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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Fried Chicken posted:

Eh, I'd bet on Friday cutting to inside the train, or maybe dealing with Ollie freaking out after panel 6, and then cutting back to a different point in the Forge fight

I can see that just as easily yeah. The discrepancy between Spender as advertised and Spender as seen might be explained later on.

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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Darth Windu posted:

He should've spent another week working on the writing of this one. God drat that is a half baked important monologue.

Or you know at least let someone proof read it.

What's the problem exactly?

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Darth Windu posted:

The third panel sticks out as completely horrible. A lot of it reads very awkwardly. Dude's obviously not a writer, and the comic suffers for it sometimes, but it is particularly bad in this one.

I like the metaphor about burning the present, though.

See this is why I can't take you seriously Windu, you try to pass yourself off as ~just a sincere critic~ but an actual critic would have something of more substance to say. You're criticizing but you don't actually say anything. And this is pretty much always the case with you! You don't criticize, you fly in to say "this is bad because it's awkward" and then helicopter away. Alright, cool story bro.

So yeah, in light of this and your behavior in all other threads ever, Occam's Razor bids me assume you're just arguing in bad faith and trollin' :shrug:

Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Mar 29, 2014

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

reignonyourparade posted:

Man so Spender doesn't even use the ACTUAL argument "why haven't YOU gone and saved them?" its "oh YEAH? well where were your 'ethics' when you did something unhelpful to my interests, huh?"

No he has a point. You don't get to be all self righteous about doing the right thing 15 seconds after maiming a living being in order to (attempt to) make a getaway.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
Well I suppose this was inevitable. Grandpa knows what's up and trains accordingly.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

ronya posted:

If being pulled into the spirit world is effortless, you'd think they would do it all the time during battles to teleport around the place.

Shhh you're ruining the future introduction of zwee fighting

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Dolash posted:

Finally got around to reading this webcomic and it's pretty great. It seems to move a little slowly though - I thought things were just getting started when I caught up to the current page and realized I'd just read three years worth of updates. It's got a great style and the pace is fine narratively, I just worry if it's going to actually be able to finish.

I mean, how long has it been in-universe? Like a week?

Well keep in mind for a long time the webcomic had no real fixed update schedule to speak of. The Mondays and Fridays thing is fairly new. That's why it seems especially slow :v:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Desuwa posted:

Sounds like he needs to beat up a lot of little spirits and get them to turn a couple hundred nails into minor tools.

I mean if you're going to have a super villain power you might as well go all the way

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Tollymain posted:

Things that are true and not at all theories:

Spender will go to the dark side and turn into a Naruto character.

Johnny is going to end up with the most absurdly obnoxious power in existence. Possibly even being an excrementalist :shrek:

Max dies in this chapter and is replaced by the real hero of this story, P.J.! :ghost:

Wrong, Spender is going to turn to the dark side and turn into a Bleach character. TOTALLY DIFFERENT :byodood:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Probably Magic posted:

Well, Tubesnake had a lot of bravado about his faction, my guess is that one of his allies was patrolling the tunnels, doing its usual route, and when it saw its compatriot's host in a bind, it decided it had to intervene. I doubt it's true benevolence for Max and more just spirit faction loyalty. There do seem a lot of similar characteristics (huge, dark) between Tubesnake and this thing, anyway.

That's my take as well. Max's black aura is very pronounced here and I don't think it's a coincidence, LSI is straight up recognizing Scrap Dragon's energy and responding out of factional allegiance.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

mr. stefan posted:

Is there anything at all in the comic that says Max cannot be possessed like Isaac and use a tool at the same time? It's entirely possible that there's another spirit hitching a ride in his body that had just been smart enough to keep on the down low.

Also I'm pretty sure that a spirit trapped in a tool is incapable of hijacking a body.

The comic pointedly shows off Max's bat glowing just after the possession ends.

It's Scrapdragon.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Raenir K. Artemi posted:

With how this comic strives to break expectations, that could just as easily be Scrapdragon being pissed as hell that Max is being possessed by something else.

Some people in this thread need to be beaten violently with Occams Razor. There is no solid evidence whatsoever that anything other than Scrapdragon is possessing Max.

In light of that, the rational thing to do is to assume his spontaneous possession is related to the spirit we know he carries around rather than the spirit of santa claus we made up.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Paramemetic posted:

Yeah for what it's worth I'm pretty sure it's just Scrapdragon because we haven't even developed that spirit yet why would we add more and more that aren't Starchman? But I think specifically saying "let's think about this scientifically you dullards!" is a goofy thing to hold to in fiction.

