games.

Oh Johan!

Everyone responding seriously is precious. We are the Paradox fans, it's us. :allears:

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Farecoal posted:

I just wanted to make sure, Darkest Hour's latest patch is 1.03 RC2, and Kaisserreich's is compatible with said patch, correct?

Yeah, though you need a compatibility patch (the link to download it is right under the link to download the mod in its thread in the Pdox forums).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Clapham Omnibus posted:

Pretty shortly it looks like it will be changed to allow elder daughters to inherit over sons, mainly because ~Wills and Kate~ are going to have a baby: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21119034. Still not allowing any dirty papists however.

Isn't the monarch of England the head of the Anglican church? It would be mighty awkward if a Catholic rose to the throne.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


pdxjohan posted:

Should be the same everywhere.

So the deal's going to go up on steam as well? My interest is piqued in MotE so I wouldn't put pre-ordering past me if it's going to get me Sengoku another icon on paradoxplaza.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


podcat posted:

The V2 warscore system had a few "retardations". We are redoing that a bit for HoD. I agree those screenshots are super dumb.

It's always great to see posts like this. :)

In other news, I pre-ordered MotE. It... only dawned to me afterwards that it being paired with Sengoku might be trying to get a point across. :negative:
I suppose I'll see if I threw my money away on Monday. Worst case scenario I spent 18 euros on forum icons.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


podcat posted:

Not to hate, but it seems to me that many of you guys are dissing Sengoku without actually playing it. Its not as deep as our other games but a few playthroughs are fun if you like war. I don't think it deserves the reputation it has on these forums.

I will admit to not have played it, but there's quite a few things that have soured me about it, not stemming merely from its reputation.

One, its release date and focus (character-event focused game) really makes it feel as its purpose was to be a CK2 beta; CK2 was very hyped, it was marketed very well, and was expected to sell. Sengoku was an aside, not part of your four big franchises. In the end, even if the intention wasn't that, Sengoku did serve as a CK2 beta.

Two, some aesthetical and design choices were quite a turn-off. The concept of "Honour", with your character committing sepuku when it reaches zero feels like little more than a caricature. There's also that hilarious loading screen with the church bathed in light and the shinto temple in darkness.

I guess it's not much, but coupled with its reputation as a very simple game, I have no desire to spend a portion of my hard drive to house it, much less play it.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


You can just ignore marriages and education for the kids of courtiers. I think courtiers marry on their own? And if there's a child you're supposed to assign an education to and you don't care to bother you can just let the game run and a random courtier will offer taking over their education to you.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


NihilCredo posted:

Irrelevant court kids are actually a resource since you can get them educated by some other lord for a quick relations boost.

Ditto for unmarried courtiers and snagging skilled lowborn characters, although it's not nearly as easy as it used to be.

I'm pretty sure that kids have to be close relatives for you to get a relationship boost by entrusting their education. But yeah when you have like 5 or 7 kids it's a good idea to send everyone after the third or fourth to be educated by high-ranking vassals whose relationships are low/on the fence for a (+10 I think) boost.

Other than your own kids, and maybe kids brothers or anyone else you care about, it's a good idea to personally take over the education of the heirs of your vassals; it's likely they'll accept, and then you'll get to choose your future vassals' traits, and I'd say it's essential in multicultural empires to help turn the holders of vassalised fiefdoms to your own culture (sparing you the -10 foreigner relations penalty).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


NewtGoongrich posted:

In EU3 didn't galleys have a massive bonus for ship battles in the Mediterranean?
Even so, by the midgame they were simply outclassed by big/light ships. In my experience anyway.

NihilCredo posted:

If it's like EU3, galleys are a ship class, not a tech level; it means small light ships for less-than-oceanic (I'm sure there's a better term) navigation.

He knows that, he means that by those tech levels they are useless.