It's not even that it's just that "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SUBVERSIONSSSS" is a terrible argument. Zack has subverted an anime trope here and there, cool, that does not mean he is being subversive for the sake of being subversive. Inventing a new spirit out of nowhere isn't "subverting expectations" it's just manifesting a plot element out of nowhere that could not have been predicted save by blindfire guessing.

What I'm saying is that "subversion" is becoming to this thread as "trolling" was to Homestuck. Everything must be some secret eighth dimensional chess trolling by Hussie! :byodood:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

mr. stefan posted:

It's not exactly "blindfire guessing" when people think a character may be possessed when the big piece of evidence hinting that is introduced in a chapter all about a dude who is a medium and all about the rules of possession, especially since the thing that's making people think its the case is something that has never been shown with anyone else in the cast who uses a tool and was, in fact, explicitly called out by Doorman for being out of the ordinary.

It is blindfire guessing. There is no evidence, none, period, that a hitherto unknown spirit is possessing Max as a Medium. That it has never been confirmed, directly, that a tool wielding Spectral can be possessed by said tool inhabiting spirit means nothing. It is far less of an assumption and/or leap of logic to suggest that this is possible, and simply our first exposure to it, than to assume that Max is both a Medium and a Tool User outta nowhere.

That's really all there is to this.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Tollymain posted:

Just had a thought. If a spectral can surprise a spirit in their inner demesne like this, wouldn't that imply that the spirit is "active" like this all the time? Or at least while near or in a spectral?

If so, are they slowly dragged around by the spectrals daily movements :haw:?

I'm personally inclined to believe that Max isn't surprising Scrapdragon at all. The author comments are just a joke, in all likelihood.

Scrapdragon is just big on first impressions.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Coach Sport posted:

I never put together the implication that Spender is actually unable to take the sunglasses off without risking the shadow spirit taking over. I just thought he never took them off because he was a huge dork. He probably wears them in the shower and to bed, too. That must get pretty inconvenient.

Given the way other tools work, I dunno if he needs to actually wear them. He almost certainly has to at least keep them somewhere on his person though.

I could really go either way on this. 50/50 chance of Spender wearing them because he's a huge loving dork.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Poison Mushroom posted:

I thought it was pretty much explicitly stated somewhere that Scrapdragon is a piece of the Strongest Spirit ("I didn't end up with the sense of humor"), and implied that the LSI was another piece.

Far from explicitly stated. A much simpler way to read that exchange is that he's sarcastically saying that while he may have Max's body he doesn't have the sense of humor.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Roland Jones posted:

Yeah, unless there's a way for a spirit to possess someone without awakening their abilities as a Spectral, any possible second spirit would have had to possess him after he got into Mayview. It's not explicitly stated but the comic seems to be suggesting that Isaac's Spectral awakening was due to the storm god's possession, further supporting that. This raises something interesting, though; on the one hand, Scrapdragon is looking less and less like this supposed "schemer", unless it's a really good actor or it takes on a different attitude when in a form other than a giant snake-monster. Also, the Doorman accused it of having no powers beyond "riddles and word games", but our giant pal here clearly has quite a bit of power. Unless the Doorman's really dismissive of magnetism and being the size of a small skyscraper.

He doesn't have those powers outside Max's head so the statement is still strictly true.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

MikeJF posted:

Vanilla is delicious but vanilla and chocolate Swirl is basically just watered-down chocolate.

Agreed but I'm gonna have to motion for a sub clause to this bill in which the validity of vanilla with chocolate syrup is acknowledged

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Fried Chicken posted:

God max you suck at this.

And I don't think any of this indicates scrappy is unintelligent, how articulate would you be if someone barged in and cracked you on the nose with a bat?

There's also the issue of this: Does Scrapdragon have a vested interest in Max believing he's intelligent? Here, he seems to get his desired result without speaking a cogent word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edCqF_NtpOQ

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

MikeJF posted:

Maybe he's in the path of the train train. He is lying on a real set of tracks, after all, and is no longer in spirit time.

Also holy poo poo I just looked at Max's face in panel 2.

ENGAGE SASS MODE

APPLY MAXIMUM SASS SETTINGS

SASSING

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Mystic Mongol posted:

Man, perceived time in real life doesn't pass at the same rate as in real life.

That is rather the point of including the qualifier "perceived", yes :v:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Fried Chicken posted:

Edit: ^^^^^^ that's probably a better way to explain it.


If that were the case you'd drop dead when your brain stopped sending the signals to your heart because it was perceiving the time between beats as longer than it was.