I suppose that if nothing else, the 50% boost will *make* them useful if they aren't.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


JGBeagle posted:

Does anyone else get hung up on Paradox's registration screen? No matter how many times I refresh, the page erases my password and then loads indefinitely, never completing my registration. I just want to look at the mods. :negative:

I got that too. Cancelling the page loading and hitting the Register button again worked somehow. In case Pdox staff's reading, my browser was Opera.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Yeah don't just buy games to "support Paradox". Paradox is going well as it is, and blind loyalty is not a good thing; they should be rewarded by MotE if MotE turns out to be a good game, they shouldn't be receiving your money as if they need charity. And this is coming from someone who, for better or worse, chose to preorder MotE.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


WeaponGradeSadness posted:

While I'm waiting, has anyone seen the whole map for MotE? I'm assuming it's roughly the same as Rome: Total War's map, since the Ottoman Empire is a playable faction and Egypt will probably be represented since that was one of Napoleon's major campaigns, which means the rest of North Africa will be there too. I'm a little bummed it's not going to be worldwide, since I've always wanted a game where I could do an alt-history of "Napoleon's fleet isn't sunk at the Battle of the Nile and he invades British India," but I know it is better from a gameplay standpoint to focus on the major powers in Europe rather than have every country in the world with its own poo poo going on, most of which won't be related to the Napoleonic Wars at all.

I believe the map goes up to and includes Persia. If I'm bummed out about something it's the non-inclusion of non-European theatres (before Pdox took over development there would have been sidescreens of places like the North American theatre).

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I booted up and played for a bit to get a general grasp of the feel of the game, the interface, and so on, not a very serious game. I jumped the tutorials and went straight to the game.

First time I see this in a paradox game, you can pick the language of the game on startup:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128126952

Paradox peace AI never changes; Brunswick answered the CtA of Great Britain against me, occupied the single province I have between its two parts and decided that was enough to demand that I concede defeat to them (it wasn't even a city or fort province):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128134660

The post-battle report, you can see the battle events:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128135341

They are in nice prose, unlike the clunky mechanical stuff we're used to from the Resign/Game Over screen of EU3. A thing to note, which I didn't understand until I saw a battle report related to it; units have a stat called "Initiative". Now initiative is usually framed in a positive light, but in MotE it's treated as a bad thing; it shows that the units are capable of going against or disregarding orders. For instance, in one battle a cavalry brigade that was ordered by my general to go on a Raid decided to launch a full attack in a vain quest for glory.

There's a couple things not to my liking so far. There's about 20 or so land units but the interface where you choose which one to build in each province only displays 7 at a time (meaning you have to scroll through about three pages of units to get from the top to the bottom). It's also displayed in a very raw, spreadsheet-y sort of way that makes it annoying trying to compare one kind of unit to another. I also spent a lot of time rearranging my units, figuring out what's what and placing them in formation in an army. Selecting generals isn't much either, at least at the start when they don't have any traits so there's not much difference than the numerical stats.

There's also some errors like, well...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128137754

I'm not sure that is quite the Siberian southwest, Paradox!

I'll have to play more than this to form an actual solid opinion on the game, but as long as the issues with it remain on this level where they won't matter once I'm more familiar with the interface it might be a cool game. Perhaps not with much to offer on single-player but it's obviously a multi-playered focused game, so it wouldn't be fair to judge it on the single-player alone.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I believe that provinces count towards your dominance if they belong to either you or a puppet state, so you'd probably have to kick Spain out and invade them, yeah.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


SkySteak posted:

I was thinking of playing as Russia. Hoping it's a fun experience. Also old question but is IC building ever worth it?

It costs 5IC to build and the buildtime is a year, it's very much worth building up to a year or so before the war starts I believe. I haven't played the '33 scenario of DH much, but when I did (before the last few patches) AI America and USSR built up IC like crazy and had something like 500 effective IC by '40 or '41.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I'd be much happier if there were at least fewer near-identical units. Army customisation could afford to come at a lesser expense to interface clutter.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


PhantomZero posted:

This may have been a mod, but it is also in the latest patch. When colonizing new territory it is randomized from a set of possible trade goods. Once when playing as Russia I had like 6 Gold mines out in Siberia, another I had none.

That isn't what they're talking about. In vanilla each "region" has a certain chance to end up with a certain kind of good when colonised, so for instance the mesoamerican provinces have a chance to end up with cocoa, sugar, etc., but not, say, naval supplies or wine. In your case you didn't get Gold but it was among a few select possible tradegoods you could get. What Patter Song said was tradegoods being completely randomised; no specific pools that each region draws its goods from.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


You probably should not be ganging up on DR over this, I also got the same impression from Gorgo's post, that he was commenting on the game and not on IRC's mood swings. It could have certainly been phrased better.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Nightblade posted:

There's one in March of the Eagles\_CommonRedist\DotNet\4.0 Client Profile

Vodos posted:

I was gonna say "delete the installscript.vdf" in the game's folder but mine is also doing it and the file isn't in the folder. I'm pretty sure that's how it worked for CK2.

Thank you for this! I thought it was only me that had this issue because I got a couple .NET error messages the day after MotE's release.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Smirr posted:

When it goes from 100% Fascist to 80% Fascist and 20% Conservative, did 20% of the MPs go "oh no, now that we've gone back to non-secret ballots, we've gone too far!"?

More or less. Say you are about to pass a social reform; some of the upper house members are considered socialists because they are in favour of that. Once you achieve the new status quo they become satisfied and do not wish for further change; since they favour the status quo they no longer are socialists but conservatives.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Darkrenown posted:

"courage push the bravery" was from Iron Cross, right? You know, a game not made by us. Don't let that slow down your criticism of first draft text in a beta screenshot by non-native English speakers though.

Making fun of Paradox spelling will never not be funny.

Good job on the MotE battle reports by the way, if all your games have prose that well written I won't miss the clunky language one bit.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I have to agree; while I do think that ship customisation is neat and interesting, it does make me worry they'll overreach with their features a la MM. And also, the main reason I'm interested in a Cold War game is that it would essentially be a modern era country-building game, not so much because of war and so. This DD moved EvW quite solidly away from my list of games I'd certainly buy.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Darkrenown posted:

Yeah, I should just agree with everything people say here. It gets a bit tricky when you disagree with each other though, who should I side with then?

I do not doubt that seeing complaints over your company's work, when your job is likely (as most jobs) stressful, can be irritating, but you could probably do with a less defensive/passive aggressive attitude. If you're not feeling that way, you at least come off that way. At the end of the day, people will analyse anything you put out, they will find things they think are anything less than perfect, and they will point them out. It won't matter if it's a beta or pre-alpha screenshot or a photograph you took of chalkboard in the office that showcases what your plans are, someone will notice and point and laugh. There's little point in calling this behaviour out as stupid or whatever, because even if it's stupid, it is. It is a Thing that Exists. It being stupid or being called stupid isn't going to make it any less real. At the end of the day this thread exists because we do like and buy your games so please, there's not much point in being that negative towards criticism, no matter how dumb you may think it is!

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Darkrenown posted:

Oh yeah, it's super:


For a few seconds I didn't realise those were trees and I was wondering why a good chunk of Stockholm was covered by such a thick dust cloud. :psyduck:

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Fintilgin posted:

Yeah, this was changed at one point, wasn't it? I seem to remember you used to be able to have 3 of one type, which was hilariously over powered.

It was changed with Divine Wind, I believe.

Anyway the budget screen is good for telling you where your money comes from and where it goes; if there's a huge deficit then you can just check which of your expenses is the culprit of a ridiculous balance.

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YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


gradenko_2000 posted:

IIRC you need to increase literacy and let the proles get some extra cash (which means not taxing them as hard), which will translate into increased consciousness, which will further translate into increased militancy.

I don't think you'll necessarily need the rebels, though - you'll be able to implement more democratic reforms if and when your militancy gets high enough, and then you'll get hit with a "Turns into democracy" event after you've implemented enough reforms

HM's Government doesn't turn into a democracy through reforms.

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