Time perception is a sub cortical process. Y'all are thinking of time illusions which is where the conscious mind distorts the passing of time


Edit 2: yeah, the difference in time on the sun or in orbit is there, if minuscule. It's part of relativity

Today I have learned that neuroscientists are terrible at naming things.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

AnonSpore posted:

The coolness of that suplex was immediately neutered by the name she gave it.

If by neutered you mean magnified tenfold then yeah :smug:

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
Isabel: The only unironic badass in this comic? It's more likely than you may think!

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

DreamShipWrecked posted:

I've seen it as him playing the weak one because fighting fully would involve ~the darkness within~. Lucifer is shown as using most of his energy to keep the Darkness at bay, so if he went super saiyan then it might cause problems.

If he does have hidden reserves, I don't think he's gonna have a choice much longer. What's happening to him right now could get real lethal real fast.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

neogeo0823 posted:

Oh poo poo, I didn't even see Spender's shadow before. Yeah, that's definitely some rage fueled, ultra vengeful, powerful and dangerous shadow spirit we're about to meet.

Unfortunately Spender's pride could only put up with Forge's poo poo for so long and well

Now things are gonna get allll hosed up.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

WAMPA_STOMPA posted:

Haha, Spender acting like an anime villain here.

Is he being an anime villain or an anime antihero? I think he's more on the Vegeta side Goku/Vegeta/Frieza axis right now.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Prison Warden posted:

Goku / Vegeta /Freeza is my preferred DnD alignment system.

Max is very Chaotic Piccolo whereas Spender is Lawful Vegeta.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
If you're not hearing the SSJ3 power up track you're reading this comic wrong.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
I want Forge to possess Max simply so that Forges angst can collide with Maxs complete lack of giving a poo poo.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
The best part about Spender's fusion form is it is 100% anime badass Bleach outfit...except for the glasses. The fact that it plays to stereotype and adds a cherry on top to ruin/improve the whole look is just perfect.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Suaimhneas posted:

Nice job establishing that there's no danger and then staying in that form while you stand around chatting for several minutes, Spender you huge dork. I can't wait to hear what Lucifer has to say about that.

Also the shrink ray gag is great

I feel like the fusion is changing his personality somewhat. His speech pattern feels different.

Also not sure what to make of Agent Day's apparently redundant introduction

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

idonotlikepeas posted:

Yeah, that was pretty dumb, Spender. At least it was dumb for the right reasons this time.

http://www.paranatural.net/index.php?id=295

Note that the hole hasn't closed so we're not really out of the woods yet.

Literally or figuratively!

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

No offence, but how exactly is she going to solve that laundry list of mysteries without constant spirit possession?

Yeah I mean as an investigator she seems preeeetty bad at this given that the smoking gun was literally just right in front of her.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

neogeo0823 posted:

Yeah, that's a very good question. Max nearly got killed, what, 5 times so far tonight?

Probably mostly because if he doesn't come to the spectral bullshit, the spectral bullshit will come to him (see also: mirror frog).

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

The Lord of Hats posted:

Isaac's life must be really exhausting if he's going MAXIMUM ANIME at all times.

What Spender is concealing from Isaac is that Isaac was never human at all

He's a Shounen Elemental

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
Today we have solved the mystery of how to make Stephen the best bully gang member in just one page.

What a load off my mind.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Dolash posted:

Or find a key to a door outside the barrier, or ask someone who isn't a spectral to go outside the barrier and get a key to a door outside the barrier.

Actually, does the Consortium have any non-Spectral members? It probably should, if only for things like this where they need the help of someone who isn't sensitive to (and thus vulnerable to) the spirit world.

Anyway, like Zach says he has the benefit of the doubt and we might find Zarei's statement is pretty conditional. They're not cut off from communicating with the Consortium, since Spender could visit in his dreams and phones are still a thing. There seem to be all kinds of spirits and innovative powers so there's no saying they can't find some other way through eventually, via Doorman there was already one way through the barrier they didn't know about and there could be more.

How old is the Mayview barrier? Did they have the Ghost Train when it went up? Has it always been their only way in and out of town, and if so has it always worked with Zarei? If that's true it seems like an awfully important thing to have treated it so casually.

I'd also like to note that Spender lied to Zarei about his encounter with Forge, which honestly seems weird since Forge was just a big, bad wandering monster to Spender so what's the point of hiding that he found and destroyed him? At the very least it suggests he doesn't trust her very much.

Maybe they're an item with antagonistic tendencies and he's deflecting legitimate concern, maybe he doesn't like to be seen in a position of weakness, maybe he's a huge dork

Who knows!

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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Hypocrisy posted:

Uh...he's just a demanding parent.

Depending on the extent to which that is taken, that can constitute abuse yes.

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